Meta Boss Select! Megaman Matchup Discussion 2.0

[Xavix]

I'm letting the samus discussion run as we only got a few replies to it and I can give a good write up on it tomorrow. Also, we can probably do fox next as it seems like an interesting matchup.

 

[Funkermonster]

just invited the samus boards to come here, we probably should hear thoughts from the other side first before closing it.

 

[Mega-Spider]

I used to have a good amount of information of , but because of her great buffs and my lack of experience with Post-Patch Samus, I can't really add anything to this discussion. I still see it as a winning match up, even at worst.

 

[Afro Smash]

Mega favour imo, MU is probably in Samus favour once we get our CS charged but Lemon pressure makes that exceedingly difficult to do, Lemons make it difficult to do our mid range spacing in general which is where we usually excel. Difficult to land around Bairs and Up Airs, and we can't trap your landings like we can with other characters due to Rush mix ups

 

[Xygonn]

Keep lemons out of dtilt range and don't let Samus get a cs. Mega man's favor.

 

[KayJay]

Mega Man's favor, but once Samus has 3/4 charged CS she wins the neutral.
Catching metal blade doesn't help because lemons beat metal blade.
With the right timing Samus's U-Tilt goes through the lemons without taking damage and hits Mega Man if he is at close midrange.
Offstage, Samus has more options than Mega Man so she may win that aspect.

 

[Mythzotick]

Xavix Sounds good to me. I'm interested in what your opinion is.

Also, to the Samus mains out there, how much more do the buffs matter in this particular mu? I've only faced maybe a couple of Samus players since the last patch as Mega Man, but she didn't feel that much different than before the patch.

 

[Xygonn]

Dash

Xavix Sounds good to me. I'm interested in what your opinion is.

Also, to the Samus mains out there, how much more do the buffs matter in this particular mu? I've only faced maybe a couple of Samus players since the last patch as Mega Man, but she didn't feel that much different than before the patch.

Dash attack is better, that helps and makes it safer on crossup. Nair is much better. Functionally against mm this for help quite a bit because we can catch him with sh nair but not bair.

 

[Xavix]

I dont knoe what happened to the discussion but with nothing happening in (2 weeks or so) I'm going to jumpstart it again. Fox seems like the best pick for this week, so I'll try and update the OP later today

 

[ravemaster47]

Yeah, I was curious when the next one was gonna start. Fox is a matchup I'm I terested in hearing about.

 

[ravemaster47]

So we are on fox now right?

 

[Mythzotick]

Xavix and others. What on earth happened to this thread? It's been almost 2 weeks since the last post and almost a month since there was a post that involved a mu. I thought this was a weekly mu discussion based thread, not a ghost town. It doesn't help that a character like isn't as popular as these guys etc.

I'm not saying this because I have mu problems or anything like that, I'm saying this because other people out there might have a mu problem or are curious to hear what other people have to say when either playing as or against Mega Man. This really doesn't look good when one of our sticky threads that involves weekly discussions about different characters and mu's is hardly ever active.

I could care less what character we talk about next, but it would be nice if more people were active even if it was just for a little bit as it's better than nothing. I'll even be the one that goes on the current character's forums and ask them to give their input on what it's like to go up against Mega Man as this character if it means we're more active as a group.

 

[Diamond Octobot]

Well the thread kind of died out too... We should try to find another MU to discuss, if anything. If is the chosen one, then let it be. Lemons still annoy him to the end of Earth, and we shall let our Jab take care of his rushdown tendencies.

 

[Mythzotick]

Battle of the ages as we got 20XX vs 20XX. Oh , where do I even begin with the current leader of the elite squadron known as Star Fox.

I mentioned in a previous post that I thought that Fox was maybe Mega Man's biggest obstacle and not Shiek. While I no longer think that (**** ), Fox is still a character you do not want to take lightly if the one who is playing him knows what he/she is doing. If I had to sum it up in 5 words, it would be "DON'T LET HIM GET IN!!!!"

