Colorado Smash - MVG Presents: REVELATION 2 - MIDWEST NATIONAL! MVG QUALIFIER! May 16-17

[Steam]

I wish I could be there to see Colorado totally **** itself...

But good stuff DTL. Not using high or top tiers though unless lucario gets moved there next tier list.

 

[CloudChaser071]

I love you Dylan, and I mean that in the most sincerest way.


Post was actually quite informative.


And now a response:
Dylan, you know as well as the other close friends on here (or so I hope you know) that I enjoy seeing friends. Originally, these smashfests were something else other than a brooding ground for aspiring young competitors. In fact, it never was that before. A bit of history with the Friday Night Game Nights that Jo and I lead:

The short version: Sometime in late April, a couple of friends and I hung out at McDonalds. I brought in the systems, we played, and it became a weekly meet up for casual and competitive gamers alike. Sometime I asked Jo to lead it for a few weeks.

The long version: After Rock Band Club (yes, we play rock band with 8+ people each week) on Thursdays, it was ritual for all of us to go down to McDoanlds and hang out/have some bro time together to show how manly we were. One week after RBC in early April, I had all my equipment in the trunk as I usually do. So I thought, "How cool or lame would it be to play SSBB here in McDonalds?" So I set it up. We played, Manager came out and actually smirked about it because they've never seen something like that before happen in their McDonalds. Ever since that week, the casual gaming meet up was made. Weeks went on, and every Thursday we would have a meet up. Jo and Kelilani started to come to the events and practice their game. Summer came, and the meet ups continued. School was about to start for the young high schoolers, and classes were about to begin for us that attended college. I decided to move the meet ups to every Friday to accommodate mostly everyone. Up to this point, the people who started this journey with me stood with me. When classes started, the people who I first started this with left; I'm the only one left of the original 4. I'm suspecting that it was because the meet ups turned from a casual gaming environment to a competitive nature. Around October, my grades started to drop, so I handed off leadership temporarily to Josiah. Never want to give it up, seeing as how it grew from 4 people to having about 9 or so every week, and going up each month. While I'm still a bit disgruntled about bringing equipment every week or so, I know that people appreciate it (or so I hope). The meet ups now are mostly competitive training now, and while I'm trying to get over it, I'm still a bit disgruntled about this.

 

[Dekar173]

I love you Dylan, and I mean that in the most sincerest way.


Post was actually quite informative.


And now a response:
Dylan, you know as well as the other close friends on here (or so I hope you know) that I enjoy seeing friends. Originally, these smashfests were something else other than a brooding ground for aspiring young competitors. In fact, it never was that before. A bit of history with the Friday Night Game Nights that Jo and I lead:

The short version: Sometime in late April, a couple of friends and I hung out at McDonalds. I brought in the systems, we played, and it became a weekly meet up for casual and competitive gamers alike. Sometime I asked Jo to lead it for a few weeks.

The long version: After Rock Band Club (yes, we play rock band with 8+ people each week) on Thursdays, it was ritual for all of us to go down to McDoanlds and hang out/have some bro time together to show how manly we were. One week after RBC in early April, I had all my equipment in the trunk as I usually do. So I thought, "How cool or lame would it be to play SSBB here in McDonalds?" So I set it up. We played, Manager came out and actually smirked about it because they've never seen something like that before happen in their McDonalds. Ever since that week, the casual gaming meet up was made. Weeks went on, and every Thursday we would have a meet up. Jo and Kelilani started to come to the events and practice their game. Summer came, and the meet ups continued. School was about to start for the young high schoolers, and classes were about to begin for us that attended college. I decided to move the meet ups to every Friday to accommodate mostly everyone. Up to this point, the people who started this journey with me stood with me. When classes started, the people who I first started this with left; I'm the only one left of the original 4. I'm suspecting that it was because the meet ups turned from a casual gaming environment to a competitive nature. Around October, my grades started to drop, so I handed off leadership temporarily to Josiah. Never want to give it up, seeing as how it grew from 4 people to having about 9 or so every week, and going up each month. While I'm still a bit disgruntled about bringing equipment every week or so, I know that people appreciate it (or so I hope). The meet ups now are mostly competitive training now, and while I'm trying to get over it, I'm still a bit disgruntled about this.

