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[Orboknown]

rockin thoughts on ran please?
And kary too

 

[Death Bear]

clear as mud.

Death Bear said: ↑

ISO'd Bardull:​

​

Will lynch: Nabe;PJB;​

Not likely: Kata(iffy interactions with Bardull; Soupa; Ran(Bardull spent entirely too much time here for me to read it as scum at this point)​

Nope: Rockin;​

So I take it from reading Bardull, you wanted to pursue Nabe/PJB
felt better about Kata/Soup/Ran
and saw no particular connections to Rockin.

am I right?

Now, here's my question. Why the **** did you mention that Rockin was null in this respect? Why is it noteable that Rockin was null?

Ever feel like someone is null for a reason ?

Like Hando in ME mafia , he was actively inactive. So at first i kinda thought: Well maybe...

I guess I expected to see Rockin all up in it and instead he was immemorial / forgettable, and got over that initial blip of: well what if...

Like, think of it like : I saw the other people's , then went to find rockin's and was like: ... i can't think of / see anything worth pursuing on.

I think i mentioned before how i wasn't lynching rockin because of him being so forgettable to me that i couldn't put him together with my other picks.

Although i have been reading your recent stuff on him Xonar, and while i'm interested , i'll need to do a re-read of circus most def before i can comment on Xone

 

[ranmaru]

Orbo, I am on my phone. Expect a post later, but quick question while I get ready for work. Why did you fos me? I don't see a reason.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

More votes on Rockin please

 

[Death Bear]

You're kidding me, right? You think Kata is scum regardless of what PJB flips... but Xonar/Rockin are fine they just need to post more.

Since you're here, did you ever answer my #1160?

I didn't say they were fine, just that they needed to post more, hint this is why I said viig shoot Rockin. Vig will shoot the inactves.

 

[Death Bear]

Scratch that I can dig a Rockin lynch.

Still want PJB far far more.

 

[Rockin]

rockin thoughts on ran please?
And kary too

I'm seeing Ran going all over the place, and while he's asking questions, I feel it's slightly forced. Like he's trying to please everyone while at the same time nudging people of easy lynches. I remember him attacking PBJ...and now he's going for a soup/orbo lynch and Deathbear (something I find random as hell as I don't think he even had a problem with him previously). I'm giving him a town lean, as I'm not fully confident on this. I don't want to see him lynched though.

Kary is....something. I don't see him scummy, but all I'm hearing from him is either people trying to convince others I'm scummy (in some weird way) or just wanting nabe to claim. I havn't really seen him scum hunt anywhere else. For all I know, he's probably tunnel visoning me. LOL

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Orbo you didn't actually answer my questions at all.

Ok, so you doing an ISO on me changed your read significantly. If you were reading me as town, why'd you feel the need to ISO me?

Have you ISO'd Nabe? If doing an ISO can change your read so drastically, don't you think it'd be worth it to look at Nabe, since I'm "sitting on him all day"? Don't you think that'd help your read on me, or possibly show you why Nabe is a better lynch than me? Is it really not worth looking at?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

This is soup exiting the game

Alright, I'm gonna be honest here. I don't have motivation for this game. I have **** to deal with and I'm mafia'd out. I'm going to let a fresher slot take the helm or I'm going to end up like Gheb. I don't know if it was noticable or not, and I don't care how you take this. That case on PJB has got to be one of the biggest pieces of **** I've ever made in a long time. I didn't even feel like it meant anything and I was just struggling to solidfy a stance that I can't particularily put effort into. This isn't about ducking out because I'm caught or you all got me. It's just that I find myself between 'don't care' and 'care because I don't want to slow down the game.'

I think Nabe is town. I think Ranmaru is off and I don't like him. I think he's far too willing to jump on wagons. I do not like Rockin. I do not like Kary's medial way of approaching this game with constant side comments, however I feel that he's following TownMeta. I do not like PJB. I like Death Bear, perhaps more so the Rake side. Kat is worrisome, but not enough to want to lynch. If he's still alive by lylo, lynch him. I wish Circus was here.

