DK Patch 1.08 Changes

[Big O]

Ok I just got the patch and have noticed some obvious changes. Below will be a list of confirmed changes and below that will be possible changes.

Confirmed

-You can no longer slide off an edge with specials (blocked punch still suicides tho...)

- Cargo Ftoss 8% dmg -> 10% dmg
- Cargo Ftoss less endlag (55 total frames -> 45)

- Cargo Btoss 8% dmg -> 12% dmg
- Cargo Btoss launch angle increased (more vertical)
- Cargo Btoss less endlag (54 total frames -> 42)

- Cargo Utoss 7% dmg -> 10% dmg (harder to combo from at higher %'s than before)

- Cargo Dtoss 6% dmg -> 7% dmg
- Cargo Dtoss now has a mini hop that floats you while throwing them in the air
- Cargo Dtoss less endlag (59 total frames -> 44)

Possible Changes

???

Deconfirmed

- Punch still suicides on block near an edge
- Punch still has buggy charge
- Punch still has no armor if you land at the wrong time
- Ftilt and Fsmash still whiff when skinny characters walk into you

 

[Agosta44]

Oh my **** they buffed DK

I owe someone money.

 

[King*Krool]

It seems his DOWN B has a bit less lag after you use it. Just slightly.

 

[Brickbox]

Holy crap this is hype.

 

[King*Krool]

His Down Air (Spike) is either even faster than before, has WAY less lag, and reaches further.

Maybe all 3. But his Down Air spike is FAR better.

 

[Brickbox]

So it seems like cargo stage spiking is much more viable?

What would be the most reliable way to go about doing the cargo stage spike now?

 

[Aninymouse]

Ok I just got the patch and have noticed some obvious changes. Below will be a list of confirmed changes and below that will be possible changes.

Confirmed

- Cargo Ftoss 8% dmg -> 10% dmg
- Cargo Ftoss less endlag

- Cargo Btoss 8% dmg -> 12% dmg
- Cargo Btoss launch angle increased (more vertical)
- Cargo Btoss less endlag

- Cargo Utoss 7% dmg -> 10% dmg

- Cargo Dtoss 6% dmg -> 7% dmg
- Cargo Dtoss now has a mini hop that floats you while throwing them in the air
- Cargo Dtoss less endlag

Possible Changes

???

What's this? Sempai has finally noticed us?!

FINALLY SOME DK BUFFS!

 

[Agosta44]

His Down Air (Spike) is either even faster than before, has WAY less lag, and reaches further.

Maybe all 3. But his Down Air spike is FAR better.

I won't believe this until I test it. Hopefully my 3ds copy didn't auto update.

Edit: exact same speed and lag as 1.0.6.

 

[Donkeykong98123]

So it seems like cargo stage spiking is much more viable?

What would be the most reliable way to go about doing the cargo stage spike now?

Cargo Dthrow is probably still better. Since you get a little hop when you use it in the air, there's no way you'll die, and even if they tech it they can't punish you. On the other hand, I think if they tech the Cargo Bthrow spike then they can footstool you. Not sure though.

Also on another note, if they're around 120ish you can jump offstage and Dthrow or Fthrow for a kill. Dthrow is safer because of the hop you get. Sounds dumb but it's a thing.

 

[DK-RULES]

So hyped for the changes.

 

[RomanceDawn]

These changes are so good! I'm off in a far off land but took my Wii U to a friends to get internet and the download! The Cargo buffs are so real and they feel oh so good! The way Cargo Dthrow works with that little hop is really going to change DK's game, teching against the wall or not, this will change how everyone plays DK.

 

[Metalbro]

I'm glad the developers are buffing DK in each patch. Sure these might not be major buffs but they add up slowly.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Side B also felt faster than before, can anyone confirm? Anyway, am loving the buffs! Gonna Cargo a lot more often now!

 

[CPU?]

Fair seems 3 or 4 frames faster.

 

[Agosta44]

Cargo dthrow off stage is incredible. That is all.

 

[Eureka]

So cargo up throw got a damage increase? Wouldn't that make it harder to get follow ups off it since it would send people farther?

 

[itsaxelol]

cargo downthrow momentum is incredible and makes powerbombs MUCH more safe. cool! shame we just got a few whacky damage buffs instead of minus jank, though

 

[RiotLettuce]

Sure the damages and the bounce from cargodthrow is cute, but im very unhappy with the cargoupthrow change, made the whole DK patch a big nerf tbh, we lost a consistency of our kill combo, sad day for DK's

 

[TastyCarcass]

% increase != knockback.

 

[Slowchamp]

Sure the damages and the bounce from cargodthrow is cute, but im very unhappy with the cargoupthrow change, made the whole DK patch a big nerf tbh, we lost a consistency of our kill combo, sad day for DK's

I wonder if that was an intended nerf, or they were just trying to be gracious but unintentionally made one of his best combos worse. cargo up-throw + Up-Air only seems to work in very low percents now. i havent tried cargo up-throw + F-air though.

 

[RiotLettuce]

I wonder if that was an intended nerf, or they were just trying to be gracious but unintentionally made one of his best combos worse. cargo up-throw + Up-Air only seems to work in very low percents now. i havent tried cargo up-throw + F-air though.

