ENTER THE HARDBODY

[Kataefi]

Well i'm not really name calling... i have been hating on them for the longest time.

Lessavalook at your post. Why didn't you place a vote in the post you referenced?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

because i dont wanna vote yet

 

[Kataefi]

KK I felt like I was on a goose chase there. 348 --> 267 I do see your progression now. Can you surmise how you feel about Kuz in a few simple lines plz because the wall hurt my eyes and I'm not sure if I completely got the point of what you're trying to say about him.

Same with Ran plz.

I'm hesitant only because he had a similar approach in Tekken, then disappeared. I hydra'd with him in Gigabots and his activity fluctuated there too. I think his "silence" that you refer to doesn't necessarily indicate him as being scum, because I've seen it happen twice now.

FWIW I liked his plan to enhance the hider and thought it was actually quite good to use at least on N1, where the hider has better odds. I liked that he considered possibilities and opened it up to discussion without strictly imposing it on anyone. The thing that bothers me is disappearing during unfinished business...

Really I'm null at this point. I'm side-eyeing Bardull first, how about we screw kuz' plan and have a vig deal with kuz? Join meh!

Bardull has done **** all. Comes in and votes the safest wagon, who happens to be voting him. Suspects all the players on the wagon as well (wouldn't alarm bells be ringing here knowing that 2 players he finds himself to be questioning have started a wagon that he's joined?)... and then proceeds to do **** all after that, with empty promises. That's how I view his slot atm. I find it wasteful and in need of killing! Sorry about the profanities but yes it has been a long day!

 

[Kataefi]

because i dont wanna vote yet

you can tell uncle kat anything you know...

What's holding you back?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

the fact that i dont have kuz here to respond is one the biggest factors and as far as my reasoning goes the tl;dr is that i feel he's trying assert himself in a position of power, casually buddying J/Swords in the process to make sure everything is in check and i dont like how he just dropped off the face of the earth

as said in my wall if you read it however i feel this is rather an assumption than anything, and would prefer to hear from him

i really liked bardull and how he responded to me, but i suppose that talk about inactivity could apply here too

 

[Kataefi]

In the meantime I'm gonna respond to posts directed at me. It is a chore urgh

I'm just going to say that Nabe is probably the last player on this list for whom you should be making allowances like this. Standard "scum wouldn't do this" logic doesn't apply to Nabe. You have to tailor your observations specifically to him. Have you not played with Nabe before? Seeing you give him this kind of leeway for literally no reason ("...this is based entirely on a whim.") is probably the most unsettling thing I've seen from you so far.

Settle yourself then mister A lot of reads are on a whim because I haven't found a way to look up a player's post history and so prepare anything decent (lol). It's more time-consuming now, especially when there's stuff to respond to! Get ready to call me John because I can see myself moaning about this a lot. [cue: very sad face]

Anyway the bolded is wrong. I'm going to assume you disagree with my reasoning, which is why you literally can't see it Can you state anything specific you dislike? Also you come across like you know Nabe well - how are you going to attempt to read him? (and what is your read?)

For the town points? Obviously? Scum only need one member to stay alive in order to win. If Kuz can make himself that player just by being the first person to start talking about Night action plans (which requires no real scum hunting, the hardest thing for a scummy to fake), then why wouldn't he? Dig a little deeper.

Town points wear thin though. I'm not liking his disappearance. I did like what he proposed - refer to what I said to Soup above.

Kataefi: Hello. What is your read on Kuz?

DARLING! Back then I was leaning on the townie side. Now it's bordering on null, because where is he? He has unfinished business and disappears for the longest time... Again, see my responses above for more detail

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

might i ask what tips you off about PJB too? i actually solidified my town-stance on him in that same post too

 

[Kataefi]

Yeah it's because he's just a bit flat. I remember him saying he was "begrudgingly" fine with the plan. From his POV, if it yields results, it yields results... why would he be begrudging here? Additionally, I called him out for pussyfooting around and then suddenly BAM! he pursues you relentlessly... it looks a little scripted! And then he disappears, like he's done what he needed to and everything is fine and dandy.

