New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Fortress]

Skull Kid is about on-topic as it gets, seeing as he's been the toast of the town for the past three pages. Boo has no legs, that's all I'll say about him. No legs, and looks janky. How do I tell what he's doing.

 

[AnOkayDM]

Do you mean King Boo, by chance? Because any random Boo has no more worth or chance than, say, an Ironknuckle.

Also, we're perfectly on topic, but nice try.

 

[Alban712]

Vote for Lyn, Waluigi, Dixie, Bowser Jr. and Isaac

Half vote for: Claus, Krystal, Shadow, Knuckles, Blackshadow/Gannondorf

Anti-vote for: Pichu (very divisive character, not relevant anymore and Pokemon having enough reps)
King K. Rool (It's near impossible to make him work as a clone and doing so would be very boring for a character with lots of potential. He would take monstrous amount of time to be done in a satisfatory way

 

[Riddlrr]

I honestly just don't know that much about Skull Kid. Majora's mask was one of the few Zelda games I didn't get around to playing :/ That said, I'm totally up for more Zelda representation!

And Boo floating is one of the reasons I think he'd be interesting. In terms of what he's actually doing, Boo still has fists, and I imagine he'd use his tail in the same way that Jiggs might use her feet. It's a ghost and is known to have it's body stretch and warp in weird ways (including flattening), so I don't think the animations would look too out of place! Not to mention his big fat tongue (which could also be used maybe in a special move), and the ability to disappear to get away.

 

[AnOkayDM]

I honestly just don't know that much about Skull Kid. Majora's mask was one of the few Zelda games I didn't get around to playing :/ And Boo floating is one of the reasons I think he'd be interesting. In terms of what he's actually doing, Boo still has fists, and I imagine he'd use his tail in the same way that Jiggs might use her feet. It's a ghost and is known to have it's body strech and warp in weird ways (including flattening), so I don't think the animations would look too out of place! Not to mention his big fat tongue (which could also be used maybe in a special move), and the ability to disappear to get away.

You realize everything you said about his animations would make the character incredibly difficult to actually...animate? Basically everything about him would be tough to animate, actually, and coming up with an actual interesting moveset for him would be incredibly tough.

And again, why should a type of enemy--not even a specific member of that race--get in?

Additionally, go play Majora's Mask. It's incredible and ten bucks on Virtual Console.

 

[Saito]

And again, why should a type of enemy--not even a specific member of that race--get in?

 

[AnOkayDM]

Mmm, nice one, actually. Still, at least the Yoshis have their own games.

 

[Riddlrr]

I would totally prefer King Boo. He's a much more important character and his move set would have the possibility of being more diverse. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to appear in Brawl in a trophy or sticker form, and since I'm not 100% clear on what's fair game and what's not I thought I'd play it safe. That said, with Luigi's mansion as a stage, I could be totally wrong. And for the animations, I just wasn't clear. My point was that because Boo can stretch and warp, the animators would have more options to do what they want.

And funnily enough, I actually just bought Majoras Mask like two weeks ago! Now I'm just waiting for some time when I feel like I can actually play it!

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

Changed my vote, due to the addition of Skull Kid. My original post can be found here. Lyn is now a 1/2 vote for me, and Skull Kid has a full vote. If this is not allowed, inform me about it, or refer to my original vote for tallying purposes.

+1 Vote:​

Saki​

Bowser Jr.​

Skapon​

Skull Kid (replaced Lyn for my full vote)​

Claus/Masked Man​

​

+1/2 Vote:​

Lyn (is now a half-vote, due to the introduction of Skull Kid)​

Shadow​

Waluigi​

Toon Zelda​

Tetra​

Krystal​

Plusle/Minun​

Samurai Goroh​

Dixie​

Dark Samus​

Ganondorf/Black Shadow​

Ridley​

Isaac​

Pokemon Trainer Red (recently added)​

Jeff (recently added)​

Andy (recently added)​

​

-1 Vote:​

None​

 

[AnOkayDM]

I would totally prefer King Boo. He's a much more important character and his move set would have the possibility of being more diverse. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to appear in Brawl in a trophy or sticker form, and since I'm not 100% clear on what's fair game and what's not I thought I'd play it safe. That said, with Luigi's mansion as a stage, I could be totally wrong. And for the animations, I just wasn't clear. My point was that because Boo can stretch and warp, the animators would have more options to do what they want.

And funnily enough, I actually just bought Majoras Mask like two weeks ago! Now I'm just waiting for some time when I feel like I can actually play it!

