Combating Roll Spam, Approaching Your Opponent, etc.

[Heart of Ice]

I originally wanted to put this in the faq thread, but this is too broad of a topic for it.

Roll spammimg is super annoying and it's obnoxiously fast (WTF sack of rye plz nerf!) in this game and it's even worse online!

So anyways, how do you combat rolls? I've tried pivot grabs, but I've never once landed one.

Another noteworthy and broad question would be "How to approach an opponent?" . We've obviously have run to shield, Short hop aerials, using a dash attack, but are there more ways?

Also, one last question when should I use spotdodges? I only really use them if my opponent is getting uncomfortably grabby or if I whiffed an attack.

 

[tr3v]

Down smashes are generally a good way to combat rolls, as most of the time they have a hitbox on both sides. Approaching really depends on the character. For example, I main Pikachu. One of my favorite approaches is pressure with thunderbolt, if they shield, grab them, and if they don't use short hop nair or fair or full hop dair. Do what your doing with dodges plus one more thing. Spot dodges are good if you predict an attack and want to follow up with a grab or attack. It is used to avoid shield push that may put you out of range of a follow up.

 

[_Shinta_]

If you are predicting the rolls then another approach as supposed to pivot grabs would be to just run up to where you estimate their roll to finish and do a simple dash attack. Especially in online matches when the opponent resorts to roll spamming often, once you hit them with the dash attack several times in a row in my experience they just stop rolling altogether.

As tr3v said, approaching depends on the character. I see that you have listed Diddy as your main, so if that's the case with him you have many different options to approach. Like your side B command grab, or throwing a banana to grabbing them. Or if you feel like out spamming / annoying a roll spammer corner them to a side of the stage and shoot peanuts. Its obnoxious and they will approach then grab / ho hah them.

 

[BradLeeTee]

I found almost 50% of For Glory players use the same boring backwards roll whenever I come running up to them. It's extremely easy to punish especially if ur a fast character like Diddy just run past them to where they're about to roll and start charging that up smash. If u punish them with this enough they may start mixing it up by rolling the other way, the easiest way to punish this one is a pivot side smash to catch the roll behind u. Once uve got the mind games going on they'll either be to scared to roll or quit out after the match, well based on my experiences. Another common roll we all see is rolling away once they've reached the ledge, once you've got them cornered there they're practically guaranteed to wanna get the hell away from u and start the roll nonsense all over again so u just gotta space urself and charge a down smash preferably.

Forgot to add, it may feel weird and be hard to get used to but sometimes just walking up to ur opponent can be a good approach option. Just know u can do anything while ur walking like a tilt or a jab or just stopping on the spot while ur opponent whiffs an attack. Sadly the effectiveness of this really depends on the character ur using, as a Fox main I can say this a great option since his walking speed is actually faster than many character's dash speed tho I'm not sure if the same can be said about Diddy

 

[LightLV]

walking and smash attacking the read, dash/pivot grab, tackle hitboxes (Raptor Boost, ect).

This is much easier to do offline than online. These habits alone is why I think practicing online is crippling to some players.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

The best ways to punish a roll are either a dsmash or fsmash in the opposite direction if they try to roll behind you, or a dash attack if they try to roll away from you. The effectiveness of the latter option depends on the speed of and distance covered by your opponent's roll, and the speed of your own character. So Robin might have a hard time punishing Little Mac's roll (very fast) or Samus's roll (covers a long distance) with a dash attack, but Sonic won't.

I typically will use a spot dodge after whiffing an attack, especially if my opponent shielded it. People will typically attempt to punish as soon as possible, but thanks to the mechanics in this game, spot dodging/shielding/rolling are very quick, so you can manage to avoid being shield grabbed if you do it immediately. Don't do it too often against a competent player, though, as they might pick up on your habits and punish accordingly.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

There is no good way for most characters to punish intelligent use of the backward roll. Just try to make the most of the fact that you have more stage control on each use; eventually they'll have no more space left to roll backward. If you can set something up as a result, feel free, like charging a Neutral-B for Sheik, or setting up optimal spacing tools, like Villager's Forward-B.

