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New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

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Ondo

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So more alt costume ideas for Lyn, because there weren't enough already...

Villains!
Limstella, from Lyn's game:

I think this could also work as a Marth costume, actually.

Also, a recolor of Lyn with black hair and gold eyes, morph-style, would be cool.

Petrine, from Path of Radiance:


While they said alternate costumes don't necessarily have the same restrictions as clone engine characters, I'm not sure if they'll want to use ones from games newer than Brawl, as that may be Smash 4's territory. But if it's not a problem, the Tactician from Awakening would be great:

And a green recolor would work as a reference to the Tactician in Lyn's game:


Another possibility would be a Flynn costume, from Shin Megami Tensei IV (and the upcoming Shin Megami Tensei X Fire Emblem):
 

TRJV

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So more alt costume ideas for Lyn, because there weren't enough already...

Villains!
Limstella, from Lyn's game:

I think this could also work as a Marth costume, actually.

Also, a recolor of Lyn with black hair and gold eyes, morph-style, would be cool.

Petrine, from Path of Radiance:


While they said alternate costumes don't necessarily have the same restrictions as clone engine characters, I'm not sure if they'll want to use ones from games newer than Brawl, as that may be Smash 4's territory. But if it's not a problem, the Tactician from Awakening would be great:

And a green recolor would work as a reference to the Tactician in Lyn's game:


Another possibility would be a Flynn costume, from Shin Megami Tensei IV (and the upcoming Shin Megami Tensei X Fire Emblem):
 

ZeruSlayer

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So more alt costume ideas for Lyn, because there weren't enough already...

Villains!
Limstella, from Lyn's game:

I think this could also work as a Marth costume, actually.

Also, a recolor of Lyn with black hair and gold eyes, morph-style, would be cool.

Petrine, from Path of Radiance:


While they said alternate costumes don't necessarily have the same restrictions as clone engine characters, I'm not sure if they'll want to use ones from games newer than Brawl, as that may be Smash 4's territory. But if it's not a problem, the Tactician from Awakening would be great:

And a green recolor would work as a reference to the Tactician in Lyn's game:


Another possibility would be a Flynn costume, from Shin Megami Tensei IV (and the upcoming Shin Megami Tensei X Fire Emblem):
The only one I like is the first one because it looks lightweight-esque in terms of clothing. Since Lyn boasts her speed in her games I think armor as an alternate costume defeats the purpose of the character so I don't prefer the second one. The tactician clothing doesn't seem like much of a fighting outfit but that's not really a good argument so I'm meh for it. And if I could see a female design for Flynn's costume then I may like it but since I can't imagine one I'm pretty moot at this point.

P.S. Thanks for reminding me about Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem I honestly forgot it existed because I didn't hear anything about it during E3 :p
 
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Book Jacket

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So, as far as the cloning part of the clone engine goes:

I understand that the models for the added characters need to be present in the game already, but what's the deal with cloning? It seems like each added character needs to be based on an existing one, but to what extent?
 

Sour Supreme

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So, as far as the cloning part of the clone engine goes:

I understand that the models for the added characters need to be present in the game already, but what's the deal with cloning? It seems like each added character needs to be based on an existing one, but to what extent?
They start with a base character and then change attributes, visuals, and anything else possible to make the new character unique. Mewtwo started out as a Lucario base, they added mechanics like floating, and also obviously gave him newhit boxes.

The Clone Engine characters are no different than how Luigi is derived from Mario. The models don't need to be in-game, the PMBR makes them. The only dilemma is articles, which can only e edited slightly. While they were able to recolor Lucario's aura spheres into shadow balls for M2, new projectiles are not a possibility.
 
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Banjodorf

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Which makes it especially interesting when trying to pick characters for things like Isaac, Skull Kid and King K. Rool,or even Ray, which would obviously at least have a couple projectiles. Of course, some of these characters have obvious clones, like Ness/Lucas for SK.

Who did we decide works best for Isaac exactly?

And did we want Lyn to have a bow?
 

bksbestbwoy

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OK, so this took a bit longer than ten minutes to get started but I'm a guy of my word. Below you'll find my thoughts on the two characters I most want to see incorporated into one of the five clone slots in Project M as well as my own attempts at creating an exciting move set for both potential entrants. Smash needs a samurai/iaido character and I certainly hope that after this more people will warm up to the idea and see beyond the "sword wielder" nature of both characters. ManlySpirit did a wonderful job in explaining why this particular style of character would make for a wonderful addition to the Smash roster, Project M or not, but now I'll attempt to offer the differing "flavors" this combat design could offer.