Do you guys ever/have you ever played Duelist? It's fun as all hell, AND it lets you get better at DI/teching It's practice, AND extreme (FFA) amounts of fun! =P

Smash in general is fun. Smash is awesome. All glory to the hypno-

 

[CloudChaser071]

Do you guys ever/have you ever played Duelist? It's fun as all hell, AND it lets you get better at DI/teching It's practice, AND extreme (FFA) amounts of fun! =P

Smash in general is fun. Smash is awesome. All glory to the hypno-

Please enlighten me

 

[deepseadiva]

Duelist is boring now.

 

[Rizen]

@ Dylan: Smashfests are fun but some people find other things that interest them in CO too. Focus on your individual performance and accept that people are not going to drop their characters and lives for CO's brawl rankings.

PS
DOP's good considering he doesn't have a wii.

 

[Fluxus]

When is EFL?

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Dylan, I'm completely skipping your post tonight, so I can read it and give a proper response in the morning. Same to Dan's. I'm tired, and if I stay up writing a long response, that'll pass, and I'll be up till 7 AM again. =(

But I WILL read+reply, promise. <3

that melee peach right

And Brawl, but yeah. The Melee one.

cool stuff

Alright, well, I found out I WON'T be homeless, so I can prolly help with events from time-to-time.

Is it true that casual play = free? Cuz if that's the case, I'll definitely head over to EFL on Saturday. I just can't afford tourneys/venue/pretty much anything right now.

Yea, Colorado is totally taking EFL.

...maybe I'll will take up pink MK for friendlies? Maybe?

We'll see how this goes.

You really are a Peach player.

@ Dylan: Smashfests are fun but some people find other things that interest them in CO too. Focus on your individual performance and accept that people are not going to drop their characters and lives for CO's brawl rankings.

PS
DOP's good considering he doesn't have a wii.

I'm just throwing out a wild guess, but methinks that Dylan's post is addressing people that actually play the game competitively, and have that fire to prove themselves. But I could be wrong.

 

[iDoLiZeD]

Dedication...to brawl?

 

[demonictoonlink]

More responses coming, but to MES!:

You clearly didn't read/understand the post :/

 

[tsizzinc]

i feel like my game will step up if i visit this place,
http://www.insiderpages.com/b/15239335783
of course i'll have to try a piece of cake... but i'll have to keep my hands off the bread. bummer.

 

[Bees!]

Dylan that was excellent! And yes I agree with you on everything. My only grievance(not with you) Is that I try to get those at our meet-ups to pick up high- to top tier characters. S0apy wants to play Yoshi, daButcher wants to play Bowser, and Z only recently started picking up top tiers again.
It seems to be the problem of Colorado. We have Yoshis , Bowsers, Zeldas, Links, insert X low tier main. But none of them aspire to do anymore. If they can get into top 8, beat ooS players with them, and so on then ya(Chunky for instant.) But if they. Get bottom all the time, Lose 90:10 MUs, and are never improving. (If improving in competitive brawl is what they are after.) Then they (in their favor), lose because everything counters their character. They need to pick up characters that can take that potential as a competitor to new heights. Not trying to dis or hurt peoples feelings. Only that Low Tier characters aren't good to improve your game with. You need to learn certain things in the game. Spacing, prediction, punishing, bating, zoning, ect. All things that you can master with high tier characters. Keep the low tiers for (low tier tourneys, and friendlies) but consider high tiers as well. DYLAN---I will try harder at our weekly smashfests to motivate people to use high tiers.

 

[spiritdragon]

They need to pick up characters that can take that potential as a competitor to new heights. Not trying to dis or hurt peoples feelings. Only that Low Tier characters aren't good to improve your game with. You need to learn certain things in the game. Spacing, prediction, punishing, bating, zoning, ect. All things that you can master with high tier characters. Keep the low tiers for (low tier tourneys, and friendlies) but consider high tiers as well. DYLAN---I will try harder at our weekly smashfests to motivate people to use high tiers.

if anything, playing low tier makes you better at spacing, prediction, punishing, bating, zoning, etc because if you dont then you just lose.

i mean, you need to REALLY be on the ball when playing a low tier but if you're playing a top/high character you can get away with only decent spacing, prediction, zoning, etc

 

[Halfro]

Is it true that casual play = free? Cuz if that's the case, I'll definitely head over to EFL on Saturday. I just can't afford tourneys/venue/pretty much anything right now.

Man, you know its 100% true that we always do free casuals at every tournament. The only drawback is that we have limited resources so, if we start falling behind then, we start using the casual stations for tournament. But yes, casuals have been and always will be, FREE-NINETY NINE.

