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New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

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AnOkayDM

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Having read the updated rules, I'm gonna post my updated votes.

+1:
Ridley
Paper Mario
Tom Nook

+1/2:
Masked Man
Isaac
Dixie Kong

-1:
Waluigi: Waluigi hardly qualifies as an important character in the Mario universe. He's never been playable outside of the sports and party games, and as such, his moveset would likely be composed of sporting equipment and such. And that moveset would be put to better use on a character such as the Mii.
Krystal: Like Waluigi, Krystal is a really unimportant character in the Star Fox franchise. Not only does Star Fox really not need another character, but I feel that even if it were to get one, a different character would be a better choice.

Other notes: Should Ridley get confirmed for Smash 4, I'd like my upvote for him to go to Dark Samus. Likewise, if Dixie is confirmed, my vote would change from her to King K. Rool.
 

ChronoBound

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Data isn't everything, you also need to look at the why. Dixie had absolutely no supporters until the arguments of "Sakurai's uriginul visssiun" and "muh relavance" reared their ugly heads. Before then any reasonable person would tell you DK was fine with 3 reps (the 3rd being K Rool, obviously).
Interesting how you flamed me for "speaking for everyone" yet go on to say Dixie had no supporters prior to being a part of the Forbidden 7. She did have supporters during pre-Brawl, though people saw her next in line after K. Rool. Basically people saw the complete DK representation as being DK, Diddy, K. Rool, and Dixie. Its really Tropical Freeze's announcement where people started to think Dixie may be higher on the totem pole than K. Rool in terms of importance and likliness. In regard to likeliness, that is really faulty since the game was unveiled at a time where Sakurai said he already decided the roster.
 

trojanpooh

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Interesting how you flamed me for "speaking for everyone" yet go on to say Dixie had no supporters prior to being a part of the Forbidden 7. She did have supporters during pre-Brawl, though people saw her next in line after K. Rool. Basically people saw the complete DK representation as being DK, Diddy, K. Rool, and Dixie. Its really Tropical Freeze's announcement where people started to think Dixie may be higher on the totem pole than K. Rool in terms of importance and likliness. In regard to likeliness, that is really faulty since the game was unveiled at a time where Sakurai said he already decided the roster.

1) Learn to hyperbole.
2) Sakurai works for Nintendo. He obviously knew about upcoming titles when he was making the roster.
 

red9rd

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I would believe that Tom Nook would have a way way better chance than ridley to make it into smash 4 ( you all saw him grab the invitation in the promo)
 

ChronoBound

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I would believe that Tom Nook would have a way way better chance than ridley to make it into smash 4 ( you all saw him grab the invitation in the promo)
He didn't grab the invitation he just looked at the envelope it was contained in (Villager has the invitation).
 

TDLink

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Ok, I made an account here just to vote on this. I love Project M and so do all of my local friends. I really hope the best decisions are made in regards to the final 5 slots.

Up Vote (+1):
  1. Black Shadow/Ganondorf - This is such an amazing idea. The moveset with its shadow effects makes perfect sense for Black Shadow and we get another F-Zero rep in him. At the same time we are finally given the opportunity to have a Ganondorf that we all imagined when we heard he would be in Smash (ie, using Swords like in the games). There are no cons to this plan, no movesets lost. Only positives. This is the best idea for one of the slots and really needs to happen.
  2. Ridley - Metroid needs another representative and Charizard proves a character like Ridley can more than work in this game. Yeah he would need to be shrunk a bit from his proper size but that really doesn't matter. It isn't like Pikachu or other characters are at scale already. Working with Charizard as a base Ridley just makes a ton of sense.
  3. Isaac - I love the Golden Sun games and have been hoping to see Isaac make it into Smash Bros. for a while. I imagine he would be one of the harder characters to make as psynergy would be a must for him. If they just made him a pure sword user like the Fire Emblem characters then it would kind of be pointless to even include him. I'm all for it if they feel they can do him right though.
  4. King K. Rool - DK's most famous/main villain really deserves to be in the game. He's a great character and I'm confident the PM team could do him justice.
  5. Sami - Advance Wars really needs a rep and she would not only give us that, but also be pretty easy for the PM team with Snake as a base compared to Andy.


