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Smash 3DS Competitive Viability of SSB3D

Saikyoshi

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In another thread, a user (who was posting off-topic and for the purpose of bashing) brought this to my attention - Many people don't think that Super Smash Bros. 3D is going to have a large competitive scene, in part due to connectivity problems, the unreliable battery, and the uncomfortable controls.

However, what's your opinion on the matter?

I personally feel that there are ways to alleviate the problems and, though it won't flourish as much as the Super Smash Bros. U scene, there will be large tournaments.
 

Morbi

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I am sure that a scene will be conceived upon launch; after that, I am not entirely certain that it will not be over-shadowed by the Wii U version. As I mentioned earlier, everything has the capacity to be competitive, it is largely dependent on those who shape the scene, however. So "we shall see" is basically the most accurate notion that I can ascertain from my empirical knowledge pertaining to similar situations.
 

Hokori

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I see the scene for the game being more of a fun type of thing. From what I've gathered, it's looking like the majority of people around the forums are either getting both versions or just holding out for the Wii U version. While I have noticed that there are some only getting it on the 3DS, I don't think it'll be strong enough to hold its own.

As mentioned, issues with connectivity, battery (would need to be surrounded by outlets :awesome:) and uncomfortable controls will turn people off to playing the game super seriously. It'll be a thing for the few months it has before the Wii U release, however, once the Wii U version drops, the 3DS will just be for fun in my opinion. It would be a lot to have Tournament Organizers squeeze in the 3DS version while including Smash Wii U, Project M, and Melee. Although all three of those titles won't be played at every single tournament, I feel as though the scene for those games will still be strong at the same time.

So basically I only see it happening at tournaments that are focusing on SSB Wii U/3DS exclusively. As my friend @ Morbi Morbi mentioned, everything has the capacity to be competitive, but I just don't see our community actively pushing the 3DS version in that direction alongside the Wii U version.
 

Second Power

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The only necessity to create a competitive scene is a player base. So long as there's a will, there's a way. Any problem can be conquered. Will we be as big as the Wii U scene? I don't think we'll be completely overshadowed, like some do. Sure, given issues with streaming, we won't be as loud, but we'll still be around. I could be wrong since I've never organized a tournament, but it seems like it'd be easier to do so with the 3DS version than the Wii U version.

Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm going to treat the 3DS version like less of the spectator sport Smash is now and focus on getting fans playing. I'm hoping to get a tutor program going later down the road, either something 'official' over smash boards or just giving people pointers at locals.
 

Hokori

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The only necessity to create a competitive scene is a player base. So long as there's a will, there's a way. Any problem can be conquered. Will we be as big as the Wii U scene? I don't think we'll be completely overshadowed, like some do. Sure, given issues with streaming, we won't be as loud, but we'll still be around. I could be wrong since I've never organized a tournament, but it seems like it'd be easier to do so with the 3DS version than the Wii U version.

Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm going to treat the 3DS version like less of the spectator sport Smash is now and focus on getting fans playing. I'm hoping to get a tutor program going later down the road, either something 'official' over smash boards or just giving people pointers at locals.
And I like that. If people genuinely care, I can see it going somewhere. The VGBC videos featuring the movesets of all the characters was nice to see and that was all handled on the 3DS. The graphics are just fine to me and I'm definitely going to be playing it often. Don't see the point in wasting money on the game just to completely put it down due to the Wii U version's release. It's a whole new experience for the Smash scene since it's on a handheld. I'm honestly interested in how things end up.
 

pickle962

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It's a pretty common fact of competitive gaming (fighters especially) that home consoles are often the version of choice when it comes to the tournament scene as a whole, but even more so with today's latest technology being all about streaming things on the internet be it movies, tv shows, and yes video games too! (Twitch anybody?) Not saying that it's impossible to set up and stream footage of a handheld game, but its more of a pain than its worth most of the time what with first finding a big TV as well as some device that can transfer gameplay from handheld(s) to said TV in crystal clear definition, setting up an outlet that can support enough chargers for said handheld system, and on top of that, finding a way to perfectly stream a competitive match since many people these days are used to quality 720p-1080p footage when it comes to well... anything in general!

With that said, I'm sure the 3DS will find a cozy home here in the "Online Tournaments" section of our forums which needs a injection anyhow to help keep the blood flowing since Brawl tournaments on there are all but dead as of now and from the looks of it, not many people seem to be in the mood to hack their Wii or download software to allow them to keep playing Brawl online or Project M for that matter which I believe needs an emulator if you want to fight other people over the internet. Having played a bit of the 3DS version of Sm4sh at Best Buy, I can honestly say that if you are a smash junkie, the controls should be the least of your problems as I had little issue with moving/jumping around and whooping MegaMan's robot *** as Little Mac on Gerudo Valley ;)
 

Sobreviviente

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Im sure there will be an small but powerfull scene, just consider the miis and amiibos, those seems to be excellent for a portable community.
 

ChikoLad

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I see it as being a side thing at IRL tournaments, and then people will have online tournaments going on all of the time (provided the net code turns out OK).

However, I don't think the 3DS version needs it's own scene. Because practice from the 3DS version will carry over to the Wii U version, since the characters all play the same. So a person who only owns the 3DS version could still participate in the Wii U tournaments perfectly fine.
 

