Blazblue Mafia Extend: Game Over - NYANCAT In Charge!

[mallorean_thug]

I'm not gonna vote until tomorrow. We have till Friday, I'm in no rush.

This is anti-town.

Sure, we know you're guaranteed town, so your votes are way less valuable to us for co-alingment stuff and narrowing down possible worlds, but you're fostering an enviroment where the scum team doesn't have to put down votes either.

AND, you're forfeiting any and all pressure that you could be putting on the slots you think are scummy.

Nobody is going to actually die from your vote this early, but if you don't vote, nobody is going to have to think about the possibility that they might die in the future. and the difference in reaction to that is one of the ways we can find scum.

I promised yesterDay that I was going to beat this drum toDay, so here it is: There is absolutely no reason for anybody to be abstaining at this point in the game. Town wants to know who everybody's hardest scumread is at all times, and the way you represent that is with a vote.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

At a computer now. Phone posting is the bane of my existence.

I'm mainly looking at people who spear-headed the Maven lynch and also some sideliners toDay because people like Fanny/Maven/Moosy/Sparky who have been on Glyph ring as towny to me whereas the other side of the battlefield is "Glyph is anti-town and a crapshoot, but let's keep him around anyways" and the latter half won out somehow.

What about the people who decided he was town, e.g Me, Laundry, Bardull(?) There is still a couple of slots that don't fit into this category and I disagree that all glyph haters are good. Moosy and Sparky aren't really good to me based on their read of Glyph and I hope you're not completely like that too. Laundry said earlier that I was trying to bring up a false dichotomy making it into a Us vs. Them mentality when in reality I was just being an ass and making light of a sort of funny situation where it felt like one. I hope you're not reading all of those slots (one of them being dead) merely based on the fact they disliked Glyph. Is your fanny read based solely alone on how he has handled/talked about Glyph?

Meanwhile, I'm here in the middle watching it all because of the fact that it revolves around his shot to me and I've been put in quite the precarious position.

I mean, you don't get to complain about people talking about Glyph if the lynch your side chose to do flipped town. I'm definitely more willing to listen to the other side now.

It's relevant to the game thread in the worst way, and that's what is so horrible. The problem you face is the fact both sides are stubborn and playing into the situation regardless if Glyph is town or scum. That's why I feel it's not fruitful to really read anything in regards to him because people are just either going to continue to muddle or continue to defend him. It's all not worth the time and I reserve the right to be angry about it.

This game is more down the middle than people seem to be looking at it from and also we have some strange slots that are in weird positions/connections. (I will definitely acknowledge I'm in the category)

A perfect in-the-middle example here would be Mallo and I've been thinking about that slot a lot more lately. Not only because he shot a vote at me and has been yelling at my ear about things he doesn't like, but also that he's played the game not really committed to either side. I do not think all townies are the ones engaging in this stupid battle, but I would take a chance at someone like Mallo to possibly fit the description of someone who is just watching it conspire.

 

[mallorean_thug]

Raziek I'm sure you're in the middle of a wall atm, but here's something for you:

Who came off the scummiest in avoiding the Maven wagon? There's been a lot of talk about finding the scum /on/ that wagon, but I'm pretty confident that we're not going to find the entire scum team packed into those 6 (5 for you) candidates. Talk about somebody in the other 7 (6 for me) remaining, with a focus on their posts justifying wherever else their vote was sitting.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

(@Soup , this doesn't mean you're off the hook, but your content yesterDay after you calmed down, and early toDay gave me enough pause to merit a reread while I explore some other options. Please vote as soon as you get to that computer though)

I'm thinking of voting you or Raz, but leaning more on you because I'm struggling to find your commitment. You've been playing the game in such a way that you can't really be traced to anything that has happened thus far because you have stuck to your mechanic posts, vote analyzation, and other repertoire. I remember having a decent impression of you but when I read back your posts didn't stick with me. You're analytical about some things but you never really take the proper steps to do anything about it and just go on a tangent about how things like voting and such are important to you, but apparently not crucial to how you scumhunt.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Based on Revivial of DGames D1, Fanny posted 43 times, a vast majority of which were legitimate questions that others didn't ask, observations that progressed the game along, or stating his viewpoint on how the game has progressed thus far. In D1 of this game, however,
*Goes back and checks*
...
Fanny posted 39 times, and... uh... a vast majority of those questions were legitimate questions that others didn't ask, observations that progressed the game along, or stating his viewpoint on how the game has progressed thus far.