Fox has a ridiculous footsie and combo game on top of being one of the fastest characters in the game. If he is able to land a hit on you, you WILL take a lot of damage and may even be put in a situation where you might die. U-tilt can combo into itself and even set up for an u-smash at early percents. His nair, dair, and dash attack can also lead into combos that do heavy amounts of damage due to us having a bad combination of being a heavy weight and a natural fast faller. At kill percents, getting hit by his jab will more than likely led to taking your stock as it can set up for his u-smash. Also, try to avoid hanging on the ledge as Fox can just spam his u-tilt which will then lead to bair and will launch us diagonally down away from the stage as well as being able to kill at high percents. You also don't want to be directly above Fox either as his uair is really strong and fast as well.

What makes this mu even more difficult is that he has a reflector and it's the one kind of reflector where he can keep holding down-b. Due to this, it gives us a little less freedom to do what we specialize at and it makes our f-smash almost irrelevant (not that it ever was that helpful to us to begin with). BUT, his down-b can be baited and punished as it has no hitbox after it's inital frames are gone and it has a lot of endlag. Because of these two problems, most Fox's that are good will hardly ever use this move unless the Mega Man player decides to break the unwritten rule and charge his f-smash in which case you're basically telling the Fox player "Here's a free stock for you, please take it.".

The big difference between Sheik and Fox is that Fox has 2 major weaknesses that Shiek doesn't have and he doesn't have a projectile that is better than our lemons. Those 2 weaknesses are his grab game and his recovery. While his pummel is really good, the rest of his grab game isn't. His grab has less range than ours and he lacks a kill throw or a kill confirm throw. The best he's got is one where he MAY put you in a 50/50 situation depending on percent, di, and what stage you're on. His recovery may not exactly be the easiest to exploit, but it's far from untouchable like Sheik's recovery is for the most part. If Fox uses his up-b below the stage, edge guard him by either footstooling him with leaf shield, or use bair right when he is about to grab the edge and maybe that'll lead into a stage spike.

I'd say that this mu is atm 60:40 in 's favor, but I can definitely see it ending up being 55:45 in his favor in the future as we get better and better against him.

 

[BugDoctor]

A few things to note about fighting Fox:

I find that at very early percents, dthrow->fair->upair is guaranteed. I think he's such a fast faller that he lands just in time to get lagged and take the hit from Air Shooter. This is really good for tacking on some damage, but it gets messed up by any percent he has, and any percent you have past 30 due to rage. I'm about 90% sure it's guaranteed, and that's simply because I have fought a number of good Fox users who know to nair out of combos and they don't seem to be able to do so in this specific situation. Worth looking in to.

Additionally, when he starts uptilt comboing us, if we're fast enough we can DI downward and punish with an uptilt. I don't recommend doing this though except for when you absolutely know you can get to the ground, shield, and land the uppercut without being hit again.

When Fox recovers, he has limited options. Side B is always what Fox users will go to first if they're far enough out. You CAN Hard Knuckle him out of this, but it's tough. Another option is simply to stay at the ledge and mega slide if you think the Fox is going to Illusion right to the ledge. This will usually catch him before he's able to sweet spot and tack on a tiny bit of extra damage while also forcing him back out off the stage. At this point, he'll either side B again, which you can chase and punish, or use Fire Fox. Fire Fox is incredibly easy to punish with a bair or fair, so try to get out there as soon as he starts it up and punish with whatever you like. If you use Fair, it will often put him a little farther down, forcing him to up B again, which you can then punish one more time if you're confident.

One key thing I've found is important in this matchup (as well as vs. Falco) is knowing the distance of the Illusion. Once you have that down, if you know your opponent is going to Illusion back onto the stage (and NOT go for the edge), you can get set up and easily punish it with an upair or upsmash. You can even charge up a Flame Blast if you're confident, which can lead to some really early kills since Fox is so light.

