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New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

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Bleck

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Who even is that first thing. Some kind of, hentai porno? ? ? You crazy kids.
 
Halfhead

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I believe the desire for Pichu is motivated by the compulsion to make this game "complete," correct? While I agree that the game is just SO close to being complete and Pichu would, in fact, push it over that line and make it be complete, I think there are other options.

Perhaps it is wrog to think that the only way to remedy the exclusion of Pichu is to add Pichu as a playable character. There are other ways this problem can be dealt with.

Proposed option 1) Add Pichu as a Pokéball option and leave it at that. This way Pichu is still "in the game." Not a perfect solution, of course. Pichu mains (if that is even a thing) might be "insulted," but they will not be able to dispute the fact that Pichu is, in fact, present where he was not in Brawl.
Insultingness: 65%
Completeness: 80%
Game Balance: unchanged as no character is added.

Proposed option 2) Add Pichu as a playable character. This would make the game complete and people would be happy. The problem is that Pichu is inherently terrible and might degrade the balance Project M has built up.
Insultingness: 30%
Completeness: 100%
Game Balance: worse. Pichu would be the only unusable character in an otherwise fantastic roster.

Proposed option 3) Add Pichu as a Pokéball character, but don't stop there! Add a new character that would be what Pichu in Project M would be without it actually being Pichu. What I mean here is that Pichu would never be put into Project M the way he is in Melee so maybe he would get buffs that change his gameplay to a point where it no longer feels like Pichu. Sure it's still going to be a smaller Pikachu clone with electrical attacks. Everything Pichu did better than Pikachu in Melee could be implimented here. Pichu is faster, so this thing will be too. Pichu could wall-jump, so thing thing will be too. Pichu shares all of its specials with Pikachu, this thing COULD, but I would be happier if there was some decloning. The only difference is that self-damage would be removed for balance and some other gimmick would be put in place.

I feel that (and this is just my opinion) Pichu just isn't Pichu without self-damage, so this new-Pichu has to be a different character. Old Pichu mains will still be able to pick up their character except that this character is way better. I'm not sure what character it would be. Perhaps one of the Pikachu clones (Plusle, Minun, Pachirisu, Emolga, Dedenne) or maybe a character from a completely different franchise that would fit the bill. I'm not sure what it would be, but I think it's something to consider.
Insultingness: 50%
Completeness: 90%
Game balance: improved. New-Pichu, whatever it is, would be a new, usable character.

What do you think?
 
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Shin F.

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Halfhead said:
The problem is that Pichu is inherently terrible and might degrade the balance Project M has built up.
Game Balance: worse. Pichu would be the only unusable character in an otherwise fantastic roster.
Click to expand...
Totally false. Pichu is bottom tier, but so were Roy and Mewtwo. Nothing about him, provided he was done correctly, would disrupt the balance of the game. Pichu is not inherently terrible. At his core, he's a clone of Pikachu, and if you hadn't noticed, Pikachu is really ****ing good. With some reworking, Pichu can also be really ****ing good, as shown by other low-tier characters like Mewtwo getting much better.
Halfhead said:
Proposed option 3) Add Pichu as a Pokéball character, but don't stop there! Add a new character that would be what Pichu in Project M would be without it actually being Pichu. What I mean here is that Pichu would never be put into Project M the way he is in Melee so maybe he would get buffs that change his gameplay to a point where it no longer feels like Pichu. Sure it's still going to be a smaller Pikachu clone with electrical attacks. Everything Pichu did better than Pikachu in Melee could be implimented here. Pichu is faster, so this thing will be too. Pichu could wall-jump, so thing thing will be too. Pichu shares all of its specials with Pikachu, this thing COULD, but I would be happier if there was some decloning. The only difference is that self-damage would be removed for balance and some other gimmick would be put in place.
Click to expand...
Why do that when you can just do the exact same thing and make it actually be Pichu? You would fully satisfy his fans while not damaging the meta-game. This literally sounds like an idea made to deliberately get rid of Pichu while retaining his playstyle. In saying the people who want Pichu could still have his playstyle, just not him, you seem to be forgetting that many of them want him because they like the character, not because of a playstyle. It's the same reason Ganon mains wouldn't want his moveset given to Black Shadow.
 
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Solbliminal

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EdgeTheLucas said:
lol aside, that's DeMille from Tomato Adventure, a Japan-only GBA game. He'd be a pretty cool character imho.
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This. Tomato Adventure is what gave birth to the Mario and Luigi RPG handheld titles. The game is very Earthbound meets Mario in terms of characters. DeMille collects a bunch of attack gear called Gimmicks, which are weaponized toys. If anything, DeMille is very much like Shin's description of Ninten, only he has a lot more weapons to work with.