No, I understand what you're saying, but I think that making those animations look convincing would be harder than animating normal movement. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see Boo as an easy task, with no legs to speak of and the possibility of warped animations...
Eh. I just think there are far more important characters, and easier ones. Not to rain on your parade.

I hope you enjoy Majora's Mask!

 

[Fortress]

Just a suggestion: Remove Sonic characters from the voting list. The 'rules' (as they were) of the thread use Sonic as an example for this, yet Knuckles, Tails, and Shadow are up there.

4. This is a Nintendo game, so third party characters shouldn't be getting that much attention regardless (i.e. no need to have 3 Sonic characters). Also copyright/C&D issues. Characters that haven't appeared in Brawl have no chance, so don't even mention them.

Though, I'm still going to vote for Liquid, and downvote any Sonic choices so hard that my thumbs burst from their sockets and bore down into the core of the Earth, so you might as well just ignore this.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

So, against my better judgment, I'm going to go ahead and post a full write-up on Liquid Snake. Note: I'm aware that a full write-up with this much detail is likely pointless, but I'm going to do it anyway because hype.

Liquid Snake:

"Are you ready now... my brother?"

In choosing a second Metal Gear representative, the only two characters really competing for the slot, in my mind, are Liquid Snake and Gray Fox. In my opinion, Liquid is the better option. He is more easily cloned than Gray Fox and is more memorable and important than even the cyborg ninja.

"I'm YOU. I'm your shadow."

As far as clones go, Liquid might make the most sense out of all of them. For those who are unfamiliar with Metal Gear Solid, Liquid is Solid Snake's twin; however, he was raised in the UK, where he received training similar to Snake's own. As such, Liquid has the same basic abilities and combat skills as his twin brother. Essentially, anything that is possible of Snake is likely possible for Liquid, making him the perfect candidate for a Snake clone.

In addition, when considering clones for Smash, Snake is just a great choice in general, be it Liquid or an Advance Wars character. Snake is a polarized enough character with an odd enough style of play that a clone of him with different physics and a different playstyle could easily feel entirely different.

"Have at you, Snake!"

A brief on Snake:

Snake is a grappler who relies on his tools to make the most out of his grabs. He has an astoundingly slow horizontal aerial speed along with a fairly average ground speed. His physical attacks have high knockback and are generally used to get opponents away from him so he can collect himself and use his tools to make a better situation for himself later on. Despite the high knockback of his moves, Snake is somewhat capable of putting together absolutely brutal combos that often end in a dead opponent. His biggest weaknesses are easily his predictable recovery and terrible approach.

I would design Liquid's character as such:

Where Snake is a tools-focused grappler, Liquid could be a tools-focused combo-oriented character. Overall, he would be a more straight-forward character than his brother, relying less on stage control and trickery to get by. Liquid would be a faster character than Snake, both on the ground and in the air. In addition, Liquid's physical attacks would be designed less around high knockback and more around leading into one another to create a deep combo game entirely different than his twin's.

Also, Liquid would lack the mine and mortar of Snake, as those fit into Snake's sneaky playstyle more than my vision for Liquid's character. Instead, they would be replaced by hard hitting or good comboing physical attacks.

Specials:

Neutral-B: Flash Grenade - A grenade that would be similar in execution to Snake's grenade, but would serve a different function. The flash grenade would explode on contact with the ground or the enemy, causing no damage but having a good amount of hitstun and allowing Liquid to get in close and start comboing. Like Snake's grenade, the Flash Grenade can hit Liquid as well, so careful use is required.

Side-B: FAMAS - The assault rifle used by Liquid at the end of Metal Gear Solid. In design, the FAMAS would be most similar to Sheik's needles and would fire in bursts. Instead of requiring a charge like the needles, however, the FAMAS would have a limited number of rounds in a clip before it had to be reloaded, similar to Snake's new tranq. gun.

Up-B: Cypher - I couldn't think of a different recovery for Liquid, so I figured we may as well use Snake's. Liquid's would lack the shock that Snake's has, but could serve as part of his combo game, allowing him extra mobility and height to continue combos. His recovery would likely be better than Snake's overall because of his greater horizontal movement speed, but the length of time Cypher is active could be adjusted as needed to account for this.