Lyn



"Interesting. You utilize erratic movements that prevent anyone from predicting them."
— Kariya Kagetoki, Samurai Champloo
Blinding speed. Relentless aggression. Impeccable acrobatic flair. From her inception in Fire Emblem 7/Blazing Swords until now, Lyn has always represented these three ideals in everything from her character design to her combat style and animations. In accordance to this, I see her as a character who excels in fast paced close-to-mid range action. Lyn would be a character whose visual flair and intensity on the battlefield would be sure to win over the hearts of even the fiercest detractors.

The clone character base for this character as per my design would be Ike. Ike simplifies things by having possession of Quick Draw & Counter which could be further altered in order to give her both the visual flair that defines her character and practicality in the mechanics (specifically Sword Draw and Quick Feet) laid out below. A lot of the inspiration I have for the character comes from her animations in FE7 as well as inspirations from iaido characters from other media, most notably the character of Johnny from the Guilty Gear fighting game series and Yuzuriha from the Under Night In Birth fighting game series.

General Stats: Fast faller, decent to OK jumps, excellent running speed and momentum from jumps.

Jab: Lyn jabs the hilt of her sheathed sword, hooks it back then on the third jab swings her sheathed sword at her opponent in a manner similar to Vergil's standing light attack in Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3.
F-Tilt: Lyn draws her sword and swings it forward similar to the third downward dance of Marth's Dancing Slash before sheathing it again. (Think of Johnny's standing slash button in Guilty Gear.) Unlike Marth's however, this can be angled upward, straight forward or downward.
D-Tilt: Lyn (while in a crouching position) does a low poking kick similar to Hibiki from Capcom vs. SNK 2 (see this video for more). Can be rapid fired.
U-Tilt: Lyn draws her sword in a crescent upward then resheathes it.
F-Smash: (Niidan Battoujutsu) Lyn draws her sword in a standard battoujutsu/iaido manner then follows with a deft second swing using her sheath.
D-Smash: Lyn draws her sword, spins and slashes at the feet of nearby opponents in a blindingly fast manner. (Think Roy's down smash)
U-Smash: Lyn draws her sword from behind herself upward in a large arc.
N-Air: Lyn draws her blade while spinning in a top like motion similar to Chipp's jumping slash attack in Guilty Gear. This can hit multiple times going down.
F-Air: Lyn slashes a straight horizontal arc in front of herself. (Note: Moves referenced in links are not an indication of how I perceive their actual properties. Because she'd give a haircut to a Chinese man from San Francisco with this button. lol) Can be used for carry combos.
B-Air: Lyn does a double slash straight backwards similar in nature to Metaknight's forward air. The last hit has light knock back.
U-Air: Lyn unsheathes her sword downforward before flipping upward in an angled arc slashing at an opponent overhead.
D-Air: Lyn unsheathes her sword and swings in a large crescent overhead motion downward. This move can meteor smash. (See Hibiki's jumping in attack from the first round of this Capcom vs. SNK 2 TAS footage.)

Neutral B: Sword Draw: In a manner similar to Samus' Charge Shot or Donkey Kong's Giant Punch, Lyn calmly poises herself into a sword drawing pose (the first half of the animation) and charges with her body becoming a full shade of jade/emerald. When the animation is completed, Lyn will blink in a manner similar to Samus or DK signifying that she has a draw on hand. When the B button is pressed again on the ground, this sword draw is a powerful nigh instant slash in front of herself with a range of two characters in front of herself (the second half of the animation with no forward movement). When done in the air, this move is a powerful two arc slash that is reminiscent of Johnny's Ensenga special in Guilty Gear. Storing sword draw charges also changes the nature of her other special moves.

Forward B: Quick Feet: Lyn assumes a drawing stance similar to that of Johnny in Guilty Gear whenever he is in his Mist Stance. When in this stance (Holding B after the initial input), Lyn moves about the ground in a series of set distance "teleport dashes" whenever one presses left or right. This maneuver can be cancelled into a neutral stance by releasing B or a shield by pressing L/R. If Lyn has a Sword Draw saved up however, this move instantly cancels into a swing when B is released. One can cancel this by pressing A if they wish to keep the draw saved however. In the air, this move acts in a manner similar to a hybrid of Shiek's Vanish with the horizontal movement of Falco's Phantasm. There is no attack generated during this.