Half Vote (+1/2):
  • Dixie Kong - Why not? She's popular and can be easily made off of Diddy. Seems like a good idea to me.
  • Andy - Barring Sami not happening I'd totally be down for Andy instead, I love Advance Wars.
  • Tom Nook - I would love to have an AC rep in PM and Nook could be great for that.
  • Peppy Hare - I would like to see another Star Fox member. I think there is still more variation that can be done with the "spacie" formula without making him a total clone.
  • Slippy Toad - I'll give a half vote to Slippy for the same reason as Peppy, although I would prefer Peppy if it came down to a choice between them.

Down Vote (-1):
  • Pichu - He really shouldn't even be up for consideration. The only reason he is is because he was in Melee. That's not a good enough reason. We already have 7 pokemon and the only way you can really improve him is to make him Pikachu, which we already have. There have been people in this topic saying to give him original moves then...but if we're going to do that then why waste it on a ****ty character like Pichu? Any other option would be better. Just because he was in Melee doesn't mean he deserves to be in PM.
  • Sukapon - Come on guys, this is just lame. I understand it would be easier to implement than a more complicated character but it just screams lazy. Yeah he's a retro character but if you want a retro character there are so many better choices.
  • Toad - We really don't need more Mario characters
  • Bowser Jr. - See Toad
  • Waluigi - See Toad
  • Knuckles, Tails, Shadow, etc. - All Sonic characters under consideration should get a down vote from me. Sonic just isn't a Nintendo franchise. If we're adding more characters they should be Nintendo franchises. Not to mention people like Shadow are just dumb characters to begin with. Sorry to Sonic fans, but they really shouldn't take a spot here.
 

Saito

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I imagine adding in pokemon would be rather difficult unless they are of the same lineage of the existing pokemon (Such additions would be like Wigglytuff, Raichu, or Riolu) or already in the Smash previously (Like Mewtwo). Unless I'm missing some part of this conversation and I'm going off on some tangent, that's my say in the matter.
Riolu is my literal second favorite Pokemon (Lucario doesn't even exist on that list) but I don't think any Pokemon deserves a spot other than the last veteran Pichu.

Only reason Pichu even has a chance is because of the fact that he is a veteran.
 

Alfonzo Bagpipez

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There are no cons to this plan, no movesets lost. Only positives.
I agree that it's an idea that would work, but it's been expressed earlier in this thread by several people that it would leave many people very unhappy (myself included).
 

arcticfox8

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There are many cons
1. Ganon mains have to main a new character
2. Black Shadow is a tool
3. Ganon is one hell of a beautiful man and his moveset is fitting
4. A moveset with swords would be unfitting. Someone has stated before how sloppy Ganon is with a sword and that his most amazing feats have featured his sheer strength and magical martial arts.
 

Starcutter

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I personally think ganon's current moveset isn't fitting to his character, especially the down b. the up B and the side B aren't bad though.
 

TDLink

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I agree that it's an idea that would work, but it's been expressed earlier in this thread by several people that it would leave many people very unhappy (myself included).
There are many cons
1. Ganon mains have to main a new character
2. Black Shadow is a tool
3. Ganon is one hell of a beautiful man and his moveset is fitting
4. A moveset with swords would be unfitting. Someone has stated before how sloppy Ganon is with a sword and that his most amazing feats have featured his sheer strength and magical martial arts.
In the long run I don't think it should be held back solely because some people don't want a cosmetic change. I fear that since Ganon became a Falcon clone in Melee he is now doomed to have that moveset forever, which is garbage because it doesn't represent his true fighting skills/abilities at all.

Yes he has been known to be proficient at magic and if PM could add that aspect to him then I fully support it. He has also proved to be a great swordsman, especially in The Wind Waker (his best incarnation), but also in Twilight Princess. It wouldn't be unfitting at all. What is unfitting is for him to just have Falcon's moveset slightly altered.