Never use f-smash at all in this matchup unless you're going to catch Illusion with it as Fox returns to the stage. It's sort of safe in this situation.

Vary up your pellets, Blades, Crash Bombs and Leaf Shields...just try not to get predictable. A good tactic I find is to bait the reflector by holding a Metal Blade in hand, then shorthop z-drop the blade on the ground, and tomahawk grab when you land or even throw out a fair. It's a good way to punish a Fox that thinks they're safe in their reflector.

Those are some thoughts for now, I'll think and try to post more later!

 

[ravemaster47]

Fox is a tricky matchup. Your spacing is very important to keep him out. His utilt spam really hurts and sets him up a lot. One very important thing I've noticed in this mu, TECH everything. It's annoyingly frustrating to miss the tech and eat a us mash and die, when it could have bee avoided.

As for illusion, it's super easy to punish if they use it to recover. Leaf shield snags them out of it, usually setting up footstool shenanigans, jab or Nair knocks him out and forces the fox fire to which we can get the hard knuckle off . I actually like leaf shield s lot in this matchup. I usually get a grab from it if they illusion or dash attack into it on stage

 

[Xavix]

Well this thread is finally starting to rejuvenate! sorry Mythzotick about that, I was kinda hoping for this thread to revitalize too, and I'm glad to see that the fox discussion is picking up. I'll leave this discussion running until friday, at which point I would like to look at either Lucas or Ness as both are interesting matchups for me (and I main them lol).

 

[CopShowGuy]

You'll have better luck sealing the stock if you can get Fox off stage first. His recovery is pretty easy to intercept. They typically go for the ledge when using Fox Illusion. Fire Fox has such a long start up that you can get into a good position to intercept.

 

[Mythzotick]

No worries Xavix , you're good. I was hoping that this thread would revitalize as well, but nothing happened until I said something to get this thread back on it's feet. I just now invited the Fox mains to join in on the discussion in case anyone was wondering
(lol ZeRo2King).

I'm good with either character for next week's discussion. Even though I'm more interested in the mu then I am in the mu, I think we should talk about first since I find him to have a more linear gameplan than does when going up against us.

 

[Mega-Spider]

is the disadvantageous MU I have the most experience with, mainly because my partner is a / main. Fox is definitely a difficult foe, one of the toughest in the game, so our disadvantageous position doesn't discourage me too much, but Mega Man is already striking out because of Fox's reflector. I consider Fox's reflector to be the most dangerous because it covers every side of him, and can lead to shine tricks. Fox is quick on his feet too, so keeping him out is a top priority, but unlike Sonic, Fox isn't completely stopped because of his reflector. When playing against my partner, I noticed that Fox and Megs have some similarities. For starters, they're both combo food, since Fox is a fast faller and Megs is a heavyweight. Second, both need to commit to their kill moves. Now, Fox has an easier time killing than Megs does, but Fox's kill moves have some endlag on them and require full commitment to execute properly.

Fox isn't the easiest to edge guard, but it is doable. Hard Knuckle isn't recommended (though I have gotten a spike from Fire Fox but it's really difficult to do, so it isn't worth it in the end). This is also where you want to put Fox. The main advantage that we have over Fox is that our off stage game is far better than his, as we aren't completely crippled by it like he is. Since he can reflect the Z-Metal Blade, I recommend using Leaf Shield (try Leaf-Stooling if possible) or Slash Claw since it can kill Fox early. Since Fox is a lightweight, our kill options take him out pretty early, but since we suffer from more endlag than Fox does, I suggest using Slash Claw or B-Throw to finish him off for the safest options.

Overall, Fox, while an incredibly difficult MU in the worst case scenario, he does have weaknesses, especially that off stage weakness we can use to our advantage. I'd say it's a 60:40 in Fox's favor, but that's the highest I'm willing to go. Still, be careful with him, as Fox players aren't afraid to go in for the punish if you mess up.