Down B: Counter Stance: An involved and far more multifaceted counter maneuver than either of the other Fire Emblem character counters. When initiated, Lyn will pose shortly (the taunt at the beginning of the animation in that gif). If struck, a player can press a direction to instantly teleport dash a small distance away in said direction. When a Sword Draw is stored however, Lyn will initiate a counter attack respective to the position chosen if the player presses B after picking a direction.

Ex. Using the gif animation highlighted above, if a counter is triggered while she has a sword draw in stock and the player presses up forward (to appear above and behind the opponent) then B, Lyn would teleport above and behind them before dropping with a Helm Breaker that instantly grounds them for tech chases. [Other followups TBD.]

Upward B: Crescent Uppercut: Lyn leaps into the air unsheathing her sword from underneath herself in a wide crescent moon arc similar in nature to the uppercut from Senna in the Big Bang Beat fighting game series. If a sword draw is stocked, Lyn follows the initial attack with a second by reversing her direction and swinging at her opponent slamming them back onto the ground with a second B button press. (See 0:57 of this video.)

Final Smash: Emerald Flash: After an initial animation, Lyn disappears like a flash and darts forward. Anything caught in the flash is paralyzed as Lyn moves with immense speed and generates after image slashes before launching opponents in all directions.



Whereas Lyn's brand of samurai embodies absolute dominance via speed, aggression, zoning with quickly drawn sword swings and acrobatics, Takamaru's style of samurai is more about picking your spots, moment to moment awareness, tactical usage of long range weaponry to navigate through crowds and sword play to make quick work of the closest opposing force. In his game, The Mysterious Murasame Castle, players are challenged by hoards of nimble enemies ranging from ninja foot soldiers to possessed lords with large AoE weaponry to various supernatural phenomena darting all about and generating mass pandemonium. The game demanded the absolute best of your ability to navigate its grid based design while making your way from one zone to the next avoiding or engaging the obstacles it would put in your way. You were given a mixed move set consisting of long ranged projectile items, support items and a short range katana drawn from the sheath should you find an opponent stumbling into your immediate strike zone.
Therefore, the character is envisioned as a "jack of all trades" in a vein similar to Link while skewing more towards offense than the defensive Link. While his blade has noticeably less range than other sword fighters (Katanas are shorter than the European broadswords and rapiers which inspire the swords used by Link and Marth; at most he has Marth's vBrawl range), this is made up for by the speed of his attacks as well as his projectiles. What's more, Takamaru's combat design could also be expanded upon based on his historic inspiration, the edo period samurai, allowing the Project M developers a chance to create a unique swordsman based around the concept of stances based on whether or not his blade is drawn and at the ready or sheathed and "drawn from the hip" for fast lethal blows. As a samurai prodigy, it's not a stretch to believe that Takamaru would be one proficient in a number of styles of eastern swordsmanship ranging from kendo (which relies primarily on thrusts, sweeps and overhead swings from a fully brandished katana) to iaido/battoujutsu (the style of swordplay where the practitioner draws the blade from the sheathe and attacks in one fluid motion before returning the blade to its sheathe). As such, with this move set, the goal is to offer a choice of tactics players can juggle between to remain potent in any number of match ups.

The character base for Takamaru would actually be Link. On top of providing the necessary articles to be referenced for his projectiles, the relationship between the two brother series cannot be understated. Whereas Johnny was the biggest influence on my ideas for Lyn, Baiken, another Guilty Gear character, Bishamon from the Darkstalkers fighting game series, and Kenshin Himura of the Rurouni Kenshin anime series served as the greatest inspirations for my ideas for Takamaru.

Running speed: Between Marth and PM Pit (Closer to Marth)
Wall Jump: Yes
Wall Cling: No
Tether: No
Reflector: Yes (First draw of Forward Smash)
Fall Speed: Fast
Weight Class: Lightweight
Jump heights: Average (think Fox)