 

[Kataefi]

Did you take note btw that there were 3 guests viewing?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

kind of but it doesn't bother me that much multitasking something else too

 

[BarDulL]

Ok, I finally am at a computer.

Let the hardbodying commence.

 

[Kataefi]

Urgh now on to hilt

What?! This is a terrible reason, rereading it trying to make sense out of the point. Do you think he would have... planned on being inactive if he was scum? "I probably shouldn't say that, I'm going to be inactive and might not be able to defend myself"? Really? This is likely the worst point I've heard come out of your mouth all game. Were you just desperate for a reason to give an opinion one way or another on him? Had to give a town or scum lean so you scrambled together a shabby town read? You know what else is a **** reason?

I'm going to assume you disagree with my reasoning, which is why it's branded "terrible" / the "worst point" / "scrambled together"... Very newspaper material

Anyway to the bolded: yes scum are capable of going inactive. That's missing my point tho... I liked Nabe a little more because he was coming across like a bouncy mole. Popping in randomly, no care in the world etc etc. This + inactivity gave me the initial impression he's working solo and doesn't care about the attention he receives. Very much a first impression, if anything. I youtubed bouncy mole and this came up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOGGE04Ud20

words cannot describe

For your other q's - I wasn't desperate (was I even in a position to be desperate?), neither did I have to scramble anything. I wouldn't have answered yes to any of those questions.

I don't think everyone's been completely happy with the plan. I can only think of one person stating that he's fully okay with going with it, everyone else has shown reasonable amounts of doubt. And let's say it was a good plan that people like, like you seem to think, wouldn't that be a good reason for scum to bring it up first? It's something that, if it backfired and people didn't like it, wouldn't necessarily draw ridiculous attention to the person bringing it up. It only would have been a suggestion. But no, your statement is full of nothing but wifom and feels as thrown together as your previous point. Comparing the two to your below opinion is convincing of how artificial the first two are.

I accept some of this but isn't it only you and rockin who have straight-up said no so far? Also, 90% of this game is wifom. I can't pussyfoot around and be like "oh, wifom" all day. Decisions have to be made eventually, even for simplicity's sake. I did consider that Kuz could be scum bringing it up, but then it's not a great tradeoff - enhancing the hider VS townie points that rub off. I mean look at the negative attention he's getting now...

Show me how they have similarities.

Well you initially said this:

Do you think he would have... planned on being inactive if he was scum? "I probably shouldn't say that, I'm going to be inactive and might not be able to defend myself"? Really? This is likely the worst point I've heard come out of your mouth all game.

And then this regarding J's v/la:

Speaking of benefit of the doubt... my J opinion. I'm torn between seeing if he's actually going to give content today onward or not, and calling bull**** on the fact that it was a four day, spontaneous V/LA, with another day added on afterwards.

In my head I'm thinking: if you think J's V/LA is bull****, he must be lying about it... The same question you posed to me could be posed right back to you - do you think he would have planned on being inactive if he was scum? Can you see where I got my impression from before you clarified yourself a little?

I hope this clarifies a few things.

 

[Kataefi]

omg bardull!

AND you're all caught up

I'm assuming you have something ready right now?

 

[Kataefi]

Kata, what's your read on Hilt?

I'm confused by him. I don't understand why he's penalising certain reads I've stated when his own reads are comparative. E.g. the Bardull read is just as first-impression based as my read on you was, and more vague! ("not artifical", "genuine" etc.) I'd also like him to respond to my #361 if possible.

Nabus can you talk to me about Ran? He has a way with coming across townie in his replies to me! I'm been sucked in now that he's posting more. How did you view Ran's early play?

 

[BarDulL]

I'm in the midst of writing a post. I couldn't do it earlier because, as you can imagine, quoting and making big posts on a phone is hell mode difficulty.

 

[Kataefi]

oh right... okay well i understand. Can you drop a list of reads right now and then, if you have anything else planned, finish up a bigger post and explain them?

