Charizard Matchup Discussion - Bayonetta

[Swamp Sensei]

The witch hunts are over, but she's still quite a force to be reckoned with.

So how to we burn the witch?

Link to archive: http://smashboards.com/threads/lets...e-is-here-still-looking-for-photoshop.407883/

 

[Flamegeyser]

I think it's probably pretty bad for Char. BW cancels out dthrow->fair being true for him, and he's too large and heavy to not be combod into oblivion. Luckily, Char can avoid edgeguard attempts, and kills pretty early, but Bayo also has surprising range on her attacks, and is much faster for certain. I dunno, it's probably about 45-55 in Bayo's favor IMO.

 

[TheColorfulOrca]

I think it's probably pretty bad for Char. BW cancels out dthrow->fair being true for him, and he's too large and heavy to not be combod into oblivion. Luckily, Char can avoid edgeguard attempts, and kills pretty early, but Bayo also has surprising range on her attacks, and is much faster for certain. I dunno, it's probably about 45-55 in Bayo's favor IMO.

Not much else to add here. Charizard doesn't have many options to escape our combos, apart from airdodging and good DI. Overall, I think that Bayo wins, though by how much I'm not entirely sure.

 

[DeadLuckChris]

60/40 in bayo favor imo

 

[kendikong]

Pretty difficult to beat out any of her multiple hitboxes, you really have to play it patiently with bait and punish tactics.

She can die pretty early though. Bayo dies at 50% from bair at the ledge. And Charizard can live pretty long against her if you know to avoid her kill attempts.

 

[Pixel_]

60/40 in bayo favor imo

explain more pls

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I think it's probably pretty bad for Char. BW cancels out dthrow->fair being true for him, and he's too large and heavy to not be combod into oblivion. Luckily, Char can avoid edgeguard attempts, and kills pretty early, but Bayo also has surprising range on her attacks, and is much faster for certain. I dunno, it's probably about 45-55 in Bayo's favor IMO.

She can't BW if you get the timing down. She literally cannot do anything if you do it as frame perfect as you can with Zard.

She has long combos but she can't kill you off them. You have every tool to get out of her stuff if she tries to carry you to the top or the sides.

She doesn't have a great neutral and loses out to longer disjoints. Her disjoints aren't scary outside of bair, everything else you can avoid easily on reaction.

Always watch out for her Witch Time and just go for Uthrow kills or punish her Witch Time with Usmash.

We gotta go in on her due to Bullet Arts but nothing is really to the point her it is super imposing.

 

[Flamegeyser]

She can't BW if you get the timing down. She literally cannot do anything if you do it as frame perfect as you can with Zard.

She has long combos but she can't kill you off them. You have every tool to get out of her stuff if she tries to carry you to the top or the sides.

She doesn't have a great neutral and loses out to longer disjoints. Her disjoints aren't scary outside of bair, everything else you can avoid easily on reaction.

Always watch out for her Witch Time and just go for Uthrow kills or punish her Witch Time with Usmash.

We gotta go in on her due to Bullet Arts but nothing is really to the point her it is super imposing.

Are you sure about the frame perfect thing? Everywhere else I've heard (as well as my own experience) says that it can't be done. Don't let me stop you from trying though.

Anyways, as a Bayo main, Charizard's large frame and somewhat lacking speed make it difficult for him to really threaten Bayo. It doesn't help that he's BC food, and his airspeed is pretty low (even compared to bayo). Also, Bayo doesn't have to rely on Witch Time, and just "punishing" it isn't enough, since counters are a 50/50 on either end.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Are you sure about the frame perfect thing? Everywhere else I've heard (as well as my own experience) says that it can't be done. Don't let me stop you from trying though.

Anyways, as a Bayo main, Charizard's large frame and somewhat lacking speed make it difficult for him to really threaten Bayo. It doesn't help that he's BC food, and his airspeed is pretty low (even compared to bayo). Also, Bayo doesn't have to rely on Witch Time, and just "punishing" it isn't enough, since counters are a 50/50 on either end.

I'm pretty sure on it with the frame perfect part. Could be wrong but I'm not sure she can get out of it like that.

For Witch Time having a good punish for something like that is important as well as an easy way to just avoid the situation, One of the best Uthrow kills in the game, helps with it.