Hitman JT
The Infinite One
WTF happened to your god-status?
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Social Bowser's Castle
- Thread starter Zigsta
- Start date
I got demoted, but it's not really a bad thing. I can focus more on helping people and posting data. Nothing's changed really, if people ask me about moderation then I can still help by pointing them in the right direction.
LIQUID12A
Smash Modder
Kurogane got hammered.
D
Deleted member 189823
Guest
HEY GUYS LOOK AT MY AVATAR
LIQUID12A
Smash Modder
It's lovely.
That is a lovely happy sun holding two chocolate bars.
That is a lovely happy sun holding two chocolate bars.
Boozer
Smash Apprentice
Grizzlpaw
Rawr~ ♪
Soooo, I guess it's about time I started posting here 
Sup turtles! I've started getting a lot more serious with my bowser lately, still pri much suck with him, but I've noticed my fundamentals growing a lot more quickly when playing bowser than with any other character. Not 100% why that is (maybe because he needs solid fundamentals to succeed?) Hope to start posting here more often as I start learning him more.
Btw Hi Aero~
Sup turtles! I've started getting a lot more serious with my bowser lately, still pri much suck with him, but I've noticed my fundamentals growing a lot more quickly when playing bowser than with any other character. Not 100% why that is (maybe because he needs solid fundamentals to succeed?) Hope to start posting here more often as I start learning him more.
Btw Hi Aero~
even more reason not to
Ant Man was surprisingly good. Lots of appreciation for rule of fun.
Jerodak
Smash Lord
Do you force the other team to eat that many raisins if you win?That's the symbol for the crew I'm in, 2Scoops.
Vampire
Smash Rookie
MrEh
Smash Hero
I don't understand.
Jerodak
Smash Lord
Recently attended a local, It was the first offline smash 4 event I have been to so far. Managed to take one game off the number five in the state, but I got exposed in the next two matches. Did pretty well overall till I finally got 2-0'd by uncle in round 4. I finished in 13th place out of 35 with 3 wins and 2 losses. The match were I got exposed was on stream; I'll have it posted as soon as I see it.
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What to do vs Sonic and Zero Skill Samus?
Other than cry bitterly.
Other than cry bitterly.
MrEh
Smash Hero
The most hilarious can happen against ZSS when you try to do the jab 1 Bowser Bomb frame trap.
If she mashes Jab, Bowser actually ducks underneath it. :B
If she mashes Jab, Bowser actually ducks underneath it. :B
Corgian
Smash Apprentice
Having Nick Riddle
, Static Manny, and TrueBlue in my scene, the best advice I can give is to play as patiently and calmly as possible. Both match-ups can take forever, but you have to go for the safest options you have. Down-Tilt does well to stop Sonic's spin-dash, and you can up-tilt to occasionally catch Sonic's homing attack after you perfect shield it. You can also pivot grab Sonic if he tried to do the homing attack while you're above him. I completely forgot what I did against Nick Riddle's ZSS, but I challenged him to a money match recently, so when that happens I'll get an hour of friendlies with him and learn the match-up a bit more. I do remember that we can punish some of ZSS's specials pretty well, but I just don't remember how.
@
Corgian
TrueBlue is who knocked me into losers! I did take him to last hit though, I didn't realize he was considered a good player, I would have likely done a lot worse against him lol.
He was rocking hammer which I consider very difficult for bowser. I agree that patience is totally key. It may feel annoying how a sonic can rush and rush out without getting punished. You know what though? If your holding shield you take 0 damage, so it's totally neutral. Against hammer consider the spacing. If you rush in can he hammer you? Then don't rush in. This rule of thumb means you almost never rush in because hammer is crazy. The one option a sonic player has to beat your shield, is to shield cancel some of his approaches. On reaction you usually should be able to fortress OOS. This, as annoying as it sounds, should be your B&B. Getting a sonic to kill % 8% at a time sucks but it is what it is. Another potential (that i don't personally employ because I don't know the timing yet) is up smashing a homing attack. Although good sonics really shouldn't be using that move too much. The rest of the opportunities are just tricks. Dash grabbing when you think they will charge. Bowser bombing very low when landing (that worked on true blue!) Down tilting rolls, if they roll, etc etc.
You can generally play a lot less safe against non-hammer but the tournament scene is all hammer right now, so that's where this advice is coming from.
Edit: I thought this was Match Up Topic post for a second.