MasterOfKnees

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I don't really see a reason for it to take off, once the Wii U version is out there won't be any reason to bring forth the 3DS version at tournaments outside of easier friendlies, there's just no benefit hosting tourneys for the 3DS version over the Wii U version. It's easier to set-up just a few Wii Us, it's easier to stream from a home console, it has Gamecube Controller support, it has the best stages for competitive play thus far, not to mention it also has the better graphics which is nice for the stream. Because of this I think the 3DS version is bound to just be the casual experience or for training yourself when you don't have access to your Wii U, it's simply not going to be a tournament hit.
 

Soul.

 
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If Smash 3DS is going to get a competitive scene, it's going to be online-only. Once that specific version releases, maybe players can see if the online has lag. I really don't think it's gonna get lag though. Maybe it's because of Nintendo's new online service (Nintendo Network).
Even if the Wii U version releases, there will be players on 3DS version. Of course, while the Wii U version may be the "definitive" version to some, that's just an opinion. If 3DS-exclusive players want to make their version competitive, let them make it competitive. It's a Smash game, after all.
 
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ORVO5

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Would it be impossible to think that they would come out with a peripheral to make playing a fighting game on the 3DS easier? I could have sworn there was one already.. I have to play the game first but based on all the games I've played on my 3DSXL, I gotta say, those games give me hand cramps. I can see the 3DS version good for on-the-go fights. Say, if I'm out and there just happens to be wifi around for one or two online matches, or if I just happened to be in a Smash-populated place, local fighting would be convenient. But if I'm at home I'll definitely be using the WiiU version. I think it really depends on how enjoyable it is, so for me, it has to do with the controls for the 3DS version.
 

Soul.

 
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Would it be impossible to think that they would come out with a peripheral to make playing a fighting game on the 3DS easier? I could have sworn there was one already.. I have to play the game first but based on all the games I've played on my 3DSXL, I gotta say, those games give me hand cramps. I can see the 3DS version good for on-the-go fights. Say, if I'm out and there just happens to be wifi around for one or two online matches, or if I just happened to be in a Smash-populated place, local fighting would be convenient. But if I'm at home I'll definitely be using the WiiU version. I think it really depends on how enjoyable it is, so for me, it has to do with the controls for the 3DS version.
I guess, it can happen, it can't happen. You can only hope. Yeah, that's why the 3DS version is good. If a player doesn't want/need the Wii U version, they can bring their 3DS and practice, or if they don't want to, they can do friendlies online. Another thing about the 3DS version is that you can practice advance techniques right away. Like, if a player wants to learn an advanced technique, they can turn on their 3DS and play Smash right away.
If the 3DS XL gives you hand cramps, you can get grips for it, as seen in a thread somewhere on this forum. You'll be fine. I don't see a problem with the controls themselves. If there's an option to change their layouts like in Brawl, they're gonna be okay.
Either way, I don't see the 3DS scene disappearing when the Wii U version launches. The two versions will be great.
 
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ORVO5

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I guess, it can happen, it can't happen. You can only hope. Yeah, that's why the 3DS version is good. If a player doesn't want/need the Wii U version, they can bring their 3DS and practice, or if they don't want to, they can do friendlies online. Another thing about the 3DS version is that you can practice advance techniques right away. Like, if a player wants to learn an advanced technique, they can turn on their 3DS and play Smash right away.
That's what I think I'll use it for the most. Practice while on the go, then when it's time to get serious, hop on the Wii U.

If the 3DS XL gives you hand cramps, you can get grips for it, as seen in a thread somewhere on this forum. You'll be fine. I don't see a problem with the controls themselves. If there's an option to change their layouts like in Brawl, they're gonna be okay.
Either way, I don't see the 3DS scene disappearing when the Wii U version launches. The two versions will be great.
My main problem is the left side of the game pad. The directional buttons are hard to use and I usually prefer that over the analog stick when playing a fighting game. We'll see I guess. I don't see the 3DS version disappearing either, I think it'll stand it's ground as well as be a complementary game for Wii U Smashers.
 

Fyrefox

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You're all overshadowing the 3DS version, seriously. Those who say there won't be likely haven't even played the game yet, so how can you know for sure there won't be? Even if it doesn't have a competitive scene, the game can still be good. Makes me think back when people thought Brawl was an upset because there wasn't a "competitive" scene, sheesh, lighten up folks.
 
D

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I think SSB 3DS will be a great game. I don't see myself having problems with the controls or online. Both versions are aimed towards both casual and hardcore gamers. Like xSoul said, you can do friendlies, tournaments related to the boards, online. You can also practice advanced techniques and do the same with the Wii U version. I'm pretty sure that SSB3DS will have customizable controls. Brawl had that, so we can't rule out the possibility.. yet. Personally, I'm more into the handheld game, since it's a fresh and new take on Smash Bros. I'll be sure to try out all characters to see who's going to be my SSB4 main. I don't think I'll need a grip for the 3DS, since I barely have problems withthe ergonomics, but I agree, the 3DS XL is better. I also agree with the 3DS competitive scene not disappearing either. It's going to be an awesome experience.
 

Soul.

 
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That's what I think I'll use it for the most. Practice while on the go, then when it's time to get serious, hop on the Wii U.


