Character counterpick discussion thread

[Kulty]

Hi guys,

This thread is basically similar to the main advice thread, but it's a little bit different. The purpose of this thread is to help you find a secondary or to find a character to help your main's hardest matchup. Choosing a main and a secondary can be a difficult task to some of you Smashers out there (myself included). So many things you have to consider when you pick up a character if you want to play at a tournament level and if you're a true competitive player. Post your main and you can ask advice for a character suggestion like character X loses to character Y, but if you pick character Z, he may have an advantage against character Y. So that's basically the purpose of this thread. It will be very helpful if you guys can help others picking up their characters. Hope that this thread will be helpful to some of you out there.

Who can cover some of my mains' weaknesses among them?

 

[Kulty]

So I will open this up. My main is and I'm trying to find for a character that can help Mario's bad matchup (even if he's a viable solo main character). Basically, I try to pick a character that can cover Mario's weaknesses at the same time which are :

• Sub-par attack range (I want a character that has great attack range)
  
• Sub-par recovery (I want a character that has a great recovery, not predictable, not gimpable, not short-distanced)
• No frontal approach (minor issue, but I want a character that can approach easily)
• Trouble finishing off stocks due to lack of reliable kill setups (minor issue, but I want a character that can possibly have great kill setups or great KO moves in general)

I can consider the first two points really important, and the other four a minor. Based on these criterias, the only characters that I can think of that fit all of these four main points are . Are there any other characters that can fit all these four criterias at the same time? Also, for you Mario mains, who do you think is the best character (not picking) that can help cover Mario's weaknesses or Mario's hard matchups? I'm really not sure if is the perfect character for , so I need your help. So hard for me to find the best character for Mario without relying on characters like.

 

[Underhill]

I would go with , , or . Its your choice.

I'll go over why later if you want because I'm alittle busy right now.

 

[Kulty]

I would go with , , or . Its your choice.

I'll go over why later if you want because I'm alittle busy right now.

Well, the three characters don't cover Mario's main weakness which is attack range. The three characters have very poor range (well I feel they really do have poor range) and I just want characters that have decent attack range along with a great recovery that has a hitbox, that can be mixup, that covers a long distance and not easily gimpable.

 

[Underhill]

Well, the three characters don't cover Mario's main weakness which is attack range. The three characters have very poor range (well I feel they really do have poor range) and I just want characters that have decent attack range along with a great recovery that has a hitbox, that can be mixup, that covers a long distance and not easily gimpable.

Well if those three don't work for you, then I would go with , , , , or . Otherwise, Its all that I can give you, man XD

I don't know what else to tell you, but you'll might have to pick weakness, accept it, and get around it like I did with my mains( as well), and mix up your playstyle. I'm not trying to be mean anything, but I'm just doing my best to help you out. Anyway, hopefully my help can get you something.

 

[Kulty]

Well if those three don't work for you, then I would go with , , , , or . Otherwise, Its all that I can give you, man XD

I don't know what else to tell you, but you'll might have to pick weakness, accept it, and get around it like I did with my mains( as well), and mix up your playstyle. I'm not trying to be mean anything, but I'm just doing my best to help you out. Anyway, hopefully my help can get you something.

What do you think about ? Is he a good character for? Technically, I enjoybased on the characters you suggested to me. Do people pick secondaries just to cover his main bad matchups or to cover a character's weaknesses?

 

[Underhill]

What do you think about ? Is he a good character for? Technically, I enjoybased on the characters you suggested to me. Do people pick secondaries just to cover his main bad matchups or to cover a character's weaknesses?

Well, he has decent appoarches, range, jiggle tools, good ground speed, amazing recovery, and good frame data even though he has trouble killing. However, I don't main him and play him as more of a causality character and play against MK players so go for him if you want; Your choice. I don't play Villager.

That depends on the person because everyone plays their Mario different and have their own playstyle. For me, I switch to my othet mains if I struggle with a MU as Mario or don't have confidents with Mario based on the MU. Sometimes, I'll switch if I get bored with my Mario.

 

[Kulty]

Well, he has decent appoarches, range, jiggle tools, good ground speed, amazing recovery, and good frame data even though he has trouble killing. However, I don't main him and play him as more of a causality character and play against MK players so go for him if you want; Your choice. I don't play Villager.

That depends on the person because everyone plays their Mario different and have their own playstyle. For me, I switch to my othet mains if I struggle with a MU as Mario or don't have confidents with Mario based on the MU. Sometimes, I'll switch if I get bored with my Mario.

