Blazblue Mafia Extend: Game Over - NYANCAT In Charge!

[MoosyDoosy]

So J, you mention me in that big post of yours some but don't give thoughts on me. What's your current stance on me.

Also, your post gives critiques but I don't see much reads. Can you give a definite answer as to how Laundry, soup, and me stand in your eyes? I'm taking it that Zaixl is a scum lean for you.

 

[mallorean_thug]

Ok, finally have some time to dig in.

1) -Why use the daykill at all?
I wasn't joking when I said I had to. I have two abilities that have to be used before the end of D2 or else I die. I could have opted to save the daykill for tomorrow, but feel the other one is much more consistent for that stage in the game.

2) -Why target J?
First and foremost, J is a slot I have historically had a very hard time reading. Any quote unquote meta slot generally throws me for a loop, and beyond that J if any of those were to be likely to pull the wool over my eyes it would probably be him. I also found it a little alarming how many of the new players are already buddy buddy with him, which could lead to them just following his directions instead of pushing to find scum on their own.

3) -BUT WHAT IF J WAS TOWN *******?
Odds are, he is! That's always town's advantage, having the numbers. But a) my daykill is confirmed to not end the dayphase, and b) J is one of the more connected slots in the game already. I was willing to pull the trigger because even if we did get a J town flip, it kicked us out of the bull**** RVS stage so we can actually play mafia as well as the most valuable thing you can receive in this game, which is modconfirmed information.

So, "required to use D1" does slightly change my valuation here. Only slightly though. Votes are still the king source of information, and you still pulled the trigger before we had enough votes for the flip to be useful (in terms of co-alignments). I will give you that at the point you took your shot, J was the most informative target based on interactions, but since you entered the thread already planning to shoot him with your Destiny post, that's post hoc reasoning /at best/.

I also don't like that your answer to "Why shoot J?" wasn't even remotely close to "I thought he was scum". The line of thought about him "tricking" other players really pings my scumdar. To me, it reads as "I want to kill this guy before he does stuff that's undeniably towny and makes me look bad for the shot". Separately, shooting somebody because you can't read them is basically forfeiting actually playing mafia if you do so while town. Paranoia lynches are fine, going after remaining nulls as part of PoE is fine, but just flat out not even trying to read them because they've tricked you in the past is lazy as town, and a great excuse to save yourself a NK as scum.

As far as the "get us out of RVS" thing, its taken me long enough to get back to this post that I can judge the effectiveness of that strategy . . . and its definitely worked. I could nirvana fallacy myself all I want, about how you could have done something different/better to do so without doing the early dayvig attempt, but I can't argue with results. So, to me, this is actually the most convincing part of your explanation. And you've only reiterated it since in this post:

This is an awful lot of explaining how a role works and not a lot of whole lot of why it would make me scummy outside of a hypothetical situation where it might have been used better.


Let me knock this out really quickly. To anyone who thinks I used my shot poorly, consider this. Even if I had sat on it and really waited for the perfect moment, it only had a 50% chance of doing anything. If it failed, we would literally be in the exact same position except my shot would be gone. Shooting early not only gave this game a huge shot in the arm (look at how many people actually have reads posted now), but had the potential to give us a full day to work with modconfirmed information at worst. At best J could have flipped scum and given us a massive advantage, but he blocked it so none of you babies can complain about that.

Hmm, I guess I wasn't clear enough

It makes you scummy, because town wants to use their powers in the most protown way possible, while scum wants to use their powers in the least protown way they can get away with. The whole point of having mechanics discussions like that wall is so that all of town knows and agrees on the most protown method, so that scum doesn't have any room to do any differently without getting caught. Its about keeping scum from pleading ignorance, or carelessness to excuse them from mechanically pursuing their win condition.

That said, that's not what you're doing. Unlike several others in the thread that felt the need to just doubtcast the entire wall without actually engaging my points, you're actually standing up for your own valuation and explaining why you acted differently than I would have expected you to. That's legitimately towny. I think that you're not valuing wagon analysis enough, but my inexperience with closed setups could mean that I'm not valuing flips enough.

As I've now seemed to have talked myself into mere rational disagreement on this topic, I should probably move my pressure somewhere more useful, rather than letting the dayvig discussion dominate the thread for longer than is necessary.

UNVOTE

I STILL don't like your shot or the meta part of the reason behind it, and I'd STILL implore any other potential dayviggers to keep my valuation in mind before shooting, but you're no longer the scummiest player in the thread.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

Ok, finally have some time to dig in.



So, "required to use D1" does slightly change my valuation here. Only slightly though. Votes are still the king source of information, and you still pulled the trigger before we had enough votes for the flip to be useful (in terms of co-alignments). I will give you that at the point you took your shot, J was the most informative target based on interactions, but since you entered the thread already planning to shoot him with your Destiny post, that's post hoc reasoning /at best/.

I also don't like that your answer to "Why shoot J?" wasn't even remotely close to "I thought he was scum". The line of thought about him "tricking" other players really pings my scumdar. To me, it reads as "I want to kill this guy before he does stuff that's undeniably towny and makes me look bad for the shot". Separately, shooting somebody because you can't read them is basically forfeiting actually playing mafia if you do so while town. Paranoia lynches are fine, going after remaining nulls as part of PoE is fine, but just flat out not even trying to read them because they've tricked you in the past is lazy as town, and a great excuse to save yourself a NK as scum.

As far as the "get us out of RVS" thing, its taken me long enough to get back to this post that I can judge the effectiveness of that strategy . . . and its definitely worked. I could nirvana fallacy myself all I want, about how you could have done something different/better to do so without doing the early dayvig attempt, but I can't argue with results. So, to me, this is actually the most convincing part of your explanation. And you've only reiterated it since in this post:



Hmm, I guess I wasn't clear enough

It makes you scummy, because town wants to use their powers in the most protown way possible, while scum wants to use their powers in the least protown way they can get away with. The whole point of having mechanics discussions like that wall is so that all of town knows and agrees on the most protown method, so that scum doesn't have any room to do any differently without getting caught. Its about keeping scum from pleading ignorance, or carelessness to excuse them from mechanically pursuing their win condition.

