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Controlling the fight v Meta Knight

talkingbeatles

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
790
Location
Austin, TX
Winning can be a tricky thing in this game, especially for those of us who main Captain Falcon. There are aspects of Falcons physics and gameplay that we should all be aware of, no doubt. And of course, there are plenty of strategies and mind-games that a Falcon player has to be familiar with in order to consistently pull out victories. That having been said, I don't think any serious SSBB player jumps into a fight and attempts, without any real strategy, to simply throw a mix of their characters moves at the opponent in a haphazard fashion. Sure, at the root of the game, this is what occurs; but I believe it is a bit more complicated than arbitrarily picking moves in which to damage our enemies with.

Because there is strategy after all. We count frames, deliberate character match-ups, and create tier lists in an effort to better understand how to become a successful fighter.

I would like to introduce a specific way to look at the fighting in Brawl. I say "introduce," but I imagine a lot of people already view the game in a similar vein. Let's dig deep though now. In any given battle in Brawl, your strategy, and the in turn, your opponents strategy, changes drastically throughout the 5 to 8 minutes you're fighting. It's possible and beneficial to understand where these changes in strategy occur, both in your opponents performance and your own. I am positing that there is a way to control, or steer, the fight in a direction that allows you to more efficiently pull off wins.

By identifying the changes that occur within a match, and knowing what to do when said changes occur, we can understand how to properly control any given fight. I'd like to propose three stages: The beginning, or any neutral part of the fight where the percentages are relatively even; the end of the fight, advantage you (understanding how to finish off the opponent); being behind and near death, and knowing how to come back.

I figure we can start on Meta Knight, because, you know, that'll be fun.



The Falcon match-Up Index says it's 25:75.
The Official BBR Matchup Chart says we've got a -3.

What do you guys think?
 

Psychoace

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
2,689
Location
Manliest city in Texas
(The only thing we have going for us in this matchup is the users inexperience vs us.)

Metaknight is pretty ****ing hard. Best frame data in the game vs. Potentially the worst frame data in the game. Not many moves we have beat his, most of the time we're lucky if it clanks, but you have to try and work around that. Let's break down what I normally do with the situations you have presented.

"The beginning, or any neutral part of the fight where the percentages are relatively even": So the match starts up I'll normally play cautiously and bait habits until I can formulate some plan. Typically it's a hit and run game with upair and bair. Damage racking moves (uair strings, tornado, down throw to follow ups)and non-punishable/hard to punish moves (dair). When it's even play safe, that's not to say never play safe though. DI to the right or left to get out of uair string and falcon kick, down smash, uptilt, pivot grab beat tornado. Grabbing metaknight is pretty essential to get a quick kill and it's really hard to do so if you can read a tornado and grab him out of it that could be your chance to rack up damage and kill him.

"the end of the fight, advantage you (understanding how to finish off the opponent)": The end of my first part basically. If you have the percent lead metaknight will want to come to you, this works out for us but be careful. Most metaknights will come in with nado to try and get the lead back and juggle you from it to put you in a bad position i.e. off stage or above him. When recovering go around metaknight never challenge him with anything offstage lol.

"being behind and near death, and knowing how to come back": ....ah being offstage against anyone. It pretty much sucks. If you're recovering high and far away I might suggest falcon kick, but most of the time the metaknight will just nair you for the kill. I've recently learned that if you're recovering low with falcon dive or something and metaknight hits you with a dtilt he can run off and nair you for a frame trap gimp. Offstage coming back is hard and pretty much a death sentence, getting the percent back is primarily getting those reads and playing the hit and run game though metaknight might plank you (I've never ran into one that planks falcon though lol).

Random tidbits you may or may not know:
Use bair issss gooood, clanks with glide attack. and pivot grab, moooore pivot grab. If your in the air above tornado dair it. Jab > up air helps create set ups for more damage and does good damage itself. Rco lag watch out for it, we need all the frame advantages we can get lol.
 

Pktck

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
124
Location
Atlanta, GA
Isn't metaknight's down smash faster than our jab? :(

We should get Ally's opinion on this thread.
 

lordhelmet

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
4,196
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
No lol dsmash is frame 4. I believe his ftilt and dtilt are frame 3.


