Blazblue Mafia Extend: Game Over - NYANCAT In Charge!

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I want to respond to J's recent post first.

Then we have Soup who is someone who has been having me scratch my head. The post that made me really start having alarm bells go off was his big reads post where he labeled everyone in the town as either a town/town-lean/null-town read except for my slot and Zaixl.

If you're going to try and make this a point, the least you can do is attempt to make it seem like this is somewhat indicative of scum behavior. We both know that it's a matter of perspective and I'm almost confident you could go find someone who has a ****-ton of townreads, but you're just trying to put me in a bad light because you're being attacked and you've finally committed to this whole 'i don't want to pressure soup he might react badly!!' until your back is against the wall.

His reasoning for disliking my slot is completely based around the Glyph shot which he keeps saying to move away from, but he is the one continuously moving the conversation around the shot.

Wrong. It is not just the Glyph shot, and the fact that you again miss out on intricate details and try to cookie-cutter things so it makes you look good is disgusting. You and I both know that it's much more than that because we've been down this path before. I don't know how you can boldface lie and get away with it. My very initial post when I start to get a bit more detailed as to why I dislike you is absolutely nothing to do with Glyph at all. Look at #246. Tell me that there's a single mention of me coming at you because of the Glyph shot. How can you say you did your homework and re-read if you miss out on something that simple? This is one of the many reasons why I'm not putting up your bull**** because you're sloppy and it's the kind of slop that I wouldn't expect from you if you did feel strongly about it.

It's like backwards what he has been doing. The conversation with Laundry he most recently had also had me giving more town points to Laundry and more scum-points to Soup. His vote on me is purely based on "connections" and "regardless of flip, I'm comfortable with this". I am paraphrasing here, but soup is just lynching me at this point as a cop-out lynch and he has not really been evaluating me.

Pot calling kettle black. Your only stance on me is that I'm being passive and that I'm not evaluating you, based alone on why you dislike me. You sure about that? You sure about how many walls I've written on you, how many points I've made against you that you keep trying to shrug off? You're the one who can't face me completely forward and have the tenacity to say that I'm the one not trying to look into details. You're the one who ducked out of the thread with your tail between your legs when the going got tough.

He asked me to come and fight him, but I looked at his post and there really wasn't anything to fight him on. I mean, yeah I have a lot of connections, but at this point in 20pgs in, so does a lot of slots. Lynching someone based solely off connections and not because you find them is scummy is horrendous logic and pretty scummy to me.

I've been trying to get your attention and you keep blowing me off or refuse to confront me. I've gotten tired of your excuses and I figured the best thing I could do is outright announce that I want your head on a pike, hoping you would agress back. Even then, this is hardly anything. It feels like you're putting me down as scum for pure convieince but you cop out and decide to vote Red Ryu instead. What the ****? You've got all this reason to think I'm scum yet you keep eating your own words and only now have you had the gall to say that I'm scum completely.

Its like soup is not trying to really make any drastic waves and he just keeps needling my slot which has been doing since the shot as well. His playstyle has been incredibly passive this entire game until now where he decides that I am the best lynch for toDay which he has been doing for a really long time minus the minor instance where he decided to push Sparky for a bit which seemed odd the entire exchange because Sparky answered his qualms in a pretty towny manner.

You honestly can't say you're reading me if you try to spin my disposition like this. You honestly can't say that you're giving me a full read if your read on me remains completely stagnant and stale. I've been telling you almost all game to prove me wrong but you have continued to blow it off because you know you can't.

Your move.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Alright, that's fair enough to continue this discussion, but could you narrow down the question to something more succinct? It's a very big/bold/broad/vague question to look over everything about Moosy. What exactly do you want me to explain I disagree with?

Read my outline of that post I quoted of Moosy's.

Am I wrong in what I outlined? What specific do you disagree with?

With more recent posts did he explain it better? (This part I am looking into right now)

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Pushing J is the last thing he did before vanishing, only to come back to say he's not going to talk about anything

Oh right, derp me he did make that tunnel.