My main problem is the left side of the game pad. The directional buttons are hard to use and I usually prefer that over the analog stick when playing a fighting game. We'll see I guess. I don't see the 3DS version disappearing either, I think it'll stand it's ground as well as be a complementary game for Wii U Smashers.
Well, if you want to use it as a training ground, it's all right. Nobody's going to force you to play Smash 3DS competitively. It's still a good idea to practice before a match that way. Or when the player doesn't feel like playing on Wii U, they can practice on 3DS.
While Smash Wii U might be the "serious" version, I think the 3DS version could be as serious as the console version, regardless of its gimmicky stages. Brawl and Melee had gimmicky stages, and most of the time, they're played on Smashville and Battlefield, respectively. And besides, both versions are the same game. Even if it's on a handheld, it's going to get a competitive scene, for better or worse.
Your left side is getting problems? You can try to find someone to repair your 3DS, if it keeps getting problems. If that's not the case, you can get the controller grips. We'll see though, like you said.
 

Saikyoshi

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Considering we already know SSB3D has For Glory stage versions, too, I don't see how stages are an issue.
 

Soul.

 
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Considering we already know SSB3D has For Glory stage versions, too, I don't see how stages are an issue.
Yeah, it has For Glory stages. But the question is though, will they be playable with friends online, or will they be only playable for said mode?
The only viable stages that Smash 3DS has at the moment are Battlefield, Final Destination, Arena Ferox and the Prism Tower. Unless by some miracle the For Glory stages are playable with friends online, we'll have to see the other stages.
 

Saikyoshi

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Yeah, it has For Glory stages. But the question is though, will they be playable with friends online, or will they be only playable for said mode?
The only viable stages that Smash 3DS has at the moment are Battlefield, Final Destination, Arena Ferox and the Prism Tower. Unless by some miracle the For Glory stages are playable with friends online, we'll have to see the other stages.
I don't see why they wouldn't. I'm pretty sure they're available for offline play, too.
 

Second Power

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Yeah, it has For Glory stages. But the question is though, will they be playable with friends online, or will they be only playable for said mode?
The only viable stages that Smash 3DS has at the moment are Battlefield, Final Destination, Arena Ferox and the Prism Tower. Unless by some miracle the For Glory stages are playable with friends online, we'll have to see the other stages.
If we were a bit more liberal with our stage list, we could probably add one/all of Tortimer Island, Reset Bomb Forest, or Spirit Track. They're a bit risky (I mean the word that's pronounced 'risk-ah' but have no idea how to spell it), but I've been watching 64 lately and having hazards or a cave life (the one in Forest is destructible btw) seems fine for them, which is why I'd like to try it.
 

Saikyoshi

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If we were a bit more liberal with our stage list, we could probably add one/all of Tortimer Island, Reset Bomb Forest, or Spirit Track. They're a bit risky (I mean the word that's pronounced 'risk-ah' but have no idea how to spell it), but I've been watching 64 lately and having hazards or a cave life (the one in Forest is destructible btw) seems fine for them, which is why I'd like to try it.
The word you're looking for is "risqé".

And those will probably be Counterpick.

The comparison to 64 doesn't work, though, because Dream Land's the only stage allowed after a recent rule change, with Peach's Castle and Kongo Jungle as counterpicks.

Three stages max, one stage normally. Yet 64 still has a healthy scene.

I think SSB3D's going to be fine.
 

Soul.

 
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If we were a bit more liberal with our stage list, we could probably add one/all of Tortimer Island, Reset Bomb Forest, or Spirit Track. They're a bit risky (I mean the word that's pronounced 'risk-ah' but have no idea how to spell it), but I've been watching 64 lately and having hazards or a cave life (the one in Forest is destructible btw) seems fine for them, which is why I'd like to try it.
Well, I don't see a problem with Tortimer Island. Even if there's a stage hazard in there, the player will be KO'ed by the opponent anyway, so it's not a big deal. Spirit Train could be a counter pick or something, because of its structure. It might favor characters with projectiles. And as for Reset Bomb Forest...yeah, you're right about that. Hyrule Castle from Smash 64 has a stage hazard and the players choose that stage. It could work. It's a good idea to be more liberal with stages. The 3DS scene is supposed to be unique, right?
Back on topic, though, Saikyoshi, you could be right about that. They could be playable offline or online with friends. I suppose it wouldn't be overcentralizing.
 

Second Power

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The word you're looking for is "risqé".

And those will probably be Counterpick.

The comparison to 64 doesn't work, though, because Dream Land's the only stage allowed after a recent rule change, with Peach's Castle and Kongo Jungle as counterpicks.

Three stages max, one stage normally. Yet 64 still has a healthy scene.

I think SSB3D's going to be fine.
Really? While I'm not the most well versed in 64 (or at all), I've seen Apex 2014 matches played on Hyrule Castle. I've seen Peach's Castle maybe once (which does have a hazard), but never Kongo Jungle. How recent is this?

Never mind the whole starter/CP system is flawed.

And, either way, my point still stands. Hyrule Castle has been around for a few years at least and I've seen national tournament games played on it. The game isn't even out yet, and I'd like to see the stance innocent until proven guilty taken. Anything else is just plain lazy.
 

Soul.

 
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Really? While I'm not the most well versed in 64 (or at all), I've seen Apex 2014 matches played on Hyrule Castle. I've seen Peach's Castle maybe once (which does have a hazard), but never Kongo Jungle. How recent is this?

Never mind the whole starter/CP system is flawed.