 

[Tranzworld]

Nice post Dylan, you approached it well, but you just kinda left out the one major thing about Colorado in general.

Name ONE major team from ONE major game that has sponsors or has a true professional/competitive following that has a team/player from Colorado.

I'd count Yang almost taking a set off Ken almost counting.

I'm sure Ferdi was in some top guild in some mmo

If you count my guild being like 35th(?) i think is where we maxed in the world in BC, and if you count me being one of the 40 on the active raiding roster..

and i think there's a sniper from Halo 3 that lives/used to live in Colorado.


That's our major problem, in general, we just don't have much of a competetive scene. Thinking about it, it makes since due to the fact that most people would rather smoke weed (hello boulder) or go outside and do something rather than play, but most of the other 'gamers' we have here are people who think they're the larger than life people who just own at games. There was one kid back when i was in hs that said he was godly at brawl. I 3 stocked him.

With Marth.

My 3rd backup character.

Don't get me wrong, I love all of you to death, and promotion, like tony's starting to plan, will help. But until Colorado in general takes more of an interest in competetive gaming we can only go so far.

Edit: I worded this post like ****, reading through it. I'll post a better reply when i get out of class at noon, i'm still half asleep and haven't showered yet.

 

[UTDZac]

@DTL: Wow!

Do you guys ever/have you ever played Duelist? It's fun as all hell, AND it lets you get better at DI/teching It's practice, AND extreme (FFA) amounts of fun! =P

QFT. I am still undefeated in this game. Somebody better beat me quick before I quit =O

 

[Bees!]

if anything, playing low tier makes you better at spacing, prediction, punishing, bating, zoning, etc because if you dont then you just lose.

i mean, you need to REALLY be on the ball when playing a low tier but if you're playing a top/high character you can get away with only decent spacing, prediction, zoning, etc

You are correct however you also assume that the player is already capable of being on the ball.

Maybe referring to MK yes. But characters like Marth are a totally different story. If you don't space with Marth it will be obvious. And Snake is a good character to learn baiting and stage control, in addition to DI and tech-skills via the Duelist. Also using low tiers against high tiers when still new or not a good player will not help you improve. You are outperformed in both spectrum of your ability and your character's. Maybe if you are a person who understands the concepts of a fighting game yes. But if you are a new player who wants to use low tiers to be different...your improvement will be a gradual and lesser slope under those who learn a character that is good. I still think they should keep low tier characters. But also in the scope of understanding competitive brawl at higher levels they should use something at least B tier as well.

 

[Fino]

Name ONE major team from ONE major game that has sponsors or has a true professional/competitive following that has a team/player from Colorado.

Broncos?

Keeping up with this thread is ridiculous... swf social threads =/= twitter... -_-''


EDIT: no tears for low tiers. Playing one of the worst chars in the game and expecting to get better at a developing game is just ridiculous, selfish, and stupid. Legan and deva play link competitively, they have since the game started. Following metagame from the beginning helps, but you also need deep understanding of the game to play a low tier. Playing a low tier character is, in short, saying "I think I'm so much better than you that I can win with a bad character" trying to play a low tier from the get-go, and expecting to immediately place well is a really scrubby mentality.
I use lower tiered characters in friendlies, cause I think they're fun. But I wouldn't call them tournament viable. I would only use them if I got incredibly good with them, haha (see: olimar - lol)

...

olimar should be low tier ._. he's ****in terrible


EDIT 2: I agree with bess. While playing a lower tier character requires you to space, bait, ect; it requires a completely different level of it. When playing a lower tiered character, you need to be ****ing EXCELLENT at many aspects of the game. Like I said, you can't just walk into a competitive game and expect to do well with a low tier char. Picking up a better character where you have things like "priority" that let you cut a bit of slack (not at top levels of competitive play, but in general/friendlies) helps you get a feel for what other characters can do, how they move, and basic physics of the game. When I picked up metaknight, I learned so many more things that helped my olimar get better. When I play metaknight against people, I force them to play at their absolute best, which favors learning with olimar (since I know more about him and can punish better ect).
In general (for any type of game), learning a higher tier character that you're comfortable playing is good to learn the basics, and even stuff beyond the basics. After you've hit the nail on how to play the game (competitively) then you can start considering lower tier characters
^imo
If you're just playing to have fun and only like 1 character in the game and that's the only reason you play the game and are mad because you can't play him competitively cause he sucks (or get mad when you don't get the results you feel you deserve because of playing a bad char), no johns. That's the worst competitive mentality I've ever heard. lol

EDIT3: starting to read dylan's post. So you know... I don't name search. Fino gets me page results of any stage discussion, tournament page, result shoutout page (ect). Delfino is a ***** <.< I kinda just gave up
Also, I don't really think lol colorado. I was impressed by the improvements made by tim, meno, and bess

 

[Bees!]