Sheathed Sword Stance

Jab: Takamaru jabs the butt of the sword from left to right. Pressing jab again has him do it again from right to left. The third jab has Takamaru draw his sword, thrusting it by the butt of the hilt forward at an opponent's midsection before deftly sheathing it again.
F-Tilt: Takamaru turns his back on an opponent before thrusting his sword forward at them. Think of Baiken's S guard cancel attack from Guilty Gear. This attack can also be angled.
D-Tilt: Takamaru crouches on one knee and sweeps his sheathed blade forward along the ground to hit his opponent's ankle. Can be rapid fired.
U-Tilt: Takamaru flicks/draws his sword hilt out and upward near himself hitting an opponent with the butt of the blade. This launches opponents for juggles. "...I wasn't finished speaking."
F-Smash: Takamaru does a two step Battoujutsu styled draw similar in style to Himura Kenshin's final attack in the Rurouni Kenshin series. The second swing is generated with a second press of the A button.
D-Smash: Takamaru unsheathes his sword and drops on one knee stabbing the ground in front of himself. A quake is then generated in a small area on both sides of himself launching opponents upward somewhat. (Think PM Wario's down smash)
U-Smash: Takamaru does a short hop knee kick that launches upward before drawing his sword in a solid attack arc above himself then sheathing his sword before landing. This attack arc is similar to Meta Knight's Up Smash.
N-Air: Takamaru performs a single hit spinning draw slash from left to right with great force. The momentum of this draw spins Takamaru around allowing the attack to create a ring around himself. (Think of Dante's jumping heavy attack in Marvel vs. Capcom 3 or Roy's N-Air performed by Takamaru unsheathing his sword with the momentum from the draw spinning him around once before he re-sheathes the sword.)
F-Air: Takamaru draws his sword and slashes a straight horizontal arc in front of himself before quickly sheathing his sword. (Note: Moves referenced in links are not an indication of how I perceive their actual distances.) Can be used for carry combos but does not have a lot of active frames.
B-Air: Takamaru performs a somersault in the air slashing from under to behind himself in a manner similar to Baiken's H guard cancel attack from Guilty Gear.
U-Air: Takamaru sweeps his katana above his head after a draw. This is similar in nature to Baiken's Youzansen.
D-Air: (Ryu Tsui Sen) Takamaru does a midair flip looking down for a second before drawing his sword straight downward in a power streaking movement and re-sheathing. The attack has a very small range and active time but is a true spike.
Dash Attack: Takamaru draws his sword, swings, and resheathes it in a complete spin. (Think of Zero's Shippuga from Mega Man X4.)

Neutral B: Draw/Sheathe - Whenever Takamaru presses this button, he either draws his sword from his sheathe for the duration of the stock or until the B button is pressed again, which has him re-sheathe his katana. Takamaru's normals are all changed (the jabs, tilts, aerials and Smash attacks listed in the move set above are all shared with this Takamaru, but upon sheathing his sword, the normals laid out in the move set above become available. You can also cancel his Smash attacks on their ending frames with this maneuver allowing you to switch stances for greater flexibility in the middle of pressure and combo situations.

Drawn Sword Stance:

- Takamaru exchanges attack speed and power for better reach and pokes in this stance
- Takamaru also moves slightly slower traveling with the sword out versus having it sheathed
- Takamaru's projectile game might be a bit muted with the sword out


Jab: Takamaru punches the opponent with the butt of the sword.
F-Tilt: Takamaru stabs his blade outward at about eye level, turning the sword on its flat end, before performing a sweeping horizontal slash from left to right in front of himself. This move can be angled. (Think of a standing version of Bishamon's crouching heavy punch attack in Darkstalkers)
D-Tilt: Takamaru crouches on one knee, stabs his sword forward and swings his sword slashing at an opponent's heels. (Think of Bishamon's crouching heavy punch attack in Darkstalkers)
U-Tilt: (Ryu Sho Sen) Takamaru raises his blade straight out in the air performs a small hop with his empty hand supporting the back of the blade in a manner similar to Ike's u-tilt.
F-Smash: Takamaru assumes a kendo-ka's stance before making a quick step forward swinging his blade over his head and down straight in front of himself.
Down Smash: Takamaru spins in place, slashing the ankle of opponents on both sides.
Up Smash: Takamaru swings his sword from under himself upward in an arc ending the motion with a 30 degree stab into the air.
Neutral Air: Takamaru assumes a hopping pose while extending his blade downward. This move remains active until Takamaru touches the ground. (Sex blade?) (Think of Baiken's jumping heavy slash from Guilty Gear.)
U-Air: Takamaru spins his blade like a propeller in a manner similar to Pit's neutral air attack. Takamaru holds his sword above himself as he does this however. (Think Dante's Prop Shredder attack in Marvel vs Capcom 3 or the Devil May Cry series)
D-Air: Takamaru drops out of the air with a single hit Helm Splitter.
F-Air: Takamaru slashes the air in front of himself horizontally in an X cross shape.
Dash Attack: (Gattotsu) Takamaru in mid run reaches back and stabs his blade forward, his momentum allowing him to slide somewhat.