Corgian
TrueBlue is who knocked me into losers! I did take him to last hit though, I didn't realize he was considered a good player, I would have likely done a lot worse against him lol.He was rocking hammer which I consider very difficult for bowser. I agree that patience is totally key. It may feel annoying how a sonic can rush and rush out without getting punished. You know what though? If your holding shield you take 0 damage, so it's totally neutral. Against hammer consider the spacing. If you rush in can he hammer you? Then don't rush in. This rule of thumb means you almost never rush in because hammer is crazy. The one option a sonic player has to beat your shield, is to shield cancel some of his approaches. On reaction you usually should be able to fortress OOS. This, as annoying as it sounds, should be your B&B. Getting a sonic to kill % 8% at a time sucks but it is what it is. Another potential (that i don't personally employ because I don't know the timing yet) is up smashing a homing attack. Although good sonics really shouldn't be using that move too much. The rest of the opportunities are just tricks. Dash grabbing when you think they will charge. Bowser bombing very low when landing (that worked on true blue!) Down tilting rolls, if they roll, etc etc.
You can generally play a lot less safe against non-hammer but the tournament scene is all hammer right now, so that's where this advice is coming from.
Edit: I thought this was Match Up Topic post for a second.
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Corgian
Smash Apprentice
@
Big Sean
http://smashboards.com/threads/official-florida-power-rankings-6-17-15.406727/
SFL Power Rankings. He used to be #6 back in April but he got bapped down to #10.
Also, due to the guy that runs the tournaments at Versus being out of town today, DC will be hosting a low-tier tourney. Time to make top 3
I don't think I'll be able to beat Ed's Zelda because I have 0 match-up knowledge. If Esam shows up, I'll have to try to bap his Samus. Dath is also a threat because the Robin v Bowser matchup is really weird, but I think I can take him.
Big Sean
http://smashboards.com/threads/official-florida-power-rankings-6-17-15.406727/SFL Power Rankings. He used to be #6 back in April but he got bapped down to #10.
Also, due to the guy that runs the tournaments at Versus being out of town today, DC will be hosting a low-tier tourney. Time to make top 3
I don't think I'll be able to beat Ed's Zelda because I have 0 match-up knowledge. If Esam shows up, I'll have to try to bap his Samus. Dath is also a threat because the Robin v Bowser matchup is really weird, but I think I can take him.
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Cassius.
you're deadMEAT.
Just for the love of God remember walking is an option. All of those characters are at a considerable disadvantage if you do happen to power shield any ranged attack (missiles, ZAir, arc whatever)
Tome spells are punishable on whiff anyway so I guess that's not very helpful. Against arc fire you can just reset to neutral again. Each spell he wastes trying to box you out means one less spell you have to deal with when he starts to run out (if you can count his spell numbers, even better so you don't lose out on a trade if you try to punish his last spell use). You have six minutes, so if you think something doesn't really warrant a rush-in attempt from you, then just chill.
You can try to roll in if you do get a read on his arc fire. On arc thunder that won't work, but jumping over spells is also a valid option. Power shields put you at frame advantage and they have cool down on their shots, so you can do PS-> Down B or any punish you think is reasonable based on your advantage state. If you get a pretty hard read on his projectile use, you can get a short hop or full hop Klaw since Robin will be in the middle of cooldown, and his frame data's not good enough to beat it out. That applies to samus as well but she really has no business shooting too much of anything depending on how close you are lol
Elwind is so free on recovery. You can use anything that hits below the ledge and probably catch Robin (dtilt, short hop DAir, bomb, fire breath, etc). Be aware of Elwind gimps if you're trying to recover, though.
I have no idea about Zelda, but she does have a teleport recovery, so the DAir tech will probably work on her with good timing...it has a hitbox, so I'm not sure, but it's worth a shot anyway. It won't damage you since she'll just be grabbing the ledge lol
Although, I did just think about this. When/after Zelda puts the input in to teleport to the ledge, she probably can just hold down so the hitbox stays out. Maybe it's not a good idea.
Just play solid, be patient. I don't know if you've played other fighting games but the rules of the most basic fireball games in neutral still apply.
I've been experimenting with this more since Jero mentioned it (was it him?), but you can also try and get a running up-b to go underneath a few projectiles/ZAirs and aerials that are poorly spaced, and sometimes even properly spaced as well since his hurtbox is reduced in size. Bowser can upb to get under arc fire as its coming down/out of robin's hands, kind of like that last second slide under a shutting chamber door in movies or something like that. And usually if someone is airborne and landing, you can go for upb anyway as they have no way to avoid it at that point, especially if they don't have a lot of stage space to work with. At that point, they have to either trade with an aerial, land on the ledge (which will allow you to recover from up-b use in time) or get lucky, land on stage and shield. But if you're hot on their ass with that, it's probably not an option. It's not something I would recommend as an option you use every time, but just be aware that it exists.
