Bring Back Topic Grab Release.

[Noraa]

Wasnt some one messing with lucas grab release to dtilt trip and certain %?
Would anyone be willing to look at this mybe, it would be nice to see something progress from it.

Thanks

 

[ToxiCrow]

lucas has a grab release to ftilt on Ness. he can also regrab ness again (kinda like marth's chaingrab on ness)

here's the old thread
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=202134

 

[FireKirby7]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=202134
I still remember to use it on Marths.

EDIT: I'm too slow!

 

[Levitas]

toxicrow, only grab release to ftilt. regrab gives ness a window to escape.

FK7, the grab release to downtilt doesn't really work if my suspicions are correct with the same escape window that ness has for the regrab.

I'll check frames today.

 

[Irsic]

It...isn't guaranteed.

 

[Levitas]

In that case, they do only have a 2 frame window (or they can hold shield, lol)

 

[FireKirby7]

Well, it still works sometimes... No one will expect it, it could really catch someone off gaurd.
It wouldn't hurt just randomly throwing it out.

 

[prOAPC]

lucas has a grab release to ftilt on Ness. he can also regrab ness again (kinda like marth's chaingrab on ness)

here's the old thread
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=202134

i think that Pink Fresh was the one who talked about the chain grab on ness, and it was something like: grab+release+dtilt (trip)+grab again. You have enough time to move and space yourself to trip Ness

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

toxicrow, only grab release to ftilt. regrab gives ness a window to escape.

FK7, the grab release to downtilt doesn't really work if my suspicions are correct with the same escape window that ness has for the regrab.

I'll check frames today.

Man I've said it before....THE ReLEASE GRAB ON NESS IS ESCAPABLE but you can catch them off gaurd and the time window they have to escape is still pretty small so if they miss it by even a little they get regrabbed...I'm tired of people calling stuff useless if its escappable....this isn't melee and never will be. There aren't many inescapable tatics in this game so just because something can be escaped doesn't make is useless

 

[ToxiCrow]

toxicrow, only grab release to ftilt. regrab gives ness a window to escape.

Man I've said it before....THE ReLEASE GRAB ON NESS IS ESCAPABLE but you can catch them off gaurd and the time window they have to escape is still pretty small so if they miss it by even a little they get regrabbed...I'm tired of people calling stuff useless if its escappable

^^^^
i agree with everything thats bold and underlined

 

[Levitas]

Jeez, when I say it's escapable with a window, I don't mean don't ever do it.

I mean it's escapable.

 

[ToxiCrow]

well it kinda came off that way because you said only grab release to ftilt
but w/e no one is hurt and we're all friends here....another great day at the Lucas Boards <3

 

[Levitas]

lol, I noticed that my imposing red name had made my posts sound much more intense over the last few days, so I'm trying to use more faces to get the tone right ^_^

in any event, my bad for the lack of clarity.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

i think that Pink Fresh was the one who talked about the chain grab on ness, and it was something like: grab+release+dtilt (trip)+grab again. You have enough time to move and space yourself to trip Ness

Ya, it was deemed useless, though nobody tested it. >_>


Oh! hey levi! can you find out hitbox information with debug mode?

i still think the tip of the dtilt is a 100% trip rate.
it doesn't make much sense [to me] to have the tip the only place it trips, and not have 100% guaranteed trip.

 

[ToxiCrow]

lol, I noticed that my imposing red name had made my posts sound much more intense over the last few days, so I'm trying to use more faces to get the tone right ^_^

in any event, my bad for the lack of clarity.

hah this comment made me chuckle

Ya, it was deemed useless, though nobody tested it. >_>

then it looks like we hav some work to do. nothing should be deemed useless unless it is thoroughly tested.
as for the GR dtilt, it works on peach and charizard. by the time you take a step towards ness, i think he can just jump away or jab

 

[Levitas]

Ya, it was deemed useless, though nobody tested it. >_>


Oh! hey levi! can you find out hitbox information with debug mode?

i still think the tip of the dtilt is a 100% trip rate.
it doesn't make much sense [to me] to have the tip the only place it trips, and not have 100% guaranteed trip.

I'll check this out in debug.

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

I have my doubts about it having a 100% trip rate but I could be wrong

 

[Levitas]

it isn't a 100% trip. However, if you spam it, it will generally wait until you're at a certain spacing before it seems to have a 50% trip chance (which happens for a bunch of dtilts), so it's understandable to think it always trips once it hits a certain spacing.