Why did I forget that.

Scatterbrain ruy so derpy, Ranmaru would be proud.

 

[#HBC | J]

My next move is this question to you soup:

Can you please outline the main points you have against me?

 

[Maven89]

*waves*

I do not think Glyph is town based on his shot. That is 100% null and I've said that from the beginning. His play is just quizzical.

Will you agree to put more pressure on the slot tomorrow to help me move it out of null? Cause I'm definitely seeing that Glyph isn't going to see a need to respond to us, and really all I want is for more pressure to be thrown on so he's forced to

This is really towards anyone. Long as people will force Glyph to do a better job defending himself I'm fine not voting him

 

[#HBC | J]

EBWOP: Like bullet points that are succinct/clear because I keep reading your paragraphs and getting lost in them.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

Oh right, derp me he did make that tunnel.

Why did I forget that.

Scatterbrain ruy so derpy, Ranmaru would be proud.

...have u also forgotten how I gave Glyph the chance to explain himself by asking him for the basis behind his tunnel on J which he flatly refused to give?

 

[#HBC | J]

Will you agree to put more pressure on the slot tomorrow to help me move it out of null? Cause I'm definitely seeing that Glyph isn't going to see a need to respond to us, and really all I want is for more pressure to be thrown on so he's forced to

This is really towards anyone. Long as people will force Glyph to do a better job defending himself I'm fine not voting him

Possibly, but Glyph is a really stubborn dude. I would love to clear up Glyph, but nearly everything about him makes it so we can't clear him. ToMorrow will be a big Day-Phase for the remainder of the game for a copious amount of reasons.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I honestly am not getting this. I'm understanding GLyph's shot is anti-town, I do not see how it being anti-town means that he is town and not scum. I do not comprehend the concept that anti-town can not be done by scum. If you're not town-reading Glyph, then I don't comprehend how people can be so upset that some players are not happy with Glyph's content, and want him to explain gaps in his argument.

The central problem is that we keep saying Glyph's play doesn't line up with his explanation for his shot, but people keep saying the shot alone makes him not-scum, then claim that we're saying the shot alone is why he's scum. It's not the case, we just really don't believe you can clear a person for the shot alone. People did just swallow his explanation because, as it's been stated again and again, he lied in it, and people didn't seem to care. Well I do care and I want him to explain why he lied and I'm not comfortable town-reading him until he explains it and I'm not comfortable letting that **** slide. If you're all so comfortable with it and willing to go as far as to lynch the players who aren't, then goddamn you're just opening yourself up to being played real easily. A player does this you push them hard. For all standards a strong town should slap Glyph and not let him get away with dragging us along on this.

Like, on another level, this **** happens because Dgames refuses to be strong enough to deal with it.

mmm...Maven's and J's reads lining up almost perfectly with mine gives me a weird twitch tho I'll admit.


soup and someone else was saying that Glyph might have a legitimate reason to scumread J and perform the shot. Go back and read the posts after the shot.

And ofc it makes Glyph scum where it makes more sense for scum to perform an action than town. Also, I've been stewing on the whole J vs Glyph situation for basically the first half of D1 lol and only posted my thoughts on it after I finalized it so of course I'm certain about my thoughts. I didn't want to post some half-cold stew on the shot and ramble everywhere so I only shared my thoughts after I went over possible reasoning for town and scum behind the shot, what I thought of their respective alignments outside of the shot, and their tone after the shot.

Let me cover both of these.

Town will do stupid things.

I do them all the time to where people like Laundry Ryker Raz Overswarm Swiss etc all ignore me a lot because if I am scum I just end up doing stupid stuff to where I look super scummy and if I am town I am not a threat as much as a read/pull power for one of them.

That is what happens with me, I am the black ranger not the red ranger, though I would be if I could step it up.

I'm only more likely to side with Glyph because I get why he shot.