F-Zero needs another rep and Black Shadow was a primary villain in GX. It perfectly fits from that angle.

People who main the character for his skills and abilities have no real change.

People who main the character just because it is Ganondorf would probably be more pleased with a moveset more accurate to his games.

The only "con" is "well Sakurai made him this way in Melee so now he can never be different because this is what people are used to", and that's a pretty dumb con in my books.
 

Alfonzo Bagpipez

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People who main the character for his skills and abilities have no real change.

People who main the character just because it is Ganondorf would probably be more pleased with a moveset more accurate to his games.

The only "con" is "well Sakurai made him this way in Melee so now he can never be different because this is what people are used to", and that's a pretty dumb con in my books.

What about people who use Ganon for the whole package. I think it would be pretty dumb to be giving them what is essentially a giant F U.
 

Anti Guy

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well, they did make a fighter out of the villager, who just normally doesn't fight. I think it's more likely to see a trainer fight anyways.

I do have a Red moveset that I can post if anyone wants.

EDIT: whatever I'm doing it anyways

[collapse=Red moveset]
Red:
[collapse=how I'm rating the size and stuff]
Real Low---Low---Below average---Little below average--Average--Little above average---Above average---High---Very high
example, size
Squirtle---Pikachu---Pikmin and Olimar---Ivysaur--Mario--Link---Snake---Charizard---Bowser
[/collapse]
Size: [little above average] about the same as snake, if not a bit shorter.
Weight: [average] he does have a bag with so much in it, it really shouldn't all fit.
Friction: [little below average] his shoes don't look like they would have any good traction on many surfaces.
Air Mobility: [Low] it's RED. he only jumps when going off cliffs. which, might I add, is the OPPOSITE of what smash is supposed to be.

Grapple (Old Rod):
Red pulls out the old rod and uses it to try to nab opponents and pull them closer. missing will leave red vulnerable. can also be used as a tether with Z

Jab:
just a basic one-two punch. like snake's but without a kick.

Tilts:
Side Tilt (Strength): Red uses the power of his pokemon and does a good shove.(taken from the way strength is used in the field) does high knockback for a tilt.
Down Tilt (PAcK): Red crouches down and opens his pack to look for something. does multiple hits
Up Tilt: Red raises his pokeball high in the air.

Smashes:
Side Smash (Cut): Red uses the power of his pokemon and a slash effect is seen in front of red, while he holds a pokeball up high .(taken from the way cut is used in the field)
Down Smash (Bait): Red places a bait on the ground, like in the safari zone. will heal teammates if eaten, and will stun opponents if stepped on. longer the charge, better the heal/stun
Up Smash: ...I actually can't think of anything... uh, lemme know if you come up with something good I guess.

Specials:
Down Special (Rock Throw): Red throws a rock. it travels about as fast as pit's arrow. also, Red might throw some other objects, such as an apple (which does more damage but can be eaten after) or a pester ball (like in pokemon snap, it will stun opponents)
Side Special (Bike): Red rides a bike. when he starts this move, a familiar "ding" can be heard. please don't sit in the corner and spam this. Works just like Wario's bike.
Neutral Special (Pokeball): Red throws a pokeball, temporarily capturing the opponent for a few moments. it doesn't do much damage upon impact, and the opponent can't be hurt inside the ball. best used to close the gap.
Up Special (Fly): Red summons a Pidgeotto and it flies him up a bit. does some damage. best related to a mixture between fox's firefox, and lucario's extremespeed.

Taunts:
Up Taunt: Red tosses his pokeball up and catches it, all while tipping his hat.
Side Taunt: Red checks his pokedex for information.
Down Taunt: Red Ties his shoe. (that's the best I could think of, really.)
[/collapse]

I hate to be the one always bursting the bubble, but a moveset like that would be unfeasible. The rod tether is not possible or very difficult. Despite it being a tether, it needs its own animation. I'm also assuming it would be a separate article, which may make things tricky. Summoning pokemon like Pidgeotto... I don't see that as possible. The bike does seem to be possible though, especially since Wario isn't using his at the moment.