That said, that's not what you're doing. Unlike several others in the thread that felt the need to just doubtcast the entire wall without actually engaging my points, you're actually standing up for your own valuation and explaining why you acted differently than I would have expected you to. That's legitimately towny. I think that you're not valuing wagon analysis enough, but my inexperience with closed setups could mean that I'm not valuing flips enough.

As I've now seemed to have talked myself into mere rational disagreement on this topic, I should probably move my pressure somewhere more useful, rather than letting the dayvig discussion dominate the thread for longer than is necessary.

UNVOTE

I STILL don't like your shot or the meta part of the reason behind it, and I'd STILL implore any other potential dayviggers to keep my valuation in mind before shooting, but you're no longer the scummiest player in the thread.

So who is the scummiest player in the thread now?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

You refuse to take a hard stance on people and instead contradict yourself on the same people.

hm...So why does there have to be 1 Mafia in J and DtG?

Why are you digging into the one confirmed townie we have?

 

[MoosyDoosy]

Why are you digging into the one confirmed townie we have?

Wait, was that a serious mod confirm?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Dammit, I don't have time to read giant walls.

#HBC | J

There is nothing going on that isn't centered on glyfe's shot or reactions to it. I've made my points clear on how I feel about that. I don't think mall is scum but out of everyone posting, I like his content the least. You can get over my distaste of your play, I have to get over the fact that it's not changing.

 

[mallorean_thug]

So who is the scummiest player in the thread now?

I'm still working on catching up and typing up the post you're looking for. I will put down a new vote before I leave the thread this afternoon.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Seems without posting much, I've already made thread enemies. This'll be a different game for me since I don't really have the capacity to deal with gripes against my playstyle. I'll just quick hit the main opponent and move on.

I don't think anyone is saying you're scum because of your playstyle.

Laundry, I get it. You dislike my playstyle. That does not mean every post you quote or thing you discuss about me should be regarding my playstyle. I have to say that your malor vote is something I dislike because although their posts have been mechanical, what about them are scummy? I was going to push your slot more if you really were pushing soup over his early posts because that is just the super easy way out of getting some easy points. Soup's posts have not made much of an impact into the thread and I think that is because he is being cautious to not truly come into the spotlight. We both know that when push comes to shove, soup will reveal his true alignment when he is brought up to the mic. In a game this size, soup is an easy read for me I am watching much carefully then he probably realizes. This turned more into my read of soup since you voted him, but your malor vote does not make much sense to me either. To put it quite frankly, your votes are weak and I see more "pushing what is easy" rather than "pushing what is scummy" especially when combined with your superfluous mention of your dislike for my playstyle which is incredibly easy to do. Literally every slot in this game so far has mentioned that they fear my slot. I will always be in the spotlight and I understand that so I don't get the mention of saying that I am "hiding" when I've been pretty here in the thread.

I've got my eye on you currently because I dislike a majority of what you have said thus far and comes to me as scumLaundry filling the thread and feigning content to appease the crowd. Correct me if I'm wrong, but do you honestly feel Malor is the scummiest in the game? You say you understand Glyph's reasonings, but what about his actions make you think he is town? You mention you want something substantial or evidence that something took place, but how do you expect me to produce said evidence without being modkilled since it was presented in PM. It's mouth of word and you should be able to see from my diction in the thread that it actually did occur and I am telling the truth because I know you are smart enough and logical enough to see that.

Glyph reads as...well not smart currently.

Classy! Also, not a counterargument that flies outside of elementary school!

Mod-meta'ing a little bit, the role Glyph has could very well be scum simply put because Ryker loved to make mention of his Day-Vig game that was stellar play and I could see a role like that being given to scum. Do I think this is the case with the current slot/action? Not really.

And yet you felt the need to throw it out anyway, huh? If you didn't think it was the case, why put it out there?

I'm not really asking these questions, I think you did it in an attempt to make my slot lose credibility. Kind of like the first thing you did too!

Glyph just seems more obtuse in the way he is looking at certain slots.

Glyph=dumb, I'm starting to get the idea here I think.

Saying that I am not really doing anything is actually contrary to the thread state and also I wouldn't be much of a conversation piece. His read on Sparky has devolved from the fact that he "role-claimed" on him and he seems to just be biting onto that.

I would be confused by this part, if not for it being right after you making it clear that you're not actually addressing me and instead trying to handwave me away. You are not that dumb as to not see what I am doing with Spak. It is not some secret mafia technique.

I think Glyph is mistaking "Disagreement" for "Scummy" and to fault him for that I truly cannot do since I have a similar way of thinking depending on the game. I will say that Glyph's reads, however, are not something I really am too worried about. If he continues down this avenue of thought without reflection and consideration, then I will make sure to hone in on him and truly make him pay for trying to shoot me D1 and knock me out early.

More discreditation of my reads/play in general. No actual substance, just 'these aren't thought out because I am a scum read'

I understand the rationale behind shooting me. That's not the problem I have with his shot. I have the problem that he did not wait until later on in the dayphase to do as such for a mid-day breviety so that we may examine a slot if the shot went through. The way I think of it, it would be a good thing to help D1's no connection or paper trail to have a dead slot half-way through the day. The fact that he came into the thread guns blazing and trying to knock me out makes me believe he did that just for his own being. Do I think it is a scum-team decision? Possibly. Glyph is a curious slot because everything he has done this game is scummy and towny at the same time. To clarify, I mean that Glyph has been doing things that are both scummy/towny at the same time and can't be faulted or cleared by any of his actions. He is the most null player out of the game and he is playing that way on purpose. Why? That'll be for us to find out later, but I could see myself getting behind pushing a Glyph lynch toDay just to make sure that we clear up his slot sooner rather than later. I would like to see what he does with his PR toMorrow since he did say he has one, but it would not stop me from lynching him toDay because I am not that curious.