Broncos?

Keeping up with this thread is ridiculous... swf social threads =/= twitter... -_-''


EDIT: no tears for low tiers. Playing one of the worst chars in the game and expecting to get better at a developing game is just ridiculous, selfish, and stupid. Legan and deva play link competitively, they have since the game started. Following metagame from the beginning helps, but you also need deep understanding of the game to play a low tier. Playing a low tier character is, in short, saying "I think I'm so much better than you that I can win with a bad character" trying to play a low tier from the get-go, and expecting to immediately place well is a really scrubby mentality.
I use lower tiered characters in friendlies, cause I think they're fun. But I wouldn't call them tournament viable. I would only use them if I got incredibly good with them, haha (see: olimar - lol)

...

olimar should be low tier ._. he's ****in terrible


EDIT 2: I agree with bess. While playing a lower tier character requires you to space, bait, ect; it requires a completely different level of it. When playing a lower tiered character, you need to be ****ing EXCELLENT at many aspects of the game. Like I said, you can't just walk into a competitive game and expect to do well with a low tier char. Picking up a better character where you have things like "priority" that let you cut a bit of slack (not at top levels of competitive play, but in general/friendlies) helps you get a feel for what other characters can do, how they move, and basic physics of the game. When I picked up metaknight, I learned so many more things that helped my olimar get better. When I play metaknight against people, I force them to play at their absolute best, which favors learning with olimar (since I know more about him and can punish better ect).
In general (for any type of game), learning a higher tier character that you're comfortable playing is good to learn the basics, and even stuff beyond the basics. After you've hit the nail on how to play the game (competitively) then you can start considering lower tier characters
^imo
If you're just playing to have fun and only like 1 character in the game and that's the only reason you play the game and are mad because you can't play him competitively cause he sucks (or get mad when you don't get the results you feel you deserve because of playing a bad char), no johns. That's the worst competitive mentality I've ever heard. lol

EDIT3: starting to read dylan's post. So you know... I don't name search. Fino gets me page results of any stage discussion, tournament page, result shoutout page (ect). Delfino is a ***** <.< I kinda just gave up

Agreed entirely. :D And thank you Fino!

 

[Sinz]

@DTL: Wow!



QFT. I am still undefeated in this game. Somebody better beat me quick before I quit =O

I'll take you down!

 

[Fino]

Thanks for posting... now I can stop editing. @.@

Meno. shut, the ****, up. You peach is hella good. You're at the point beyond general experience. I swear your peach **** evolved from supercon to holiday bash - I know this because I know I've gotten hella-lot-better since then, and we're still close to even -_-'' I had to go look up my own advice on the peach MU (I got a dollar at FF ;D) You seemed crazy out of your game when I played that MM with you though =/ maybe next time we can go even again =D
Keep playing peach, but I will say picking up other characters you find fun will make your peach grow even more. You'll learn a few things here and there that will make you a smarter player, but the best benefit... you don't get burned out as often. You rarely see me play olimar in friendlies, you know... unless someone flat out asks me to go olimar <.< People who have taken the game competitively know that sometimes you can just play the game so much that you actually see your self starting to get worse. Playing multiple characters keeps you away from this as you're always playing the game differently, haha idk. Every time I've gotten burned out I've picked up a new char... so you all can guess about how many times I've gotten completely burned out <.< (note sometimes I'll re-pick-up a character I played for fun and start taking them more seriously... so some of these chars count as multiple burnouts lol)
Falcon, DK, Fox, G&W, IC, Jiggs, Kirby, Luigi, Marth, Mk, Pikachu, PT, Rob, wolf, zelda....
fack.. that's a lot more than I thought XD

 

[Moblin]

Why does everyone start ripping on me as soon as I go to sleep?


I totally look more like an octorok than a Moblin




LOL: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=262703


Ganon main finds a potentially harming AT against Ganon, is promptly told to delete the video and thread by other Ganon mains on XAT.