If anything, a solo fighting Pokemon Trainer would probably get a B move where he spawns the Pokeball item in his hand, and it's the same thing as the actual item. he'd probably need some kind of charge timer to be able to use that though.


Anyways, here's another way I want to look at things. This list is a huge estimate, but I'd like to order the contestants from the poll by how easily they can be made. I'll retain the color they got from their last ranking.

Clones:
Pichu - Cloned off Pikachu. Added benefit of having a moveset from Melee to base off on.
Bowser Jr - Cloned off Bowser
Dark Samus - Cloned off Samus. Might have some of the problems that's causing Samus to take so long though.
Shadow - Cloned off Sonic, plus some changes
Knuckles - Cloned off Sonic, plus more changes

Tails - Cloned off Sonic, plus more changes including floating and tail animations
Toon Zelda - Cloned off Zelda.
Tetra? - Cloned off Sheik? I honestly don't know nor do I care
Toad - Cloned off Mario plus changes to his specials
Sami - Cloned off Snake. Will need completely new model though
Dixie - Cloned off Diddy. Will need lots of work for her pigtails though.

Fresh characters (easy?):
Ganondorf / Black Shadow - Ganondorf's model is already done. The rest is just his moveset, which should be nothing terribly fancy.
Waluigi - Not much of a fancy moveset. A lot can be based off Luigi and made weirder. PSA's done of him shown it can be done.
Ridley - Size and scaling will be the biggest issue. For moveset, PSA's have shown it can be done.
Paper Mario - I'm really not sure about this one. But on the upper side, he might be pretty easy.
Lyn - Lots of sword work, but at least no articles.
Samurai Goroh - Shouldn't use many articles either. He can be based a lot off Ganondorf or Ike.
Skapon - Fresh moveset and weird body with animations, but after the animations, he should be very straightforward, and his moves are too.

Fresh characters (difficult?):
Krystal - Can be based off the spacies. She will probably need a lot of work for her staff
Andy - Needs a whole model from nothing, a whole moveset, and probably a few articles.
Tom Nook - Will probably be not as crazy as people expect him to be, but I'm assuming he'll need as many gadgets as possible
Saki - Will probably need to do a lot of work on ZSS as a base for her unique weapons
Hector - Model and everything from scratch. No articles though.
King K Rool - Will probably be unable to do most of his attacks from his games, unfortunately...
Isaac - Lots of psynergy in his games... but very few ways of how it can be pulled off here, I think
Plusle & Minun - A two for one character? I think that would make the PMBR explode
 

TDLink

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What about people who use Ganon for the whole package. I think it would be pretty dumb to be giving them what is essentially a giant F U.
I think the people who love both the moveset and the character and at the same time actually take issue with the Black Shadow + New Ganon moveset proposed change are an extreme minority.

There are always going to be people who disagree with everything and you can never please everyone. The important thing is what the majority wants, and I think the votes here will prove that most people want this type of change or are at least indifferent to it rather than actively disliking it. If everything had to be unanimous change would never happen. Change can be good, especially when the change is ultimately pretty minor to the game's existing content and only serves to better it.
 

Alfonzo Bagpipez

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I think the people who love both the moveset and the character and at the same time actually take issue with the Black Shadow + New Ganon moveset proposed change are an extreme minority.

There are always going to be people who disagree with everything and you can never please everyone. The important thing is what the majority wants, and I think the votes here will prove that most people want this type of change or are at least indifferent to it rather than actively disliking it. If everything had to be unanimous change would never happen. Change can be good, especially when the change is ultimately pretty minor to the game's existing content and only serves to better it.

Well if we're going by the votes on this poll, this idea has 31 positive and 16 negative votes. While there are clearly more people for it, over a third of voters would hate to see it happen. I wouldn't exactly call one third an extreme minority. In my opinion, the less controversy an idea has, the better.
 