Down-B: Semtex - Similar to Snake's C4 and mine in design, Liquid's semtex would be dropped on the ground by Liquid, becoming an active mine about a second after it lands. The semtex would activate when stepped on by an opponent, and would automatically go off after about ten seconds or when another one is placed. This would offer Liquid less stage control than Snake's C4 or mine, as leaving that trait to Snake is best for keeping the two different and would not mesh well with Liquid's design. The semtex would lack the killing power of the mine or C4, but would pop the opponent up into a comboable position.

"You enjoy all the killing, that's why!"

Why include Liquid in Project M?

Liquid, as a character, is extremely important to his franchise, being the primary villain of the first Metal Gear Solid game whose legacy stretches well beyond just one game. In addition, he can provide an interesting archetype to the roster and can be done fairly easily as a clone of Snake.

The only real cons I can see for Liquid are that he is a third party character, and for many that is a deal breaker, but I honestly believe that he is worth the effort.

Thoughts?

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

Just a suggestion: Remove Sonic characters from the voting list. The 'rules' (as they were) of the thread use Sonic as an example for this, yet Knuckles, Tails, and Shadow are up there.

I believe the rule in question that you are quoting is referring to the fact that a 3rd party shouldn't be OVERLY saturated from the same franchise, but the addition of one more character from said franchise is certainly not a stretch.

That being said, I'd rather add characters that are more relevant to Nintendo, and would fill a gap by either adding a character from an unrepresented Nintendo franchise and/or a character with a unique niche (fighting potential and relevance accounted for) from a currently represented franchise.

 

[AnOkayDM]

I think an altered Snake clone would be an interesting idea. The third-party thing, while not a deal-breaker, does put him lower in importance for me--I wouldn't vote for him, but I certainly wouldn't downvote him, since the idea is actually quite intriguing. Only one thing: is he in Brawl at all? Additionally, purely hypothetical (and to help you prep for the detractors), is there a Nintendo character that could fit the Luigi-fied Snake role?

 

[Fortress]

Only one thing: is he in Brawl at all

His genetic 'clone' of sorts, Snake, is a playable character, so yes.

 

[AnOkayDM]

His genetic 'clone' of sorts, Snake, is a playable character, so yes.

Hmmmmmmmmkay.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

I think an altered Snake clone would be an interesting idea. The third-party thing, while not a deal-breaker, does put him lower in importance for me--I wouldn't vote for him, but I certainly wouldn't downvote him, since the idea is actually quite intriguing. Only one thing: is he in Brawl at all? Additionally, purely hypothetical (and to help you prep for the detractors), is there a Nintendo character that could fit the Luigi-fied Snake role?

He's a sticker in Brawl. The only other Luigi-fied Snake role I can think of is an Advance Wars character or Raiden, who is also a sticker. He could be interesting in that he could be similar to Snake, but with a sword. I would go for Gray Fox over Raiden though, and Liquid is a better choice than both in my opinion.

 

[True Fool]

Half vote for Charles Barkley!

 

[PsionicSabreur]

Thoughts?

I think that Liquid could be a worthy choice. What he brings to the table isn't particularly appealling to me, but what you've described certainly seems worthwhile in general.

Speaking purely objectively, one of Liquid's biggest problems is that he is in direct competition with Sami (from Advance Wars) as a potential Snake clone. Sami already has a sizable backing, isn't third party, and covers a lot of bases with series/gender representation. I'm not trying to push for one or the other (although I do think Liquid would be the more natural-feeling choice) but I definitely see that hurting Liquid's chances.

 

[AnOkayDM]

He's a sticker in Brawl. The only other Luigi-fied Snake role I can think of is an Advance Wars character or Raiden, who is also a sticker. He could be interesting in that he could be similar to Snake, but with a sword. I would go for Gray Fox over Raiden though, and Liquid is a better choice than both in my opinion.

Raiden is more like Marth on crack anyway, at least in his most recent appearance (and I don't know much about him beyond that). Yeah, like I said, I do like the concept of a Snake clone, especially a quicker one; I'd like Snake a lot more if he were faster.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

I suppose I should probably update my votes. With changes in bold, my votes stand as such:

+1:

Isaac
K. Rool
Tom Nook
Lyn
Liquid Snake (Added to +1)

+1/2:

Ridley (moved from +1 to +1/2)
Tetra (moved from -1 to +1/2, separated from Telda)
Skull Kid
Tails
Saki
Dixie
Dark Samus

-1:

Black Shadow/Ganondorf Swap - I'm sure you're aware of why at this point.