The life of a Ganon main is a hard one

 

[cHiCkEN_TeNdErS]

what was it? thread already got policed

 

[Moblin]

what was it? thread already got policed

I'm not at liberty to tell you that

 

[cHiCkEN_TeNdErS]

yes you are... *holds out a cookie*

 

[DeliciousDave]

Ill be coming this saturday to EFL

 

[Moblin]

OMG OMG OMG
A COOKIE?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!






alright.......









it was about being able to tech Ganon's side B. I only said it because I'm pretty sure no one who reads this will ever be able to replicate it anyway.

 

[Zajice]

Theodore, stop posting at school. Get your work done.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

it was about being able to tech Ganon's side B. I only said it because I'm pretty sure no one who reads this will ever be able to replicate it anyway.

You wanna tech match? If I can't tech it in 5 attempts, then you get another cookie. Or something.

But uhhh... If they tech it, can't you just dair them or something?

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Dylan's post was perfect. I have no reply.

Man, you know its 100% true that we always do free casuals at every tournament. The only drawback is that we have limited resources so, if we start falling behind then, we start using the casual stations for tournament. But yes, casuals have been and always will be, FREE-NINETY NINE.

kk, I will prolly beeee thar. Might be able to bring a setup. Not sure.

stuff

Umm...

Mikezor has been a top-ranked player in so many games it's not even funny.

Ferdi has beaten a LOT of good players in tournament settings.
Kenny, too. If he hasn't beaten them, he's taken matches.
Yang shut GimpyFish's terrible *** Bowser up @ OC3, as well.
I beat a Brandon from SoCal that played Doc @ OC3, and wrecked some hoes in MMs/stuff.
We always beat every other 4corner state except for AZ in Melee (soon to be fixed).
Demitri, one of the top Halo players, lives in CO.
Egg has taken matches/beaten top SC4 players.
Ohrite, I placed 5th@FR, and Tim placed... 7th @ AZ One Two.

We have the competitive drive/skill, we just don't travel.

Buuuuuuut that's also cuz we've been playing for like... 5-6 years now. Bees and TC have shown the desire to really be something, Dylan/Meno+ a few others, too. Dave's definitely got the drive to improve, as is evident by his tournament performances. The biggest problem is that there are a lot of people half-assing their practicing/training.

In Melee, I used to practice technicals at least an hour a day for like... the first two years of learning it. I also forced my cousin to play with me for an hour a day, most days. That's two solid hours of practice. My biggest problem was that I didn't know how to practice with a goal until MUCH later, when I lost the much-needed training partner.

LoVo was even more extreme than me (prolly still is), and I'm pretty sure Ferdi's had his lil bro do stuff like uthrow uair him a billion times.

Obviously, not everyone has this kinda free time nowadays. All the same, if you want to get good, get good. Don't half-***.

I see this a lot with our new Melee players, too. They don't want to put in the time to catch up, and get discouraged when someone who plays a lower tier/has less exp beats them. If you aren't willing to put in EXTENSIVE amounts of energy into your training, you may as well not train at all.

Time=/=energy, btw.

Another HUGE aspect to improving is love of the game. If you don't love what you're doing, you won't improve nearly as fast as you should (if at all). So if you hate Melee, but want Melee player's acceptance, just tell us that it's not your style, and that'll be that. Same goes for Melee>Brawl players. Don't play the game just to get $$$ if you hate it, cuz when someone that loves the game and loves $$$ shows up, you're likely to lose (as much as I hate to admit it).

tl;dr - Brawlers (and new Melee players), you have a decision to make. Either play the game with the intent of improving/learning, or don't. I'm not saying that you'll be kicked outta the comm if you just play for fun, but it really helps to know who wants to learn, and who doesn't.

 

[Rizen]

More responses coming, but to MES!:

You clearly didn't read/understand the post :/

I read it. You don’t understand.

I am literally the only player in the town who cares enough about this game to try to get good. Down in Boulder I have TC and DOP. No DOP barely cares about this game, but TC, TC is the key! Here we have a local player with a scrub-free mindset. He plays a high tier and wants to get good at/likes this game.

Am I not mentioned here because I main a low tier? A scrub does not mean ‘low tier player’. Some people like to play competitively with a serious character disadvantage. Not every good player wants to play top tiers like MK.