I doubt he meant to get rid of our best means of ko'ing, but it ended up that way. Cargoupthrow fair still works. Before patch you could grounded cargoupthrow double jump upair and kill most of the cast around 100-140% and Falcon all the way up to 185% with a true combo, now since cargoupthrow does more knockback you can barely get grounded cargothrow to combo into kill, aerial cargoupthrow still works okay on Falcon, but either way this patch overall was a huge nerf

 

[Eureka]

Wow, it was kinda sad to see the DK buff train immediately derail and crash once the up throw knockback increase was pointed out.

 

[CPU?]

Whats all this talk about cargo up throw to up air being a kill move? The combo only worked till around 30 or 40 percent at most. I mean maybe if you read an air-dodge.

 

[Agosta44]

I doubt he meant to get rid of our best means of ko'ing, but it ended up that way. Cargoupthrow fair still works. Before patch you could grounded cargoupthrow double jump upair and kill most of the cast around 100-140% and Falcon all the way up to 185% with a true combo, now since cargoupthrow does more knockback you can barely get grounded cargothrow to combo into kill, aerial cargoupthrow still works okay on Falcon, but either way this patch overall was a huge nerf

True combo since when?

 

[RiotLettuce]

If you did jump cargothrow double jump uair, you could kill Falcon from like 84-126% or something like that pre-patch, now it works like 80-105% But if you did cargoupthrow on the ground you could double jump uair to kill Falcon from 100-180% and kill most of the cast from like 90-125% Which doesnt work as often now. I can't believe you guys didnt know about jump cargoupthrow double jump uair (ACT, Aerial Cargothrow) But even DKwill didn't know about grounded cargoupthrow double jump upair (GCT Grounded cargothrow)

 

[BradLeeTee]

If what people said is true about not being able to slide off the stage when using specials then it's right to say no more suicide Giant Punches is a pretty huge buff for DK

 

[RiotLettuce]

If what people said is true about not being able to slide off the stage when using specials then it's right to say no more suicide Giant Punches is a pretty huge buff for DK

If it hits shields then you still die, im pretty sure

 

[GiMiX]

Ok I just got the patch and have noticed some obvious changes. Below will be a list of confirmed changes and below that will be possible changes.

Confirmed

- Cargo Ftoss 8% dmg -> 10% dmg
- Cargo Ftoss less endlag

- Cargo Btoss 8% dmg -> 12% dmg
- Cargo Btoss launch angle increased (more vertical)
- Cargo Btoss less endlag

- Cargo Utoss 7% dmg -> 10% dmg

- Cargo Dtoss 6% dmg -> 7% dmg
- Cargo Dtoss now has a mini hop that floats you while throwing them in the air
- Cargo Dtoss less endlag

Possible Changes

???

Deconfirmed

- Punch still suicides on block near an edge
- Punch still has buggy charge
- Punch still has no armor if you land at the wrong time
- Ftilt and Fsmash still whiff when skinny characters walk into you

OM JESUS WHAT. IS THIS REAL LIFE?
The Ryu Hype I had totally swallowed any curiosity I had for balance changes. I had no idea they did any.

Does this mean cargo spike and cargo gimp setups are back from brawl?

 

[RiotLettuce]

OM JESUS WHAT. IS THIS REAL LIFE?
The Ryu Hype I had totally swallowed any curiosity I had for balance changes. I had no idea they did any.

Does this mean cargo spike and cargo gimp setups are back from brawl?

You could always do cargostage spike in this game, now it's just super safe

 

[Gloman600]

really wish down b end lag got fixed he slaps the ground two extra times for no reason and theres slight lag even after that WHY?!?!

 

[Dark Phazon]

Side B also felt faster than before, can anyone confirm? Anyway, am loving the buffs! Gonna Cargo a lot more often now!

I just came here to say the same thing because i felt it too.
Left B is faster now? I think it buries people in the ground for a shorter time too?
Defo feels faster like startup time.

@ Gloman600 i wish aerial down b had less end lag you could do some funny disgusting things if so.

Sogh...DK couldd be so good he is so fun and hilarious.
Biggest buff would be reduced end lag on FAir.

 

[TastyCarcass]

Why would you need reduced end lag on fair? For what it is it makes sense for it to have end lag. It wouldn't really effect his game much.
DK needs better frame data really. The Down B thing is true, you can be punished for landing that thing

 

[Lazy Imp]

I just registered to write here the two "buffs" I would love to see in DK.

- Overall hurtboxes reduction...
- More grip on his feet... For faster breaking and less bull****ting while charging/using Giant Punch...

I mean, with these two changes I would be so happy. We don't need less endlag or startup, damage or knocback.
I'm a-o-kay with the frame data... It takes more patience than other characters, but that's exactly what's fun about DK.

Now, now... Hitting a Giant Punch on a shield and suiciding is so annoying. It doesn't add anything to the game. Or even worse, not being able to break in time to defend a Samus cannon? Being caught by Sing while casting Mega Punch miles away?