I guess it just felt like he contributed more D1 of DGames because I was the scrubby kid that didn't know how to play Mafia well and thus got questioned by him a lot. Also, Fanny spread out his content more evenly this game (because of pretty much no RVS) and had a big burst of content the last few real-life days of DGames D1.

Carry on.

Unvote

fwiw i like that spak actually straight up admitted he was wrong here and dropped the read. Rather than poke at it sidelong and find a new reason tk dig there

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

EBWOP: I mean, you go out of your way to write the reads post but there's like.. no in-between after. You come to your conclusions without interaction for the most part and I simply don't understand that. What you write looks good on the surface but that's about it. There's not really any meat.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Also, someone showing the line of reasoning that you would expect from experience off of a previous town game with them is a sign to townread them. Also, someone showing the same line of reasoning as you in general is a sign that they're town too. Like hello? Literally the main reason why you guys voted for Maven was because he had a different way of obtaining reads that you guys didn't stop to try and understand.

But...rhats not why we voted for maven. Or at least my slot. We voted flr him because what he said he was trying to do wasnt reflecting in the degree of his actions in thread.

EBWOP: Haven't seen him claim a shot.


Pls give your thoughts on the Maven wagon, how it formed, and what slot on it you think is scummiest.

Pick the scummiest hater from yesterday.

Do you still think J is obvscum?

he said he was gonna shoot us last night towards the end of yesterday

What do you make of FML? They are someone on my radar because I keep looking at their play and not really seeing scum-hunting, but fire fanning.

I mean, they made a big deal about pushing Red Ryu yesterDay, but then simultaneously folded onto Zaixl within a page span.

we explaimed why we dropped off ryu, and i(orbo) was the one to go to zaix.
Also, @ruy rake wants a solid read on soupvslaundry and specifically laundrys swap and soups reactio

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I think in terms of priority for me It'd be Raz/Mallo/Laundry.

Only one of them have I really delved into and thought about and the others have been cursory glances and mild concern. My thoughts on Raz were already summarized to an extent and I'm not going to pretend I want to read a whole 1000+ game, along with whatever Raz posted. I'm more about the interaction so I just noted that I felt like Raz was a little strange amongst what the hell happened to with Maven, though I should've probably stopped being such a lazy **** and watched the votecounts. It is quite important to me and I liked Mallo's post only because he managed to bring it up, though that doesn't mean I necessarily like him.

Laundry's been alluded to very little but I'm honestly waiting for him to strike first at this rate.

Everyone really I simply don't care about or don't think is worth lynching right now. I also have something in my back pocket but I'm sure everyone sort of saw it, and that may become important later in the day and

Spoiler

Might be one of the reasons I am reading one of these players like I am

.

 

[mallorean_thug]

Sure Soup, I've been playing my cards pretty close to my chest. That is on purpose. If you don't like it and you don't like how many interactions I have, definitely pressure me to change that. That's literally how you play this game. That said, please vote rather than doubtcast, regardless of which direction you go in.

I also pretty clearly have less time to devote to this game than several other players, and I'm trying to use my time in the best way I know how. I'd like to ask hard questions, but its much harder when you don't know the players involved. Now that we're on D2, hopefully I should do better, having seen how everybody played D1.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Sure Soup, I've been playing my cards pretty close to my chest. That is on purpose. If you don't like it and you don't like how many interactions I have, definitely pressure me to change that. That's literally how you play this game. That said, please vote rather than doubtcast, regardless of which direction you go in.

I also pretty clearly have less time to devote to this game than several other players, and I'm trying to use my time in the best way I know how. I'd like to ask hard questions, but its much harder when you don't know the players involved. Now that we're on D2, hopefully I should do better, having seen how everybody played D1.

This is a more prompt response compared to the walls you usually dish out. All I'm wondering is that you seem to really care about votals and whatnot but it never really goes into your thought process as to why you read certain players like you do. You quoted those wagons and made light of them, though you didn't do anything. Is it just something to be kept for your personal use, or are you going to make a point out of them?