EDIT: I apologize for slacking off on this thread as well. Since I was busy finishing high school, I didn't have time to take a look at the thread and write stuff for it. I'm still going to be busy, so I apologize in advance if I don't partake in a MU discussion. Thanks in advance.

 

[Mega-Spider]

Alright guys, I know we've been on and off on this thread, but I feel we should move on to our next topic, since I feel that there's not much to say about Fox other than it being a really tough MU.

I choose to cover both and . Ness's greatest weakness, his lack of good approach options, helps us greatly in this case since Megs is really good at approaching. While he can absorb the Crash Bomber and our pellets, I suggest switching up with Metal Blade and Leaf Shield since both of them can't absorb those. Ness still has strengths such as his good air combo game and reliable B-Throw, but his lack of approach options does help us in this aspect.

I find Lucas to be the more difficult of the two, mainly because of his tether grab. It's the fastest in the game and doesn't give you enough time to punish it like in previous updates. Lucas also has a good amount of combos from his throws, and while the majority of his Smash attacks do have noticeable endlag, they do a hefty amount of damage and knock back. Some of what I said about Ness remains true here: Don't get overly happy with pellets and switch things up with Metal Blade and Leaf Shield. Due to his tether, Lucas has an easier time approaching than Ness does, and while Lucas does have kill throws, they aren't on the level of Ness's B-Throw.

I have more experience with the Lucas MU because my sparring partner mains Lucas, so a stage like Battlefield can help him because the disjointed hitboxes on his moves can catch us from the platforms, kinda like how our moves do that too. Lucas doesn't do too well on FD, but not awful on it.

From my experience, I'd say the MU ratio is 50: 50.

 

[Luco]

As a co-main of the PK kids, my best guess is that Ness loses slightly to Megaman and Lucas beats Megaman slightly. Both MUs are super close, but the reason I give these ratios are partially based on FOW vs Scatt at CEO which if I recall was a 2-0 in Scatt's favour (and Ness mains have been saying for a long time that this MU would be slightly MMs favour so we were kinda vindicated in a sad way when this upset occurred) - although I'd like to see the matches specifically, Ness needs to approach because MM isn't silly and won't be throwing out things he can absorb without mixing it up, and then Ness proceeds to kinda get walled out anyway. If he gets in though he can capitalise on MM being off-stage really well (I personally think MM's inability to deal with things diagonally below him in front well is a really big factor in his disadvantage state). Ness offstage is obviously good for MM though.

Lucas on the other hand actually gets to play a mid-ranged neutral against Megaman and it's awesome. Lucas can actually kinda go for magnet every so often because the reward is so much more substantial (Lucas' heal multiplier is 2.0x to Ness' 1.4x if I remember correctly) and grab combos and PK Hoohah are good good good. PK Fire and Zair are fantastic (iirc Zair goes through lemons) and although Lucas doesn't punish MM's landings as well as Ness does IMO but what he does have in this MU is a far less explotable recovery, so... Yay? Unfortunately I can't think of a time where this MU has happened at a really high level.

I've only played Australia's best MM once and it was a single stock in a crew battle, so my opinions might be less informed than others, but my personal take is that loses 45:55 and wins 55:45 , and I will always opt to use the latter in this MU whenever I see it present.

 

[yoshi8984]

Here from the Ness boards!
(Feel free to call me Timmy lol)

Our biggest problem is trying to get in and lemons make it hell. We can absorb it, sure, but Magnet is hardly practical in this MU as Lemons can be shot in 1-3 pattern and MM shouldn't be F-Smashing anyway. We can't try to PKF MM as he tries to land during a lemon wave cause we will get hit during start up. Our Nair/Bair/Uair DO beat a single lemon, but not more than one IIRC. Dash Attack isn't much of a reliable combo starter for us as it normally is, so our best option is to try and shield accordingly to try and get in.