This whole paragraph is like, everything I could have hoped for. I get it, some people wish I had waited to use my shot. I didn't. Hell I didn't even have to tell you guys I used it, but opted to because I knew it would break the game open and make things happen. And whoa, look at this, things happening! Spak I see you've posted a similar gripe in the mean time, so I'll hit both of your concerns now. I don't really care how anyone else in this game thinks I should have used my ability. If you want to try and push my lynch over it, be my guest. It is already done, and I've made my position on the matter pretty clear at this point.

But, lets not get off subject here. What is J trying to say here? Glyph is scum? No, because he's been doing town things as well. But maybe? Also what exactly is null about the content I've generated? How about my reads on like, what, 6 players? You mean to tell me because you don't get why I shot that you can't get ANY read on my slot? Not even a lean?

This isn't even the good part yet. The icing on the cake here is 'yeah but I would totally kill this guy, just because I don't really get it.' We're not talking about using a daykill that doesn't end the day and has a 50% chance of success, we're talking about dedicating our entire D1 lynch to removing a slot you don't even have a scumread on yourself.

vote: J

Soup is playing exactly how I expect him to play for his first game back into DGames. He is being incredibly passive and conforming to whichever power player is in thread. When I was making waves in the beginning, he agreed with me. Now that Laundry and Glyph comes in and says they dislike me, he literally waffles onto their side. Whether soup is using this as a preservation technique as scum or town will show sooner rather than later. Soup is going to be a harder read because all of his play is going to be him ducking out of the spotlight and not wanting to get anywhere near being a possible lynch candidate because his anxiety makes him do some rash things, lose his emotions, and semi-ruin games for all players in the game. Soup, soup, soup. I am watching this slot with a fine tooth comb and honestly, I am hoping he does not make me believe he is scum because I hate putting him under puressure because he reacts so poorly and it inevitably ends up to him being lynched. He said that I am being "pussyfooting" the thread which is half-true. Hell, that's what everyone does on D1 so to fault any player on that is absolute garbage logic and I apoogize for the harshness of that but it needs to be said. When you judge a player solely off D1, you won't be able to read intent/connections and players like me love to manipulate that regardless of my alignment because it works to my goal of controlling games to help my faction win. I will say this, though, I am no Yes-Man. That much is known and soup saying that means he isn't looking into intent and also isn't reading as closely as he is letting us to believe.

Skimmed this, and I still can spot an AtE on soup. If only he would look into his heart and realize that J was right all along. Also Soup has been fairly consistent in his reads from what I remember, and I also don't know what you were hoping to accomplish by talking about how Soup 'semi-ruins' games sometimes. Probably because of his 'garbage logic', huh.

I'm not going to lie, I just posted like a semi-case against Slick before realizing that he was mod-confirmed town. SlickWylde We need to talk. All of your reads thus far are waffly and I agree with Moosy. If you were not cleared, I would say that you are playing mirror to how you played as my scum-partner and I would like to discuss this. You left yourself a lot of avenues with things like "J/Glyph is one town/one scum" which is a argument to pigeonhole, you dislike Glyph, but would vote Sparky even though you can see the pro-town content from either which is contradictory almost. You also say that I'm playing to my 50/50 playstyle, but do not let that stop you if you care to investigate me. Logic dictactes that if you feel one of Glyph/J are scum then your vote should be on one of them and pick a side of the fence to stand on. If you do not truly feel that way, then what are your thoughts for toDay? You mention you are skeptical on voting Sparky, but what about him makes you wary.[/quoite]

If he's modconfirmed town, why are you posting this mess about how he's playing like he did when he was scum? You KNOW he's not scum already, so how he's playing now is literally confirmed 100% to be his town play. Also, pushing him to choose a lynch candidate between myself and yourself? Why police his vote? He can have reads and still pressure other slots.

Unvote
Vote: Zaixl

Let's talk. I'd like to discuss some slots with you. Talk to me about Moosy, Fanny, Laundry. You say that your most suspicious of myself and Glyph, yet you want to see more of Glyph's PR toMorrow. If this is the case, why have you not voted my slot yet and pushed me to define your read on me? It makes no sense to sit on "Well J is scummy because J" and it's a cop-out excuse given to you from every other player. You said it yourself that you have no prior knowledge to me regarding my slot but have heard stories. Well, you're stories are coming real and I am wanting to lynch you so far. I feel that someone had fed you that I was a scary player before the game started which is a non-tangable argument, but it is a theory I am proposing that would make sense to you throwing F.U.D. at my slot without any notion so far and also using the heated momentum of a bully poster such as Laundry to take a backseat and help subtly push dislike onto my slot. So what about me, exactly, do you dislike in your own words? What do you make of the opposing Malor/Sparky lynches that have been brought up? Finally, talk to me on Fanny/Glyph's interaction since you have a dislike read on Glyph. Thanks.

I don't get how after all that mess J ends up voting for this guy. Was there nothing worth pursuing in the previous slots he mentioned? Zaixl is the best use of his vote right now?

Oh, those are just my thoughts on players I deemed noteworthy. I've been taking cautious note of tons of people, but instead of just having people complaining that I am "coasty/passive" D1 and that I'm not playing. They can literally go somewhere else because I'm here to play a game of mafia. Not a game of "Critique/Fear J" for the upteenth game in a row.

I'm a scary player, I know this. I don't play usually play D1, I know this.

I also just got shot D1 for being one of the hardest players to read and I'm kind of salty it has come to that so I'm literally wanting to destroy mafia this game and people who get in my way will be dealt with.

You want to play hardball, I'm game, but be warned I did not shoot the first bullet.