I will say that I didn't expect you to say 'pressure me and I'll change'. I don't think I've ever gotten a type of response like that in a while, especially when you're saying 'hey that's how I play.'

Am I scum if I continue to not vote?

 

[FullMetalLynch]

So, who did NOT vote for Maven yesterday? While not a sure thing, I'm fairly confident at least one mafia member voted for Maven along with the rest of us. I would be surprised if neither one did. I wouldn't be surprised if they both voted. (Would be smart not to vote, but mislynches are very good for Mafia)

Rake told me to link you the upside down thumbs up picture he used earlier in the thread

This slot is also a problem.

If I read someone as Town, and someone reads someone else as Town, then I don't need to worry about someone contesting my approach to a given slot.

What exactly is the problem here, and why does it deserve a vote?

why are you even worried about people contesting your approach? That statement read to me as saying "i don't want people questioning how I do things this game or getting in my way" which is a terribad way of thinking.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Ok, so here's somebody I'd actually like to hear more from:

Vote: FullMetalLynch

Seriously, who do you think is scum? I keep trying to follow your thought process this game, and all I can find is over the top responses to whatever recent snippet scores the highest on the surface level "gross ****" meter. You're in the bottom third of people voting, despite being the in the top third of people posting, and I don't feel like anybody has come under any serious pressure from you.

Day 2 needs fresh wagons for the votal gods, and this is a slot that hasn't gotten nearly enough scrutiny.

(@Soup , this doesn't mean you're off the hook, but your content yesterDay after you calmed down, and early toDay gave me enough pause to merit a reread while I explore some other options. Please vote as soon as you get to that computer though)

Bardull and the zaix slot. Rake wants to drop ryu back down tk null for basocally not doing anything except sitting on moosey. Id like raz to get morenin the game

So, who did NOT vote for Maven yesterday? While not a sure thing, I'm fairly confident at least one mafia member voted for Maven along with the rest of us. I would be surprised if neither one did. I wouldn't be surprised if they both voted. (Would be smart not to vote, but mislynches are very good for Mafia)

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Ok, so here's somebody I'd actually like to hear more from:

Vote: FullMetalLynch

Seriously, who do you think is scum? I keep trying to follow your thought process this game, and all I can find is over the top responses to whatever recent snippet scores the highest on the surface level "gross ****" meter. You're in the bottom third of people voting, despite being the in the top third of people posting, and I don't feel like anybody has come under any serious pressure from you.

Day 2 needs fresh wagons for the votal gods, and this is a slot that hasn't gotten nearly enough scrutiny.

(@Soup , this doesn't mean you're off the hook, but your content yesterDay after you calmed down, and early toDay gave me enough pause to merit a reread while I explore some other options. Please vote as soon as you get to that computer though)

Bardull and the zaix slot. Rake wants to drop ryu back down tk null for basocally not doing anything except sitting on moosey. Id like raz to get morenin the game than he is nut that seems to be in the process ofbhappening
Also, i don't vote a lot. In general. Thats not going to change just because you dknt like it.
Also also, while weve gkt a fair amount of posts, theyve also been in large bursts over small periods of time (hell we didnt even post at all last thursday), so id contest that we actually havent been here asuch as you make us put to be.

 

[Raziek]

One of Soup or Bardull is scum. I just can't figure out which.

Want to know more about this.

I do not like Soup's approaches to any of his wagons or reads today. I don't like how he was setting up the game as J vs Glyfe and we needed to lynch one. It's a very underhanded approach to get his wagon. I don't like his J wagon in the slightest. I don't like how flaky he is and how much he falls back into the armchair when the read he's making isn't completely obvious.

All that said, I think there's still room for Soup to be town and I don't like the way scumBardull would be treating townSoup in that regard. I don't like how he approached me to say "yeh you were right about Soup, why'd you back off" but then not fully commit to a Soup vote even as of yet in the thread. I think it's a gross approach, I don't like how he pushed me to push it but never pushed it himself. It's a very grimy approach and is the entire basis of my distrust of Bardull.

Do you have some specific examples on the "I don't like how he was setting up the game as J vs Glyfe and we needed to lynch one." point? I remember a few people doing this but he didn't stand out in particular.