Is that all is left? That's surprising. Later.

This is soup calling his case on me "garbage". Please read the game, Death Bear, before deciding to just discount my points as untrue. The words are literally exactly where I said they were, and you still managed to not go look at them before deciding I was a liar.

If you're gonna try to read me, then ****ing read me. What you're doing is not reading me. What you're doing is thinking to yourself "PJB is scum, lemme go find some stuff he said or did that supports it".

 

[Orboknown]

Orbo, I am on my phone. Expect a post later, but quick question while I get ready for work. Why did you fos me? I don't see a reason.

You called ryu a really strong townread, then decided 28 minutes later he was your second strongest scumread. hard to go such a far way down with 9 players alive.

Orbo you didn't actually answer my questions at all.

Ok, so you doing an ISO on me changed your read significantly. If you were reading me as town, why'd you feel the need to ISO me?

Have you ISO'd Nabe? If doing an ISO can change your read so drastically, don't you think it'd be worth it to look at Nabe, since I'm "sitting on him all day"? Don't you think that'd help your read on me, or possibly show you why Nabe is a better lynch than me? Is it really not worth looking at?

That townread was really really fragile, as in when i read you first i was extremely uncertain on that read. i think i mentioned this in my reads post. Nabe flipping would help my read on you, but you flipping would also help my nabe read without him having to claim. I've been doing a lot of schoolwork the past two days, so I'll iso nabe tomorrow before work.

 

[ranmaru]

I think Kary/Kat are most likely to be playing as scum with Bardull and PJB.

Ruy out.

Let me say this again. I didn't say Ruy was my strongest town read. Please understand. I was addressing Ruy, telling him Kary and Kat were my two strongest reads.

As in "Hey Orbo, this and this are my reads." instead of "Orbo, Ruy, and Kary are my reads"

Notice how there are two commas in the second one? That's showing that I'm listing my reads. The first is showing that I'm pausing to address the person I wrote before the comma, so therefore, I was only intending on listing two reads, which would need no additional commas for a list.

 

[Orboknown]

My bad, misunderstood that. Looked like you were including him in those townreads.

 

[ranmaru]

Can vig shoot Rockin tonight Please?

Why do you want Rockin vigged?

And what about D2 Kat? I don't see anything wrong. Nor Kary. I can tell Kary is doing his own thing, and I respect that.

Also, this is what changed my PJB read:

I think soup's exit to the game is highly indicative of him being scum with Nabe. It's literally 100% identical to YOUR toonami game, where he was scum with nabe. Nabe made a bad claim, and soup defended to the death for reason's nobody could understand. The difference here is that instead of losing his mind and blowing up in endgame, he replaced out.

The fact that he replaced out isn't what makes me think he's scum either. There's plenty of legitimate reasons he could've replaced out, and that's fine, I won't condemn him for it, but look at his play beforehand. He literally made a big *** case on me, then called it garbage and left. He never gave an explanation for why nabe was town. There was literally a dogpile on me at that point in the game, and they both jumped on it as opportunistically as humanly possible.

You assert that there's nothing I've done this game without someone else doing it first. Not only is that completely false, but the fact that you can look at Nabe's play and not see him doing exactly what you accuse me of is baffling. I'm actually stunned that people think Nabe's votes are less opportunistic than mine.

I feel a genuine vibe from this post. He's not just planting his feet on Nabe, he's also talking about Soup and how he feels about him. I even liked this next quote:

I want to hear from Orbo about how I went from town side of null to scum based on an iso.Orbo, talk to me. How can a read possibly change that much? If it, indeed, can change that much, then why'd you iso me? Because I'm a hot topic? Did you iso Nabe? Do you seriously think he's clean?!