 

[LightLV]

Yeah thinking you can punish every roll is likely to get you beat by people who know how to abuse it.

You just need to have a character that's good at it. And most arent.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Here's some more options to approaching

 

[Purin a.k.a. José]

Down-Smashes are really good... I would recommend Dash Attacks to follow them. Since the character moves while attacking, you will get them the moment they stop. When they spam, I would recommend Long-Range projectiles (e.g. Diddy's Peanut Popgun).

 

[S4C]

There is no good way for most characters to punish intelligent use of the backward roll. Just try to make the most of the fact that you have more stage control on each use; eventually they'll have no more space left to roll backward. If you can set something up as a result, feel free, like charging a Neutral-B for Sheik, or setting up optimal spacing tools, like Villager's Forward-B.

I see. I had an absolute hassle chassing down a roll spammer and it tired me out doing little punishes. But yeah.... I never thought about zoning them when they do.

 

[Winnnn _AKA_Walt Piffney]

Best way to punish rollers? Rosa. Or play them offline lag less (friends) and show them why its stupid. Lol na but usually I find the best way to counter a roller is to start rolling to. Seriously if you can't beat em join em. If their rolling away no big deal. I just wait and grab. Last night after playing for glory for quite some time with minimal lag (great job Nintendo). I found the best way to counter a roll behind attempt is to roll in the same direction and jab. It'll catch the second roll or roll back twice and down smash assuming their rolling towards you. Or fade away SHFF Dair with Ganon so satisfying especially if their playing a big character. You know you've gotten inside a scrubs head when they start just sitting still waiting for you to make a move.

I fought a roy last night who was pretty good. Seemed to have a decent grasp on standard tech but he was way to roll happy. I get that he knew he had no approach options against me except grab going against zss. Any approach from the air or a dash would be punished with a shield grab or anti air of my own and any attempts to run it I'd just stuff with paralyzer so I get it but man he made it to easy. Pretty sure I beat him 8 -10 times in a row. Even shut down the Jiggs.

 

[Trunks159]

Rolls don't have to be punished with tons of reads and such. If the roller is smart, he can use the roll to condition you.

The best way to punish rolls is to not commit too hard. If you just stay out of the range of their roll, they cant hit you. Just respect the option and you won't get punished. If you just go in for a fair, or all you go for are dash grabs, rolls will hurt you.

 

[Winnnn _AKA_Walt Piffney]

Rolls don't have to be punished with tons of reads and such. If the roller is smart, he can use the roll to condition you.

The best way to punish rolls is to not commit too hard. If you just stay out of the range of their roll, they cant hit you. Just respect the option and you won't get punished. If you just go in for a fair, or all you go for are dash grabs, rolls will hurt you.

^^ Best advice in thread? Thread closed?

 

[Ravine]

I take the time to pull a turnip. This makes them apprehensive when rolling, and when they roll once more, they get hit with a turnip.
Sadly, few seem to learn the lesson..

 

[S4C]

^^ Best advice in thread? Thread closed?

I see... I guess that goes back to zoning. Man.... I've been driving myself crazy tyring to punish every single roll.

No more of that.

 

[kendikong]

Ryu side B is great for catching people rolling away. As is Charizard side B, Ness side B, pikachu side B, Wario side B, any move that covers the range of a roll.

Dsmash works well for roll ins, but can be easily punished if they do not catch the bait. For rolling in i like to space myself exactly 1 roll away and mash Ryus utilt, jiggz sing, Bowser Up B, jigz sing, any characters jab combo, or any longlasting multihit move

 

[Dream Cancel]

This was mentioned earlier in the thread, but if someone is rolling away, take the space that they rolled away from. They're giving away their stage control by rolling away so use your better stage control to pressure them when they have their back to the ledge. Once you do that you need to make sure they can't roll back towards the center, so maintain your spacing at about 1 roll-length away and you should be fine.