CO Smash Scene: Brawl is not at the level of many other states. If a considered-decent player comes from New York, they are bound to do well at one of our tournies. This may result in a Fin0 incident where one player comes from out of state, *****, and then thinks, "lol Colorado". If we go out of state, we have slim chances of making it out of pools at larger tournies or overall perfoming well at all.

One block in city parts of NY has about as many serious players as the entire state of CO. They have better wifi, tourneys, practice opportunities, and players because there’s more people there.

The problem, however, is the seeming lack of focus on the competitive aspect of Brawl. Don't get me wrong, I am happy that a bunch of people can gather to play a fun game, but there is much more that can be reaped from this. Take Soapy, the Yoshi player. I am relatively unfamiliar to him, but he seems nice and plays Yoshi well. Who cares. Living in a scene of under 30 players, who needs a Yoshi? Now here we have this young, aspiring player which such a dead end character. Am I saying make him stop playing Yoshi? No, but I am saying introduce him to high tier secondaries and their metagames.

Low tiers know that we have disadvantages. If the scene of 30 people has a Yoshi, the only person who needs to care is the person who plays Yoshi. You don’t understand why people choose low tiers. A high tier secondary means 90% of the matches will be played with the ‘secondary’.

It is the matches that go on here that should be altered. Two people want to friendly each other. Firstly, they must remember that this should be a learning experience. Try to win, but make sure your greatest goal is LEARNING. This is where the idea of not taking how you do in friendlies seriously. People like Seibrik will MONEY MATCH people, not sandbagging, but playing to learn.

Playing to learn can be done without MMing too. High tiers might be tempted to sandbag but low tiers usually don’t. Usually.

In the same subject of playing to learn is playing multiple HIGH TIERS. For example, Peter mains Snake. In a friendly after going Snake a lot, he should go MK. It doesn't matter how well you can use the character. The character can only do certain things. Peter may be a bad example as his MK is probably competent, but even people who can't play him should, simply to give the other player the experience to see all that character can do. Play my MK than Tim's. Tim's may suck harder than mine, but he'll do SOMETHING better, which is what must be focused on to learn to beat it. My Marth likes to run past shields and pivot grab. Predict that and attack as I come in. Tim's Marth spaces like hell with Fair and uses Dancing blade mind games. Adapt to it. Even if we suck at the characters, playing good characters teaches you what the character can do, not the player.

High tier people just don’t get it. Even though low tiers are worse, we have a sense of accomplishment when we win. We must play well and make the most of any match and overcome weak points in creative ways. We know how bad the odds are, that’s not the point.

Be competitive, as that is what drives our scene, but when you have the chance, help other players out. You'll learn from it just as much as they learn from you.

Thus ends my post. Comments? Questions? TL;DRs?

Competitive play does not drive CO’s smash scene. Stop telling people how to play Brawl.

EDIT: no tears for low tiers. Playing one of the worst chars in the game and expecting to get better at a developing game is just ridiculous, selfish, and stupid.
[...]
Playing a low tier character is, in short, saying "I think I'm so much better than you that I can win with a bad character" trying to play a low tier from the get-go, and expecting to immediately place well is a really scrubby mentality.

Wow, it’s amazing how inaccurate that statement is. We don’t expect to place well. Some people have lives that don’t involve going out of state for smash tourneys. Why do you need to insult people who play videogames, how we want to, for fun?
Tourneys do cater (figuratively) to high tiers, not that it makes much difference. CO has no Norfair, Cornaria, Green Greens, Yoshi’s Island (Melee) counterpicks; all were tourney stages at one point.

If you're just playing to have fun and only like 1 character in the game and that's the only reason you play the game and are mad because you can't play him competitively cause he sucks (or get mad when you don't get the results you feel you deserve because of playing a bad char), no johns. That's the worst competitive mentality I've ever heard. lol

Get a life. I like Link so I play Link.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

MES!, I'm pretty sure DTL's post wasn't aimed at you. You fall under the casual crowd, which is fine and dandy, but really not what we're working to "fix", since casuals will always be satisfied with their performance.