If you don't believe me, try spacing them. You'll get something like 50% trips. then get nice and close and spam dtilt. it'll almost always trip within a few dtilts once it's entered the tripping spacing.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

=(
that's weird.
i was able to get ness all the way across smashville by doing the grab release thing. meh fair enough.

 

[Galeon]

That's one thing that always bugged me about Lucas. Gotta sweetspot it to make it have a 50% chance, so dumb (I still use it but the whole thing should be 50%). And the tip is deceptive. It's past his foot. The air past your foot makes the trip.

Also kept telling myself I would try doing it out of shield on ranges where luck might shine on me but never started doing it. Ftilt and jabs are just... too good. I have had some luck using it after bounce jabs (that range where your first jab hits at a certain distance and the hitbox actually gives knockback so the second jab whiffs but the opponent is stunned a little) like jab, dtilt and at certain %s with full hop dair on grounded opponents where jab would combo for free. Got a dair, dtilt, sidesmash on someone for the kill (not talking about jab lock, just stun into dtilt just before the %s where dair would force the tech, like against Snake at 75% undiminished). Problem with this is that you have to kind of follow their di and then have it trip so it requires nasty reaction time or prediction AND some luck for the trip.

But this isn't about uses for dtilt, it's about grab releases. So, carry on >_>

OH, and I've tried grab release to dtilt and the problem to me seems that it's kinda hopeful. I remember having a Snake just spam ftilt after grab release to see if I could beat it with dtilt. Went basically back and forth and if I was the unfortunate one, I took the nastiness. If he got beat, it was like 8% and then I better hope it trips him cause if it didn't, I get ftilted anyways at like any point he was under 150. But if I did beat his attack and it did trip, the sad part was that I couldn't react and side smash. He'd have time to get up and move if he was on his toes. I had to commit to sidesmashing even before I knew the dtilt was gonna hit.

Dtilt is like, what? 6 frames or something? I'd assume most chars would just spam their fastest attack on grab release or just ***** out and pick a roll direction. So I wouldn't recommend that people do it...

But **** happens, go lucky hits (I soooo need to upload this vid of my magnet pull beating metaknight's up-b and knocking him into norfair lava).

 

[Levitas]

dtilt hits on 3, some jabs happen first.

If you grab release to dtilt and snake ftilts, you'll be first if you time it right no matter what.

 

[ToxiCrow]

most chars when they get released arent close enough to get hit with dtilt
i'll usually go for ftilt out of a grab release, but i no that some chars can get hit by dtilt. peach, charizard and marth can all get hit out of a GR by dtilt

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

and ness... don't forget ness.

 

[Yoshi-Kirby]

I don't think Ness can, everytime I grab a Ness (no homo), I try to Dtilt, and it never reaches him.

 

[ToxiCrow]

yeah. you hav to take a step towards ness before dtilt hits him
u dont hav to step towards the other guys i mentioned

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

it may not seem like you can do it on ness, but you can. you have 7 frames (i think) to take a step before using dtilt.

 

[Teh Future]

If anything a grab release thread should be made showing what every character can to lucas with his dumb grab release.

Everyone knows about what Marth can do to Lucas/Ness, but plenty of other character have stupid stuff they can do. Im pretty sure Metaknight and Ness can both dash grab release us to the edge, and bowser has a ridiculous number of options including a regrab that moves forward not very much, and Im sure just about every character will have something they can do to us.

 

[Irsic]

If anything a grab release thread should be made showing what every character can to lucas with his dumb grab release.

I already made a topic on this a while ago, that's why the title says "Bring Back topic .." I just can't find the link to it.

I also did some rankings on which characters this worked effectively on, and which characters it didn't. Needs to be updated badly though, with better research and more information. If it gets bumped and people start discussing it, I'll update it for sure.

 

[ToxiCrow]

I just can't find the link to it.

I also did some rankings on which characters this worked effectively on, and which characters it didn't. Needs to be updated badly though, with better research and more information. If it gets bumped and people start discussing it, I'll update it for sure.

i posted it earlier in this thread. i'll bump it right now
EDIT: i bumped it

 

[Levitas]

I guess I can get a conclusive list of this. It'll be a pain, but it's worth knowing.