None of those are cool and even tho sometimes it's our mistakes that lead into this situation, overall the hurtbox and grip from DK are very very annoying and most of the time feels like Nintendo is telling you: "Yo... DK shouldn't be taken seriously!"

But what can I do...? I love this Giant Pink Dong...

PS: I am not complaining about the changes! They are awesome... But they are not what I was expecting.

 

[DaRkJaWs]

From what I can tell cargo stage spiking downwards is better on some stages (as opposed to cargo forward or back throwing) but a bad part about the change is that due to having to release the throw later on they have slightly more time to break out of it. I feel that jumping off stage towards the blast zone and either cargo down throwing or forward throwing is the better option overall, though in some circumstances the stage spike is better (an opponent that can tech well also goes into the determination)

Btw dk has a million kill options off stage so losing the cargo up throw double jump up air really doesn't matter like the person above engaging in hyperbole is saying.

really wish down b end lag got fixed he slaps the ground two extra times for no reason and theres slight lag even after that WHY?!?!

Try to use his neutral attack a little more often than his down b, if you can get hits in with it you can do follow ups whereas with down b you cannot.

 

[RiotLettuce]

From what I can tell cargo stage spiking downwards is better on some stages (as opposed to cargo forward or back throwing) but a bad part about the change is that due to having to release the throw later on they have slightly more time to break out of it. I feel that jumping off stage towards the blast zone and either cargo down throwing or forward throwing is the better option overall, though in some circumstances the stage spike is better (an opponent that can tech well also goes into the determination)

Btw dk has a million kill options off stage so losing the cargo up throw double jump up air really doesn't matter like the person above engaging in hyperbole is saying above.


Try to use his neutral attack a little more often than his down b, if you can get hits in with it you can do follow ups whereas with down b you cannot.

I don't understand why you always try to argue with me, just for the sake of arguing. Losing a guaranteed kill combo on like 75% of the cast is a huge deal, you can't even argue that

 

[DaRkJaWs]

I knew about it but didn't depend on it and rarely ever did it, and I can still battle with the best of them (just the other day I faced blacktwins' Mario for about 25-30 games and other than the few unforced sds I had it was barely in his favor in the neutral, and I didn't do the cargo up throw kill once). Now of course we have a few more options off stage so you just to have to adapt your approach. I think with time dk is going to be a very formidable champion/character even without customs but of course would still have some not so favorable matchups. Like, there is no reason dk cannot get top 8 at Evo if he's understood and used the right way. Unfortunately I don't have matchup experience vs some of the characters in the hands of top players otherwise I'd be feeling very confident right now.

 

[Big O]

Not sure there is any need for being defensive or overly argumentative. Do I smell the beginnings of a grudge match at EVO ?

I have to agree with @ RiotLettuce on this and say that the Utoss change is a noticeable nerf. The % ranges that Utoss -> Uair combos at now are smaller than before, especially when you factor in rage. Against floaty characters there is no real difference (didn't combo pre-patch anyway), but against the people who it did work on it was an extremely useful early KO option to have. Whether or not we "needed" it, there is no denying the obvious merit of KO combo's off a grab from as early as ~70%. It still combos into stuff at early %'s. However, it doesn't combo into Uair as reliably at KO %'s as it used to.

Overall, the other buffs outweigh the Utoss nerf imo. His grab game is more dangerous against everyone except those he had an easier time KO'ing with Utoss -> Uair. If he lands a grab at very high %'s he can pretty much always end the stock now and he can setup gimps/stagespikes much better than before.

 

[RiotLettuce]

@ DaRkJaWs If you weren't using the cargoupthrow uair kill combo, you werent optimizing DK pre-patch, but even post-patch DK is still very good

@ Big O I feel like they would outweigh the U-toss nerf if we couldn't stage spike before, we lost a reliable kill combo for most of the cast, but we have a safer way of stage spiking. I don't think that outweighs it, but it's just my opinion. Not like it would be a big nerf or anything, I've already changed my playstyle based on the patch, I just liked having a guaranteed kill combo without having to worry about teching or any airdodge reads or anything like that, just one grab and I know theyre dead, but what's done is done so I'm okay with it

 

[Donkeykong98123]

If Halberd doesn't get banned vs us we get a kill confirm off of Cargo Bthrow if they get grabbed on the platform. Just have to grab, jump, and at the apex of the jump Bthrow them. Kills at around 130% during the first aerial phase of the stage, then during the phase with the stage hazards they die at around 115%. Both are done on the platform and tested on Mario. Pretty sure we couldn't do this pre-patch

 

[GiMiX]

Can't cargo up throw kill at those kinds of percentages in low ceiling scenarios as well? (Even more so now)
Or is back throw stronger?
Maybe its because people normally DI up to avoid a follow up when you use the up throw, they end up killing themselves or DI down into your uAir.

I didn't find the Cargo Up -> Uair/ Jump -> Cargo Up -> Uair that useful as a kill option besides against like 4 or 5 characters. Everyone else was able to DI out of it or react in time at kill percents.
Having a reliable stage spike and dunk setups off stage like DKs glory days in Brawl is more than enough compensation I think.