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Can you guys critique my peach and give me tips, New tourny new videos!

WhiteOblv

Smash Ace
Joined
May 1, 2006
Messages
914
Location
fountain of dreamz
Ok so i went to another monthly guys! I've got more vids for you guys to critiq lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HjLLv-GqSY

and then

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjPWKFfFYYY

sept. monthly ^^^^^^
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October monthly (this past sat) vvvvvvvvvv

Now at this tournament i made it out of pools 2nd seed into bracket. i went 1-2 in bracket. During my run i beat one of our ranked players, then be 2 other close 2 or about to be ranked players in my city. However even tho the matches I'm showing you guys I win all sets except one, but i feel i played bad, or nervous and stuff so forgive the none optimal play.

Never the less the rust is pretty much off now after a 3 year hiatus so yay!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2lFZDaB2f4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP5db7_tBDA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OJFaNtKQoo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wY1fG-I7GmM
 
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Meredy

The Busterina
Joined
Feb 6, 2014
Messages
311
Against that Marth you needed to be reacting to his recovery. You'll notice that he constantly tried to sweetspot the ledge, a playstyle that is very easily countered by simply grabbing the ledge, which you had a nice amount of time to do.

Apart from that, I like what I see. Maybe cut back on the spot dodges, because if you get into that habit people will start to see through it and punish you for it hard. Maybe some more turnips too.
 
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Gatoray

Smash Journeyman
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May 9, 2013
Messages
276
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Internet
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Gatoray
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Armada's Marth matchup guide is really helpful. I suggest giving it a read: http://meleeiton.me/2014/08/24/armadas-matchup-guide-to-peach-vs-marth/

Armada says it in the guide, but you need to be pulling waaaay more turnips. There's a little minigame you play vs. Marth, it's called "try to have a turnip in hand at all times." If you follow this rule, and stay out of range of Marth's sword, sure your opponent will hate you afterward, but at least you'll win.
 

Oaty

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Messages
43
Location
Altamonte Springs, FL
Really quick I know everyone likes to watch armada videos (which are super helpful btw) but I would also like to point out this set. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEnBZ-kUEhc I think it can help a lot to watch this. It's a good example of a less ideal way to play a MU and still be very successful.

I'll do your ganon set since everyone seems to be ignoring it and I come from Florida which is densely populated with ganon mains.
Before I start don't listen to the commentators. They say some things that are either
A.) flat out wrong or
B.) obvious info you should already know.
They weren't bad but don't listen to them for ways to improve your game.

Rolls
First of you roll in too much vs ganon for example at 3:43 you roll into ganon and go past him if the ganon were faster he easily could have gotten a grab and from there he can do down throw into a guaranteed follow up. I feel like there were a lot of OoS options that you should have used before the roll in. I would say Nair OoS or Up air OoS could easily cover a lot of ganons options in this specific situation. Also if you wanna know why roll in is so bad just look at 4:19 when he kills you because he covered the option.

Okay so besides rolling in you just roll too much at around 7:37 you roll away towards ledge for spacing reasons but a float out of shield is better in every way in this situation. Just float high enough that his DownB can't touch you and you are good.

Approaching Ganon
This part is actually pretty simple and your approach wasn't even bad. You dash attacked far too much though ganon can punish with full hop Dair and that can be brutal because he has some follow ups. Honestly against ganon I would run up FC Nair or grab instead of dash attack both options work much better.

Spacing
Your spacing was good and bad it varied a lot throughout the set. Vs ganon you need to stay out of his hitboxes like you would against Marth. Something that makes Peach vs ganon challenging is her lack of good trading options (something she has against a lot of other characters.) Basically Ganon can constantly throw out hitboxes and you have to space around it. Turnips are a good way to deal with this. I recommend throwing turnips while airborne against ganon (unlike vs Marth) because grounded turnips actually don't limit too many of his options considering he's probably fishing for aerials. If you space outside of his Bair and Fair it is easy to use turnips to cover his landing options and then approach and continue assaulting him. Honestly if Tribulation was more aggresive with Dair he could've gotten a lot more approaches on you because of how you didn't cover this option. Basically with spacing it plays similar to the marth MU just wait outside his hitboxes or get inside of him if you are in the ganon zone then it's going to be a very unpleasant ride.

Edgeguarding Ganon
This is easier than you might think. Ganon does have Mix ups that do make it a lil challenging, but I think Peach can edgeguard him without trying too hard. I mainly believe this because of Turnips ability to cover a lot of his options, his inability to sweetspot the ledge, and the huge amount of landing lag that goes with him landing on stage. Throwing out a turnip blocks his downB low recovery and FC Dair to Nair covers his lack of sweet spot, so does bair but this can be teched along with how Bair can be Di'd out of so keep that in mind.

Also,when ganon gets on stage there are better options than just forward or back throw especially when he is at low or mid percents. FC Nair or Fair can work really well. If he lands in front of you with your back to edge than go for a dsmash 9 times out of 10 players won't cancel the hit so they get sent towards center stage and the knockback is generally higher than Back throw.