And, either way, my point still stands. Hyrule Castle has been around for a few years at least and I've seen national tournament games played on it. The game isn't even out yet, and I'd like to see the stance innocent until proven guilty taken. Anything else is just plain lazy.
While the starter/counter pick system may be flawed, we could say we're speculating about the viability of the stages. If the Smash 3DS scene wants to be more liberal with stages, what could be their "starters" and their "counter picks"? I'm sure they could be called something else. If that's not possible, how can we remake them as starter stages and counter picks? We could put a list of the stages, try them all out, and then probably discuss their viability.
 
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D

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I doubt that the For Glory stages will be implemented for offline play. If they are, then it could I could be wrong. It could help some of the viable stages. The good ones are Battlefield, Arena Ferox, Final Destination, and Prism Tower. I think I forgot some, but yeah. We'll find out when the game releases.
 

LancerStaff

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Yeah, it has For Glory stages. But the question is though, will they be playable with friends online, or will they be only playable for said mode?
The only viable stages that Smash 3DS has at the moment are Battlefield, Final Destination, Arena Ferox and the Prism Tower. Unless by some miracle the For Glory stages are playable with friends online, we'll have to see the other stages.
I doubt that the For Glory stages will be implemented for offline play. If they are, then it could I could be wrong. It could help some of the viable stages. The good ones are Battlefield, Arena Ferox, Final Destination, and Prism Tower. I think I forgot some, but yeah. We'll find out when the game releases.
We've seen ATs, Final Smashes, and tons of other items on fG versions of stages, so it's safe to assume we don't need to be playing fG to use them.
 

Soul.

 
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We've seen ATs, Final Smashes, and tons of other items on fG versions of stages, so it's safe to assume we don't need to be playing fG to use them.
Right, we've seen them. They have revealed only a few stages for the 3DS version, so maybe the already mentioned stages aren't the only viable ones. Of course, the only problems with For Glory is that it makes characters like Little Mac have no problems with the other characters and no platforms. Like you said, we don't need to use For Glory stages. As long as there's viable stages, it's gonna be fine.
 

Number1MinunFan

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I think it will be a side tourney at APEX but Im ok with that but we as a community need to preserve it also.
 

LiteralGrill

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For those saying the 3DS will be the same as the Wii U for practicing advanced techniques, already in the demo this has been proven false. There is a way to pivot smash that isn't possible in its entirety on the 3DS version due to the controls. There is actually the possibility that the 3DS AND the Wii U could have console exclusive ATs.

I don't really see a reason for it to take off, once the Wii U version is out there won't be any reason to bring forth the 3DS version at tournaments outside of easier friendlies, there's just no benefit hosting tourneys for the 3DS version over the Wii U version. It's easier to set-up just a few Wii Us, it's easier to stream from a home console, it has Gamecube Controller support, it has the best stages for competitive play thus far, not to mention it also has the better graphics which is nice for the stream. Because of this I think the 3DS version is bound to just be the casual experience or for training yourself when you don't have access to your Wii U, it's simply not going to be a tournament hit.
Due to logistics it may not be possible to allow customization within reason on the Wii U version. The 3DS allowing those to bring their own consoles with their own preset data not needing to be transferred from console to console may make customized tournaments the standard on the 3DS while the Wii U uses standard moves and the like. As a LARGE portion of the scene seems to just wanna ban Miis and only use standard movesets, this could make a compromise so we could have a scene for both. The fact that the two games could have a separate meta game is enough for them both to have tournaments.

How's about how much easier, faster, and better tournaments will be able to be on the 3DS? With Swiss brackets possible, not only do new players (and the pot fillers) get more games and better games to their skill level so they can have close matches then pools allows, but a Swiss Tournament could manage large events WAY faster, even with a cut to a top 8 or so for double elimination. You could host some of our larger tournaments that take an entire day in a matter of hours. Events that go way past when they are supposed to end wont happen. You could host a 50 man event on a weekday night and still be able to get everyone home in time to get sleep for work or school in the morning! Tournaments not limited to weekends is AMAZING. If Magic the Gathering can host events at that size with a game that generally take quite a bit loner then most of our sets on weekdays and have people show, we can do it with Smash 3DS. You can't even get CLOSE to managing that with the Wii U where even a 50 person event can take up a huge portion of the day, players get to play less matches, AND friendlies are more difficult to play.

By the way in terms of streaming, if the Wifi is good enough, someone living thousands of miles away could stream matches for events they could never even drive to especially considering some events with even local connections may have tiny bits of interference to the point where Wifi play may be 100% lag wise for tournament practice and use. . We did things like this with PSASBR, the game with netcode worse then Brawl. A few dedicated streamers could stream tons of 3DS events and cover way more then anyone with console streaming equipment could.


Plus with the WAY larger install base for the 3DS it's not going to be hard to find someone to play smash with. There will be enough folks ESPECIALLY if we reach out to newcomers and bring new competitors into the scene to easily support smash 3DS.

All it takes are people to support it. Brawl isn't dieing because of game mechanics or boredom with the game, it's dieing because there is no one dedicated to hosting it, almost no one ever streaming it, and no one willing to work for it. Even Smash 64 has more streams and dedicated folks then Brawl! Melee is exploding because of the huge dedicated fan base that's constantly driving it forward. If there are those willing to stand behind it and work to make it happen the 3DS WILL have a scene to rival and possibly even eclipse the Wii U.

