DK Infinite throw trap technical data

[Mr Bushido]

Hi.

DK THROW TRAP RELIABILITY TIER LIST:
S :
A :
B :
F :

Elaboration:
ITT, when performed right, will always work on Jigglypuff with relative ease.

ITT, when performed right, will work on Captain Falcon, Kirby, Fox, Link and Ness if they are unable to roll out of it (only the case with CPU's and subhuman keyboard players). Consistency may depend on %.

ITT performs inconsistently against experienced Pikachu, Samus, Mario and Luigi due to their UpB's rapid startup. The EZ way (as described below) is discouraged against these characters.

ITT does not work against Yoshi or another DK due to the knockback sending them behind the player.



The EZ Way: (Shield grab ITT)

1. Grab opponent
2. Press A/R/forward to piggy back opponent
3. Hold Z
4. Wait for release animation
5. Mash A as fast as possible while still holding Z (to regrab)
6. Repeat until % high enough for a stale bthrow KO (about 60% near DL edge for Kirby)
7. Bthrow

This technique has lead to more consistency for me however it is worth noting that shield grabbing requires at least an extra frame in order for the shield to appear and is therefore discouraged against B-tiered characters.

All in all :
Due to its overall inadequcy, ITT is best used to "refresh" the button mashing threshold needed to escape the grab if DK plans on jumping or using the fthrow for a combo OR if DK wants to change the direction he's facing to perform a regrab+bthrow.




If you are Sangoku/mixa/have technical knowledge about DK's ITT, please post it here.



Thanks Earth

 

[Sangoku]

I read "in this thread" for more than half of the post.

I have written the technical data several times, I wonder if it's not even if my big thread. Will search later.

At 0%
If you mash one button (a, empty, a, empty, ...) or one direction (left, empty, left, empty, ...) the minimum number of frames is 48.
If you mash two button (a, b, a, b, ...) or two directions (left, right, left, right, ...) the minimum number of frames is 34 (twice as many inputs).
If you mash a direction and a button (left a, right b, left a, right b, ...) the minimum number of frames is 27.

Looks like my first post was pretty bad (confusing and with mistakes). I said the number of frames from the moment DK input R (or A or whatever works) the second time (first time grabs, second time goes to cargo hold). However, from here there are 19 frames before you can start inputting something. Then you need 15 inputs.
So:
spamming A: 48-19=29 (you waste 14 frames in between the A's).
spamming A-B: 34-19= 15
spamming A+left-B+right: 27-19= 8.

Hope everything's clear now.

Yes. In fact, mashing one direction is registered as one input. It can't be visible with DK, since you need 15 to escape (you get stuck at 14), but there is an impact on shieldbreak and sing, since it will lower the number of frames by 4 (as would one input of another button do).

Sing is pretty similar to shieldbreak: there's a given amount of frames (375 for sing) from which you subtract your percent (maximum -300) and subtract 4 for each input.

To add to the discussion, here's a good post. The general technique is A+left and B+right, but since you need to be too fast to be able to escape the "infinite", it's more reliable to try the moves ant-d mentioned.

 

[mixa]

so is it possible: yes
but will it ever be done by a human player: no
and really nothing's infinite right? if the universe will end in a certain time, then nothing can be done infinitely anyway >_______________>

the fatalism of ant-d





k, the first thing I wanted to know doesn't seem to be written anywhere. what's the frame advantage after the grab release?

I started testing the frame advantage and it depends on character and %, which is not fun.

 

[The Star King]

Yeah the funny thing about DK's grab release is it has a non-static knockback, which is counter-intuitive if you ask me. If you grab release someone at 999% they fly away a decent amount.

 

[Metà]

does this mean that DK is the only character in the game that has a reliable infinite? brawl has like 5,000 infinites LOL

64 > brawl

edit: not sure about percents and how they factor in though. maybe this game doesn't have any infinites

 

[The Star King]

does this mean that DK is the only character in the game that has a reliable infinite? brawl has like 5,000 infinites LOL

64 > brawl

edit: not sure about percents and how they factor in though. maybe this game doesn't have any infinites

I wouldn't call this reliable. And, uh, this isn't an infinite either.

There's Fox short hop first hit uair loops but that's quite difficult to keep up and does like 2% at a time. Not practical at all.

There's dtilting repeatedly with Yoshi. On Hyrule. Vs like two characters. At a specific location. Situational. And Hyrule is banned now (at Apex) anyway.

And DI is always a thing. I just mentioned the stuff that isn't particularly easy to DI, but it is possible. So absolutely everything is possible to escape. There's also stuff like Fox sh dair loops (on Puff.. maybe others...?), Fox full hop first hit uair -> dair loop, Kirby fair loop on the left side of Hyrule, etc, which I didn't mention because they're really easy to DI out of. Those are just training mode stuff.

So yeah there isn't really anything I would call a "reliable infinite" in this game.

 

[rjgbadger]

what about the hamstur kick infinite on fox

 

[The Star King]

what about the hamstur kick infinite on fox

wat

 

[rjgbadger]

when fox is recovering, you can use low angle ftilt to edge guard him. set knock back so you can do it infinitely xD

fox's low ftilt as an edge guard tactic is the hamstur kick (credit to LD for coining the term)

 

[B Link]

Well in 1v1 with non modified maps I think there is likely no infinite. In 2v1 there are many TRUE infinites (e.g. fox low ftilts, grab chains).

I think theoretically you could have a 1v1 infinite using a modified Peach's Castle map (e.g. using the bumper and, say, yoshi's dtilt, and maybe some other moves might work).

I'm too lazy to try those kinds of things out though

 

[rpotts]

Assuming we're not counting DI, since you could theoretically DI out of any combo or infinite other than the team grab combos you mentioned, there are a few infinites that come to mind. Any characters multi-jab combo against a wall is an infinite by that standard, Fox's first hit uair combos, Yoshi's dtilt against the tent. I bet Fox has some wall infinites with repeated shines against floaties too, like Jiggs bouncing off the tent or something, idk.

 

[B Link]

Assuming we're not counting DI, since you could theoretically DI out of any combo or infinite other than the team grab combos you mentioned, there are a few infinites that come to mind. Any characters multi-jab combo against a wall is an infinite by that standard, Fox's first hit uair combos, Yoshi's dtilt against the tent. I bet Fox has some wall infinites with repeated shines against floaties too, like Jiggs bouncing off the tent or something, idk.

wat, i am counting di. fox's low ftilt has set knockback, as does yoshi's dtilt iirc

 

[rpotts]

But you can still smash DI moves with set knockback, they still have hitlag and thus a "DI window"

 

[B Link]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UeWUd6ldBo

I referenced the above video which said it was a true infinite. Sadly it was mistaken. Through TAS today I discovered that the 3 frame window for DI (using perfect slide DI) allows you to escape the team combo, so it is not a true infinite. I was under the assumption that even with DI it was unescapable.

I am not oblivious to the fact that those hits can be DI'd, thank you. My point was that not all possibilities have been tested so far. I'm sure that EVEN WITH DI there are infinites (other than team grab combo) possible. It would just require moves with low DI frame windows. Like I said I'm too lazy to try stuff out. Maybe you should try some.

 

[Cobrevolution]

infinite sleep

thank you

 

[mixa]

hey Z

ITT does not work against Yoshi or another DK due to the knockback sending them behind the player.

moving works
frames are not in DK's favor, though

vs

Damage | Frame Advantage
0%|-1
70%|+3
100%|+4

+4 is not enough
if you're frame perfect, grab comes out in 6 frames, but parry can be buffered, etc
might be fun to try it, though.