I feel this (the underlined) is a very good point and I don't feel it would be a question coming from scum. I feel this line of questioning legit.

 

[ranmaru]

Hey Orbo. How come you never commented on my #1241?

 

[Orboknown]

I didn't know you wanted my opinion on it, and didn't want to ruin death bear's responses by getting at it first. Want me to go over it now?

 

[ranmaru]

Well yeah. The first two paragraphs are about your slot. Why worry about Death Bear responding when there is also a portion for you?

 

[ranmaru]

PJB, I also want you to comment on my #1241. (After Orbo does) I also want you to tell me how your read on Orbo has progressed.

 

[Orboknown]

Now that PJB mentions it, I agree that Soup was being opportunistic with his hop on PJB. He was being opportunistic by putting his 'concerns' of me on hold, so he could be able to push PJB. That was not a genuine change of reads. That was a calculative change of reads. Then I seemed to have leaned town after a 're-read'. Soup then stating that his push on PJB was crap is a bit concerning. Guys, just because he replaced out and may have done to because of personal reasons, does not invalidate him saying that as odd. If he was having trouble, why would he even COMMENT on his push when replacing out? I still think it's a backtrack.

I also don't like Orbo's initial read on PJB and switch. I feel Orbo is trying to mudsling PJB just so he could get on the wagon. For example, he was critisizing PJB for stating that he was against a plan due to it 'breaking the game', yet I don't really see any scum intent from that post of PJB. It just seems he is trying to paint PJB in a nasty light however he can, with trivial things. Orbo initially had a wishy washy 'town side of null' read on PJB, but no where in his PJB wall did he mention any of the townnull tells/quotes. This seems like he was entirely focused on pushing PJB as his pick without thinking about the initial read he got. Also, it's funny he points out PJB for being reserved when his own slot was very reserved with voting. He initially said he was sorta townie for 'putting his thoughts out there', but never really shows which post he thought of when saying this.

First post I can't comment or speculate on soup's reasoning, as I'm not him.
Define how I'm mudslinging him? If i find him scummy, I find him scummy. As I said earlier, that was a very fragile town read. it didn't take much for me to scumread him. That iso was to settle my read one way or the other. I iso'd him, then went and pulled the quotes necessary for the case.

 

[ranmaru]

Can you comment on the fact that you never really showed any 'town' like quote from PJB? I mean, what exact thoughts did you think was townie from him? That's why I don't like your slot Orbo. It seems like you didn't really care to show the entire scope of your read on PJB. Just the side that would make others lynch him.

The mudslinging, is like when you quoted PJB saying he didn't like the plan due to it possibly breaking the game. Now tell me, what is the scum intent of that? What was the purpose of putting that in your wall?

 

[ranmaru]

Also tell me why you would wait for Death bear to respond to my #1241 first? (I mean you say you didn't want to ruin his responses, but how would you commenting on yourself ruin his responses? That's odd)

 

[Orboknown]

His thought process seemed similar to mine at points, but it was on small things.nabe claiming for one, which is really a null tell by now since most of town as asked for it.
Of course I'm gonna show the things that make me wanna lynch him if I'm trying to get him lynched ran. that's what the case is for. i wasn't gonna quote all 50 or so of his posts and show my comments on every single one of them.
The scum intent of not breaking the game(thought kuz's plan wouldn't have broken the game, just put out a huge town advantage) is discouraging something that would legitimately give town a huge advantage. It's to show a small piece that fit in with others imo to point how how little PJb has done for town.

 

[Orboknown]

ninja, didn't realize it had stuff at me since i saw the first paragraph talking about soup. I obviously can't comment on what he did because I don't know his thought process.

 

[ranmaru]

Orbo, how have your reads on Kat and Nabe progressed? (Are they town or scum to you?)

 

[Orboknown]

Kat's D1 was off to me, but I can't quite place why. Hasn't been ehre enough on D2 for me to rectify the situation.
Nabe seems alright, but I know he has a solid scumgame and I want him to claim so he's locked into it.