Some people pick low tiers cuz every now and again, they're crazy characters that are really fun (See: Bloshi)
Some pick them cuz the have a hardon for the character (See: LoVo)
Some pick them so that when they lose, they can blame the character instead of their own skill level (See: UmbreonMow's m2 circa 2k4, or Gimpy's Bowser circa anytime)
Some pick them cuz they have brain damage (See: Pretty much any low-tier main who doesn't identify with the above categories)

Yeah, winning with a low tier feels "rewarding", but really, how often will it happen against competent players? Bloshi's prolly got the best Yoshi in the US (or at least, the best I've seen), but he didn't make it out of pools and will have a hell of a hard time ever beating CO's top players in tournament. I, for one, will always go Sheik/Peach against him in tournament if he gives me trouble, allowing me to beat him no matter HOW good he gets with Yoshi. It's discouraging, but it's the truth of low-tiers.

I'm not sure if Brawl low-tiers have it worse or better than Melee, but it seems like they kinda are given the business, too.

So yeah, MES, chill. Dylan's not even really addressing you, since you show up to relatively few events, and play for fun.

Personally, I think everyone should have a High/Top tier main, and sub a lower tier character. I run Jiggz/Doc in Melee, so the only characters that will really be giving me trouble are Sheik+Marth. I might pick up Sheik again just to cover those MUs.

Fact of the matter is that you won't be winning with a low tier vs a good player+character unless:

A) They have NO exp vs your character and aren't playing a character that can just **** whatever weakness puts your char into low tier (Sheik+Peach are SSBM's easymode low tier rapers, I think D3, MK, and Snake all put the hurt on low tiers in SSBB, but I could be wrong. Either way, picking a rapemachine can normally cover this option).

B) They SD and you score some gimmick kills.

C) Your area's metagame is significantly further progressed than your opponent's. For example, if one of us were to go to WY/NM/UT for Melee, we could prolly get away with going lower-tier. I might even be able to go Pika/Roy, unless they just pick Sheik.

D) Your character is actually just misunderstood, and isn't actually low tier. Luigi+Link kinda fall into this category in Melee. They were slotted as low tier for the longest time, because people weren't aware of what they could do+lolsheik. I personally believe that Luigi should be bottom of High tier(or somewhere in high tier).

So yeah, sorry to discourage low-tier mains, but I figured I should clear up some misconceptions. Yeah, a really good low-tier is impressive. Buuuuuuuuut they're almost never threatening, esp if you know they only play that one character. Give me a top-level Yoshi any day over a upper-mid level player that can run Sheik/Fox/Marth.

 

[demonictoonlink]

I stopped reading when I realized that everything you say revolves around, "I play a low tier QQ"

Get this, MES!. I'm a better link than you. Hurts to know that, huh? Ever stop and think, "Hmm...maybe it isn't just that I can only play one character that happens to be bad...Maybe...Just maybe...it's me?". Take the post how you want to, but quit your low tier johns and get good or QQ moar. Your choice.

So I hear Tink vs Link isn't great for Link. Just stop and think though, should you really be getting three stocked with me taking 30% total?

Nevermind, ignore that. You play a low tier so winning is the characters fault.

No really.

edit: Tony ninja'd me.

 

[Sinz]

Just play a character you have a ridiculous amount of fun with and keep him for fun. however, if you are wanting to win choose a character you still have fun with but has better match ups.

 

[iDoLiZeD]

Woah woah woah. Guys...its just brawl.

Edit: Low tier is fine. Look at Lovo, Bloshi and even Tony. The have excellent low tier characters, so until you can say " I can easily beat them"


Then you DO NOT have the right to say " Hey you suck, Get better or GTFO."

Playing Low tier is what drives others. Its more of a challenge.

So my dear friend DTL/ Fino , I know this is brawl, I do not know if there are any really top level playing low tiers. If by any chance there are, until you can easily and continuously **** them. Then you know...


For melee, a example is Taj, he plays mewtwo and is friggn amazing, AXE has the best pikachu I've seen. I'm sure there are plenty more, but those examples show TRUE top players using a low tier.

But you are right, Colorado smash scene ( for brawl anyways) is horrible. Hell, I don't even know if there is a competitive professional brawl scene out there.

As I lack knowledge on the brawl scene and the metagame, it seems to me both Bees ,Fino and DTL are in the right mind to win, and they want to improve.

HOWEVER. There are what...like only 3-4 of you that are truly serious about this game. So how about next time, you guys have a talk among yourselves, instead?

 

[Steam]

The reason I main lucario is because he is lucario so I worked my *** off to get good with him.

I second wolf because his matchups help second lucario and I like his unique playstlye.