Forward B: Fireballs - Takamaru can launch will-o-wisp style fireballs that travel straight forward with this move. Their range is limited but they do good stun. Holding B generates a larger wisp made of multiple fireballs that moves forward in a coil motion before exploding and scattering in a cross like pattern. This is in reference to the Rook Shogi piece power up ("Circle of Fate" in the new Virtual Console release) found in his games which allowed players to throw projectiles in all four directions simultaneously. You cannot store this charge (think of Samus' Charge Shot) however one the animation ends Takamaru can dash behind the fully charged projectile (dash cancel the end of the animation).

Downward B: Throwing Knives & Windmill Swords - When the stick is tapped before B is pressed for this move, Takamaru pulls out a single throwing knife. These knives disappear after traveling a certain range after being tossed in a set direction. When the stick is flicked or "smashed" before pressing B, Takamaru pulls out a Windmill Sword projectile. These frisbee like blades travel full screen forward generating a whirling hit box cyclone that pushes people as it damages them.

Holding the B button a set amount of time has Takamaru generate two more of the projectile selected (Knives or Windmill Swords) for a total of three that he will throw all at once. When carrying the max number of projectiles (three), Takamaru throws the projectiles in ways to control greater area of the screen. Throwing knives are thrown in a fan like spread forward (one straight forward in the direction tossed, one diagonally downward and one diagonally upward). This is in reference to the Spread Shot power up from his game. Windmill Swords are thrown in the direction selected as a set stacked on top of one another. This reflects the attributes of the King Shogi piece ("Triple Shot" power up as it's called in the new Virtual Console release) upgrade on his projectiles.

Upward B: Invisibility Scroll: After a short animation of an invisibility scroll unrolling (think of Sentan Hakuja from Bleach; the unfurling scroll could do light contact damage), Takamaru slams his palm down on it and "teleports" a set distance in this state before reappearing. Holding the control stick in a given direction determines the trajectory of this move. When moving along the ground, a small cartoon-like circle shadow gives players a visual cue to track his movement. When used in the air, after disappearing in the initial tuft of smoke, a small scattering of sakura petals help players to tell where he is as he moves through the air. (Think of Fox's Fire Fox or Smash 4 Pit's Wings of Icarus; Takamaru charges then leaps in a direction set by the control stick before becoming invisible a la Shiek's Up B)

Spot Dodge: Takamaru leans to the side hand on his hilt looking attentively at whatever just passed him by.

Air Dodge: Takamaru is wrapped into his invisibility scroll as Sakura petals show where he is headed before the cloak is cast off.

Grab: Takamaru reaches out for the opponent with one hand outstretched.
Pummel: Takamaru jabs the butt end of his katana at the character's midsection.
Forward throw: Takamaru does a turn around back kick hitting the opponent square in their jaw launching them forward.
Back throw: Takamaru performs a turn around sword draw slice after positioning himself behind the opponent's back.
Up throw: Takamaru throws an clay bomb explosive downward that launches the opponent into the air.
Down Throw: Takamaru jumps on top, stomps once (think Kirby's down throw with a single kick down) and jumps off landing on the other side of the now downed opponent.

Final Smash: Inazuma Lightning: After donning the Kabuto Helmet power up (thus appearing in a state of visible intangibility), Takamaru stabs his katana into the air where it is struck by lightning. This burst of lightning is large (think Pikachu's Volt Tackle burst) and can be used three times in total while moving about in this state. During this Final Smash, the Invincibility Theme from Mysterious Murasame Castle plays in the background.

Other Animations:

Knockdown: Takamaru lands face in ground. His feet twitch every now and again similar to his damage animation from the Famicom title.
Broken Shield: Takamaru teeters in place alternating one foot with the other
Crouch: Takamaru sits seiza style with his dominant hand in drawing range of his sword.
Up Taunt: Takamaru draws his blade and swings it twice in a lightning fast manner before posing in the Famicom box art pose
Side Taunt: A small circle shadow appears in front of Takamaru who then looks down. A tanooki appears (with the SMB3 sound effect) before him and the two give each other a nod in approval before the tanooki vanishes again.
Down Taunt: Takamaru seats himself on the ground in seiza style and meditates calmly.
And there you have it. I hope that you all will give this a read, come out thinking a bit differently towards the idea of the two characters and pick a flavor you enjoy between the two.
 