 

[ranmaru]

His thought process seemed similar to mine at points, but it was on small things.

Where? Can you quote these? (Or at least talk about it at the top of your head, even though I'd prefer you go back and quote it)

The scum intent of not breaking the game(thought kuz's plan wouldn't have broken the game, just put out a huge town advantage) is discouraging something that would legitimately give town a huge advantage. It's to show a small piece that fit in with others imo to point how how little PJb has done for town.

It's possible scum may hide behind not wanting to break the game, yet who says a townie wouldn't say this either? I mean how fun would it be to just break the game easy pees E. This is a null point and feel you are trying to stretch it.

 

[ranmaru]

Also, do you think Kat was Bussing Bardull D1 then?

 

[Orboknown]

I'd ahve to read that in particular to say ran, and I'm running out the door now. I'll get to it tomorrow K/

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Right now, yes. Other people may depend on your flip.

Vote: PJB

I think soup's exit to the game is highly indicative of him being scum with Nabe. It's literally 100% identical to YOUR toonami game, where he was scum with nabe. Nabe made a bad claim, and soup defended to the death for reason's nobody could understand. The difference here is that instead of losing his mind and blowing up in endgame, he replaced out.

Yeah no. You don't actually think this.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Forgot Nabe said he translates hentai, lolololol.

Fix your avatar (to fill up the avatar box) by reuploading the image you used.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I feel this (the underlined) is a very good point and I don't feel it would be a question coming from scum. I feel this line of questioning legit.

Could you elaborate?

I also don't like Orbo's initial read on PJB and switch. I feel Orbo is trying to mudsling PJB just so he could get on the wagon. For example, he was critisizing PJB for stating that he was against a plan due to it 'breaking the game', yet I don't really see any scum intent from that post of PJB. It just seems he is trying to paint PJB in a nasty light however he can, with trivial things. Orbo initially had a wishy washy 'town side of null' read on PJB, but no where in his PJB wall did he mention any of the townnull tells/quotes. This seems like he was entirely focused on pushing PJB as his pick without thinking about the initial read he got. Also, it's funny he points out PJB for being reserved when his own slot was very reserved with voting. He initially said he was sorta townie for 'putting his thoughts out there', but never really shows which post he thought of when saying this.

Could you quote the relevant posts here? I'm trying to get an understanding specifically of the second sentence, but I'd love to see the walkthrough in full PbP.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Kat's D1 was off to me, but I can't quite place why. Hasn't been ehre enough on D2 for me to rectify the situation.
Nabe seems alright, but I know he has a solid scumgame and I want him to claim so he's locked into it.

By reputation?

 

[Death Bear]

Fix your avatar (to fill up the avatar box) by reuploading the image you used.

Fixed?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Vote: PJB



Yeah no. You don't actually think this.

Oh but I do.

I also think Orbo's willingness to poo poo me for sitting on you all day, when he obviously hasn't even looked at WHY I'm sitting on you, is telling as well.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Fixed?

>Single-pixel line of white along the bottom of the image

THIS GUY

 

[Kataefi]

I should explain myself as to why I've gone quiet. It's a combination of everything IRL happening at once and also Soup replacing out. I've never come across the situation

Perhaps I'm naive in refusing to think a scummie would replace out under pressure at a time when I wanted to question my biggest scumspect...

Anyway I dislike the way he played D1. He never over-extended - in the early game he believed Bardull's catchup post to be something along the lines of bad (somewhere around page 4/5), and did Bardull change? No... We see soup continue to dilly-dally over wagons but show concern over Bardull during my interactions with him. He never joins this wonderful D1 wagon despite looking like he had a reason to... And who does he propose 24 hours before deadline? Circus and myself, 2 players he showed a clear hesitancy to lynch... Why place a spotlight on these names specifically?