Not only that but MM can play confuse Ness and condition him with the various directions he can send a blade, condition a Magnet/Shield with the Crash Bomb (lol Ness only heals 1% from it anyway, but note it takes about 3 secs to explode) and summon a Blade or get his Leaf Shield up while it's stuck on Ness. However if you use Leaf Shield incorrectly, you can give Ness a free PKF from midair (and if he starts PKF as he FHs, he can cancel the landing lag).

When Ness DOES get in, he can combo MM fairly well, esp. from a grab but has to avoid overextending or he's back in neutral again (i.e. he can't get desperate for the grab). As I previously mentioned, Bair/Nair/Uair do beat out a lemon and I believe MM wouldn't have time to beat out Nair (Ness Nair is F5, MM's Nair/Jab is F7) if Ness is on him. Falling Uair from Ness can be a good combo starter too, and a well spaced midair PKF (Ness can do a PK Jump to possibly land it) can be used to mix up (the latter is a tool in neutral but very tricky to time and can be beaten out). MM above Ness is fairly easy to juggle with PKTs and can't reliably airdodge PKT as a smart Ness will loop PKT so that the tail catches the airdodge and loops into the head. If MM is recovering, we can try to get the 2 frame punish with D-Smash (which is deceptively not laggy). Remember that MM CAN Double Jump after using Up-B if he still keeps it.

MM however, can use Blades to set up a U-Smash/U-Tilt, can Uair if we're above him (if you're caught in this DO NOT JUMP). He can also get a ledge trump > Bair (which is real scary) and Bair is just great to stuff Ness' aerials/jumps due to how fast it is. Or he can condition the trump and cover Ness at the ledge with Bair, U-Smash or F-Smash (which is probs the only time MM should F-Smash in this MU). Leaf Shield can ALSO gimp Ness, either jump offstage and get to him before launching with PKT2 OR you can stand at the ledge and watch it hit Ness before he grabs the ledge (it's NOT 2 framed either so he doesn't get a jump back and is sometimes inconsistent for some reason IIRC). His B-Throw also KOs kinda decently too, so he should stay away from the ledge.
However, all of these require some sort of zoning or hard commitment from MM. Ness can KO much more reliably and early, but can still have trouble getting in to get the KO. As I said before, he can't get desperate for a grab or he gets punished (even U-Tilted) lol. If he gets a Blade and MM is on the ledge, he can Z-Drop it there and use Nair to recatch and cover ledge or D-Smash can work too to cover it.

Also just another quirk about Ness' recovery; he cannot rebound on the left of a STRAIGHT wall. But on the actual FD, he can do it just fine from either side. You get silliness like this happening lol.
Speaking of stages, I think Ness would prefer to NOT have platforms here as MM under a platform can be pretty annoying to approach and we can't PKF him from midair too reliably, and takes away our ability to somewhat safely PKF Leaf Shield and MM's Uair could KO us early if we're not careful when we jump from a platform. I think in terms of CPs, I'd like Duck Hunt as Ducks can somewhat interfere with a lemon wave, but otherwise I'd probably go either FD, T&C or SV.

I'm gonna agree with 55:45, MM's favor. Sadly I do not have videos of me playing vs Mega Mans, but I've played vs DHOPE and Techiyo (both relatively inactive but also great MMs in my area) and it's not fast paced LOL.

 

[Luco]

Here from the Ness boards!
(Feel free to call me Timmy lol)

Our biggest problem is trying to get in and lemons make it hell. We can absorb it, sure, but Magnet is hardly practical in this MU as Lemons can be shot in 1-3 pattern and MM shouldn't be F-Smashing anyway. We can't try to PKF MM as he tries to land during a lemon wave cause we will get hit during start up. Our Nair/Bair/Uair DO beat a single lemon, but not more than one IIRC. Dash Attack isn't much of a reliable combo starter for us as it normally is, so our best option is to try and shield accordingly to try and get in.