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ZeruSlayer

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OK, so this took a bit longer than ten minutes to get started but I'm a guy of my word. Below you'll find my thoughts on the two characters I most want to see incorporated into one of the five clone slots in Project M as well as my own attempts at creating an exciting move set for both potential entrants. Smash needs a samurai/iaido character and I certainly hope that after this more people will warm up to the idea and see beyond the "sword wielder" nature of both characters. ManlySpirit did a wonderful job in explaining why this particular style of character would make for a wonderful addition to the Smash roster, Project M or not, but now I'll attempt to offer the differing "flavors" this combat design could offer.



And there you have it. I hope that you all will give this a read, come out thinking a bit differently towards the idea of the two characters and pick a flavor you enjoy between the two.
Very well done. Lyn's F-air seems a little bit on the weak side unless the sword tracks the closest opponent and tilts accordingly like Mario's F-air but other than that this moveset makes Lyn a unique character, does her justice, and doesn't make her seem overpowered compared to the current roster (maybe the N- air looking like a Brawl MetaKnight neutral b is a downside :ohwell:). I don't know much about Takemaru so I can't exactly critique anything but the moveset is very detailed and nothing seemed out of the ordinary. I wish I could give your post 10 likes but you have to settle for one :p.
 
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CaptainKirby

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1. King K. Rool
2. Ridley
3. Waluigi
4. Black Shadow/Ganondorf
5. Ray MK III

-1 Lyn and Clause/Masked Man (I feel we don't need any more representation from both of these series.)
 

Sour Supreme

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1. King K. Rool
2. Ridley
3. Waluigi
4. Black Shadow/Ganondorf
5. Ray MK III

-1 Lyn and Clause/Masked Man (I feel we don't need any more representation from both of these series.)
I have to ask. If you don't feel Mother/FE need more reps, why do you feel Waluigi can add onto the Mario representation?
 

CaptainKirby

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I have to ask. If you don't feel Mother/FE need more reps, why do you feel Waluigi can add onto the Mario representation?
Because Mario is Nintendo's biggest franchise, and I've liked what I've seen from Marioking64's PSA of him.
 

ChronoBound

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All the Fire Emblem alt talk is getting me hype so

DAMMIT PMBR CONFIRM ROY'S LEIF ALT.
As a really big fan of Thracia 776 I approve of this, but I think that Roy's alternate costume is either going to be his FE13 re-design or him wearing Eliwood's outfit.

On a sidenote, I recently bought a translated reproduction cartridge of Mother 3, and finally got the chance to play the sequel to one of my favorite games of all time after waiting more than 15 years (I still remember reading about Mother 3/EarthBound 64 in 1997 in Nintendo Power). Having complete Mother 3, I can say it stands its own with EarthBound. Easily the best RPG for the GBA, and maybe even the best game overall for that console.

The GBA, despite Nintendo aggressively trying to cut its life short, had probably the best library of any Nintendo handheld.

Hopefully, the two series that were prominent on that console (Golden Sun and Advance Wars), will finally be granted a playable character with Project M, since it won't happen with Smash 4.

I am also now even more saddened about Lucas's not returning for Smash 4, after now finally having played his game. He is easily a better character than Ness, and one of the few Nintendo characters in general that undergoes character development. I really like what the Project M team has done with him to further distinguish him from Ness.
 

Giygacoal

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So, as far as the cloning part of the clone engine goes:

I understand that the models for the added characters need to be present in the game already, but what's the deal with cloning? It seems like each added character needs to be based on an existing one, but to what extent?
If by model you mean "3d model" then no. The character simply has to be adequately referenced in Brawl, which implies the character is already licensed to be in the game. This could be an NPC, a sticker, or a trophy.

Now if I understand correctly, Brawl modding doesn't make it possible to just add a character from scratch into the game, so the clone engine makes it possible to create an additional copy of a Brawl character that can be modified independently from the character slot designed for Project M (so Brawl Marth could be used as a source for both Project M Marth and Project M Roy). There are a few other technical limitations; articles such as projectiles and (if I'm not mistaken) other idiosyncratic things like homing attack properties and command grabs can only be modified, not added, so it's important to choose a base character that already fits the properties. Lucario was chosen as Mewtwo's base because both characters have projectiles and command grabs. I assume the body shape helps as well.
 

Raijinken

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Fair enough. Thanks for voting.
It's also arguably fair to tack him onto Wario's logo for a bit of differentiation.

I agree, though. Just being Nintendo's biggest franchise doesn't justify giving them about a quarter of the total roster (they've got more than enough for their own fighting game if we really wanted that). Part of Smash has always been drawing attention to less-loved franchises like Fire Emblem and Mother.
 