Anti Guy

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Well if we're going by the votes on this poll, this idea has 31 positive and 16 negative votes. While there are clearly more people for it, over a third of voters would hate to see it happen. I wouldn't exactly call one third an extreme minority. In my opinion, the less controversy an idea has, the better.

That is actually not that bad. He has a 73.4% support right now, which is pretty solid. And he has a better +1/-1 ratio than Dixie. The only thing about Ganondorf/Black Shadow is that he's the only character on this list that can actually "hurt" current players. Adding any other new character does not because they never had players to begin with.
 

Alfonzo Bagpipez

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That is actually not that bad. He has a 73.4% support right now, which is pretty solid. And he has a better +1/-1 ratio than Dixie.

Like you said, it has potential to hurt some players, and for that reason, I think the voting would need to be more unanimous for it to be considered. And Dixie is getting that much hate? I didn't expect that.
 

AndyWorld2014

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+ Vote

-Shadow: one of the best Sonic character that ever made. I would actually like...I mean love to see him in it. Shadow is far de best character ever since SA2. Better than Sonic.
-Sukapon: never recognize this character. It'll be interested if he's in the game.
-Waluigi: Literally love him. A very self-pity character would be playable!
-Isaac : yet another popular character would be playable for the game.
- Lyn: popular female character would be great to see her in it.

- Vote

-Black Shadow/ Ganondorf- yet, another Zelda character. Umm I think it's enough.
- Pichu- I see Pichu as a mini version of pikachu.
- King K Rool - I really don't know much of this character. I don't find him interesting to be playable. Bleh!
-Ridlely - ........hmmmmmm This creature look pretty difficult to play. I wouldn't enjoy playing this character, I wouldn't bother picking him.
- Dark Samus- hmmmmm .....yet another character I find less interest to play.


Yeeeep. :estatic: bloop bloop
 

Alfonzo Bagpipez

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+ Vote

-Shadow: one of the best Sonic character that ever made. I would actually like...I mean love to see him in it. Shadow is far de best character ever since SA2. Better than Sonic.
-Sukapon: never recognize this character. It'll be interested if he's in the game.
-Waluigi: Literally love him. A very self-pity character would be playable!
-Isaac : yet another popular character would be playable for the game.
- Lyn: popular female character would be great to see her in it.

- Vote

-Black Shadow/ Ganondorf
- Pichu
- King K Pool
-Ridlely
- Dark Samus


Yeeeep. :estatic:
You need reasons for down votes if you want all of your votes to count.
 

XStarWarriorX

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*looks at above post * I need reasons for down votes now? okay.... btw I edited one of my downvotes, but my votes are the same on pg. 3


Black shadow: yeah I don't want ganondorf gone, and his playstyle is fine as is (just tweak him a bit), I don't get what the fuss is about.
 

Anti Guy

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*looks at above post * I need reasons for down votes now?

Only if you change your votes or if you haven't voted yet. I'm not gonna make the 100 people who have already voted go back and provide reasons at this point.
 

PsionicSabreur

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I was thoroughly pissed at Ganondorf's clone status in Melee, but I do have a few lot of worries with the Black Shadow/Ganondorf idea, although I haven't downvoted it as of yet:

-SSB64 was originally supposed to feature generic humanoid fighters early on in development. I can't confirm it, but I would bet that Captain Falcon made it into the game in the first place because they had work done on a humanoid and he fit the bill for body type. Ganondorf got the same treatment, unfortunately, but the argument that "why would you clone an F-Zero character?" likely isn't the case, it's "why did you clone a generic fighter?" This is a better situation because there really isn't anything wrong with taking generic fighter down the decloning path to create a unique character.

-It makes sense that Ganondorf is so ludicrously powerful, since he is empowered by the triforce and his own magic. I find it kind of forced to say it would make sense that Black Shadow would be stronger than the likes of Bowser just because his character model has muscles.