You know, in my experience the more often someone has to tell you that they have X trait instead of just doing it, the less likely it is that they really are X.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Oh I guess Laundry IS saying he just doesn't like your play, but regardless I hope that its clear that this is not a personal attack on your play I just find you hella scummy.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

(which is less likely, considering that there are another two factions in the game and having scum near majority would be severely unbalanced)

Uhhhhhhhh did I miss something? How do you know how many factions are in play?

Seriiously I just went back over the OP, day start, and role PM and see no mention of this anywhere. Note that he specifies 'another two' as well, which is way too specific and implies there is already at least one faction he knows.

vote: Spak

 

[Spak]

This whole paragraph is like, everything I could have hoped for. I get it, some people wish I had waited to use my shot. I didn't. Hell I didn't even have to tell you guys I used it, but opted to because I knew it would break the game open and make things happen. And whoa, look at this, things happening! Spak I see you've posted a similar gripe in the mean time, so I'll hit both of your concerns now. I don't really care how anyone else in this game thinks I should have used my ability. If you want to try and push my lynch over it, be my guest. It is already done, and I've made my position on the matter pretty clear at this point.

Fair enough. After I saw post #279, I realized that posting the day kill in-thread wouldn't have made much sense if you were scum and the only reason I could think of for posting it in-thread was to generate conversation and take us out of RVS. If anything, it's a super pro-town decision to post the day kill in-thread. I'm suer confused on your slot's alignment right now, so I'll take a couple hours away from the thread and re-evaluate my read on you when I come back.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

I would really rather you address the thing I just mentioned first. Like, REALLY prefer.

 

[Spak]

Uhhhhhhhh did I miss something? How do you know how many factions are in play?

Seriiously I just went back over the OP, day start, and role PM and see no mention of this anywhere. Note that he specifies 'another two' as well, which is way too specific and implies there is already at least one faction he knows.

vote: Spak

I was basing it off of the "We'll get the rules up tonight, but yes they should be nearly identical to the previous BB game." (Post #37), which I took to be the same type of setup. I went and looked at the previous Blazblue for basic setup info, so I assumed that there would be an Indie, a Mafia, and a Town. In addition, I've never seen a big game of Mafia without an indie, so I kinda assumed it was a normal part of the meta.

 

[Spak]

I would really rather you address the thing I just mentioned first. Like, REALLY prefer.

Sorry, page didn't refresh when you posted that.

 

[SlickWylde]

Spak
Pretend that nobody suspects you. Who would you lynch today? And who would you lynch tomorrow if your target flips scum? Who would you lynch tomorrow if your target flips town?

*stops typing when he sees Glyph's post about Spak*
Ooooh! Very interesting.

Wow, Glyph's comeback to J! :0

#HBC | J I think Glyph brings up a decent point about waiving him off as a minor inconvenience. Can you address that?
I can buy the "Trying to dismiss Glyph" argument, for sure.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Well, I'm glad you stuck around and answered now because I'm much more inclined to believe that's your answer and not your scummates. And damn, that actually explains that pretty well. For the record that might not be what they meant by nearly identical, just that there's some common themes and roles or whatever between the two.

vote: J

Back on track then.

 

[Spak]

Spak
Pretend that nobody suspects you. Who would you lynch today? And who would you lynch tomorrow if your target flips scum? Who would you lynch tomorrow if your target flips town?

I would say Glyph and then no clue because I've developed an unfortunate case of tunnel vision, but I'm starting to think Glyph is town and I've been wrong this whole time. I'll give your a better answer when I come back to this thread and re-evaluate later tonight. I'm still curious as to why Glyph has a town read on Mal, so could you please elaborate DtJ Glyphmoney ?

Time to finish AP Stat HW. See you in a few hours!

Unvote

 

[mallorean_thug]

Clearing the alert queue:

How much experience do you have with mafia again?

This is my 6th game of forum mafia, my first game playing a closed setup, and my first game that isn't on fantasystrike.com. If anybody wants links to previous games, I'd be happy to oblige.

Are you a robot? You took one of the most mechanical approachs to set up this entire perspective that I have to ask if you're human or not.

Beep, boop, how did the primitive sacks of meat you call eyes see through my clever disguise?

Seriously though, I think that you and soup are both laboring under the wrong impression of that post. That post is not some mechanical opinion I whipped up from scratch in response to Glyph's action. That post is attempting to be a comprehensive summary with a full explanation of the general valuation on dayvigs from my home forum. That's part of how we play, and I wanted to make that clear before I started laying out accusations based in context that this thread couldn't possibly know. And I wanted to clearly lay out the strongest form of that argument, rather than making an appeal to the authority of posters you guys also don't know. Based on the game I played with Raz, the collision of the dgames mafia meta with the fantasystrike mafia meta is likely to produce explosive results, so I wanted to head that off at the pass. idk whether I've actually succeeded in that.

The entire first point automatically assumes Glyfe is town-aligned and lynching him is purely to prevent him from being a bigger detriment. In general, I'd say ignore these slots but it is hard to ignore a dayvig.

At any rate, would you lynch a dayvig you think is town?

So, the valuation behind the first statement is this:

Scum doing protown things is still protown, regardless of their alignment.
So, they would prefer to not have to do protown things.
As such, players that resist doing protown things are much more likely to be scum.

Its not assuming that Glyph is town aligned, its saying that I want Glyph to act in a protown manner regardless of his alignment. And that failure to do so will make me see him as scummier, unless he can lay out a serious argument for why his actual behavior is actually as protown as my expected behavior. (which he did, see my previous post).

It's late at this point, but if you still want me to respond to this, let me know.

There's far more useful stuff to be doing now that we're out of RVS. I'll definitely try to find a more current game relevant question to point your way.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

I would say Glyph and then no clue because I've developed an unfortunate case of tunnel vision, but I'm starting to think Glyph is town and I've been wrong this whole time. I'll give your a better answer when I come back to this thread and re-evaluate later tonight. I'm still curious as to why Glyph has a town read on Mal, so could you please elaborate DtJ Glyphmoney ?

Time to finish AP Stat HW. See you in a few hours!