Telda and Plusle/Minun are removed from -1

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

I suppose I should probably update my votes. My votes stand as such:

+1:

Isaac
K. Rool
Tom Nook
Lyn
Liquid Snake

+1/2:

Dark Samus
Ridley (moved from +1 to +1/2)
Skull Kid
Tetra (moved from -1 to +1/2, separated from Telda)
Tails
Dixie
Saki

-1:

Black Shadow/Ganondorf Swap - I'm sure you're aware of why at this point.

Telda and Plusle/Minun are removed from -1

You may want to highlight EVERY change so Anti Guy doesn't have a seizure...

Jus' Sayin'

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

Raiden is more like Marth on crack anyway, at least in his most recent appearance (and I don't know much about him beyond that). Yeah, like I said, I do like the concept of a Snake clone, especially a quicker one; I'd like Snake a lot more if he were faster.

Well, the Raiden shown in the sticker is the MGS2 Raiden, who is basically pretty Snake with a sword. He could easily be an interesting character (probably moreso than his cyborg form), and I like Raiden enough, but, again, Liquid and Gray Fox have him beat.

Speaking purely objectively, one of Liquid's biggest problems is that he is in direct competition with Sami (from Advance Wars) as a potential Snake clone. Sami already has a sizable backing, isn't third party, and covers a lot of bases with series/gender representation. I'm not trying to push for one or the other (although I do think Liquid would be the more natural-feeling choice) but I definitely see that hurting Liquid's chances.

Well, I suppose the best way to deal with that issue is to vote for Liquid!

Seriously though, that is a con I hadn't thought of too deeply. I'd like to think they don't really have to be in competition, Sami's or Andy's movesets can really be anything, and they could realistically both be included with Liquid being the only Snake clone. That said, I don't know where else their movesets could come from. Unfortunately, they may actually be competing for the same slot, which is a shame.

Regardless, I still believe Liquid is the best option, mainly because of Metal Gear hype and the fact that Liquid makes more sense as a fighter in Smash to me. That hasn't stopped R.O.B., Falcon, and plenty of other characters though, so it shouldn't really stop an Advance Wars character, but, again, Liquid is still the better option in my opinion.

Hopefully Liquid gets support, I feel he deserves it.

 

[Inawordyes]

I feel really good for suggesting not one, but two characters that nobody else apparently thought to think of (Vaati and Skull Kid) that have have had discussion spanning multiple pages, and in the case of Skull Kid especially, Pichu/Ganondorf discussion has actually been shut down by the people in the thread to rather talk about Skull Kid.

On a more serious note, since Vaati is not eligible due to not appearing in Brawl yet was included in my votes (my original updated post is here (refer to this for my reasoning behind the +1 and -1 votes), I'm remedying that by replacing him, as well as updating my 1/2's with characters I missed:

Upvote (+1):
Sami
Lyn
Sukapon
Isaac
Skull Kid - (Added as a replacement vote for the ineligible Vaati)

Half-Vote (1/2):
Ridley
Bowser Jr.
Toad
Waluigi
Sothe
Micaiah
Dixie Kong
King K. Rool
Saki
Samurai Goroh
Standalone Pokemon Trainer/Red
Tom Nook (Added as a 1/2 vote)
Blaziken (Added as a 1/2 vote)
Meowth (Added as a 1/2 vote)
Liquid Snake (Added as a 1/2 vote)

Downvote (-1):
Dark Samus

Other:
Vaati (ineligible for Project M and removed from +1 accordingly)

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

There we go, 1.5 votes is the first step (and a half) towards success!

Now, if we could get Liquid on the OP we might see the idea pick up some more traction (hint, hint )...

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

I dunno if I wanna give him a half-vote just yet.
While your write-up was great, he's not exactly a character I would support.
That being said, I DO think he should be added to the OP, since Metal Gear has nothing up there, and Liquid seems decent enough.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

I dunno if I wanna give him a half-vote just yet.
While your write-up was great, he's not exactly a character I would support.
That being said, I DO think he should be added to the OP, since Metal Gear has nothing up there, and Liquid seems decent enough.

Fair enough.

Keep in mind that a vote for Liquid is a vote for mullets. Do you want to be responsible for limiting Smash to just ONE mullet?

Vote Liquid today!

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

Fair enough.

Keep in mind that a vote for Liquid is a vote for mullets. Do you want to be responsible for limiting Smash to just ONE mullet?

Vote Liquid today!

WELL SHEEEEEEEEEIT!
I DO like mullets, very much so.
1/2 vote for Liquid (sorry to keep effing with your counts Anti Guy......but....MULLETS)

 

[Saito]

WELL ****

I had intended to update my votes, but I closed the tab.