Or just don't play online unless you have superb connection. I found myself developing bad habits when I played in laggy conditions.

 

[Speed Boost]

Many good options have been mentioned already, but I would like to share a few thoughts as well. I find that the most common roll habits you see are some variation of the following:

1. Opponent throws out an attack an rolls away.

This is very common and easily punished with a dash attack, pivot grab, tilt or smash to catch the end of there roll. I would recommend dash attack to start with.

2. Opponent dashes to a roll behind you or just approaches with multiple rolls and tries to cross you up.

When they get in range dash away to run with their attempted roll behind you then pivot to catch the end of their roll with a punish. You can pivot grab, tilt or smash, but I would recommend pivot Ftilt to start with.

If your character has good aerial mobility and a move with a long lasting hitbox you can do a retreating aerial to catch the end of their roll. Mario's Nair is a good example.

Trying to time a down smash or turn and catch them with a forward smash are also options, but they aren't as safe so I would use them more sparingly.

Rolling is a very strong defensive option in Smash 4 and it is important to be able to punish roll patterns effectively. Many players will notice their opponent is using the same roll patterns but not be able to punish them.

I frequently see FG players complain about roll or projectile "spamming" and I think it's important not to fall into the trap of disregarding a strategy like that. Especially if you aren't able to punish it consistently. If you are being beat by spam they aren't scrubs, you are!

 

[Akira213]

Rolls are pretty fast in this game and a lot of d-smash's might not actually be fast/big enough to actually punish them. Making good use of pivots can be a good way of catching them out if this is the case. If they're being REALLY obvious about it then just bait the roll and punish.

 

[S4C]

Rolls are pretty fast in this game and a lot of d-smash's might not actually be fast/big enough to actually punish them. Making good use of pivots can be a good way of catching them out if this is the case. If they're being REALLY obvious about it then just bait the roll and punish.

Yeah, I was getting lucky even landing a down smash. Lol but the baiting is almost the best way. Or what some guy mentioned is position yourself right outside their roll range. The rest will just happen on its own. Lol

 

[Ravine]

After fighting with them online today, I realized that they're not that hard. Just go close... and that's it. They literally freak out when you go close and they go into a rolling spasm . They can't do much when they are in a rolling frenzy. When you are close, it means they can't charge or get a projectile otherwise they will get hit. So just run around, and, if your character has a long, multi-hit attack, then abuse it.

Some toon link tried to out-spam me, but, really, all I had to do was jump to avoid the projectile and went close to the toon link. These people don't really know how to deal with you if you're close by because I suspect that they thought they can keep you away with a few projectiles, and didn't think what would happen if you're close.

As for moves that are easily abused, just keep away because it becomes very predictable that you should be able to punish them.

I have also experienced the "d-smashes not punishing rolls" thing because some rolls are really fast... Literally someone rolled back and forth while inside my d-smash and didn't get hit.

 

[ReturningFall]

Also, be wary of just trying to smash punish. In my experience (particularly online) it seems most roll-spammers are basically trying to get you to guess if they roll forward or backwards and punish you for guessing wrong. In my experience, they usually also smash a lot. The better ones will mix in shield grabs to try and keep you from just taking their position. Probably because it helps compensate for the lack of precision you get when rolling and has the most damage/knockback. A lot of them also play heavies and basically just want you to guess wrong enough times that they can KO you on luck.

The trick is to just know how to not play their game and set up something favorable to you on their naiveté. This is, of course, character dependent. Fast zoners can just retreat and abuse stage control, some characters can charge projectiles at the opponent's mercy, some characters can do the retreating nair thing Speed Boost mentioned.

As you add damage without taking hits yourself it puts them in a worse and worse position--which means they start rolling even more predictably/doing really hasty things. If you can get them to kill percent when you're at near 0 you can basically do whatever you want as the rest of their punish game is probably not good enough to really make you suffer. It's the close games that are hard and the trick there is to just not lose as rolling doesn't naturally set anything up on it's own.

Alternatively, if you don't really care too much, you can play a heavier character and let the dice fly high