That doesn't mean I think his action was smart nor clears him as town. I just think I get why he shot and I don't have an issue with it. Did he think J was scum later? Yeah he did when he got into a tunnel then went to no answer mode willing to die to seem him lynched, seriously how the hell did I forget about that?

What I have an issue with is instantly scum reading him on those actions which is what I feel like people are doing. I see issuing with him turning anti town at the end and doing i don't know what towards the end of his play when he was active. I get it there.

Do I think he was scummy past that point? No. I don't see him making a lie nor acting in a way that makes it look like he is scum. I'm rereading explanations but a lot of it seems more like to me that people find him scummy for the action where nothing he said could make it seem town. When really I don't think that sort of conclusion works in this situation with a lot of it not looking really into it.

Correct me if I am wrong on this, but this is where I am on that right now and I would rather look into the circles out of J and Glyph because I do not think we would be lynching either for a scum tell and more so just for information, which isn't a good lynch on that alone for me. I'd rather lynch slots that would more likely flip scum or just a lynch that would help town out more, Zaixl being a slot like that because I'm not sure he would be useful nor someone readable without a PR. But I would rather not lynch him off that unless we got nothing better, and we do.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Gonna tab this so I can read this later and get back to J + moosy.

Right now need to focus on this journal + one other write-up I need to finish up by tonight.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

Let me cover both of these.

Town will do stupid things.

I do them all the time to where people like Laundry Ryker Raz Overswarm Swiss etc all ignore me a lot because if I am scum I just end up doing stupid stuff to where I look super scummy and if I am town I am not a threat as much as a read/pull power for one of them.

That is what happens with me, I am the black ranger not the red ranger, though I would be if I could step it up.

I'm only more likely to side with Glyph because I get why he shot.

That doesn't mean I think his action was smart nor clears him as town. I just think I get why he shot and I don't have an issue with it. Did he think J was scum later? Yeah he did when he got into a tunnel then went to no answer mode willing to die to seem him lynched, seriously how the hell did I forget about that?

What I have an issue with is instantly scum reading him on those actions which is what I feel like people are doing. I see issuing with him turning anti town at the end and doing i don't know what towards the end of his play when he was active. I get it there.

Do I think he was scummy past that point? No. I don't see him making a lie nor acting in a way that makes it look like he is scum. I'm rereading explanations but a lot of it seems more like to me that people find him scummy for the action where nothing he said could make it seem town. When really I don't think that sort of conclusion works in this situation with a lot of it not looking really into it.

Correct me if I am wrong on this, but this is where I am on that right now and I would rather look into the circles out of J and Glyph because I do not think we would be lynching either for a scum tell and more so just for information, which isn't a good lynch on that alone for me. I'd rather lynch slots that would more likely flip scum or just a lynch that would help town out more, Zaixl being a slot like that because I'm not sure he would be useful nor someone readable without a PR. But I would rather not lynch him off that unless we got nothing better, and we do.

So I was basically right in continuously saying that you all are willing to let Glyph slide by throwing meta out as a blanket on terrible plays. smh. Such garbage. If he is town, his play was terrible and he should be pressured for it. If he is scum, the pressure should progress into a lynch.

Instead all I see is all of you letting him slip free and run off for his terrible play.

 

[Maven89]

...have u also forgotten how I gave Glyph the chance to explain himself by asking him for the basis behind his tunnel on J which he flatly refused to give?

I agree Glyph should be forced to give this, but it's not happening today

Who next?

 

[Maven89]

Also unless I'm wrong people are still overexagerating our pushes on Glyph, I don't believe either me or Mello insisted Glyph had to be scum, we just believe he could be and thought it was the best avenue to push

 

[#HBC | J]

Maven, what do you make of Soup?

 

[Maven89]

I don't like his slot at all and I'm planning to re-read it since the Glyph pursuit is on hold

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

My next move is this question to you soup:

Can you please outline the main points you have against me?