Tome spells are punishable on whiff anyway so I guess that's not very helpful. Against arc fire you can just reset to neutral again. Each spell he wastes trying to box you out means one less spell you have to deal with when he starts to run out (if you can count his spell numbers, even better so you don't lose out on a trade if you try to punish his last spell use). You have six minutes, so if you think something doesn't really warrant a rush-in attempt from you, then just chill.
You can try to roll in if you do get a read on his arc fire. On arc thunder that won't work, but jumping over spells is also a valid option. Power shields put you at frame advantage and they have cool down on their shots, so you can do PS-> Down B or any punish you think is reasonable based on your advantage state. If you get a pretty hard read on his projectile use, you can get a short hop or full hop Klaw since Robin will be in the middle of cooldown, and his frame data's not good enough to beat it out. That applies to samus as well but she really has no business shooting too much of anything depending on how close you are lol
Elwind is so free on recovery. You can use anything that hits below the ledge and probably catch Robin (dtilt, short hop DAir, bomb, fire breath, etc). Be aware of Elwind gimps if you're trying to recover, though.
I have no idea about Zelda, but she does have a teleport recovery, so the DAir tech will probably work on her with good timing...it has a hitbox, so I'm not sure, but it's worth a shot anyway. It won't damage you since she'll just be grabbing the ledge lol
Although, I did just think about this. When/after Zelda puts the input in to teleport to the ledge, she probably can just hold down so the hitbox stays out. Maybe it's not a good idea.
Just play solid, be patient. I don't know if you've played other fighting games but the rules of the most basic fireball games in neutral still apply.
I've been experimenting with this more since Jero mentioned it (was it him?), but you can also try and get a running up-b to go underneath a few projectiles/ZAirs and aerials that are poorly spaced, and sometimes even properly spaced as well since his hurtbox is reduced in size. Bowser can upb to get under arc fire as its coming down/out of robin's hands, kind of like that last second slide under a shutting chamber door in movies or something like that. And usually if someone is airborne and landing, you can go for upb anyway as they have no way to avoid it at that point, especially if they don't have a lot of stage space to work with. At that point, they have to either trade with an aerial, land on the ledge (which will allow you to recover from up-b use in time) or get lucky, land on stage and shield. But if you're hot on their ass with that, it's probably not an option. It's not something I would recommend as an option you use every time, but just be aware that it exists.
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Corgian
Smash Apprentice
Hitman JT
The Infinite One
I've played Dath online before, definitely a threat. He has that timing down to catch the tomes and levin sword as soon as they expire and he will kill you with them. Just roll under Arcfire or shorthop airdodge through it on reaction and scoop him up for it.
Jerodak
Smash Lord
I haven't seen anyone doing this yet, but sonic's homing attack can be full hop bair'd oos unless you want to go for the raw upsmash or pivot fmash whiff punish instead. If custom homing attacks behave the same on shield or whiff then those should still work.Having Nick Riddle
I completely forgot what I did against Nick Riddle's ZSS, but I challenged him to a money match recently, so when that happens I'll get an hour of friendlies with him and learn the match-up a bit more. I do remember that we can punish some of ZSS's specials pretty well, but I just don't remember how.
Vs zzs, I'm wondering if it would be worth learning to just react to her grab. It's so slow, and spot dodging properly means a free fsmash. Her neutral tends to revolve around grabs too. So it might be a good idea to start with learning to punish her grab consistently.
Also, if you somehow happen to jab her out of her up-b, she goes into this weird special landing were she lags for like 50~ frames or something. So maybe baiting her up b oos with jab frametraps could give you the opening you need. This also works on lucario's up b if I'm not mistaken.
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Hitman JT
The Infinite One
Cudl
Smash Rookie
hmmmmmm
bowser ay?
bowser ay?
Oh man I forgot about this hype sonic knowledge! I'm not sure if this is common knowledge or not, but Bowser almost never has to die to even a charged sonic up smash. I've found that what makes it very likely that he'll fall out is to quickly switch between down and down diagonal DI while being attacked with it. You like almost always fall out of up smash. It can really frustrate sonic players.
Corgian
Smash Apprentice
I lost in Winners to Eden, and then despite having hours of practice against quite possibly the best Link in Florida, I died to a Link that F-smashed 90% of the time. I have never been so discouraged in my life.
Xandercosm
Smash Lord
Poor Iwata...
By the way, bringing back the color palette topic: My favorite is black. Cause it's tough looking.