Honestly, I still feel that Glyph doing what he did was just too anti-town to be blatant scum. I don't actually think everyone voting for the slot at any point in time are scum, I'm saying that Glyph is an easy lynch because of how blatantly bat-**** ******** Glyph was going into the game. I'll concede I could be wrong, but I don't think so at the moment.

His absence is bothering me though, and he should get in here to voice where he thinks we should go.

I'll address this in my BarWalL coming up.

Same to this

What does this have to do with my read on Fandango?

I was entirely uninterested in throwing walls at you, so I trying to change your direction before you even got started. If you really want it though, then you'll get it.

This string of posts seems strangely confrontational. Why the aggression towards J, Bardull? What is your stance on his slot currently?

Going to chunk this up a bit rather than just make a huge post.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Raziek

Even though I had your entry on the Maven wagon wrong, I still feel uneasy about you. Start off by telling me how you're going into this day knowing that Maven was town and how you're reading Laundry in regards to it. You never really were the sole aggressor of Maven but you surely seemed to hop onto it anyways for almost identical reason.

 

[Raziek]

Vote: Glyph

@DtJ Glyphmoney Where are you? What are your reads? How do you explains the inconsistencies in your claim? It's been almost a WEEK since you last said anything.

I like this vote, because this is also somewhere I want to be looking.

Though I don't think his claim is telling on his alignment, his total disappearance is a problem. Are you still looking at J? If not, who? You had a 2nd ability you mentioned. Since Bardull is claiming RB'd, any fun stuff to share from that?

How do you feel after mavens flip

This question is pretty vague, but I don't feel it was an incorrect lynch. I plan to take a look back at how the wagon gathered momentum. I was the first vote on there after my cursory re-read, but I mostly skimmed how the wagon actually built because I was reading through like 12 pages at that point. I don't think Laundry looks bad from it, as I have a strong Town read on Alex currently and his thoughts on it were very in line with my own. Possibly potential in the mid-late jump-ons?

I don't have enough time to get my hands completely dirty but the one thing I'd like to see someone follow-up on is bardull claiming one of the glyph voters is scum; unless fanny is one of them.

The disparity between the fact everyone is treating the maven lynch like it never happened (I haven't seen a single person chime in on how it went down or if scum was on it) and the fact there was nothing that happened last night leaves a sour taste I my mouth especially the people who are defaulting right back on glyph almost immediately. It's bull****.

J is less of a concern after re-read and I'm going to look at him more at face value, and I have other things I want to talk about and do when I can get on a computer.

This post seems kinda whack to me. Why are you ****ting on everyone else when the thread was open for like 12 hours at that point?

I agree with the latter aspect of the post (re: people defaulting back on Glyph), but I think this reads kind of like deflecting any affiliation with the wagon. That said I can't remember if you were even voting on it, so maybe there's not even affiliation to deflect here.

Based on Revivial of DGames D1, Fanny posted 43 times, a vast majority of which were legitimate questions that others didn't ask, observations that progressed the game along, or stating his viewpoint on how the game has progressed thus far. In D1 of this game, however,
*Goes back and checks*
...
Fanny posted 39 times, and... uh... a vast majority of those questions were legitimate questions that others didn't ask, observations that progressed the game along, or stating his viewpoint on how the game has progressed thus far.

I guess it just felt like he contributed more D1 of DGames because I was the scrubby kid that didn't know how to play Mafia well and thus got questioned by him a lot. Also, Fanny spread out his content more evenly this game (because of pretty much no RVS) and had a big burst of content the last few real-life days of DGames D1.

Carry on.

Unvote

I like this post. This shows me a genuine willingess to legitimately re-evaluate a somewhat shallow read, rather than try to fabricate a stance to support it.

Thanks for the answer, mod.

I like both Moosy and Sparky, but I kind of disagree with a lot of what they are saying. Though disagreement isn't inherently scummy. I just find both misguided in their attempts to scum-hunt and I see the gears turning/trying to convey what they mean.

Wouldn't vote either of them for toDay's sake.

You said you wanted to open a channel of communication, so help me out here.

I'm starting to get a read on Spak, but I am really having trouble getting a bead on Moosy. I am trying not to get myself stuck in 'he disagrees with me therefore he is scum', so what exactly is making you townread him? If you can point to some specific posts and the intent you see in the interactions that would help me a lot.