ChronoBound

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I really just want to see Ridley, Isaac, and Sami. I don't care about the last two slots (as long as it doesn't go to something really stupid like a second Sonic character).

While Ridley and Isaac have a lot of support for Project M (the latter I think is basically a shoe-in), Sami definitely needs a lot more support than she is currently getting.

Ridley's support is going to explode the moment Sakurai busts out Stage Hazardley for Smash 4 (which is going to happen some time in August). I think at that point the team might seriously consider Ridley.

Sami I think would be a relatively easy choice to help represent Advance Wars, and also help bring a lot of interest to the franchise (she is pretty distinctive relative to the rest of the Smash Bros. cast).

She also can adjust better to 3D than many here think:


She would basically be the Project M equivalent of Marth/Roy. A cool looking character that many are not familiar with that would explore an entirely new universe to Smash Bros.
 

NisforSmash

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I really just want to see Ridley, Isaac, and Sami. I don't care about the last two slots (as long as it doesn't go to something really stupid like a second Sonic character).

While Ridley and Isaac have a lot of support for Project M (the latter I think is basically a shoe-in), Sami definitely needs a lot more support than she is currently getting.

Ridley's support is going to explode the moment Sakurai busts out Stage Hazardley for Smash 4 (which is going to happen some time in August). I think at that point the team might seriously consider Ridley.

Sami I think would be a relatively easy choice to help represent Advance Wars, and also help bring a lot of interest to the franchise (she is pretty distinctive relative to the rest of the Smash Bros. cast).

She also can adjust better to 3D than many here think:


She would basically be the Project M equivalent of Marth/Roy. A cool looking character that many are not familiar with that would explore an entirely new universe to Smash Bros.
Intentional DP. Apologies in advance.

I have to say that model looks incredible. Did you make it or is it apart of some leak?
 

Vigilante

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One thing about characters is that we are severely short-handed in terms of quality animators. A character takes an insane amount of time to make, and people like Haloedhero are actuelly real heroes to this project. So honestly, the best way to get more high quality characters is to get a smuch help as possible from top-tier animators (Halo's a Fox, he barrel rolls all the time).

But yeah, if you're good at animating, apply. if you know someone who is good at animating, have them apply. It would definitely speed things up... and let our current animators catch a break, lol.
 

UltimateWario

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So, here's an idea.

They should get the guy who did this --


-- to do newcomer trailers for the new characters. He's already involved in a Smash project (Harmony of Heroes, I'm sure you're all privy to it), so I'm sure he'd be on board.
 

Shin F.

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So, here's an idea.

They should get the guy who did this --


-- to do newcomer trailers for the new characters. He's already involved in a Smash project (Harmony of Heroes, I'm sure you're all privy to it), so I'm sure he'd be on board.
I'm sure they'll use the same style as the Mewtwo and Roy trailers, but I'd love to see this guy's take as well. He's pretty badass. Harmony of Heroes is turning out really awesome from the previews we've seen, and the video on them is amazing. Kinda wish I'd seen more of his stuff sooner.
 
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Vigilante

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Well, if I may speak form a personal standpoint, I am personally a big fan of both Golden Sun and Fire Emblem. I think I played Golden Sun and Golden Sun: The Lost Age, 100% complete at least 4 times. As fior Fire emblem... I love how it takes out much of the waiting associated with strategy games. When you play FFTactics, you sort of feel in slowmo in comparison.

Nevertheless, Isaac being able to use a wide range of tools would be interesting. He would probably be on the hard side to make though. Lyndis was mentioned several times and is more special for North American audiences as she was basically the first lord most people played as. The Lief costume is an interesting idea that I've also had before. Roy technically took Lief's spot in Melee, so it could be a cool reference. I also saw lots of Hector request, so I'm thinking most of you really love FE7.

Sami, fun idea. Advance Wars hasn't been represented at all in Smash yet.

Takamaru is a cool idea as well, but if we did either him or Lyn, I feel like the style may become redundant. Mind you, I don't make the final calls.
 

ChronoBound

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Well, if I may speak form a personal standpoint, I am personally a big fan of both Golden Sun and Fire Emblem. I think I played Golden Sun and Golden Sun: The Lost Age, 100% complete at least 4 times. As fior Fire emblem... I love how it takes out much of the waiting associated with strategy games. When you play FFTactics, you sort of feel in slowmo in comparison.