Btw, if you're getting up air stringed you can SDI down and you'll escape it.
 

teluoborg

Smash Otter
Premium
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
4,060
Location
Paris, France
NNID
teloutre
I like the idea behind this thread, but MK is not the matchup to start with.


No matter how you look at it it's horrible.

Aside from frame data (which is terribly one sided), the rest of the theorycraft is looking down on us :
-Falcon has a big hurtbox, little hitboxes, limited disjoint, and under average recovery
-MK has little hurtbox, huge disjointed transcendant hitboxes. He has invincible Up B, frame 2 Uair and frame 4 Dsmash to interrupt any of our frame traps, outrageous recovery options and unlimited mixups.

I've tried this matchup a long time ago but then I realized that putting 10 times as much work just to be able to go 50-50 with bad MKs wasn't worth it.
The matchups where Falcon is totally shut down aren't that many, but MK is one of them.

Pick a secondary or die trying.
 

talkingbeatles

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
790
Location
Austin, TX
My secondary is Ganon.
heh


I like what pyschoace has for being in the lead. I think the biggest thing is to not get greedy, especially with MK. A key is to switch into a mode of defense that appears to be aggressive. I like throwing out ac'd knees and bairs that aren't really meant to hit; I really try to bait him. Early game, this isn't necessary, since MK will just rush you, I assume. It's much easier to fight defensively then.

I've never fought a MK who planks against me, (they never feel it necessary) so I don't know how to handle one that does. Precise spacing your u-tilt is a must in this match-up, I feel.
 

BigLord

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
1,594
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Lisbon, Portugal
NNID
BiigLord
3DS FC
3024-7470-9499
The only real way to beat MK is to:
- Get lucky. The MK has to be inexperienced against Captain Falcon;
- Get lucky AGAIN. The MK has to be very agressive, so you can counter with a passive-agressive strategy (defend and counter);
- Don't get hit.

In any case, I don't have a specific strategy against MK since he isn't that used of a character here in Portugal (lolwut I know, most of us use low and mid tiers haha).
 

-Mars-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 26, 2007
Messages
6,515
Location
UTAH
falcon MK is like 50-50, always grab release combo, always PS>jab &or grab nado, only bait him to throw out moves then punish the relatively little end lag.

PS alone makes this a much more possible mu than it seems.

also grab releasing MK in a position where he is close to the ledge garuntees a dropzone footstool>knee(a much more powerful/difficult option than a dropzone uair)
 

Zeallyx

Fox mains get all the girlz
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
5,575
Location
Europe
falcon MK is like 50-50, always grab release combo, always PS>jab &or grab nado, only bait him to throw out moves then punish the relatively little end lag.

PS alone makes this a much more possible mu than it seems.

also grab releasing MK in a position where he is close to the ledge garuntees a dropzone footstool>knee(a much more powerful/difficult option than a dropzone uair)
You just lost all credibility as a smasher.

But you've gained all credibility as a troll.
 

teluoborg

Smash Otter
Premium
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
4,060
Location
Paris, France
NNID
teloutre
Not really. PSing stuff is easy, it's buffering stuff out of PS that is incredibly stupidly hard to pull off voluntarily.
 

NeoBatou

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 29, 2009
Messages
955
Location
Fort Worth, TX
falcon MK is like 50-50, always grab release combo, always PS>jab &or grab nado, only bait him to throw out moves then punish the relatively little end lag.

PS alone makes this a much more possible mu than it seems.

also grab releasing MK in a position where he is close to the ledge garuntees a dropzone footstool>knee(a much more powerful/difficult option than a dropzone uair)
I"m just going to pretend I didn't see this. :glare:

Anyways...

I have to deal with the most aggressive/annoying Metaknights in Texas.

Dphat to be specific...he always waits for the gimp, and at times he'll wait to see you reaction and react accordingly. Never in tournament/friendlies have I ever got to dominate a Mk player, so inexperience is out the damn door for me.

Obviously I've had to pick up a secondary (ROB or GaW depending on who I play) because Metaknight is still just an unfair MU.
 

-Mars-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 26, 2007
Messages
6,515
Location
UTAH
lol but texas sucks at smash and baws to ban mk so no one cares.
 

Teran

Through Fire, Justice is Served
Super Moderator
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
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37,165
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Well how about that, looks like infractions can work after all.
 
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