Unvote

Felt that scuMallo wouldn't have stuck his neck out the way he did or something, don't really remember exactly what I said at the time. It is not the town read to end all town reads, but honestly at the moment I feel there are just more pressing things to work with than reassessing that slot. His post right above this one seems to be about the same feel to it, so I don't think that read has changed for me atm.

 

[mallorean_thug]

So the most easily digestible thing I got out of my reread, is that I would really like to see some more from Zaixl. I mean, what even are these posts?

So I reread D1 and for some reason I'm just not comprehending anything. Could someone clarify what the heck happened so far?

And my specific thoughts so far:
Gheb is always mafia
J is extremely null but my gut is wary of him, probably because he's so null even with this much activity. Null. Gut lean slight scum.
OrboRake is hard to read because half the time I'm puzzling over which one is posting. Null.
Glyph seems to check out so far, but is nonreadable imo. Null. Gut lean very slight town.
Spak is a bit scattered but that says nothing towards alignment.
Zaixl is a mafiacat kill him dead with sporks (or handforks)
Null on the rest cause inactivity

Glyph: More info on your role or some other form of further evidence of your ability
J: Worthwhile contribution that pushes debate and more info on your end of Glyph's ability

Zaixl, if you're still this lost, could you please take a moment to recenter yourself by focusing on a player that you /do/ think is readable. As is, you're kind of shrugging your shoulders and saying "Sorry guys, I can't help solve the game -OR- even give you enough to help you figure out my own alignment"

If you want a specific direction from me to take this in rather than using your own initiative, please focus on Laundry for me, since he gave us a bunch of opinions that you haven't weighed in on yet.

Vote: Zaixl

 

[FullMetalLynch]

I actually voted him because he currently looks the most scummy. I already suspected him because of the whole shooting J situation (which I still don't like his logic from). He then voted for me, so I asked for his reasoning. He then asked others to pressure me on a point I thought was fairly null and accused me of asking about his role (which I didn't know was a bad thing to do). At that point, I cast my vote. I'll unvote if he has a good enough defense, but I don't see why Soup giving me such a hard time over a justified vote.

Was just explaining the acronym brah lol.

Have I ever told you I love you, Moosy? Because I don't.
However you are quite likeable and I laughed way too hard at that first line.

On the glyph thing (correct me if I'm wrong) I thought I saw somewhere he said he had to use it D1.

And my specific thoughts so far:
Gheb is always mafia
J is extremely null but my gut is wary of him, probably because he's so null even with this much activity. Null. Gut lean slight scum.
OrboRake is hard to read because half the time I'm puzzling over which one is posting. Null.
Glyph seems to check out so far, but is nonreadable imo. Null. Gut lean very slight town.
Spak is a bit scattered but that says nothing towards alignment.
Zaixl is a mafiacat kill him dead with sporks (or handforks)
Null on the rest cause inactivity

##vote Zaixl

just read us as one oerson, hell even the majority of dgamers who know us cant tell us apart

Don't answer for players like that, that would have been something to follow up on.

Why did you though?

Because i felt like it?
Iunno figured it was something that didnt matter who answered

confirmed orbo is a ****poster too

so now you flip your coin and actually take a more aggressive stance. i want to flip my read on you for it but i'm not utterly convinced.


honestly i'd assume it's legit and targeting you is merely a way of bypassing 3 day phases of dealing with your headache-inducing playstyle.

same point as above, still not utterly convinced but i am feeling better about flipping my read. i can't silence the nagging voice in my head that you're spitting all this fire but it could still be to scum's benefit to lynch on a misfire.


Are you a robot? You took one of the most mechanical approachs to set up this entire perspective that I have to ask if you're human or not.

Either way, I think there is a very valid reason to target J specifically (which, again, Glyph looked like he was intent on targeting from the get-go). I'm just curious if Glyfe is aware of it and I have no way of knowing if his answer to that question would be legit or not.

**** you :x

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Null, however, I am scratching my head at soup.



Mafia in 1. Town in the others. Sparky is fun to read.



Not to be the guy.

You did literally semi-role claim and tried to shoot me. I'm just saying, calling someone out on role-fishing on you is not really fair with the position your slot has point us in when the entire discussion is revolving around that.

scratching your head because his entire thing with spak looks like he was just bluffing and huffing about nothing in perticular or because you agree with my ideal that he dropped spak much too easily and quickly when it seemed like he had more to gain from continuing to pressure him and harass him ?

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Somebody is going to have to explain to me J’s reputation here because it’s getting rather confusing. mmm…

J's reputation abriged

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Actually, has SlickWylde played any games prior to this? I want to take a look at them.

...
You reallt want to investigate the inno child?

Worst thing that could have happened is losing one of the most valuable players to town if J is actually town, getting a minuscule amount of information out of it because of the fact he had very few interactions at that point in time, and the best thing that could happen is we get a scum J (which is less likely, considering that there are another two factions in the game and having scum near majority would be severely unbalanced). I'd have been fine with it even closer to mid-end D1 because we would have had more content to go off of with J's flip, but risking executing a townie based off of the role assignment RNG doesn't sound like a pro-town decision. The game would have exited RVS naturally if you wouldn't have done it, and since we have an extra long day, we would have been able to have good conversation. Your risk-reward perception seems a bit off to me.


1. I had no clue that was seen as scummy; I had literally no idea because every other time I asked for information about slots in every single game of Mafia I've played, nobody has been offended and said I was scum for it. The meta may have changed since you were on last, but I haven't seen anyone criticize me for doing this previous games. You can go back and look at any closed game I've been in (Revival of DGames is the only one thus far) and see that.
2. If I did in fact know that it was scummy, why the heck would I do it? Best case scenerio is me knowing what I could have learned yesterday, worst case scenario is people trying to kill me for revealing information about your role.