Nevertheless, Isaac being able to use a wide range of tools would be interesting. He would probably be on the hard side to make though. Lyndis was mentioned several times and is more special for North American audiences as she was basically the first lord most people played as. The Lief costume is an interesting idea that I've also had before. Roy technically took Lief's spot in Melee, so it could be a cool reference. I also saw lots of Hector request, so I'm thinking most of you really love FE7.

Sami, fun idea. Advance Wars hasn't been represented at all in Smash yet.

Takamaru is a cool idea as well, but if we did either him or Lyn, I feel like the style may become redundant. Mind you, I don't make the final calls.
Golden Sun and Advance Wars will basically be the only two major Nintendo franchises lacking playable characters after Smash 4's release.

Smash 4's newcomer selection was pretty much focused on giving Nintendo's remaining major franchises finally playable representation in Smash Bros.
- Animal Crossing (Villager)
- Mii miscellaneous games (Mii Fighters)
- Wii Fit (Wii Fit Trainer)
- Punch-Out (Little Mac)
- Xenoblade (Shulk)
- Rhythm Heaven (Chorus Men)

With the last two, they technically have not been unveiled yet, but they are practically confirmed since they were leaked by the same person that leaked all the other newcomers.

Lyn might also be a breath of fresh air considering how Smash 4 is going to have nothing but blue-haired swordsmen represent Fire Emblem (Chrom is going to be FE's newcomer for that game). The only concern is that FE would be over-represented on the Project M roster.

As for a Leaf costume for Roy, that would be really cool (though an Eliwood costume still needs to happen). Leaf is very similar to Roy as a lord, and FE5 and FE6 are respectively the most difficult Fire Emblem games. However, as I said before, I really love Thracia 776 (my avatar is from the intro to that game), so it would be nice to finally see that game referenced in Smash Bros.

As to your comment on Advance Wars, it definitely needs representation. It began in 1988, and has had six installments developed by Intelligent Systems alone. It also complements Golden Sun quite well (another popular series mostly associated with the GBA). Sami I think would offer the most appeal of any AW character, while also would be the easiest character from that series to implement (Snake clone).

Isaac of course needs no introduction. Aside from Ridley, Isaac would bring the most hype of any potential newcomer for Project M.
 
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Sour Supreme

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The Lief costume is an interesting idea that I've also had before. Roy technically took Lief's spot in Melee, so it could be a cool reference.

It's nice to see a PMBR actually comment here. They don't generally, although I haven't been here for the thread's lifespan. Maybe BRoomers are just scared of salt.
 
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ChronoBound

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I don't mind the Black Shadow/Ganon trade off idea. I can't see the PMBR actually doing it though.
It would be a lot easier just to do a stance change for Ganondorf that way both parties win. I think there is a hack that already shows this is possible.
 

Exodo

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I don't mind the Black Shadow/Ganon trade off idea. I can't see the PMBR actually doing it though.
I would rather seing the trade between them and give ganondorf a moveset true to himself, but i dont see this happening, since there are many people that like ganondorf just the way he is. But if the hange ever happens they should make an awesome video saying something like: "the demon king reborns and a new evil is born." Yeah, me and my hopeless dreams.:urg:
 

Spleenhunter

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Not only that, but a 12 page moveset BASED ON NINIAN.

Anyone who could write that without any form of filler has my highest praise.
All of Ninian's attacking moves would be stepping on people's toes. Specials would be putting on rings.

Actually it would be kind of cool to have support characters made just for doubles. These characters would have special moves to buff allies. Could be an interesting doubles metagame development.
 

Raijinken

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I would rather seing the trade between them and give ganondorf a moveset true to himself, but i dont see this happening, since there are many people that like ganondorf just the way he is. But if the hange ever happens they should make an awesome video saying something like: "the demon king reborns and a new evil is born." Yeah, me and my hopeless dreams.:urg:
If they like him as he is, then they're welcome to like Black Shadow as he would be, or they could like Ganondorf for finally being a Zelda-series representative. :ohwell:

All of Ninian's attacking moves would be stepping on people's toes. Specials would be putting on rings.

Actually it would be kind of cool to have support characters made just for doubles. These characters would have special moves to buff allies. Could be an interesting doubles metagame development.
I would jump so quickly on maining a FE-based joke character. Especially Ninian.
 
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Exodo

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All of Ninian's attacking moves would be stepping on people's toes. Specials would be putting on rings.

Actually it would be kind of cool to have support characters made just for doubles. These characters would have special moves to buff allies. Could be an interesting doubles metagame development.
If we are gonna talk about support character i would say that, kirby would be the best one yet, also zelda.
 
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