• You're too dismissive for my liking. You keep dodging me when I drop a question and It's been bothering me non-stop. Take example in #278 where I contested you with your point that I am just riding the power players and just trying to be buddy-buddy with them to paraphrase, but then I said that I liked your vote and you just completely blew it off. You blew it off knowing that your foundation of dislike which literally just came down to 'soup is following glyph and J and just parroting them' and your huge catchphrase of me playing 'passive' or whatever nonsense. I then write this giant wall for you to respond in #310 and you blow me off again.

• You're being sloppy and missing out of intricate details and trying to cookie-cutter everything. This point has already been exemplified with me responding about how you said my dislike was only because of the Glyph shot, which was 100% wrong. This is not town behavior for you to outright try to lie about something.

• You avoid me all the time. You avoided me on Spak. You avoided me with my walls. You avoided even when I tried to get simple questioning from you. Of course I am going to """needle'""" you because you won't properly address me and only hide behind your flimsy reasons to somewhat dislike me and not pressure me. Why? I can't simply believe that you're really that scared of me 'blowing up' and it's just a good excuse for you to continue to avoid and hide.

Those are my main gripes in the most condensed format I can make.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

What bothers me the most is that you've made simple answers and simple things that could be resolved into big problems because I feel I have to escalate them. You wouldn't be in this position if you just properly responded me for once instead of being all slanted about it and talking about my slot but not really talking to me.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

It literally amazes me that I've caught out on contradiction after contradiction and you've still got people like Maven eating up whatever you say and thinking you're town for the dumbest of reasons.

 

[#HBC | J]

Well before I respond, you seem to have all your points focused around how I have been treating you. Like all except maybe the second point where you said I lie about you which is a big word to use because that's not what I did at all.

I'll respond un momento.

 

[#HBC | J]

It literally amazes me that I've caught out on contradiction after contradiction and you've still got people like Maven eating up whatever you say and thinking you're town for the dumbest of reasons.

Your evidence is inconclusive and also just not true. That's why. You keep hyping up your points to make it seem like you have a bigger deal then you actually have because you are making it sound like you have gotten this bullet-proof case on me when it is nothing but conjecture based around me not wanting to touch your slot which I had explained in almost grandiose detail with yourself and Laundry.

People aren't eating up what I'm saying, they just don't want what you are serving.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Your evidence is inconclusive and also just not true. That's why. You keep hyping up your points to make it seem like you have a bigger deal then you actually have because you are making it sound like you have gotten this bullet-proof case on me when it is nothing but conjecture based around me not wanting to touch your slot which I had explained in almost grandiose detail with yourself and Laundry.

People aren't eating up what I'm saying, they just don't want what you are serving.

And..how exactly does it make you innocent for you to dismiss so suddenly? Maybe my case isn't completely sure-fire but I'm working with what I feel and know. That's all I ever do and we can could make more walls about how everything in mafia can come down to conjecture but it wouldn't get us anywhere. Yeah. My big reasons is how you're treating me because I think it's bull****, especially when I've been trying to hammer you out. I'm going to stick with my perception because even if you thought they were the most brain-dead and stupidest points ever to be made, they still need to be responded to. The very least you can do is respond to them. Give me an honest answer. Why the hell did you avoid all my walls?

 

[Maven89]

And..how exactly does it make you innocent for you to dismiss so suddenly? Maybe my case isn't completely sure-fire but I'm working with what I feel and know. That's all I ever do and we can could make more walls about how everything in mafia can come down to conjecture but it wouldn't get us anywhere. Yeah. My big reasons is how you're treating me because I think it's bull****, especially when I've been trying to hammer you out. I'm going to stick with my perception because even if you thought they were the most brain-dead and stupidest points ever to be made, they still need to be responded to. The very least you can do is respond to them. Give me an honest answer. Why the hell did you avoid all my walls?

Soup your argument really seems to be "J isn't respecting me". Which, I agree I don't feel he is. And I did look it up, you never did directly say you were supporting J in your 114 like you say. But J was giving you a minor null point, and wasn't using it to suggesting anything else about you, and since you were talking to him I can easily see how J thought you were agreeing with him. I definitely don't see any scum intentions in it. It instead just looks like he wasn't giving you the respect you feel you deserve.