 

[BarDulL]

Right now, I like Hilt, Rockin, and Kuzi. I dislike Kataefi, Ran, PJB, and some of Sword. Circus, Nabe, and J need to step their game up a notch. Admittedly, I'm terrible at reading Soup; I have consistently read him wrong the last few games I've been in with him. There are a few reasons why that don't necessarily need to be brought up, but if further deliberation is necessary, then I have no qualms shedding more light on the matter. Kary is hard to place.

 

[Kataefi]

I suspected you'd dislike me and Ran. Funny that there's brewing momentum against both of us.

Maybe you hone in on people that publicly call you out?

bardull -> kuz -> ranmaru

I'm going now but I'll respond to whatever points you throw at me later if I can.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Sorry for the gross levels of inactivity from me, guys. I feel like I've been avoiding this thread for the past 2 days, but I'm ready to get to it.

First of all
unvote

I'm happy with the way soup has responded to me thus far, and I'm willing to write off the earlier responses that I questioned as a misunderstanding for now.

Now on to the nitty gritty. I'll be popping back here with something as soon as I piece it together, and get it neat and tidy looking. No more half assing for me.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

PJB: What's your opinion on J and Kuz? Kat?

Sorry for not getting to this earlier, I'm super duper lazy lately.

J I don't have much of an opinion on, he's been pretty inactive, moreso than me I believe. Wouldn't feel right putting him anywhere other than null.

Kuz I'm ok with. I have zero meta on him, so all I see is that he's around, he's questioning people, following up, facilitating discussion and actually forming his reads. If it's all an act, then he's very good at it. Town

Kat I'm less ok with. While I do see him active in the thread, I don't really see where his choices in who to pressure are coming from. Actually, that's a lie, I do see a pattern in who he pressures. It's easy targets. Looking at this playerlist, I don't think many people would disagree with the weaker players being myself, bardull, ran, and soup. Lo and behold, who has he pressured? Now soup and ran have both gotten a lot better since the days Kat was more active in mafia, and thus, he has dropped them because they aren't ****ing around, and they're not being easy targets. So that leaves Bardull and I. Two inactives in a sea of inactivity. On the weaker end of the playerlist.

I just don't see a difference between my inactivity and, say, Nabe or J's inactivity. Yet Kat wants to be all up in my ass. And for what? My choice of the word "begrudgingly"? For realz?

Scum lean.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

oh I forgot

vote: Kat

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Also absolutely no offence, but how can you be most suspicious of me when the criteria you were looking for in your scumhunt was someone that plays extremely safe (which at the time, MANY other players were safer...), relatively inactive (a la the Bardull vote, which fits the bill for MANY other players more inactive than me...), and people that chimed in on topics... which again isn't exclusive to me lol... considering Swords brought you to light on some of the good things in my posts...?? This isn't so much a question as it is just a confusion as to why I'm exclusively your most suspicious pick...

I'll answer your bigger post tonight!

Yes, Swords brought me to light on some of your posts, but it didn't erase all of what I had originally felt. Your Nabe and Kuz stances still bother me to no end. Not you thinking that they're town, but how you gave off the impression of someone who felt rushed (while obviously not the case), and quickly threw together a weak reasoning for both. The biggest thing Swords' posts did for me was help me to make sure that I don't focus on you too much, and in effect, not pay attention to the others as much as I need to. But I don't plan to ignore how suspicious I find you and how cautious I am about your play.

I don't remember calling you "relatively inactive". Care to refresh my memory?

Regarding the J/Nabe comparison... there's a large difference between trying to cover up a previous disappearance with a V/LA and planning on being inactive during a portion or the entirety of the game.

In my head I'm thinking: if you think J's V/LA is bull****, he must be lying about it... The same question you posed to me could be posed right back to you - do you think he would have planned on being inactive if he was scum?

No I don't think he would or wouldn't plan on being inactive if he was scum. Both are ridiculous mindsets and I'm having a lot of trouble believing that you actually feel that way about Nabe, or any player for that matter. Why do you think that question "could be posed" back to me? Did I give off any impression that I felt that way?

Can you see where I got my impression from before you clarified yourself a little?

Clarify myself a little?? Hardly. You misquoted what I said and I had to correct you.