Not only that but MM can play confuse Ness and condition him with the various directions he can send a blade, condition a Magnet/Shield with the Crash Bomb (lol Ness only heals 1% from it anyway, but note it takes about 3 secs to explode) and summon a Blade or get his Leaf Shield up while it's stuck on Ness. However if you use Leaf Shield incorrectly, you can give Ness a free PKF from midair (and if he starts PKF as he FHs, he can cancel the landing lag).

When Ness DOES get in, he can combo MM fairly well, esp. from a grab but has to avoid overextending or he's back in neutral again (i.e. he can't get desperate for the grab). As I previously mentioned, Bair/Nair/Uair do beat out a lemon and I believe MM wouldn't have time to beat out Nair (Ness Nair is F5, MM's Nair/Jab is F7) if Ness is on him. Falling Uair from Ness can be a good combo starter too, and a well spaced midair PKF (Ness can do a PK Jump to possibly land it) can be used to mix up (the latter is a tool in neutral but very tricky to time and can be beaten out). MM above Ness is fairly easy to juggle with PKTs and can't reliably airdodge PKT as a smart Ness will loop PKT so that the tail catches the airdodge and loops into the head. If MM is recovering, we can try to get the 2 frame punish with D-Smash (which is deceptively not laggy). Remember that MM CAN Double Jump after using Up-B if he still keeps it.

MM however, can use Blades to set up a U-Smash/U-Tilt, can Uair if we're above him (if you're caught in this DO NOT JUMP). He can also get a ledge trump > Bair (which is real scary) and Bair is just great to stuff Ness' aerials/jumps due to how fast it is. Or he can condition the trump and cover Ness at the ledge with Bair, U-Smash or F-Smash (which is probs the only time MM should F-Smash in this MU). Leaf Shield can ALSO gimp Ness, either jump offstage and get to him before launching with PKT2 OR you can stand at the ledge and watch it hit Ness before he grabs the ledge (it's NOT 2 framed either so he doesn't get a jump back and is sometimes inconsistent for some reason IIRC). His B-Throw also KOs kinda decently too, so he should stay away from the ledge.
However, all of these require some sort of zoning or hard commitment from MM. Ness can KO much more reliably and early, but can still have trouble getting in to get the KO. As I said before, he can't get desperate for a grab or he gets punished (even U-Tilted) lol. If he gets a Blade and MM is on the ledge, he can Z-Drop it there and use Nair to recatch and cover ledge or D-Smash can work too to cover it.

Also just another quirk about Ness' recovery; he cannot rebound on the left of a STRAIGHT wall. But on the actual FD, he can do it just fine from either side. You get silliness like this happening lol.
Speaking of stages, I think Ness would prefer to NOT have platforms here as MM under a platform can be pretty annoying to approach and we can't PKF him from midair too reliably, and takes away our ability to somewhat safely PKF Leaf Shield and MM's Uair could KO us early if we're not careful when we jump from a platform. I think in terms of CPs, I'd like Duck Hunt as Ducks can somewhat interfere with a lemon wave, but otherwise I'd probably go either FD, T&C or SV.

I'm gonna agree with 55:45, MM's favor. Sadly I do not have videos of me playing vs Mega Mans, but I've played vs DHOPE and Techiyo (both relatively inactive but also great MMs in my area) and it's not fast paced LOL.

Very quick and slight amendment, but Thunderbounce can be done on the left straight wall, the angle is just very very very sharp (ie nearly 90 degrees straight into the wall) and only helps very slightly.

Also I would have actually said use DH as a CP against Ness because the lack of a Z-axis increases his AD vulnerability by (iirc) 3 frames.

But a really good analysis and I agree with pretty much everything else.

 

[Mythzotick]

Through my experience playing against the two, I've found Ness to be easier to deal with than Lucas simply due to that Ness has a little bit more of a predictable gameplan than Lucas does when going up against Mega Man.