I already said a couple pages ago that I was unsure of J because I had only spent about an hour in-thread when Soup asked me for a read. Of what I had seen, he seemed pretty townie, but I wasn't sure of anything and scum J has sent me pretty far down the wrong path previously. I wanted to have more time before responding with a good read, which is why I said "I'll have a more decisive read D2". Right now, J is a town lean for me, as I see more consistences with his play in JR than in RoDG or

Spoiler

More of the same. OMGUS. J still can die but I would highly prefer to see Spak toDay.

Except it's not, I stated why I wanted to vote you, asked you to defend yourself, and you reply with some "I swear its OMGUS guyz" garbage. I'm frankly getting fed up with you flat-out ignoring any reasoning I give and try to re-focus my slot with points that I already addressed.


This worries me. The fact that he could daykill without posting anything about it in-thread doesn't sound like a townie ability.


Care to elaborate? I haven't seen much townie content from Mallo; what makes you think Mallo is town?

This seems..overly defensive

Thanks for finally playing J, I don't know why it took me making a snide remark out of you to get those stances I was fervently looking for, but I appreciate it nonetheless.

You're wrong about a lot of me though but I don't have time to get into it. Am I just following the Power player by stating that I like your vote? That was a nasty misconception because I'm not treating glyph or laundry anywhere different than the other players. They are not getting special treatment and I have my own mind that makes my own decisions, and just because I agree with something they said does not instantly mean I'm their lapdog.

I'm heavily offended that you're trying to get into my head and treating me like the same person you last played with. I've done some maturing in my tenure and I want you to wipe that false interpretation of me out of mind as soon as possible, thanks.

This post feels like soup overembellishing his accomplishments, like most of the big stuff j posted felt more a result of laundrys callout than ajything soup said.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Have I ever told you I love you, Moosy? Because I don't.
However you are quite likeable and I laughed way too hard at that first line.

On the glyph thing (correct me if I'm wrong) I thought I saw somewhere he said he had to use it D1.

And my specific thoughts so far:
Gheb is always mafia
J is extremely null but my gut is wary of him, probably because he's so null even with this much activity. Null. Gut lean slight scum.
OrboRake is hard to read because half the time I'm puzzling over which one is posting. Null.
Glyph seems to check out so far, but is nonreadable imo. Null. Gut lean very slight town.
Spak is a bit scattered but that says nothing towards alignment.
Zaixl is a mafiacat kill him dead with sporks (or handforks)
Null on the rest cause inactivity

##vote Zaixl

just asssume its always rake and call our slot Rake all the time, Orbo loves that ****

 

[FullMetalLynch]

I don't think anyone is saying you're scum because of your playstyle.







Classy! Also, not a counterargument that flies outside of elementary school!



And yet you felt the need to throw it out anyway, huh? If you didn't think it was the case, why put it out there?

I'm not really asking these questions, I think you did it in an attempt to make my slot lose credibility. Kind of like the first thing you did too!




Glyph=dumb, I'm starting to get the idea here I think.



I would be confused by this part, if not for it being right after you making it clear that you're not actually addressing me and instead trying to handwave me away. You are not that dumb as to not see what I am doing with Spak. It is not some secret mafia technique.



More discreditation of my reads/play in general. No actual substance, just 'these aren't thought out because I am a scum read'



This whole paragraph is like, everything I could have hoped for. I get it, some people wish I had waited to use my shot. I didn't. Hell I didn't even have to tell you guys I used it, but opted to because I knew it would break the game open and make things happen. And whoa, look at this, things happening! Spak I see you've posted a similar gripe in the mean time, so I'll hit both of your concerns now. I don't really care how anyone else in this game thinks I should have used my ability. If you want to try and push my lynch over it, be my guest. It is already done, and I've made my position on the matter pretty clear at this point.

But, lets not get off subject here. What is J trying to say here? Glyph is scum? No, because he's been doing town things as well. But maybe? Also what exactly is null about the content I've generated? How about my reads on like, what, 6 players? You mean to tell me because you don't get why I shot that you can't get ANY read on my slot? Not even a lean?

This isn't even the good part yet. The icing on the cake here is 'yeah but I would totally kill this guy, just because I don't really get it.' We're not talking about using a daykill that doesn't end the day and has a 50% chance of success, we're talking about dedicating our entire D1 lynch to removing a slot you don't even have a scumread on yourself.

vote: J



Skimmed this, and I still can spot an AtE on soup. If only he would look into his heart and realize that J was right all along. Also Soup has been fairly consistent in his reads from what I remember, and I also don't know what you were hoping to accomplish by talking about how Soup 'semi-ruins' games sometimes. Probably because of his 'garbage logic', huh.

why does it feel like you always make arguments put to frame people as like 2nd graders to devalue their opinion? Dunno if its just how you do it or what so i can't say its scum, just thatbit bugs me

 

[#HBC | J]

I'll respond to Glyph in a bit. However, I feel Glyph missed a chunk of the point because he says that I would be okay with his slot dying. (still am and would die saying that.) I'll delve more into that in a bit. Like, his remarks just seem more "...?"

Soup, I was not trying to offend you with what I said, but mainly I've seen you grow as a player from the very beginning which was years ago. However, I will say that snide comments get snide comments in return from the old crowd from me. Mainly because you know that irks me to be rude just to be rude. I also disagree that you were "fervently" looking for reads from me because you haven't really questioned me besides your one question which you never actually responded to me.

Also I can't assume that you've changed as a player dramatically especially when I have yet to see that. My apologies, but that's the truth. If you want to show that you've changed as a dramatic player, then let's go. Right now, I do see you more avoiding the spotlight and playing more of a passive game and that's fine for D1, however, you then become a hypocrite since that was your big problem with me. Play aside, I need to see more from your slot to determine a better read on you. You've posted a lot, but I've yet to see a vote or you sticking your neck out in any form of the word.

MoosyDoosy You can be town for now cuz you cute tho. But in a serious note, I don't see much to comment on you and I've liked quite a bit of your posts.