Panic Downsmash
Okay so this is a huge problem for a lot of Peach mains it seems. Once your opponent starts pressuring your room and you begin to feel the game slipping a lot of us will start throwing out down smash to try and comeback and regain momentum this usually does the exact opposite of what it's intended purpose is and I saw you panic Dsmash in a couple of the games when the Ganon took control of momentum. Basically this comes down to keeping a cool head and remembering that it's not 2004 and that Peach's Dsmash can't carry you to victory anymore.


Honestly good stuff and congrats on second place. Sorry if this info isn't helpful I like to think I understand the MU but who knows FL Ganons could just be playing it wrong lol.
 
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MTL Kyle

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
269
Watch out for the height of your float and you will get 2 times better.
 

MTL Kyle

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
269
This. A nice position for neutral game is just below platform height.
Technically, a nice position in neutral game is not floating at all.
Floating preemptively reduces your array of options and commits you into losing one of your recoveries.

But this is just silly theorycraft and this is more match-up/PvP depending.
 

WhiteOblv

Smash Ace
Joined
May 1, 2006
Messages
914
Location
fountain of dreamz
hey guys thanks for replying. I felt bad about how I did that set w/ the ganon the entire time I knew I wasn't playing it right. oh well

2nd place isn't all that bad! =)

What exactly is the float height? dreamland platform height or battle filed/yoshis platform height?

Yeah I gotta watch my dsmashes. I feel I ONLY really do it when im being pressured like Oaty mentioned.

Outside of match up knowledge for ganon and marth. How is my peach game over all?

Keep in mind that this was my first tournament back in the scene after a 3 year hiatus (I stopped playing like a month or so after pound 5) and that same day I had just bought a new WII so I was jus trying to play the best I could

thanks again guys, if I get more matches recorded ill post them here.
 

MTL Kyle

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
269
h
2nd place isn't all that bad! =)
there is one place that matters, 1st, everything else is trash.


What exactly is the float height? dreamland platform height or battle filed/yoshis platform height?
The correct float height is the one where he has to commit jumping or doing a laggy move to catch you.
Even more important than the height is the distance, where you can chose if you do a retreating aerial or an offensive one.

Yeah I gotta watch my dsmashes. I feel I ONLY really do it when im being pressured like Oaty mentioned.
Well, tbh, D-Smash is bad at 90% of the times and pretty overrated. It's hard to explain where you should use it because it covers a lot of stuff in some situations, but people should use it less often.

Outside of match up knowledge for ganon and marth. How is my peach game over all?
Your Peach game is fine, but always watch out. Peach is the kind of character that you can do suboptimal options and get away with it. This doesn't help you improve as a player, it just helps you get the W.

Whenever you rewatch your sets, focus in being more optimal with punishes and then things will skyrocket.
 

WhiteOblv

Smash Ace
Joined
May 1, 2006
Messages
914
Location
fountain of dreamz
thanks Kyle.

I agree with everything you said. The thing you said about second place was a tough thing to read but you are right.


I've got a secondary in marth (used to main him back in 06-08 era) I guess I can spend more time on since peach doesnt help me much as far as becoming a Better player is concerned.
 

MTL Kyle

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
269
thanks Kyle.

I agree with everything you said. The thing you said about second place was a tough thing to read but you are right.


I've got a secondary in marth (used to main him back in 06-08 era) I guess I can spend more time on since peach doesnt help me much as far as becoming a Better player is concerned.
Hum... it really depends.

For example, let's say I'm an ICs main that wobbles a **** load. If I abuse the wobbling, I will lose the possibility of learning other situational grab combos (because Nana might not be in the right position) or even how to develop a better neutral game and get the upper-hand in a lot of situations.

Instead, I can just sit back, wait for a mistake and have the ultimate punish ever (a whole stock where DI doesn't matter, I don't have to edgeguard and if I mess up, I don't get punished for it).

That is aiming for the W, not for the improvement.

Like, right now that you are watching the video, you can pause in some parts and think what you could have done better. Where you could have shieldgrabbed or FC N-air OoS to punish dumb shield pressure. Where instead of downsmashing you can extend combos and deal more damage and get more stage control.

The beauty of watching Armada is that he barely uses down-smash, when he uses more than 5 times in a match, you know he will lose it. He relies on grab follow-ups, techchases, air combos and perfect edgeguard. Being optimal on Peach REALLY pays off. She is a character that has bad neutral options, but REALLY good punishes and conversion tools.

While Marth will teach you better spacing, movement and small punishes, I'm a big advocate of sticking with your character and overcome it's weaknesses.
 

MTL Kyle

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
269
I didn't watch the sets entirely yet but I like the fact you started floating in a good height... but then now you are approaching from kilometers by just floating.
When you do this, you are limiting yourself to an array of options and being susceptible to anti-air moves.
 
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