Okay. I may try . Now I`m trying to find a character that can help. What are the bad matchups that are common for both characters (I know, but who else)? The only common weakness that has imo is trouble finishing off a stock (less an issue for Mario at high percents compared to Meta Knight, but less an issue for Meta Knight at low percents). I don't know if there's other common weakness between the two.

 

[Underhill]

Okay. I may try . Now I`m trying to find a character that can help. What are the bad matchups that are common for both characters (I know, but who else)? The only common weakness that has imo is trouble finishing off a stock (less an issue for Mario at high percents compared to Meta Knight, but less an issue for Meta Knight at low percents). I don't know if there's other common weakness between the two.

I don't know the much about MK so I'll try to answer as I can, but I suggest going to the Meta Knight boards for his MUs to get a better answer. While he does better against and (even MU) than, I think he struggles against ,, and . Both have even MUs with ,,,, and .

 

[Kulty]

I don't know the much about MK so I'll try to answer as I can, but I suggest going to the Meta Knight boards for his MUs to get a better answer. While he does better against and (even MU) than, I think he struggles against ,, and . Both have even MUs with ,,,, and .

Maybe what I'll try to do is that I try to find another character that I enjoy along withand find the character that can cover my both characters' bad matchups or common weakness. That's a problem already since I enjoy so many characters (my favorites being )

 

[Underhill]

Maybe what I'll try to do is that I try to find another character that I enjoy along withand find the character that can cover my both characters' bad matchups or common weakness. That's a problem already since I enjoy so many characters (my favorites being )

That's work. Pick the character that you loved playing with the most first, then go from there. But remember, every character has a weakness and skill is involved even if the character that you pick does better in that MU than Mario or MK so don't forget to adapt, play aggressive, but stay safe and mix up, read, punish, and add patients as well.

 

[Kulty]

That's work. Pick the character that you loved playing with the most first, then go from there. But remember, every character has a weakness and skill is involved even if the character that you pick does better in that MU than Mario or MK so don't forget to adapt, play aggressive, but stay safe and mix up, read, punish, and add patients as well.

All right. Gotta do some lab and find out which character is the best one for me along with Mario. I`ll come back to this thread to see the best character to pick with my two characters including Mario. It might be long, but I'll come back later on. There might be other characters than the ones I`ve mentionned that I enjoy, but I'll see. Thanks man! I appreciate your help. Maybe I might reject as my second main, but if he can help and my other character that I`ve chosen, I'll most likely pick him up again.

 

[Kulty]

Okay... So after some lab work, there are two characters that I'm struggling to choose between for my second main with which are or. Who is the better character for Mario? I maybe though of , because of better range, better approach and better recovery (with Jump Monado) than. However, has better frame data, easier consistent KOs, better mobility than. I want to hear what you guys have to say about it.

 

[Underhill]

Okay... So after some lab work, there are two characters that I'm struggling to choose between for my second main with which are or. Who is the better character for Mario? I maybe though of , because of better range, better approach and better recovery (with Jump Monado) than. However, has better frame data, easier consistent KOs, better mobility than. I want to hear what you guys have to say about it.

Pick both of them if you enjoy playing with them. Otherwise, pick whoever you enjoy the most, not based on their strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Kulty]

Pick both of them if you enjoy playing with them. Otherwise, pick whoever you enjoy the most, not based on their strengths and weaknesses.

I thinkis my pick for a character. I really do prefer a recovery that even though it's gimpable, at least it's not that hard for Shulk to come back on stage with Jump Monado Art (with great air speed and jump height). I also like Shulk, because he can adapt to almost any given situation compared to. Btw, do you know common bad matchups?

 

[Underhill]

I thinkis my pick for a character. I really do prefer a recovery that even though it's gimpable, at least it's not that hard for Shulk to come back on stage with Jump Monado Art (with great air speed and jump height). I also like Shulk, because he can adapt to almost any given situation compared to. Btw, do you know common bad matchups?

I don't play as Shulk that much or know that many Shulk match-ups; He's my causal character. If you want to go for him, then go ahead, Its your choice.

 

[Kulty]

I don't play as Shulk that much or know that many Shulk match-ups; He's my causal character. If you want to go for him, then go ahead, Its your choice.

Shulk is my character. I just have to find the bad matchups that both struggles, but it might take a while.