Anyways, I think that takes care of the Kat responses for now. I'd like to see J gone the most, my 365 summarizes my stance if necessary.

Vote: J

 

[Kataefi]

Yewwwwwwwwww *******

So much drama brewing!

Both players pop up at close of play toDay the VERY moment they were called out. Hilt will join, Kary might hop on board for the sake of a lynch. I see exactly where this could go. And here I am trying to get my wagons burning as a majority has slowed down.

I need to rally up the troops somehow. Ran/Soup/maybe swords and nabe?... Kuz/J aren't here... boo to this... some of you guys better identify me as Town and defend me. I'd rather get one of my lynches than a floplynch any day based on the history of my meta.

One thing we can all take on board is that players get butthurt when called out.

And i'm butthurt knowing there are far better lynches out there, as you can tell...

Kuz I'm ok with. I have zero meta on him, so all I see is that he's around, he's questioning people, following up, facilitating discussion and actually forming his reads. If it's all an act, then he's very good at it. Town

Why am I not doing any of this?

Also you have 0 meta on me, who are you to tell me who the easy targets are? Since when has Bardull/Soup/Ran/yourself been easy targets? Ran especially personifies Town, attacking him is not "easy". This is just an appeal to swords who said the same thing.

why bring this up now when I've been going after these people for time now? even at moments where you've posted?

omg i actually have to go bed! so...goodnight? i'll respond to stuff in the morning!

sorry hilt i've seen you ninja me i'll get to you in the morning!

 

[DtJ Hilt]

I'm ridiculously tired right now, got up for work at 3 AM EST and haven't slept since. Probably going to sleep soon. Will either be on after that or after work tomorrow.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

sorry hilt i've seen you ninja me i'll get to you in the morning!

It's a date.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

because I haven't been concerned with you until now, and I'm seeing a consistent pattern. You've been pushing easy lynches, not hard ones.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

I've so haven't been here. Sorry, test and all. Reading up until ADHD kicks in.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

At the bolded, if you can list these in an orderly, that helps me a lot. Also as a sidenote: i'm struggling to find a way to ISO people (this is most challenging) and have become slightly addicted to Sim City... but where there's a will, there's a way

• PJB and Ran pushes were/are not only easy pushes but pushes which I disagreed with. Note the past tense that I use. I'm not just saying that I don't like it now in the present, but even back then when you first made the post I didn't like the push.

• This is kind of the same point above, but I also felt that you were being unfair to Ran. It seemed to me that your intention was to simply lynch him rather than actually try to read him. What made me think this was when you accused Ran of lying about his internet connection, which seemed like an impossible point for Ran to defend against. This point and the point above are what still hold for me.

• I don't really think this about you anymore, but a couple of the things you say in post read a bit forced (mainly that line about PJB in your 256). However this is nitpicking, because as a whole I don't think the tonality of your posts has really been that off.

• One last point that I also dropped upon rereading you: Some of your points felt generic, like how you criticized PJB and I for "not being conductive to finding scum," as if that's some de facto thing townie's always do every minute of every Day. However upon my reread I learned that you weren't actually reading me as scum for it, and the only person you were reading scum for it was PJB, which from an objective PoV seems fair to me given how he approached the Soup vs. Swords debate.

Not reeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaally a condensed summary, I know, but I just like making myself as clear as possible.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Oh still rereading but would like to add that one of the things I still don't like about Kat is how he arrived at town reads on Kuzi and Nabe. Even if Nabe is a weak town lean for him, the reasoning for both of them were still bad and Kat should be smarter than this. Kuzi making a plan that's counter-productive towards scum is something that scum could EASILY do for town points and Kat should not be basing a town read solely on this. Wrt Nabe he was just reading into a one-line post way too hard imo.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

votecount 1.09
kuz (2) - circus ranmaru
circus (1) - nabe
rockin (1) - kary
ranmaru (3) - j bardull kuz
kary (1) - rockin
kataefi (1) - pjb
bardull (1) - kataefi
j (1) - hilt
not voting (2) - soup sworddancer.

voting log
soup -> j -> none
pjb -> soup -> none -> kataefi
rockin -> sworddancer. -> kary
j -> circus -> ranmaru
ranmaru -> j -> rockin -> sworddancer. -> kuz
circus -> kuz
sworddancer. -> j -> none -> ranmaru -> none
nabe -> circus
kuz -> j -> soup -> ranmaru
kataefi -> kuz -> sworddancer. -> ranmaru -> bardull
hilt -> bardull -> kataefi -> j
kary -> hilt -> rockin
bardull -> kuz -> ranmaru

d1 ends 3/15 11:59:59 pm est

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Hmmmmmm . . . . .