By the way, bringing back the color palette topic: My favorite is black. Cause it's tough looking.
y u tag me@
Last night I played against the Zelda (Ed) that @
Corgian
was talking about. Posted the match in the video archive. I feel like the matchup is pretty even, he just played better than I did lol. The main problem is that Zelda has really good setups against Bowser (who doesn't?) which allows her to rack up damage, but I felt like playing a little bit on the aggressive side while also pressuring defensive options worked best, because she has no way to get in safely. That's what I was trying to do in those games, but I made too many input errors (accidental smashes, mainly. Wondering if it helps to use c stick for tilts) and misreads to make it work.
Also lost to Dath's Robin two weeks earlier. That's why some of you might recall me asking about that matchup earlier in the matchup thread. In hindsight, he's one of the best Robins I've ever seen. My friend and I were watching one of his games against a pretty solid G&W that said friend lost to. The G&W had about a 90% lead, and my friend was hyping him saying that he had the game, and I was trying to tell him that he didn't know Dath like I do. After I said that, Dath didn't get hit for the rest of the game, and then closed it out with an air dodge read to a raged up air. All my friend could say was, "That was horse ****" and just walked away shaking his head lol.
Corgian
was talking about. Posted the match in the video archive. I feel like the matchup is pretty even, he just played better than I did lol. The main problem is that Zelda has really good setups against Bowser (who doesn't?) which allows her to rack up damage, but I felt like playing a little bit on the aggressive side while also pressuring defensive options worked best, because she has no way to get in safely. That's what I was trying to do in those games, but I made too many input errors (accidental smashes, mainly. Wondering if it helps to use c stick for tilts) and misreads to make it work. Also lost to Dath's Robin two weeks earlier. That's why some of you might recall me asking about that matchup earlier in the matchup thread. In hindsight, he's one of the best Robins I've ever seen. My friend and I were watching one of his games against a pretty solid G&W that said friend lost to. The G&W had about a 90% lead, and my friend was hyping him saying that he had the game, and I was trying to tell him that he didn't know Dath like I do. After I said that, Dath didn't get hit for the rest of the game, and then closed it out with an air dodge read to a raged up air. All my friend could say was, "That was horse ****" and just walked away shaking his head lol.
Scary is a really good Zelda but she's still Zelda lol
You mainly have to just respect the elevator. If you get hit by that then you die. Everything else she has is punishable on shield and her grab is still one of the worst in the game (but her throw rewards are pretty good).
You mainly have to just respect the elevator. If you get hit by that then you die. Everything else she has is punishable on shield and her grab is still one of the worst in the game (but her throw rewards are pretty good).
@
KuroganeHammer
My quick reply saved your name from a previous comment I was going to make but decided not post. Also, I see you enjoy the champ rework. Cheers.
KuroganeHammer
My quick reply saved your name from a previous comment I was going to make but decided not post. Also, I see you enjoy the champ rework. Cheers.
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She was my favourite champion before I quit League. They changed her ult and I couldn't play her very well afterwards because it was a crutch I relied on a lot. I used to get some really absurd scores, 80% of the time I'd get 15 to 20+ kills, and the other 20% of the time I'd just go 0/20.@
They reworked her image and I didn't like it at first because she looked like Cruella Deville from 101 Dalmations, or Colette from Ratatouille. But they've since fixed the splash art to make her look beautiful again and I'm very grateful.
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
A member of the SoCal Smash 4 community is starting to make shirts with designs geared towards specific players, and he made a shirt for me--and it's totally available for sale now!
https://www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/246476-zigsta
https://www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/246476-zigsta
D
Deleted member 189823
Guest
'dat envy (ಥ⌣ಥ)
Guys, I have goodies. I made 6th in a tournament of 64 going all Bowser (okay, I actually went ZSS ONE match...and did horrible). Everybody be telling me I got a lot better and that I should never switch Bowser again (last tournament I went all-Bowser I ranked 4th out of 64, back in late December).
Wish I had matches to show, but I didn't want to offend the others (some people feel salty when you when and save the replay...). I had pretty great moments... (ಥ⌣ಥ)
Moral of the story: Don't go ZSS on tournaments, eveerrrrr.
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MrEh
Smash Hero
I used to go ham in League back in S1 and S2.
Then I made a couple of funny voice mods, a moderator here accused me of making fun of **** victims, and then he left in a hissy fit.
That dude works at Riot now supposedly. Hehe
Then I made a couple of funny voice mods, a moderator here accused me of making fun of **** victims, and then he left in a hissy fit.
That dude works at Riot now supposedly. Hehe
That's freaking awesome.
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Super Adorable Riven will always be remembered.
MrEh
Smash Hero
Never forget Riven-chan. She shall be remembered.