I know I'm one of those folks. I put the money in to be able to stream the game, I'm making a website that will have tools to help those hosting events online. I'm working with a group to create DataKae, a data collection system for smash events so our rulesets and knowledge of the game will be better then ever before. People on here have asked for a way to have clans, I'm willing to work to make a great system for it and provide it. I'll be hosting and streaming online events every week so people have a place to play. I'm just ONE PERSON. Imagine if even a few more people jumped in and helped!

The only thing stopping the 3DS from having a competitive scene are the people who love smash who want to say it doesn't have a chance before it even gets rolling. Every time someone bashes the 3DS and says it's not worth even trying for you are just driving away potential people from the smash scene. Stop it. You'll do to the 3DS what Melee players did to Brawl. It's already happening, so why not nip it in the bud and accept that both version deserve space and can have phenomenal scenes?

Wall of text, but worth reading for sure.

Anyways in terms of stages there is a legality speculation thread. I'll bump it up and tag some of you folks in it so we can talk in the right place. Or you can always come over to the 3DSA, we'll be glad to discuss it!
 

LancerStaff

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For those saying the 3DS will be the same as the Wii U for practicing advanced techniques, already in the demo this has been proven false. There is a way to pivot smash that isn't possible in its entirety on the 3DS version due to the controls. There is actually the possibility that the 3DS AND the Wii U could have console exclusive ATs.



Due to logistics it may not be possible to allow customization within reason on the Wii U version. The 3DS allowing those to bring their own consoles with their own preset data not needing to be transferred from console to console may make customized tournaments the standard on the 3DS while the Wii U uses standard moves and the like. As a LARGE portion of the scene seems to just wanna ban Miis and only use standard movesets, this could make a compromise so we could have a scene for both. The fact that the two games could have a separate meta game is enough for them both to have tournaments.

How's about how much easier, faster, and better tournaments will be able to be on the 3DS? With Swiss brackets possible, not only do new players (and the pot fillers) get more games and better games to their skill level so they can have close matches then pools allows, but a Swiss Tournament could manage large events WAY faster, even with a cut to a top 8 or so for double elimination. You could host some of our larger tournaments that take an entire day in a matter of hours. Events that go way past when they are supposed to end wont happen. You could host a 50 man event on a weekday night and still be able to get everyone home in time to get sleep for work or school in the morning! Tournaments not limited to weekends is AMAZING. If Magic the Gathering can host events at that size with a game that generally take quite a bit loner then most of our sets on weekdays and have people show, we can do it with Smash 3DS. You can't even get CLOSE to managing that with the Wii U where even a 50 person event can take up a huge portion of the day, players get to play less matches, AND friendlies are more difficult to play.

By the way in terms of streaming, if the Wifi is good enough, someone living thousands of miles away could stream matches for events they could never even drive to especially considering some events with even local connections may have tiny bits of interference to the point where Wifi play may be 100% lag wise for tournament practice and use. . We did things like this with PSASBR, the game with netcode worse then Brawl. A few dedicated streamers could stream tons of 3DS events and cover way more then anyone with console streaming equipment could.


Plus with the WAY larger install base for the 3DS it's not going to be hard to find someone to play smash with. There will be enough folks ESPECIALLY if we reach out to newcomers and bring new competitors into the scene to easily support smash 3DS.

All it takes are people to support it. Brawl isn't dieing because of game mechanics or boredom with the game, it's dieing because there is no one dedicated to hosting it, almost no one ever streaming it, and no one willing to work for it. Even Smash 64 has more streams and dedicated folks then Brawl! Melee is exploding because of the huge dedicated fan base that's constantly driving it forward. If there are those willing to stand behind it and work to make it happen the 3DS WILL have a scene to rival and possibly even eclipse the Wii U.

I know I'm one of those folks. I put the money in to be able to stream the game, I'm making a website that will have tools to help those hosting events online. I'm working with a group to create DataKae, a data collection system for smash events so our rulesets and knowledge of the game will be better then ever before. People on here have asked for a way to have clans, I'm willing to work to make a great system for it and provide it. I'll be hosting and streaming online events every week so people have a place to play. I'm just ONE PERSON. Imagine if even a few more people jumped in and helped!

The only thing stopping the 3DS from having a competitive scene are the people who love smash who want to say it doesn't have a chance before it even gets rolling. Every time someone bashes the 3DS and says it's not worth even trying for you are just driving away potential people from the smash scene. Stop it. You'll do to the 3DS what Melee players did to Brawl. It's already happening, so why not nip it in the bud and accept that both version deserve space and can have phenomenal scenes?

Wall of text, but worth reading for sure.

Anyways in terms of stages there is a legality speculation thread. I'll bump it up and tag some of you folks in it so we can talk in the right place. Or you can always come over to the 3DSA, we'll be glad to discuss it!
Sakurai would have to be pretty crazy to not let us use the CPP now that he knows about it.

Other then that, I agree.
 

my ssb tag is kaos

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It's a pretty common fact of competitive gaming (fighters especially) that home consoles are often the version of choice when it comes to the tournament scene as a whole, but even more so with today's latest technology being all about streaming things on the internet be it movies, tv shows, and yes video games too! (Twitch anybody?) Not saying that it's impossible to set up and stream footage of a handheld game, but its more of a pain than its worth most of the time what with first finding a big TV as well as some device that can transfer gameplay from handheld(s) to said TV in crystal clear definition, setting up an outlet that can support enough chargers for said handheld system, and on top of that, finding a way to perfectly stream a competitive match since many people these days are used to quality 720p-1080p footage when it comes to well... anything in general!