Unlike Lucas, Ness doesn't have a tether so his approach options are more limited since his run speed isn't that good along with Lucas. Fortunately for Ness though, he does have the best kill throw in the game so as long as he isn't offstage in a disadvantage state, he always has a chance to turn things around. Like everyone else has said, Ness is a lot more vulnerable offstage than Lucas is due to the fact that you can interrupt Ness's PK Thunder a lot more easily than you can interrupt Lucas's PK Thunder as well as being harder to connect and having less distance. It also doesn't help when you don't have a tether for another recovery option like Lucas does either.

While Lucas may not have the luxury of having the best kill throw in the game like Ness does, it's worth noting that Lucas can still get reliable kills off of throws and he has 3 of them at that. He also gets a lot more off of grabs than Ness does as he can get 42% damage on Mega Man with d-throw>nair>nair>nair while Ness can get 27% with d-throw>fair>fair>fair (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about Ness's maxium damage output off of grabs). Lucas's zair is a nice trump card to have in this mu as a neutral option since his grab itself is a lot easier to punish than Ness's grab is. Being able to poke for free allows Lucas to condition Mega Man more easily and when the time is right; he can get in for some massive damage.

Both Ness and Lucas benefit more from stages like Town & City compared to Mega Man due to the low blast zones while Mega Man benefits more from stages like Battlefield compared to Ness and Lucas due to larger blast zones and having platforms to help aid the blue bomber; allowing him to use air shooter (uair) a lot more than on a stage like Final Destination.

I give the mu 55:45 in 's favor, while I give the mu 50:50.

 

[ravemaster47]

Pretty much what you said Mythzotick . I don't have a lot of Ness experience, but I play a pretty good Lucas from time to n time. In my opinion, whoever plays the neutral better will win this matchup. A bit easier to handle ness. But Lucas is a bit different. Zair and a hooha definitely make us have to play much more carefully.

 

[Sorichuudo]

Can't add much to Ness other than whats been said already(just like every other time i ever get into this discussions lol), but i have ZERO experience with Lucas. I figure he should be harder to deal with since his combos seems to be stronger, he has a tether recovery, a zair, and a hoo hah, and, well, reading the posts from you guys i think everyone agrees on that.

 

[ravemaster47]

I'm not sure if the hooha is guaranteed. But i usually expect it at kill percents. So I try to rus coil out if possible.

 

[Mythzotick]

I forgot to mention this, but Lucas has two good meteor smashes which are his bair and dair. Ness does have a meteor smash as well in the form of his dair, but it's as bad as That Ain't Falco's dair so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Also, while Ness and Lucas have very similar uairs, Ness's uair has a bigger hitbox and is stronger than Lucas's uair is.

EDIT: I don't know about you guys, but I think we should talk about next. Reasons being are that ScAtt and Hyuga had a close set at CEO, and I've noticed lately that a lot of people seem to compare the two whenever one of them gets brought up. Thoughts?

 

[Diamond Octobot]

One thing worth noting : Lucas' PK Fire is able to detonate on pretty much all of our projectiles and can stop them aside from Leaf Shield >_<

 

[yoshi8984]

Ness does have a meteor smash as well in the form of his dair, but it's as bad as That Ain't Falco's dair so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Yeah Ness' Dair is trash offensively lol, we only ever use that move for autocancel/tomahawk purposes (most notably to lag cancel PKF).
It can also be used to substitute a tech (think of it like A-Landing) so he can A-Land with Dair and might grab expecting you shield.

 

[Mythzotick]

Yeah Ness' Dair is trash offensively lol, we only ever use that move for autocancel/tomahawk purposes (most notably to lag cancel PKF).
It can also be used to substitute a tech (think of it like A-Landing) so he can A-Land with Dair and might grab expecting you shield.

I wish Ness had his old dair from Smash N64 back. That move was so good to use and it felt so satisfying whenever you land it; even if you're below your opponent since that game has a lot of hit boxes that don't make the most sense.

At least they left his b-throw alone though for the most part.