I'd be just like the other low tier mains if lucario didn't happen to be good lol. though I wouldn't complain about him sucking.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Just play a character you have a ridiculous amount of fun with and keep him for fun. however, if you are wanting to win choose a character you still have fun with but has better match ups.

This is pretty much spot-on. You can use low-tiers sometimes, but if you want people to actually know who you are & respekk you, you should prolly have a good character secondary. Or at least a character that covers your bad MUs. For Link in Brawl, this would be MK.

Woah woah woah. Guys...its just brawl.

OMFG YOU SHUT THE **** UP YOUR ****ING NOOB OMFG I HATE YOU!!!!jdgudu;lggajlk


Hey, did I leave a large black coat @ your place?

 

[demonictoonlink]

Main any character. I don't really care.

Steam, in your case Lucario and Wolf are both quite good. Neither is outstaning but both MU's should overall help CO.

To anyone who still wants to main a low tier, I never told you not to. Reread my post if you think I flat out said that. I am stating that by not playing high tiers, you are not helping CO smash. That's it.

 

[Fino]

Am I not mentioned here because I main a low tier? A scrub does not mean ‘low tier player’. Some people like to play competitively with a serious character disadvantage. Not every good player wants to play top tiers like MK.

Low tiers know that we have disadvantages. If the scene of 30 people has a Yoshi, the only person who needs to care is the person who plays Yoshi. You don’t understand why people choose low tiers. A high tier secondary means 90% of the matches will be played with the ‘secondary’.

Playing to learn can be done without MMing too. High tiers might be tempted to sandbag but low tiers usually don’t. Usually.

High tier people just don’t get it. Even though low tiers are worse, we have a sense of accomplishment when we win. We must play well and make the most of any match and overcome weak points in creative ways. We know how bad the odds are, that’s not the point.

Wow, it’s amazing how inaccurate that statement is. We don’t expect to place well.

Some people have lives that don’t involve going out of state for smash tourneys.

Why do you need to insult people who play videogames, how we want to, for fun?

Get a life. I like Link so I play Link.

(1) Rarely do people enjoy playing competitively with a "serious character disadvantage" Good players pick good characters because they know those characters have the best shot at winning. Read Sirlin's "play to win" guide. You might understand better
Also, take the words from sanford kelly here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGh4ZU4H5Hk

(2) I play marth and ICs which are higher than oli on the tier list. All serious matches I play are with oli. As for lower tired characters, I choose to play them because they're fun

(3) I always assume someone playing low tier is sandbagging. In-fact, they are sandbagging. When people play a low tier character, they're playing under the mindset that they think they can win with a worse character. lol. They're either sandbagging, or don't hold a competitive mindset. Granted there are few exceptions to this (people who put vast amounts of time and effort and just get how to play that character)

(4) Yup, us high tier character mains have no sense of accomplishment when we win. We're so silly using our range and priority, just whoring out moves for free damage, we don't really care about this game, but you low tier mains get it ;o //sarcasm

(5) If you don't expect to place well, stop bringing up the fact that you're disadvantaged for playing a low tier character, and cry about how high tier people beat you an that their evil for wanting to take an advantage to win.

(6) MES telling me I don't have a life, that's rich. I guess the time I spent with two very fine looking ladies over holiday bash and going skiing means I don't have a life. Neither does going to KU for a med degree in chem as well as having a hella *** fun time with (real) people most days... I really don't have a life. I could go on and on. When is the last time you dated a girl, got some poon, crawled out of your mothers basement? You're telling ME to get a life.... ahahahahaha. I travel OoS cause I love the community, the open roads, traveling, and going cross country visiting places that I would never have the incentive otherwise. You don't know **** about me, and it's funny that this argument always happens. The one where the person who sucks at a game tells the person ****** him that he needs to get a life, and the person ****** the scrub tells him to get better at the game. Guess what bud, I have both over you.

(7) With the exception of this post, my previous post was not insulting... maybe hurtfully truthful, but it wasn't meant to be insulting.

(8) Again with the get a life (read number 6 again and get rocked). I play olimar, and have ever since he was a terrible character when the game came out. I like falcon, so I play falcon. But in my competitive mindset (the one that wins me money anyways) I realize that falcon is terrible. I enjoy winning. I'd also like to note my falcon 2-stocked your link in a friendly set (and falcon is lower on the tears-list than link) ;o


//troll

Get at me, kid is pissin me off - lol

 

[iDoLiZeD]

@ tony

Nope...But I edited my post, you all should read it.