-It's already possible to just change Ganondorf, especially to give him sword moves, since they don't require articles. Given that he already needs balance adjustments, this could be incorporated into his changes, because there really aren't a ton of creative ideas to improve his metagame and it's obvious he relies a little too much on one style. Diversifying his moveset could be just the thing he needs.
It might be important to note that a darkness-wave style attack or effect on an attack could be fashioned as a disjoint hitbox, too, and wouldn't require an article.

-Ganondorf has been shown to be able to kill with his bare hands. It also reflects his nature as Ganon quite well, I believe someone phrased it before in this thread that "he's a beast in a man's body." In contrast, I don't believe he's ever shown on-screen killing anything with a sword, or even magic, really. It at least supports the fact that he is a competent hand-to-hand fighter, and a fighter's moveset may not be entirely fitting but it is hardly an insult to his character.

-Ganondorf's repertoire with swords would be just as generic as his current martial-arts set, if not even moreso. He has absolutely nothing in the games besides basic slashes and stabs, unless you want to go all out and give him the dual-blade setup from Wind Waker, which is only slightly more interesting and much more difficult. Not to mention it would be harder to justify having so much power combined with so much range. A lot of current moves are pretty iconic, too: fair resembles his ground punch from OoT, bair makes me think of that backhand he gives Zelda in WW, flame choke also resembles his head grab before the finishing below when he's giving Link the beatdown in the cutscene before WW's final battle. They aren't direct renditions, but seriously, it isn't like you'll see him use a sword attack and say "OH! OH! OH! he used his oh-so-recognizable stab move that did like half a heart in Twilight Princess!" There are still plenty more moves that are or could be changed to be functionally similar to their current forms, but still aesthetically reminiscent of Ganondorf's character.

-I'd love to have the energy ball more than anything, but the possibility of just giving Ganondorf a projectile hasn't really been discussed to much fruition. For example, could Ganondorf himself be overwritten with a non-projectile clone character, then have his own data sans Warlock Punch directly ported to a clone based off of Lucario, or is something like that not feasible? I'd rather have a little extra work done and conserve a slot, because the only real benefit in my eyes is the Ganondorf changes. If those can be achieved without Black Shadow, then by all means that should happen.

As of right now I think I'd just regret consuming a clone slot so Ganondorf can have that one move that I actually want him to have.

These are more like points of discussion rather than an absolute list of why the idea won't work. I'd much rather discuss these as possible alternatives before I start to argue over Ganon Canon over and over, or why I should think Black Shadow is important beyond all doubt.
 

XStarWarriorX

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Only if you change your votes or if you haven't voted yet. I'm not gonna make the 100 people who have already voted go back and provide reasons at this point.
Ah ok, I just changed one of my downvotes from dixie kong to black shadow/ganondorf. and switched Ridley to +1, leaving saki at half vote, and put Dixie in the half vote spot.

Lol sorry for the trouble, I misunderstood the post.
 

Alfonzo Bagpipez

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*looks at above post * I need reasons for down votes now? okay.... btw I edited one of my downvotes, but my votes are the same on pg. 3
I believe it only applies to new votes, but it's always nice to provide some of your input too.

ninja'd
 

Cubelarooso

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Hm, I didn't make my down votes… Well, they are
Third Party Characters
The "Nintendo All-Stars" arguments are valid, and I agree with them, but there is a more objective objection.
The biggest threat to the future of Project M its legally grey status. Thus far Nintendo seems to have been level headed enough to realize that allowing fans to add value to one of their products increases the value of all of their products. However, bringing in third parties throws new wrench into the can of worms. Not only is there the danger of upsetting Sega or Konami, there's also the danger of Nintendo becoming scared that they'll get upset. Letting others use one's own property is one thing, but letting others use borrowed property is a whole 'nother, and Nintendo may not wish to strain relationships. Especially since they seem to want to break the cycle of poor support with the Wii U, and are pulling even more third parties into Smash 4.
I think anyone can agree that not having one's favorite character is Pro:M is favorable to not having Pro:M.

I'm not sure about the new vote locking rule, it seems it would devalue discussion if minds are not allowed to be changed. Perhaps simply having a waiting period on changes.
Regardless, I shall downgrade my Paper Mario vote to 1/2.