Hmmmm . . .

HMMMMMMMMMMM . . . . . . .

Thoughts:

-Kat most responsive person in thread. Good. I realize, and appreciate, that the more active you are, the more likely you are to do "scummy" things. At the risk of sounding vague, my disagreements with his Kuz and Nabe read may be resulting from him just thinking about it a bit too far ahead. Still think that he's reading too hard into Nabe.
-Not convinced Nabe is trying to scumhunt. Asking Kat for his read on Hilt is a decent question given the circumstances of it being "Kat vs. Hilt," but easy. The question asking for my opinion on inactives is random and also easy. Points against Ran are the closest he comes to "scum hunting" but I just think the point in flat out wrong.
-Conflicted on Hilt. I agree with Kat that the wording in a lot of his posts are vague, but I find his tunnel on Kat townie. Out of everyone against Kat, Hilt seems the most genuine. Overall going to call Kat vs. Hilt TvT.
-With Kat leaning town to me now, I actually found PJB's 420 a bit opportunistic. Wouldn't like him dead though, still have the townie impressions he gave me earlier plus I wouldn't put it past a newbie town to jump onto something like this either.
-I found Rockin's 374 very worrisome. It was just terribly non relevant input from him when there were so many other things to comment on. His only saving grace is that I would imagine scum would be painfully aware of how bad those types of post look.
-Don't care toooooooo much for Circus playstyle so far. This might be a case of pot calling the kettle black with my inactivity, but while he went over a lot in his post, he allowed himself a lot of time to make it look nice, and I'm not convinced that catching scum is actually at his core interest from it.
-I agree with Kat's points against BarDull, and to add to this I already don't like his reads nor did I like his opening post. Am aware that he's posting from phone, but still think that he, like Circus, is allowing himself too much time to get everything together.

Would lynch, in order:

BarDull > Circus > Nabe > Kuzi/J

Hardbody? Hardbody.

Vote: BarDull

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

I see Hilt viewing right now, but he may be asleep. Hilt, if you're not, could you give me your opinion on Rockin?

Ran, same thing from you.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

PJB, I don't get your sudden inclination that every easy lynch or pushing 'easy lynches' is a bad thing. I'm looking at your post on Kat and I really can't deal with your logic here. What justifies an easy lynch as being the lynch scum wants? Certainly, scum doesn't want to put nearly any effort into the game but what does it mean for the person getting pressured? Have you considered these thoughts? Are you going to just say that all easy lynches are scum-influenced and that they're just poor defenseless townies? I don't see you actually saying that, but I don't get the vibe that you dislike them or anything. What's your actual read on the players you mentioned? Do they hold relevance to Kat in any way?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Right now, I like Hilt, Rockin, and Kuzi. I dislike Kataefi, Ran, PJB, and some of Sword. Circus, Nabe, and J need to step their game up a notch. Admittedly, I'm terrible at reading Soup; I have consistently read him wrong the last few games I've been in with him. There are a few reasons why that don't necessarily need to be brought up, but if further deliberation is necessary, then I have no qualms shedding more light on the matter. Kary is hard to place.

You've got 3 votes on you and I'm thinking about where I stand with all this. Could you explain these instead of shoving them in our face like they mean anything? I don't get the vibe that these came with a lot of thought, regardless of how much time you have.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Circus, Nabe

Does not compute. What's telling between "Nabe not scumhunting" and "Nabe being null as ever?" I don't really have anything damnable for his slot at all, but is that why you're concerned?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

So I knew when I logged in that I would have a prod from Marshy waiting for me, and I do sincerely apologize for continually letting this game get away from me.