With that said, I'm sure the 3DS will find a cozy home here in the "Online Tournaments" section of our forums which needs a injection anyhow to help keep the blood flowing since Brawl tournaments on there are all but dead as of now and from the looks of it, not many people seem to be in the mood to hack their Wii or download software to allow them to keep playing Brawl online or Project M for that matter which I believe needs an emulator if you want to fight other people over the internet. Having played a bit of the 3DS version of Sm4sh at Best Buy, I can honestly say that if you are a smash junkie, the controls should be the least of your problems as I had little issue with moving/jumping around and whooping MegaMan's robot *** as Little Mac on Gerudo Valley ;)
I don't know about anyone else, but I for one will be trying to organize online tournaments for the 3ds. But as for IRL tournaments I just don't see it getting big.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
For those saying the 3DS will be the same as the Wii U for practicing advanced techniques, already in the demo this has been proven false. There is a way to pivot smash that isn't possible in its entirety on the 3DS version due to the controls. There is actually the possibility that the 3DS AND the Wii U could have console exclusive ATs.



Due to logistics it may not be possible to allow customization within reason on the Wii U version. The 3DS allowing those to bring their own consoles with their own preset data not needing to be transferred from console to console may make customized tournaments the standard on the 3DS while the Wii U uses standard moves and the like. As a LARGE portion of the scene seems to just wanna ban Miis and only use standard movesets, this could make a compromise so we could have a scene for both. The fact that the two games could have a separate meta game is enough for them both to have tournaments.

How's about how much easier, faster, and better tournaments will be able to be on the 3DS? With Swiss brackets possible, not only do new players (and the pot fillers) get more games and better games to their skill level so they can have close matches then pools allows, but a Swiss Tournament could manage large events WAY faster, even with a cut to a top 8 or so for double elimination. You could host some of our larger tournaments that take an entire day in a matter of hours. Events that go way past when they are supposed to end wont happen. You could host a 50 man event on a weekday night and still be able to get everyone home in time to get sleep for work or school in the morning! Tournaments not limited to weekends is AMAZING. If Magic the Gathering can host events at that size with a game that generally take quite a bit loner then most of our sets on weekdays and have people show, we can do it with Smash 3DS. You can't even get CLOSE to managing that with the Wii U where even a 50 person event can take up a huge portion of the day, players get to play less matches, AND friendlies are more difficult to play.

By the way in terms of streaming, if the Wifi is good enough, someone living thousands of miles away could stream matches for events they could never even drive to especially considering some events with even local connections may have tiny bits of interference to the point where Wifi play may be 100% lag wise for tournament practice and use. . We did things like this with PSASBR, the game with netcode worse then Brawl. A few dedicated streamers could stream tons of 3DS events and cover way more then anyone with console streaming equipment could.


Plus with the WAY larger install base for the 3DS it's not going to be hard to find someone to play smash with. There will be enough folks ESPECIALLY if we reach out to newcomers and bring new competitors into the scene to easily support smash 3DS.

All it takes are people to support it. Brawl isn't dieing because of game mechanics or boredom with the game, it's dieing because there is no one dedicated to hosting it, almost no one ever streaming it, and no one willing to work for it. Even Smash 64 has more streams and dedicated folks then Brawl! Melee is exploding because of the huge dedicated fan base that's constantly driving it forward. If there are those willing to stand behind it and work to make it happen the 3DS WILL have a scene to rival and possibly even eclipse the Wii U.

I know I'm one of those folks. I put the money in to be able to stream the game, I'm making a website that will have tools to help those hosting events online. I'm working with a group to create DataKae, a data collection system for smash events so our rulesets and knowledge of the game will be better then ever before. People on here have asked for a way to have clans, I'm willing to work to make a great system for it and provide it. I'll be hosting and streaming online events every week so people have a place to play. I'm just ONE PERSON. Imagine if even a few more people jumped in and helped!

The only thing stopping the 3DS from having a competitive scene are the people who love smash who want to say it doesn't have a chance before it even gets rolling. Every time someone bashes the 3DS and says it's not worth even trying for you are just driving away potential people from the smash scene. Stop it. You'll do to the 3DS what Melee players did to Brawl. It's already happening, so why not nip it in the bud and accept that both version deserve space and can have phenomenal scenes?

Wall of text, but worth reading for sure.

Anyways in terms of stages there is a legality speculation thread. I'll bump it up and tag some of you folks in it so we can talk in the right place. Or you can always come over to the 3DSA, we'll be glad to discuss it!
The 3DS has a larger install base than that of Wii U, and because of that, it'd bring new Smash players to the table. People should stop bashing on the portable version, they didn't even try it out yet, so there's no point. I don't think the 3DS version will have a bad Wi-Fi connection, I mean, thanks to Nintendo Network, it's probably going to be much more stable than that of GameSpy's / WFC Brawl servers. In the end, the 3DS version deserves its own competitive scene. And last but not least, graphics don't make a game. Smash Bros. 64 has bad graphics for a N64 game yet it's still being played and regarded as one of the best games for the system. Once again, both the 3DS version and the Wii U version are made for both casual and hardcore / tourney players. Yes, both, not just the 3DS version. So in all, I agree with all of this, @ LiteralGrill LiteralGrill .
 