 
Saito

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Halfhead said:
I believe the desire for Pichu is motivated by the compulsion to make this game "complete," correct? While I agree that the game is just SO close to being complete and Pichu would, in fact, push it over that line and make it be complete, I think there are other options.

Perhaps it is wrog to think that the only way to remedy the exclusion of Pichu is to add Pichu as a playable character. There are other ways this problem can be dealt with.
Click to expand...
Please be joking.

Project M is already complete as far as characters go.

Now they are looking at potential characters to be added into project M. I don't know what those other people think about Pichu but I've definitely got a different opinion.

There's no way they would just throw pichu in without buffing him significantly to be competitively viable. I see the PMBR being able to bring back the self damage feature as well, but to be honest I don't really care if he doesn't have it.

It's not like that was the crowning feature of Pichu but for some reason everyone seems to want him to kill himself so if he does that in exchange for extremely solid killing power I'd be down.
 
MLGF

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Oh look, Pichu wars.
A-****ing-gain.

Seriously guys, it's understood.
Some people want Pichu and other people don't. It's been dragged on forever and the fact it still i brought up gives me aids.

And I just want to say one thing to a Pichu supporter who says that he's more important because he was a "main" for some Melee players.
This is a fighting game, generally within patches and new installments people switch mains and jump to new characters. Saying Pichu deserves to be playable because he had people who used him is a dumb statement because generally this is how he meta of fighting games work. To use that as an excuse to say Pichu is a must is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

OK, I'm out.
 
Marthmario

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MLGF said:
Oh look, Pichu wars.
A-****ing-gain.

Seriously guys, it's understood.
Some people want Pichu and other people don't. It's been dragged on forever and the fact it still i brought up gives me aids.

And I just want to say one thing to a Pichu supporter who says that he's more important because he was a "main" for some Melee players.
This is a fighting game, generally within patches and new installments people switch mains and jump to new characters. Saying Pichu deserves to be playable because he had people who used him is a dumb statement because generally this is how he meta of fighting games work. To use that as an excuse to say Pichu is a must is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

OK, I'm out.
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I thought Pichu was a good idea, but the idea is being beaten over my head and I am starting to dislike it.
 
Marthmario

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Shin F. said:
Don't blame the Pichu users. The obnoxious ones aren't around any more. He generally only comes up when non-supporters bring him up and we have to re-explain why people want him.
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Sorry Shin, I realized how mean my statement sounded. :(
 
Thane of Blue Flames

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Pichu Argument summed up:

"Pichu is a perfectly viable candidate, who has veteran status in Melee to assist his chances."
"But we hate him, so that makes the previous argument invalid."
"It actually doesn't."
"Oh, yeah. Well, look at that."

Now shut up.

~ Signed, a non-supporter of Pichu who recognizes the right of other people to support who they want for PM. Something of a foreign concept in this thread, feels like.
 
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Sour Supreme

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Lordling said:
Pichu Argument summed up:

"Pichu is a perfectly viable candidate, who has veteran status in Melee to assist his chances."
"But we hate him, so that makes the previous argument invalid."
"It actually doesn't."
"Oh, yeah. Well, look at that."

Now shut up.

~ Signed, a non-supporter of Pichu who recognizes the right of other people to support who they want for PM. Something of a foreign concept in this thread, feels like.
Click to expand...
GHANDI.
 
UltimateWario

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Lordling said:
Pichu Argument summed up:

"Pichu is a perfectly viable candidate, who has veteran status in Melee to assist his chances."
"But we hate him, so that makes the previous argument invalid."
"It actually doesn't."
"Oh, yeah. Well, look at that."

Now shut up.

~ Signed, a non-supporter of Pichu who recognizes the right of other people to support who they want for PM. Something of a foreign concept in this thread, feels like.
Click to expand...
Pff, nicefag. Respecting other peoples' opinions an' ****.
 
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Saito

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Sometimes I wish Pichu wouldn't be brought up.

I've made so many arguments about why I want him in that I'm tired of repeating the same thing.

If only there was some way to project my thoughts into every person that has a question about Pichu we could stop this.
 
Sour Supreme

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Saito said:
Sometimes I wish Pichu wouldn't be brought up.

I've made so many arguments about why I want him in that I'm tired of repeating the same thing.

If only there was some way to project my thoughts into every person that has a question about Pichu we could stop this.
Click to expand...
Pichu might as well get his own thread so he stops getting in the way of our everlasting progressive creativity. If he has enough salt for an egg-white omelet he has enough for a thread. That way anybody who feels he needs to be discussed can mindlessly rage and it doesn't get in the way of other discussions.
 