 

[Mega-Spider]

I think it's safe to say Lucas is more difficult to deal with compared to Ness, mainly because Lucas's approach options outshine Ness's. Ness still has the B-Throw trump card, so don't think you're completely safe.

 

[ravemaster47]

Did we decide the neXT matchup? I think I saw toon link, but I'd like to get a bit more experience on falcon if we have nothing else planned.

 

[Mega-Spider]

Did we decide the neXT matchup? I think I saw toon link, but I'd like to get a bit more experience on falcon if we have nothing else planned.

I second for Falcon. I think we should start focusing on tougher MU for a while, that way we don't look unprepared when we do have to face those tougher characters. Any objections?

 

[Mythzotick]

I second for Falcon. I think we should start focusing on tougher MU for a while, that way we don't look unprepared when we do have to face those tougher characters. Any objections?

It's not necessarily how problematic a character is when you decide if it's important enough to warrant a discussion over other characters beforehand, but I feel like you should also take into consideration how popular the character is, how good the character is, and/or if it's relevant like after witnessing a set at like a top 32/16/8 etc. of a stacked tournament as it is fresh in your mind if you want to keep your/our priorities in check when deciding what mu we should talk about.

As for Captain Falcon, I believe he meets all of the credentials easily for a Mega Man mu discussion and I'm sure that a lot of people want/are interested to talk about it so if the majority of us feel that's who we should talk about next, I'm good.

 

[Xavix]

The discussion is now for Falcon! An intersting thing to note before starting this matchup discussion is that both Mega and C.Falcon are fastfallers and both their combos benefit more against a fast faller, so combos might become important in this matchup more than others.

 

[Mega-Spider]

... Every time I think of this MU, I usually don't see it ending too well. I see Falcon being one of our worst MU's if you ask me. While yes, Falcon is combo food, so are we, and since Megs isn't so much combo-orientated as much as he is stage/neutral-orientated, Falcon can use this as an advantage because of his variety of combos and extremely strong punish game. Try air dodging? He'll punish with a hard knee or D-air. Miss that Smash attack? Getting F-Smashed. I can name a good number of examples, but I think you guys understand where I'm getting at.

While keeping Falcon out isn't the toughest thing to do, it's noticeably more difficult than most characters, and I feel that's because Falcon is one of the best all around characters. Most of the cast has one noticeable weakness we can use against them in neutral, but Falcon has a lot of the essentials a good character needs: Excellent kill power, fast speed on the ground, great damage output, etc. He also has the weird grab during dash option which I find to be a decent approach option. Once Falcon gets in and gets a good combo in on us, we either escape with a hard lead to catch up on, or we lose a stock depending on the percentage. This is why it's extremely crucial to practice your pellet game, and Falcon is a great way to get those on point pellets and pressure game in check.

Falcon's only major weakness is his off stage game. While he does have some good punish options off stage (D-air, anyone), he isn't the most difficult to edge guard, and his recovery isn't the greatest in the world. I find Leaf-Stooling to be a good option against Falcon, and a Z-Air Metal Blade into Slash Claw works wonders too (that works in a lot of MU's, surprisingly). As far as stages go, Falcon and Megs can go anywhere, since both benefit from platform stages like Battlefield and Dreamland 64, but neither of them are crippled by FD. As far as my personal ratio goes, 45 to 55 in Falcon's favor. Overall, definitely a difficult MU, and don't feel too bad guys. Falcon has a lot of positive MU's, and while we don't have it quite as bad as some characters do (poor Kirbs ), don't sleep on this MU. Practice those on point pellets and keep him out as long as you can.

 

[CopShowGuy]

The two crucial things are to not become disadvantaged when fighting this guy and to capitalize hard when he's off stage. Never let him return to the stage for free.

Losing neutral/stage control/advantage state is really bad for us in this MU and Falcon can do so much to us if he gains anything. Keep him out and be wary of his dash grabs.

 

[Koiba]

Hey there Megamans!

The angels are discussing the super-fighting robot himself, and we'd love input from your side!

So hop on over~