This is something that I've been thinking about for a long time and it's causing me a headache so bear with me.

What happened in Toonami?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I also think Orbo's willingness to poo poo me for sitting on you all day, when he obviously hasn't even looked at WHY I'm sitting on you, is telling as well.

Yeah no. You don't actually think this.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

You can just keep sitting there being snarky all you want.

You still need to claim btw, and the fact that you still haven't done so should be a red flag to everyone that you're just stalling to claim as late as possible in the day so you can avoid a counterclaim.

 

[ranmaru]

Nabe #1310

Yes. PJB mentions that Orbo seems to be focusing on PJB for being a hot topic of discussion. Orbo doesn’t really look elsewhere. He doesn’t really have a solid scumread aside from PJB. His ‘concerning’ reads are also wishy washy. I think PJB noticing that Orbo seemed to be ISO’ing PJB for being a hot topic, townie. I agree that Orbo choosing to ISO PJB while being null-town, is a bit opportunistic. Orbo doesn’t really give a reason for deciding to go in that direction.

PostbyPost Breakdown for Nabe:

"Let's not use this protown plan kuzi came up with, becausen i don't like exploiting the system in town's favor". Is this self explanatory enough?

This is one of the points I feel is Orbo mudslinging. He states this as if it's a scum tell for someone to disagree with a plan which may break the game. It's possible scum can hide behind such a thing but it is overall a null tell that I feel he is just trying to use to pain PJB as scum.

Antagonizing someone saying they were iso'ing a dead player for connections is pretty yuck.

This is another point I felt was a quip to paint PJB in a bad light, rather than showing scum intent that was a concern to him. I don't see the scum intent or hidden agenda to saying that, so I don't know why Orbo mentions this in his wall post, which is why I feel he put it in to pad his wall to support his vote on Orbo. What PJB said there seems to me more like a personal quip, rather than a alignment tell. I don't see him using it to paint Soup in a bad light, nor did he have a Soup Scum read to really use it against him. So I don't see the relevance but to say "I don't like this, so it goes in the wall of EWW NO PJB"

All in all, the rest of his points summed up: Orbo mentions that PJB was fence-sitty all game, was sitting on his scumpicks all day phase, and that he was contradicting himself.

I can't recall if anyone called out PJB for fence-sitting, but I think the last two points were recycled. I don't really see anything new or from a fresh perspective, and see it as more of scum focusing on who he feels the town would accept as a lynch. Consider that I also find it concerning that Orbo calls PJB null-town but doesn't really give quotes or references for this, and doesn't really have a good reason for deciding to re-read PJB and finally achieve that solid scum-read. The only motive I can think of is because PJB was a hot topic, it would be easy to switch to PJB.

 

[ranmaru]

Basically, I find it to be a genuine find, to be able to 'realize' something scummy instead of try to come up with fake reasons to implicate someone as scum. That's why I like PJB's post. Consider I don't know why Soup jumped to the opportunity of pushing PJB with me, I could only think it's because Soup had an inconsistency with his read on PJB. He had PJB as town-like and then mentioned me and him as concerning to him, yet he never really gave reasoning to PJB. I felt his hop may have been to cover for the fact he hasn't really done as much to show his thoughts on PJB as he did for me.

 

[ranmaru]

What happened in Toonami?

I'll answer this for you. From my perspective in replacing in, Soup was easily calling me town so he could 'roll' on Gheb. I ask him questions, and he just tries to wave them off by saying "Ran I think your catchup is town". Next day, Gheb flips town, and he has me as his scumread for a catch-up that was lacking, and for not clarifying my reads enough. I thought his reasons were weak, and thought it was opportunistic of him to ignore my catch-up until the next day. He also white knighted people alot. Push came to shove, and he got executed by scum. He was indy, yet still comes off as suspicious as indy or mafia. (Another source: Rajam's Hunter x Hunter Mafia; No lynch)