But why are you voting him for that? Does it really require a lynch?

 

[Maven89]

Unvote: Glyph

I'm gonna watch you sleep

 

[MoosyDoosy]

Soup your argument really seems to be "J isn't respecting me". Which, I agree I don't feel he is. And I did look it up, you never did directly say you were supporting J in your 114 like you say. But J was giving you a minor null point, and wasn't using it to suggesting anything else about you, and since you were talking to him I can easily see how J thought you were agreeing with him. I definitely don't see any scum intentions in it. It instead just looks like he wasn't giving you the respect you feel you deserve.

But why are you voting him for that? Does it really require a lynch?

woah woah wait this is important.

 

[#HBC | J]

Well, I never said that your points were brain-dead/stupidest anywhere and if you feel disrespected by me, then I apologize because that is not what I meant to do. If you are talking about disrespecting in the beginning of the game, then I am sorry but I am really jaded when talking to you because of the trouble you have caused me years in mafia. It's pretty much the thing for Laundry has against me is the same thing I Have against you sans, I refuse to blow up at people/resort to snide comments.

I understand that you may have qualms with how you think I have been responding to things, but literally your points are extremely null against me and I do not see why from a townSoup PoV why you would deem those qualities the best for a D1 lynch.

I haven't been avoiding your walls, it's just I do not really see much to respond to because nothing was explicitly laid out like other slots have been doing for me. Again, I think you are blowing up your points to seem like you have more weight to them then they actually are worth.

 

[Maven89]

woah woah wait this is important.

Let Soup respond to it

 

[#HBC | J]

Underlying question for soup:

Do you find me actually scummy or are you trying to lynch me based off of personal gripes?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Soup your argument really seems to be "J isn't respecting me". Which, I agree I don't feel he is. And I did look it up, you never did directly say you were supporting J in your 114 like you say. But J was giving you a minor null point, and wasn't using it to suggesting anything else about you, and since you were talking to him I can easily see how J thought you were agreeing with him. I definitely don't see any scum intentions in it. It instead just looks like he wasn't giving you the respect you feel you deserve.

But why are you voting him for that? Does it really require a lynch?

You know, maybe it is a little of disrespect, but I'm not treating J any different than someone who doesn't confort me. Honest meta or whatever you call it, my biggest mafia pet peeve is when I feel like I'm ignored or someone isn't responding to me, and I usually take those traits as someone who simply can't therefore they must be doing it intentionally. It's an abrasive way of thinking but I think back to this game me and Zen played. It was ERB Mafia and we spent a whole day-phase trying to kill Dietz while he tried to deflect us and he somehow got away with murder that phase and we were blown off. I kept throwing and throwing and throwing things at him but people simply wouldn't listen or Dietz found a way to get out of it. The same thing happened with Kantrip in Kary's game. The same thing happened in my most recent game.

I try so ****ing hard to get my lynch and I can never seem to get it. I want to be confident in myself and I want to push what I feel is right. I can't stand looking at a game and seeing a direction that I don't like, especially when I'm town.

I just took a literal deep breath. I don't want to feel I'm wrong because then I feel I'm ****. I don't want to be wrong about this, and I feel those same vibes I got back with Dietz and Kantrip, where they got away. I don't want to let that happen again and for me to back down, so I'm swallowing all of my pride.

What frustrates me however is that you might actually be right and I might have looked at J from a perspective where I was trying to guess why he was dodging me and made it out like all those other times. I really really hate having to back down on something. I'm gonna look at J again.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Underlying question for soup:

Do you find me actually scummy or are you trying to lynch me based off of personal gripes?

You'd be surprised to hear that most of my read has been one where I've been trying to blur the lines of J and reading you based on your play right now. This is why I kept you at null because in the back of my head I felt that if I looked at you in the sense of meta, you weren't as terrible as I made it out to be. I'm really ****ing stubborn though and that's what it comes down to, and yes, I do find benefit in your lynch based on how people will react to it.