You can read Japanese, Anti Guy? How accurate is the fan translation? I kinda like"Konnan Irahen"… harder to say, but that would make the the attack a KI blast, right :bee:?
Good to see Sukapon so high on the polls. Hopefully it gets into Project M, and when the Earthling Empire is inevitably conquered by the robo-horde, they'll look upon mankind's greatest creation, see the kindness we felt for their people, and find mercy in their directories.
Thanks for adding my post (plug plug) to the OP (and for managing this in general, actually) (btw, I think it'd look cleaner if every character used banners like Goroh, when possible). I intend to keep it updated throughout discussions as a repository of gaudimechanical engineering knowledge.

On that note, so no one has to reread that monolith of text, here are the updates I have made that were pulled from my own mind:
Eye Copter would make a great attack: it could be the first aerial that is bipartite like Link's Fsmash.
The mentioned method of animating Sukapon means that reversing animations would be simple, and since it's a magic robot those reversed animations might actually be usable.
Radial motions could be easily animated by placing an ethereal bone in the center of the desired motion.
By adding tilting and bobbing, the spinning idle animation could be used as a base for all swimming animations.
Clarified the purpose of Sukapon Roll stopping, but not ending, at a ledge (besides it being like that in JMF): Sukapon is left vulnerable to counterattack by opponents who can out-prioritize SR quickly enough, or they could simply allow themselves (or their shield, if they're better at video games than me) to be hit, which would bounce Sukapon into the disadvantageous position of being off-stage. On the other hand, SR could be used against missed ledge-sweetspots.
Clarified that, because I doubt otherwise is possible, the sweetspot for Super Sukapon Roll is the expected arc, given that nothing interrupts or changes it (such as terrain or wind).

I've also realized some good possible series icons, which will be coming eventually.


Regarding Isaac (also applicable to some other characters):
I really like him in pretty much every way, and as Venus Adept he could make an amazing Smash character. In a game all about movement, he could make the stage move for him, altering the terrain to create new platforms, walls, hills, valleys, caves, holes, pitfalls, cliffs, ledges, and even using plants to make ladders, springs, and spikes. The thing is, though, as powerful as the PMBR's alchemy is, I think this is one thing that is beyond their capabilities. I even doubt if they could implement a (fun) djinn setting system.
Without that, I don't see how Isaac could add anything to the game that the Links haven't already. But I'm open to conversation, and if anyone can convince me that he does have potential (or, The Wise One willing, can confirm that a terraforming character is possible), I still have one +1 left (he desperately needs it).
That, and I don't see why everyone thinks he's not in Smash 4.
 

Solbliminal

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I am one of the biggest Shadow fans on the face of the planet, you do not understand how happy I would be if they added him.
Shadow is one of my absolute favorites. His appearance in SA2 was golden. I love the character and he seems like the most reasonable choice in terms of a Sonic semi-clone. Many in these forums may not like him, but I know Shadow still has a decently large fanbase. I hope his votes go up soon..
 

ChronoBound

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That, and I don't see why everyone thinks he's not in Smash 4.
The only activity Golden Sun has seen since Brawl was a third game that basically flew under the radar. Many people also believe that Xenoblade's Shulk will outprioritize Isaac. Finally, there are those that feel if we do get a Golden Sun character that it will be Matthew since he is the most recent Golden Sun character and Camelot may prefer to have him in since his story is not finished yet (Dark Dawn ended on a cliffhanger).
 