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Big-Cat

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I think the 3DS version will serve as the competitive filler until the WiiU version comes out. Of course, this is only for maybe two to three months. Most people will still be getting accustomed to the mechanics and whatnot.

Capps raises up an interesting point that 3DS tournaments can go a lot faster just because it's all on handheld. While this is true, you're also losing a lot of hype in the process. Only a handful will be able to see what's going on in any given match. A console fighter just needs a big enough display like a projector or a sizable tv.

I'll be using the 3DS version as a training mode on the go once the WiiU version comes out. My only issue is the lack of a C-Stick on the 3DS by default.
 

LiteralGrill

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Capps raises up an interesting point that 3DS tournaments can go a lot faster just because it's all on handheld. While this is true, you're also losing a lot of hype in the process. Only a handful will be able to see what's going on in any given match. A console fighter just needs a big enough display like a projector or a sizable tv.
I think a lot of what you mean is people will want to watch the really hype matches yes? With a streaming 3DS you could set up your streaming computer to actually show the stream on a big tv or projector just like normal consoles, it's just a little more work to do it. It would be safer to have a separate computer for this to not stress the CPU so hard, but it could be done easy enough on the same computer.

Plus if you're using Swiss and cutting to a top 8, top 16, or whatnot players will be hype in their own matches during the event, and then will have the downtime to either watch if they want, or play friendlies. I know pools play can sometimes have some interesting matches, but to be honest most people tune in for the top 16 at medium events, MAYBE top 32 at huge ones (minus something insane like EVO with crazy amounts of cool names to watch). I won't say that it doesn't make things a bit different, but I feel like new players and pot fillers especially will like it more since they get WAY more bang for their buck and with more matches they can get better much faster.
 
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Katty Shepherd

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Jun 19, 2014
Messages
538
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Earth
For those saying the 3DS will be the same as the Wii U for practicing advanced techniques, already in the demo this has been proven false. There is a way to pivot smash that isn't possible in its entirety on the 3DS version due to the controls. There is actually the possibility that the 3DS AND the Wii U could have console exclusive ATs.



Due to logistics it may not be possible to allow customization within reason on the Wii U version. The 3DS allowing those to bring their own consoles with their own preset data not needing to be transferred from console to console may make customized tournaments the standard on the 3DS while the Wii U uses standard moves and the like. As a LARGE portion of the scene seems to just wanna ban Miis and only use standard movesets, this could make a compromise so we could have a scene for both. The fact that the two games could have a separate meta game is enough for them both to have tournaments.

How's about how much easier, faster, and better tournaments will be able to be on the 3DS? With Swiss brackets possible, not only do new players (and the pot fillers) get more games and better games to their skill level so they can have close matches then pools allows, but a Swiss Tournament could manage large events WAY faster, even with a cut to a top 8 or so for double elimination. You could host some of our larger tournaments that take an entire day in a matter of hours. Events that go way past when they are supposed to end wont happen. You could host a 50 man event on a weekday night and still be able to get everyone home in time to get sleep for work or school in the morning! Tournaments not limited to weekends is AMAZING. If Magic the Gathering can host events at that size with a game that generally take quite a bit loner then most of our sets on weekdays and have people show, we can do it with Smash 3DS. You can't even get CLOSE to managing that with the Wii U where even a 50 person event can take up a huge portion of the day, players get to play less matches, AND friendlies are more difficult to play.

By the way in terms of streaming, if the Wifi is good enough, someone living thousands of miles away could stream matches for events they could never even drive to especially considering some events with even local connections may have tiny bits of interference to the point where Wifi play may be 100% lag wise for tournament practice and use. . We did things like this with PSASBR, the game with netcode worse then Brawl. A few dedicated streamers could stream tons of 3DS events and cover way more then anyone with console streaming equipment could.


Plus with the WAY larger install base for the 3DS it's not going to be hard to find someone to play smash with. There will be enough folks ESPECIALLY if we reach out to newcomers and bring new competitors into the scene to easily support smash 3DS.

All it takes are people to support it. Brawl isn't dieing because of game mechanics or boredom with the game, it's dieing because there is no one dedicated to hosting it, almost no one ever streaming it, and no one willing to work for it. Even Smash 64 has more streams and dedicated folks then Brawl! Melee is exploding because of the huge dedicated fan base that's constantly driving it forward. If there are those willing to stand behind it and work to make it happen the 3DS WILL have a scene to rival and possibly even eclipse the Wii U.

I know I'm one of those folks. I put the money in to be able to stream the game, I'm making a website that will have tools to help those hosting events online. I'm working with a group to create DataKae, a data collection system for smash events so our rulesets and knowledge of the game will be better then ever before. People on here have asked for a way to have clans, I'm willing to work to make a great system for it and provide it. I'll be hosting and streaming online events every week so people have a place to play. I'm just ONE PERSON. Imagine if even a few more people jumped in and helped!

The only thing stopping the 3DS from having a competitive scene are the people who love smash who want to say it doesn't have a chance before it even gets rolling. Every time someone bashes the 3DS and says it's not worth even trying for you are just driving away potential people from the smash scene. Stop it. You'll do to the 3DS what Melee players did to Brawl. It's already happening, so why not nip it in the bud and accept that both version deserve space and can have phenomenal scenes?