What I was not expecting was that I would read up on what I have missed over the last couple days, and find that neither of the people I really wanted to see posts from have made any significant posts. Kuz and J need to get in here.

I'm just going to say that Nabe is probably the last player on this list for whom you should be making allowances like this. Standard "scum wouldn't do this" logic doesn't apply to Nabe. You have to tailor your observations specifically to him. Have you not played with Nabe before? Seeing you give him this kind of leeway for literally no reason ("...this is based entirely on a whim.") is probably the most unsettling thing I've seen from you so far.

For the town points? Obviously? Scum only need one member to stay alive in order to win. If Kuz can make himself that player just by being the first person to start talking about Night action plans (which requires no real scum hunting, the hardest thing for a scummy to fake), then why wouldn't he? Dig a little deeper.



I didn't. Here goes.

I'm not fond of Rockin's 184. It's not that damning, which is why I didn't feel that it was worth isolating before, but it has a certain air of trying to keep up to date on all things that could be a little off. Rockin tried to make sure he touched on all the then-current events in that post, including ones he openly didn't care for, which is just content for the sake of content. Probably the ony element that I actively dislike is that he seems to be of two minds on the J wagon (first expressing weak support of it, then saying he never understood why it formed). This supports the idea that J and Rockin could be aligned that budded in my head very early on, but confirmation bias being what it is, I'm trying not to let that one idea rule me. Regardless, J's the person of interest to me at this stage in the Day, and if there's any real connection to Rockin there, I suspect that will reveal itself more in the days to come.


Whatever you have to say, you should say it. We're in the eleventh hour here, and you waiting for Kuz to pop up right before deadline to make your point is just going to drain it of relevance. Kuz's suddent disappearance is slightly suspect and definitely unhelpful, but you look like you're actively stalling. I had some goodwill built up for you at the beginning of the Day, but that's all pretty much gone now. Go back to looking like you care about finding scum, please. This "ooh, I have this content but if only someone else would post first...!" thing isn't doing anyone any good.

Your reasoning for hopping on the Kuz train (of which I think I am actually the only other passenger right now) is pretty sound, but it's awfully curious that you attribute the hop to Soup's stance, which I don't think Soup has even really given yet. Maybe I missed it, but I haven't actually seen Soup express any specific dislike toward Kuz. There seems to be something that he wants to get off his chest pertaining to the slot, but we don't know what it is yet. Unless you do?

Just to clarify why I think what I do about Circus, this post here goes into a lot of detail about many things, but I just don't feel the heart in it. Forty percent of it is just giving his opinion on why he dislikes Kat's town reads on Kuzi and Nabe, as well as stating (I guess?) slight suspicion on Kat for it. The last 40% is also commenting on things other people said. Him calling Soup out to comment isn't terribly impressive. His response to Ran seems tacked on to. Soup may not have given out "specific" reasoning, but he definitely gave out reasoning that one may find damning. Why even ask Ran about this? This seems to me to be fishing for content to output.

The last 20% in the middle is Circus simply responding to a question. Nothing really townie or scummy about the response. Just some slight dislike towards Rockin.

Overall not convinced that Circus is looking for scum. I'm more convinced though that he's trying to look like he is.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Wouldn't the same logic apply to Kuz? The difference between them? Is this more expectancy of Circus or just something general?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Rockin, get at my #349? Subject to skimming if you've answered.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Does not compute. What's telling between "Nabe not scumhunting" and "Nabe being null as ever?" I don't really have anything damnable for his slot at all, but is that why you're concerned?

I don't think I ever said that he was "null as ever." I think you're confusing me for Circus, as I'm pretty sure that's something Circus said earlier.

I did earlier put Nabe in the null category for one of my reads list.

Anyways, I'm calling him out on "not scum hunting" because of the post he DID make, not the posts he failed to make.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I think the general feeling of Nabe is usually null, most of the time. He's the sort of player through and through.

Do you think Nabe will produce, or do you think he'll continue this play? This is more rhetorical than anything.