Chzrm3

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I actually wanna downvote Black Shadow + new Ganon, but I'm really resisting it because I don't want to drive Anti Guy crazy by changing my vote after 48 pages. XD

I love how this thread progresses, too. It's almost like waves - discussions about Ganon and Pichu seem to ebb back and forth. What's gonna happen when they finally happen at the same time? : O

How about a decloned Ganon that has Pichu's moveset?!?!? That way you get the playstyle of Pichu without having Pichu and now Ganon has thunder attacks and is really easy to kill.
 

trojanpooh

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I actually wanna downvote Black Shadow + new Ganon, but I'm really resisting it because I don't want to drive Anti Guy crazy by changing my vote after 48 pages. XD

I love how this thread progresses, too. It's almost like waves - discussions about Ganon and Pichu seem to ebb back and forth. What's gonna happen when they finally happen at the same time? : O

How about a decloned Ganon that has Pichu's moveset?!?!? That way you get the playstyle of Pichu without having Pichu and now Ganon has thunder attacks and is really easy to kill.

And he can have a sword in his back pocket that behaves like Pichu's tail.
 

PsionicSabreur

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-It's already possible to just change Ganondorf, especially to give him sword moves, since they don't require articles. Given that he already needs balance adjustments, this could be incorporated into his changes, because there really aren't a ton of creative ideas to improve his metagame and it's obvious he relies a little too much on style. Diversifying his moveset could be just the thing he needs.
Okay, it's obvious I meant on -one- style, so I'm fixing that, just wanted to preserve for posterity this accidental statement. That's right, you heard it from me: Ganondorf just has too much style. He's so stylish it's practically a character flaw.

How about a decloned Ganon that has Pichu's moveset?!?!? That way you get the playstyle of Pichu without having Pichu and now Ganon has thunder attacks and is really easy to kill.
Why not take it a step further? For fans of Pichu who want buffs and like him as a character, Pichu will be placed over Ganondorf's old model. Fans of the Ganondorf playstyle won't have to relocate, Pichu makes a return. Everybody wins, right?
Think like this, but obviously with Pichu instead:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7LNXoWI764
 

OrangeSodaGuy

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Me personally, I can see why people want Ganon to stay the way he is-- as not to alienate old-school Melee fans.
If another F-zero character gets in, Goroh is the best choice IMO.

I would much rather see Ganon retain his same basic SSBM inspired moveset and fighting style, with just a handful of new moves--

* maybe a new U-tilt which could be one of the very few moves where he uses his sword (if any). Just like his original Utilt, it could take forever to charge and have ludicrously insane kill power to compensate. Almost as if Ike's F-smash were a Utilt.

* Maybe his Warlock Punch could be retooled into an attack reminiscent of his OoT shadow balls. He could charge a shadowy orb in his hand, and slam it into an opponent at point-blank range. Think of the rasengan technique out of Naruto, for example.
FullMetal Alchemist, Rurouni Kenshin, Jojo's, Gurren Lagann, and One Piece >>>>>>>>>>


I don't think Ganon really needs a complete overhaul as not to alienate OG Ganon mains from Melee, but seeing a few minor tweaks for the sake of canon would be nice.
 

Fortress

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The only Ganondorf change that would work without alienating the Ganondorf crowd (come on, that's been their character for twelve years, guys) would be to change Warlock Fist into... I don't know, Warlock Bolt or something. Just some Lucario-esque bolt of magic that, hell, bounces off of characters it hits and that Ganondorf can just keep punching back at his opponent.

Maybe not that, but a projectile couldn't hurt. Or something.

Do any Ganondorf mains ever use Warlock Fist on purpose?
 

Alfonzo Bagpipez

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* maybe a new U-tilt which could be one of the very few moves where he uses his sword (if any). Just like his original Utilt, it could take forever to charge have ludicrously insane kill power to compensate. Almost as if Ike's F-smash were a Utilt.

* Maybe his Warlock Punch could be retooled into an attack reminiscent of his OoT shadow balls. He could charge a shadowy orb in his hand, and slam it into an opponent at point-blank range. Think of the rasengan technique out of Naruto, for example.
I actually really like that rasengan idea. It would also make sense for them to change the uptilt since the PMBR don't really know what to do with it (considering his current up tilt).
 

Fortress

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Just have Ganondorf shoot his foot straight up into the air for his U-tilt. Don't even animate the rest of his body to move, just have him kick straight up. Straight into the sky.

Your boot will be the boot to pierce the heavens.
 
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