Wall of text, but worth reading for sure.

Anyways in terms of stages there is a legality speculation thread. I'll bump it up and tag some of you folks in it so we can talk in the right place. Or you can always come over to the 3DSA, we'll be glad to discuss it!
What I particularly like about your ideas is that you're mentioning reaching out to new players and those hoping to become competitive.
I've been hoping to go competitive for a while now and I tried to by going online with brawl a while ago, but with the network down that's impossible now, I also don't have the necessary skills to hook it back up on my own. I haven't played melee in years after getting rid of my game cube (mistake number one) and even I did I wouldn't be able to do anything with it. I life in a fairly rural area, the closest place I could find tournaments is in Charlotte which is an hour drive away and in fact the only time I have played competitive is when I went to a con in... Charlotte. The simple fact of the matter is that I'm not willing to drive an hour to play in a tournament that I won't even place decently in.
The next thing is the huge amounts of techs, skills and things like that I would have to learn in order to be able to even compete. I'm learning it bit-by-bit but any tutorials I find usually aren't exactly beginner friendly. As much I hate to admit it the smash community isn't exactly welcoming to newcomers, making the jump from casual to competitive seems almost impossible right now. Particularly with the negative view on casual players so I'm always nervous about saying "what the hell is wavedashing and how do I learn it?"
I think the 3DS version could help with that for reasons you stated above, particularly with the balanced fights online. It'll be easier and faster, not only that I could take my 3DS anywhere with me so I could practice even when I'm traveling. I think that the 3DS could help people like me jump into the community would be a huge incentive to play it. Personally I believe that the 3DS version has all the means to go competitive as the Wii U, no doubt about it. Not only that it could help the community grow. What's not to like?
 

my ssb tag is kaos

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Joined
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Messages
7
Location
Seminole, Oklahoma
What I particularly like about your ideas is that you're mentioning reaching out to new players and those hoping to become competitive.
I've been hoping to go competitive for a while now and I tried to by going online with brawl a while ago, but with the network down that's impossible now, I also don't have the necessary skills to hook it back up on my own. I haven't played melee in years after getting rid of my game cube (mistake number one) and even I did I wouldn't be able to do anything with it. I life in a fairly rural area, the closest place I could find tournaments is in Charlotte which is an hour drive away and in fact the only time I have played competitive is when I went to a con in... Charlotte. The simple fact of the matter is that I'm not willing to drive an hour to play in a tournament that I won't even place decently in.
The next thing is the huge amounts of techs, skills and things like that I would have to learn in order to be able to even compete. I'm learning it bit-by-bit but any tutorials I find usually aren't exactly beginner friendly. As much I hate to admit it the smash community isn't exactly welcoming to newcomers, making the jump from casual to competitive seems almost impossible right now. Particularly with the negative view on casual players so I'm always nervous about saying "what the hell is wavedashing and how do I learn it?"
I think the 3DS version could help with that for reasons you stated above, particularly with the balanced fights online. It'll be easier and faster, not only that I could take my 3DS anywhere with me so I could practice even when I'm traveling. I think that the 3DS could help people like me jump into the community would be a huge incentive to play it. Personally I believe that the 3DS version has all the means to go competitive as the Wii U, no doubt about it. Not only that it could help the community grow. What's not to like?
I fall into the same category as katty shepherd. Only I've never even been to a con, because I live in.... Rural Oklahoma. That's why I'm so excited about smash 3d. The fact that there will be more online tournaments, means that more people like me and katty shepherd will be able to play competitively. Because No one hosts smash tournaments in Oklahoma. No One.
 
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Picture this, you're waiting in line for your turn in a Smash tournament, this would be a perfect way to bide your time and play with other Smashers while you wait. It gives the opportunity to practice. :)
 

Big-Cat

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I think a lot of what you mean is people will want to watch the really hype matches yes? With a streaming 3DS you could set up your streaming computer to actually show the stream on a big tv or projector just like normal consoles, it's just a little more work to do it. It would be safer to have a separate computer for this to not stress the CPU so hard, but it could be done easy enough on the same computer.

Plus if you're using Swiss and cutting to a top 8, top 16, or whatnot players will be hype in their own matches during the event, and then will have the downtime to either watch if they want, or play friendlies. I know pools play can sometimes have some interesting matches, but to be honest most people tune in for the top 16 at medium events, MAYBE top 32 at huge ones (minus something insane like EVO with crazy amounts of cool names to watch). I won't say that it doesn't make things a bit different, but I feel like new players and pot fillers especially will like it more since they get WAY more bang for their buck and with more matches they can get better much faster.
Not everyone will have the resources to stream from a 3DS. A console still has the advantage in that it's far easier to have a big display.

The 3DS will definitely be good for casual matches but I don't think it'd be good for tournaments. Sure more done in less time but time is not always an issue with tournaments. You just gotta keep moving during the tournament.
 

Katty Shepherd

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I fall into the same category as katty shepherd. Only I've never even been to a con, because I live in.... Rural Oklahoma. That's why I'm so excited about smash 3d. The fact that there will be more online tournaments, means that more people like me and katty shepherd will be able to play competitively. Because No one hosts smash tournaments in Oklahoma. No One.
Well no one hosts smash tournaments in Piedmont North Carolina either, aren't we a pair. It's why I am so hyped for the 3DS.
 
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