Saito

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Psykid said:
Pichu might as well get his own thread so he stops getting in the way of our everlasting progressive creativity. If he has enough salt for an egg-white omelet he has enough for a thread. That way anybody who feels he needs to be discussed can mindlessly rage and it doesn't get in the way of other discussions.
Click to expand...
About 10+ Pichu threads have been made because they got sick of seeing it here.

They get locked because Pichu discussion belongs here.
 
E

EdgeTheLucas

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Lordling said:
Pichu Argument summed up:

"Pichu is a perfectly viable candidate, who has veteran status in Melee to assist his chances."
"But we hate him, so that makes the previous argument invalid."
"It actually doesn't."
"Oh, yeah. Well, look at that."

Now shut up.

~ Signed, a non-supporter of Pichu who recognizes the right of other people to support who they want for PM. Something of a foreign concept in this thread, feels like.
Click to expand...
I might get Premium JUST to fit this into my sig.
 
OrangeSodaGuy

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MLGF said:
And I just want to say one thing to a Pichu supporter who says that he's more important because he was a "main" for some Melee players.
This is a fighting game, generally within patches and new installments people switch mains and jump to new characters. Saying Pichu deserves to be playable because he had people who used him is a dumb statement because generally this is how he meta of fighting games work. To use that as an excuse to say Pichu is a must is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
Click to expand...
Ouch! If you don't want him in, I can respect that, but calling people dumb for wanting him back is kinda harsh. :nervous:
I'm sorry if I've been too pushy on this subject recently in this thread.
Half the fun of P:M is watching them come up with interesting, innovative revamps for previously boring/meh characters and making them a million times more fun to play. I'm just putting myself in their shoes-- P:M is the perfect chance to rescue Pichu from the proverbial scrappy heap.

Moving on!
 
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MLGF

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OrangeSodaGuy said:
Ouch! If you don't want him in, I can respect that, but calling people dumb for wanting him back is kinda harsh. :nervous:
I'm sorry if I've been too pushy on this subject recently in this thread.
Half the fun of P:M is watching them come up with interesting, innovative revamps for previously boring/meh characters and making them a million times more fun to play. I'm just putting myself in their shoes-- P:M is the perfect chance to rescue Pichu from the proverbial scrappy heap.

Moving on!
Click to expand...
Not saying Pichu fans are dumb, or that all reasons desiring him is dumb, but saying this game won't be complete without Pichu because he was in Melee is dumb.

It's a simple thing.
 
OrangeSodaGuy

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MLGF said:
Not saying Pichu fans are dumb, or that all reasons desiring him is dumb, but saying this game won't be complete without Pichu because he was in Melee is dumb.

It's a simple thing.
Click to expand...
Okay, that makes more sense. Yeah, the roster is looking pretty stellar with Mewtwo and Roy already. I would miss Pichu and his lulz should he not make it, and I can respect the PMBR's decision should they decide to go with other characters. They know what they're doing.

Having Mewtwo and Roy in addition to the rest of SSBB's roster and doing an EXTREMELY good job of balancing everyone is already above and beyond awesome. The PMBR's really outdone themselves, so if I sound ungrateful for all of their hard work right now, my apologies. :denzel:

Realistically, ANYONE else we get at this point would be icing on the cake.
 
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TimeSmash

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I don't exactly see the big deal about Blood Falcon or Dark Samus being alternate skins, that just doesn't seem like that big of a deal after reading over everything here. Yeah, Dark Samus beam switching might be weird, but for her to have the ability to do that isn't overly heinous.

Pichu argument conclusion (for now): If he gets in at all, that's fine. As his own character, even better. But I'd settle for a Pokeball cameo or even him being in the background of some stage a la villagers in Smashville. I suppose if someone REALLY wants him in, Thetyah's build will cover that haha seeing as how it has literally every graphic mod ever. I really just like the original PM build better though, Thetyah's is just too much.

Kind of an aside, but if the SSE was deleted or modified, would that give more data to use for clone characters (or really, anything)? I have no idea how that would work, or even if it would work so I'm asking on here as a curiousity
 
Shin F.

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CardiganBoy said:
Yeah, considering most of us Earthbound fans are pirates, YAR!
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Aye, that we are matey. We be seeing a lack of Mother so we be fixing the issue by spreading it across the internet.
Solbliminal said:
Now I liked it. Your statement is no longer valid. :alakadoof:
Click to expand...
He didn't say only Mother fans did, just that those of us who frequent the thread did. It still is true. :substitute:
 
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