Guess im doing that later.

 

[ElvishSpirit]

Just giving my votes -

Upvote (+1):

Waluigi ( This guy can have a fantastic move set based of all of the Mario sport, kart, and party. Have you ever seen him in Mario Strikers Charged? He does shadow teleports and uses purple thorns)
Dark Samus
Isaac
Lyn
Ridley

Downvote:
Anyone in green or yellow I did not upvote because downvoting is stupid and does not fairly represent votes. Waluigi has 14 upvotes and Tom Nook has 10 1/2 and yet he is nearly 10 places above him. I don't mean to be biased when I pick Waluigi as an example, he was just the best example.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

I think there should be a new rule, anybody who votes on the same day as making there account should not count. The reasoning is obvious.

 

[Chzrm3]

I think there should be a new rule, anybody who votes on the same day as making there account should not count. The reasoning is obvious.

But then the voices of Chzrm's 1 through 10 would never be heard! The outrage!!!

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

Downvote:
Anyone in green or yellow I did not upvote because downvoting is stupid and does not fairly represent votes. Waluigi has 14 upvotes and Tom Nook has 10 1/2 and yet he is nearly 10 places above him. I don't mean to be biased when I pick Waluigi as an example, he was just the best example.

Majority rules, right? The character with the most up-votes is definitely worth considering. If that's true, then the character with the most down-votes is definitely NOT worth considering. I don't see how the inverse relation doesn't work for some people. Obviously, some people have down-voted certain characters for stupid reasons, but I don't think "This guy's pretty cool, right guys?" is an entirely valid reason to up-vote either. The stupid goes both ways, that's just how democracy works. While the voting system may be flawed, it's still probably better than what most people could think of. Since there are so many options, I think a down-vote system helps to further differentiate the ideas most people agree and disagree with, which is the goal of a typical voting system.

Also, to be fair, your comparison of Waluigi to Tom Nook isn't really fair. Tom Nook was only added as a voting option fairly recently, so obviously he's going to get less votes total. On top of that, there aren't a whole lot of objectively bad things to say about Tom Nook, whereas with Waluigi........yea.

 

[820]

Here's something I've been thinking about: What characters do you think have to most potential to be cloned? Who would have the most enjoyable alternate play style?

 

[Fortress]

Who would have the most enjoyable unique alternate play style?

Snake, since he's got such an odd one, which is why Liquid having small changes in physics and knockback alone could make him into a completely different character.

 

[Malion]

I think there should be a new rule, anybody who votes on the same day as making there account should not count. The reasoning is obvious.

I might have done that actually, I'd have to go back and check.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

Here's something I've been thinking about: What characters do you think have to most potential to be cloned? Who would have the most enjoyable alternate play style?

I find Yoshi's moveset to be the most fun, as odd as that may sound.
Yoshi is probably my favorite character to play as, speaking from a moveset standpoint only (I main Ike cause he's my favorite character in one of my favorite franchises of all time). However, there are like NO characters I'd like to see who would be cloned off of Yoshi.

Since Yoshi doesn't have a good character to take his moveset, I'd have to say Shiek (which may sound odd, too). Shiek also has a LOT of characters who could be potential clones, according to this thread.

 

[Anti Guy]

Downvote:
Anyone in green or yellow I did not upvote because downvoting is stupid and does not fairly represent votes. Waluigi has 14 upvotes and Tom Nook has 10 1/2 and yet he is nearly 10 places above him. I don't mean to be biased when I pick Waluigi as an example, he was just the best example.

It's for the sake of percentages too. Just consider it a separate poll.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I'll just compile my votes here then? I spread them out over various pages of discussion, so to finalize them all here:

+1
Lyn
Isaac
Dark Samus
Blaziken (Possible C. Falcon clone, but I refuse to cross my fingers for this one. :/ )

+1/2
Ridley
Krystal

-1
Slippy Toad
Waluigi ("Waaaaaaaaaaaa" ... Hell no.)
Tails
Knuckles
Shadow

 

[Anti Guy]

I'll just compile my votes here then? I spread them out over various pages of discussion, so to finalize them all here:

+1
Lyn
Isaac
Dark Samus
Blaziken (Possible C. Falcon clone, but I refuse to cross my fingers for this one. :/ )

+1/2
Ridley
Krystal

-1
Slippy Toad
Waluigi ("Waaaaaaaaaaaa" ... Hell no.)
Tails
Knuckles
Shadow

Did you have reasons for your negative votes?