 

[#HBC | J]

Speaking of new slots/reads, I am liking Mallor the more he posts and I am curious to see what #HBC | Laundry has to say regarding that slot.

 

[#HBC | J]

Actually, this would help me out better, DtJ Glyphmoney what exactly do you want me to respond to? I posted my thoughts on your slot based on what you have done this game. I'm not taking offense to what you said at all brother haha. I would just request the comebacks be a little less spiting is all.

However, I don't see much to go off of on your post because a lot of is just you disagreeing with the way I view things and not much else. I am truly not trying to strawman you here, but a lot of your post is coming across as because I disagree with your shot and it inherently being null, I am scum? You say I am taking your actions out of context, but even with your explanation I stand by the fact that you are not fully analyzing certain measures more so pertaining towards my slot.

I still don't have a clear-cut read on your slot, but I am more than happy to have you go because for the remainder of the game you are going to be "that headache" slot for me where I will always remember the fact that you shot me with 0 reason besides meta which is an incredibly safe answer. Your play thus far has been null, that's all I'll say on the matter and I'm not curious to push your slot for toDay's purpose, but I still want to have conversations with you.

I feel I am confusing myself even though I am trying to explain myself more. This is becoming a headache for me because I am trying to be 100%, but I am mildly flustered because I am not able to play the way I normally do because I am trying to do something new because of the fact that a majority of players from the older crowd would like me to try a new playstyle and I am. This isn't working for me, but I made a promise to myself to keep trying and so I will.

If you need me to explain more, let me know.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Funny you say that, I just got home and I wanted to respond to you in full instead of just making this something petty. I want this to be constructive and not just us two bearing claws together.

Sorry laundry, you're going to have to induce another wall.

Doing this completely case by case scenario:

Soup is playing exactly how I expect him to play for his first game back into DGames. He is being incredibly passive and conforming to whichever power player is in thread. When I was making waves in the beginning, he agreed with me.

Bolded, this is a confirmation bias from you, and I think that a lot this is just a kneejerk reaction. What surprised me (and what I pointed out) is that you finally played hardball which is what I wanted from you. However, what surprises me more is that you're missing out on intricate details about this which is a bit sloppy, and I get a feeling that you're a bit rattled. I don't know where you're coming up with that I instantaneously agreed with you because I'm pretty sure it was the exact opposite? Read my #114 again. I am going to put burden of proof on you because you're misconstruing my actions, simply put. I never once agreed with you, I merely understood your perspective, much like I did Glyph. Go back to that post and tell me if you can find any inkling of me saying 'I agree with J' and I will shut up immediately; don't make this into a Us vs. Them scenario. How did you take me saying 'No I think Glyph is town from this' and you saying 'No Glyph is NULL for this' as agreement?

Now that Laundry and Glyph comes in and says they dislike me, he literally waffles onto their side. Whether soup is using this as a preservation technique as scum or town will show sooner rather than later.

This wasn't something that I merely decided, rather it was a conclusion that I made based on the fact you kept dodging me about the simpliest read of Spak, which was unsettling to me. You didn't seem interested into getting into confrontation much like this, rather you were just coasting along and not really uh..making any waves. You've definitely made one now which is all I wanted, again.

Soup is going to be a harder read because all of his play is going to be him ducking out of the spotlight and not wanting to get anywhere near being a possible lynch candidate because his anxiety makes him do some rash things, lose his emotions, and semi-ruin games for all players in the game. Soup, soup, soup. I am watching this slot with a fine tooth comb and honestly, I am hoping he does not make me believe he is scum because I hate putting him under puressure because he reacts so poorly and it inevitably ends up to him being lynched.

Alright, so most of this I just covered lightly, but it's wrong and it frustrates me. I'm not going to argue why your perspective is wrong about me even if it's my pet peeve, rather I am going to play this merely by proof. I can prove my actions, I can prove that I have not been passive, and that I have not been ducking in and out of the spotlight. Even then, in what way does this make me scum? In what way does play passive turn me into mafia? I can say a lot of people are passive, but are they getting called out for it? No. That's because you based your read on presumptions and I want to stop that immediately.

[quote[He said that I am being "pussyfooting" the thread which is half-true. Hell, that's what everyone does on D1 so to fault any player on that is absolute garbage logic and I apoogize for the harshness of that but it needs to be said. When you judge a player solely off D1, you won't be able to read intent/connections and players like me love to manipulate that regardless of my alignment because it works to my goal of controlling games to help my faction win. I will say this, though, I am no Yes-Man. That much is known and soup saying that means he isn't looking into intent and also isn't reading as closely as he is letting us to believe. [/quote]

None of this is useful to me because you're just playing into the ideal that I have to accept your play as typical J and nothing more. Your ego reflection and saying 'I love to manipulate players and I'm really scary!!' doesn't really make me feel all that scared. I get it though. I get your perspective. That's one thing about me that will stay true is that I try to be empathetic, however, I think your reaction is poor and now you are being given the burden of proof to convince me that I'm wrong.

I have another point to make in another post but I'll leave this chunk of the response here for now.

 

[#HBC | J]

Whoa, hold on a second soup I am not trying to make this a petty argument between us. Please do not think that is what I am trying to get across from what I said I apologize immensely. That is not what I wanted you to think about what I am saying, I will though look at your post you just posted in more detail now but I wanted to quick strike that while the iron was hot.

I meant what I said in the kindest way possible.

I will quick hit. You called you me out for being passive. Why can I not do the same to you? I get called out every game for being passive D1.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Wait, was that a serious mod confirm?

 

[#HBC | J]

This is such a bad start for me into this game.

Yuck. I hate being pulled into the spotlight at the start of a game because I have nothing to back up my actions besides just guts/vibes/feels and I would rather have something concrete. Doesn't help that being attempted day-vigged 2-3 pages into the game flusters me a bit more.