Damnit. My fire feels burned out too soon. I'm not completely ready to let this go. I will give you a full read either over the night or whenever I get the proper motivation

 

[Maven89]

I mean I myself have absolutely lost my mind trying to force J to respond to me before when he was scum, I just really don't see that taking place here, overall I've noticed J playing very differently then what I've seen of him Day 1 and different from how people say he plays Day 1. I only have two real examples of that, but I'm going to admit the fact that he's actually not sitting back and is actually engaging people (which I do think he is, even if he wasn't really discussing you) are all actual pretty big points in his favor, lacking anything else of scum note.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I mean I myself have absolutely lost my mind trying to force J to respond to me before when he was scum, I just really don't see that taking place here, overall I've noticed J playing very differently then what I've seen of him Day 1 and different from how people say he plays Day 1. I only have two real examples of that, but I'm going to admit the fact that he's actually not sitting back and is actually engaging people (which I do think he is, even if he wasn't really discussing you) are all actual pretty big points in his favor, lacking anything else of scum note.

If you had these thoughts, why didn't you put them more into focus? Tell me more about what you feel is different and how you still town-read J because of it.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

Okay, next step for me is to look at both Ryu and soup again and figure out whether their change in direction is town or scum.

 

[Maven89]

What was your point going to be?

 

[MoosyDoosy]

What was your point going to be?

Who is this addressed to?

 

[Maven89]

woah woah wait this is important.

I assumed you had a followup explaining this

 

[MoosyDoosy]

I assumed you had a followup explaining this

Well, let me explain my thoughts and the standstill I’m in.

I dislike both soup and Glyph.

- Say Glyph is scum. If scum!Glyph continues his unexplained tunnel on J and shoots J as promised on D2, there is little reason for scum!soup to tunnel on J here as J is essentially already dead. In a world where Glyph is scum, I don’t think soup is scum mates with him as it would be much more productive for soup to focus on other people.

- Since Glyph and soup can’t be scum together, let’s take a look at the world where soup is scum. soup!scum has motivation to egg on blue!Glyph by saying J is scum, especially if thread sentiment starts to turn in favor of J being town. However, scum!soup has also set up the scenario where he has promised to kill Glyph if J flips town which looks to be the case here. In this case, both J and Glyph are town.

While the second scenario seems all the more likely, it’s still WIFOM and I have a scum read on Glyph which is irritating as the second scenario shows Glyph has to be bad town and not scum. However, if Raziek, Laundry, FML are right about both Glyph and J being town, then soup being scum makes so much sense…

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

he has promised to kill Glyph if J flips town which looks to be the case here. In this case, both J and Glyph are town.

No? Where did you get this Moosy? I think Glyph is town and I was only going to lynch him if he was BSing his shot.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

Okay, I’m bad at explaining myself. Basically, I don’t think Glyph and soup are scummates together. But if Glyph is scum, then soup is town. If soup is scum, then Glyph has to be bad town instead. The problem here is that I have Glyph as a strong scum read and I want him dead.

 

[Takamagahara]

With 15 alive it takes 8 to Lynch!
1. FML
2. J [2]: Glyphmoney, Soup
3. Soup
4. Maven [1]: Raziek
5. Bardiculous [1] Laundry
6. Red Ryu [1]: J
7. Raziek
8. Mal_Thug
9. Laundry
10. Fandangox
11. Glyphmoney [1]: Moosy
12. Spak
13. MooseyDoosey [1]: Red Ryu
14. SlickWylde
15. Zaixl [4]: Bard, Spak, FML, Slick

Not Voting: Fandangox, Mal_Thug, Zaixl, Maven
Day 1 Deadline is Midnight EST, Friday the 23rd!

 

[MoosyDoosy]

No? Where did you get this Moosy? I think Glyph is town and I was only going to lynch him if he was BSing his shot.

By BS'ing, didn't you mean regarding the outcome of his shot?