I need to take a step back and re-examine some things. I'll be around so poke me if you need me, but I'm pretty mafia drained from the posts I have been making today.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Another thing frustrating me J is your read of Spak. I had to keep grinding you out about it and only then I'm just left with so little. I'm not going to jump the gun and say you two are aligned right now because I find the weird dissociation and slight protection actually more in your favor of not being aligned, because it just doesn't really make any sense. I think you would've jumped at me at Spak more and thrown it at my face, but instead you've just kinda shrugged your shoulders about him in general. We're not going to see eye to eye about this so I'm dropping it, and I need to look at him more because he's been on the backburner, and beacuse I promised a response.

I feel like I'm on repeat however or I'm just not being clear enough about some things because I want to mention that I thing your vote on Zaixl is a good one. I'm not dropping two walls tonight because I won't pretend that I've fully looked into Zaixl, but that one post where he self-voted and dropped a bunch of reads out of the blue was terrible. I don't know what ego he was trying to stroke there but he must've forgot that Mafia is a team effort and I wouldn't mind to see him dead because he seems stubborn in all the wrong ways.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Please elaborate when you get the chance and quote me with any questions I missed.

My initial thought from you was exactly what I said earlier to J. You seem to have all the explanations all neatly wrapped up however, though consider me still not completely satisfied. I really want to see you not just spending your time defending yourself and instead going more into the people who are discussing you or seem interesting. What do you make of J in all this, aside from his reputation that you've built up in your head? Do you think his outburst is townie, scummy? What about all other players? Suffice to say, I suspect you even more than J because the sole difference merely is from experience. J is going to have the more practical responses because he knows how to sell it like that, rather you just look like you're just trying to plead your innocence. Not really sure why Glyph decided he was cool with you but I'm not. I hate that I had to mull over three different people to finally get to this, but that's Mafia for you.

Vote: Spak

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Seriously though, I think that you and soup are both laboring under the wrong impression of that post. That post is not some mechanical opinion I whipped up from scratch in response to Glyph's action. That post is attempting to be a comprehensive summary with a full explanation of the general valuation on dayvigs from my home forum. That's part of how we play, and I wanted to make that clear before I started laying out accusations based in context that this thread couldn't possibly know. And I wanted to clearly lay out the strongest form of that argument, rather than making an appeal to the authority of posters you guys also don't know. Based on the game I played with Raz, the collision of the dgames mafia meta with the fantasystrike mafia meta is likely to produce explosive results, so I wanted to head that off at the pass. idk whether I've actually succeeded in that.

That's fine and dandy but the fact remains is that you seemed really over zealous about a whole lot of nothing you understood. Making yourself clear is fine but when that outcome of clarity seems more like preaching, it doesn't look good. I don't think I really have any other ammo on you however besides that, and it seems that we have common goals in Zaixl to say the least.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

Thank you for saving me from a tunnel. On the other hand this just makes me more nervous because this game is harder to figure out than usual. Although I have a sneaky sneaky suspicion that Mafia is just a bit inactive here.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

My initial thought from you was exactly what I said earlier to J. You seem to have all the explanations all neatly wrapped up however, though consider me still not completely satisfied. I really want to see you not just spending your time defending yourself and instead going more into the people who are discussing you or seem interesting. What do you make of J in all this, aside from his reputation that you've built up in your head? Do you think his outburst is townie, scummy? What about all other players? Suffice to say, I suspect you even more than J because the sole difference merely is from experience. J is going to have the more practical responses because he knows how to sell it like that, rather you just look like you're just trying to plead your innocence. Not really sure why Glyph decided he was cool with you but I'm not. I hate that I had to mull over three different people to finally get to this, but that's Mafia for you.

Vote: Spak

i actually disliked glyph dropping spak just like that, almost like "yeh thats good enough k cool thanks by let me push J more now"
-1 for glyph not even pushing that slip, which by the way, that explanation is literally the most believeable thing ever which really makes me doubt it happened

 

[MoosyDoosy]

Another thing frustrating me J is your read of Spak. I had to keep grinding you out about it and only then I'm just left with so little. I'm not going to jump the gun and say you two are aligned right now because I find the weird dissociation and slight protection actually more in your favor of not being aligned, because it just doesn't really make any sense. I think you would've jumped at me at Spak more and thrown it at my face, but instead you've just kinda shrugged your shoulders about him in general. We're not going to see eye to eye about this so I'm dropping it, and I need to look at him more because he's been on the backburner, and beacuse I promised a response.

I feel like I'm on repeat however or I'm just not being clear enough about some things because I want to mention that I thing your vote on Zaixl is a good one. I'm not dropping two walls tonight because I won't pretend that I've fully looked into Zaixl, but that one post where he self-voted and dropped a bunch of reads out of the blue was terrible. I don't know what ego he was trying to stroke there but he must've forgot that Mafia is a team effort and I wouldn't mind to see him dead because he seems stubborn in all the wrong ways.

...mmm...? I think you may have to look back on how you tone read Zaixl there. He's a lovable goofball which is why I appreciate his presence and he did win the game for us last time by dying. Although you do raise a good point.

@Zaixl you've only given a scum lean on J so far and some weak townreads on everyone else while dusting off everyone else as inactive. Now that the thread's a bit more fired up, can you give more thoughts?

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Thank you for saving me from a tunnel. On the other hand this just makes me more nervous because this game is harder to figure out than usual. Although I have a sneaky sneaky suspicion that Mafia is just a bit inactive here.

i would doubt it. If i had to take a stab at putting my neck out i'd certainly say glyph and j didnt set that up, not J's cup of chili and Glyph doing somthing like that to J is a very glyph thing to do.

I haven't exactly liked how glyphs going about things as evidenced by the little tidbit orbo threw at him, but especially after dropping spak like a hot potatoe after like the most vanilla explanation ever, like sure spak has a reasonable reason but cmon, you can't just jump at a player and be like "hahahaha caught you" but then just instantly accept whatever they throw at you, especially with how glyph's already approached spak today. No kame gutsu from my standpoint