ScumGlyph is simply not capable of planning like this and ensuring his team's victory. No one in this thread is like that. This is probably the most contrived statement you've made all game.

I think this is important to highlight. ScumGlyph doing what he did and then vanishing completely is literal suicide of a slot. Glyph likes to take risks, but that's playing so far against the wincon that I really struggle to see it being possible.

 

[Raziek]

Raziek

Even though I had your entry on the Maven wagon wrong, I still feel uneasy about you. Start off by telling me how you're going into this day knowing that Maven was town and how you're reading Laundry in regards to it. You never really were the sole aggressor of Maven but you surely seemed to hop onto it anyways for almost identical reason.

I think this got mostly answered in my last post, but I will once again point out that I was the FIRST on, not a 'hop on'.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

This question is pretty vague, but I don't feel it was an incorrect lynch. I plan to take a look back at how the wagon gathered momentum. I was the first vote on there after my cursory re-read, but I mostly skimmed how the wagon actually built because I was reading through like 12 pages at that point. I don't think Laundry looks bad from it, as I have a strong Town read on Alex currently and his thoughts on it were very in line with my own. Possibly potential in the mid-late jump-ons?

You don't think Laundry could've been pulling some strings? You do know that he's good enough to emulate his townplay so I don't know if this is a meta read or purely something else. Talk more about it.

 

[SlickWylde]

Fine, I'll put my big boy pants on. Forget your thumbs down pictures lol.

Vote: Red Ryu
@ASC | Red Ryu What's with that Moosy vote? That seems totally out of the blue.

Spak
I find it odd that you took the time to call out my post and say "If you weren't confirmed town you'd be lynched". That seems like a weird comment to take the time to dedicate a post to.

Looks like Raziek started posting, he's another person I'm interested in. I like his last string of posts.

So my interests today are: J, Glyph, Spak, Red Ryu, and Raziek. And I guess Zaix.

 

[mallorean_thug]

Ok, let's do this the other way, and put that FML pressure on hold for a moment

Am I scum if I continue to not vote?

No, you're scum because of **** like this:

The disparity between the fact everyone is treating the maven lynch like it never happened (I haven't seen a single person chime in on how it went down or if scum was on it)

He [Laundry] spearheaded a lynch on a townie and you should be considering if it was just a scum setting up a ML or a town simply wrong.

It just annoyed me people like moosy came out and said he [Laundry] was town because he lead the lynch.

I know a lot of people are going to claim they were trying to Prevent NL but I dislike you among anyone just defaulting back to glyph, unless you believe that only town voted maven.

Because I don't think all the glyph voters are town.

Ok, so I think these five quotes illustrate Soup's mudspewing hypocrisy the best.

He comes into the thread very worried about the Maven wagon (a wagon that he was completely confused about the contents of up until I posted that votal). So, does he start pressuring somebody that was on that wagon? No, instead he starts harassing Moosy. Does he "chime in on how it went down"? No, he brings up the topic, but doesn't answer it himself, or really ask it as a pointed question.

Then he starts harassing Moosy on the topic, and brings up that he wants everybody to doubt their townreads on Laundry because he lynched a townie. I mean, presumably, everybody has already done this overnight, because that was the last piece of info we got yesterday. But does Soup have a straight opinion on Laundry yet? Nope, maybe he'll share that with us another day.

Then he wants to put some shade on anybody that consolidated onto Maven at the end. Except that he's one of them: #988 ? Not only is he one of them, but he's actually the person that made Maven the majority wagon at the time of his post. Like, spot #5 isn't /quite/ as bad as spot #4, but he did the whole "abstain, will vote either easy wagon later" thing earlier in the day that I voted him for.

And then, forget all this focus on the Maven wagon, Soup wants you to also suspect the people on the Glyph wagon, pulling focus from the one thing he's yelling about people pulling focus from already.

That AND the fact you don't want to vote. As long as you're not voting, its harder for people to see the disconnect between your actions and your words.

So, let's try this wagon again:

Vote: Soup

 

[Raziek]

Here's the final votal, because Ryker never got around to posting it:



Here's one from a little bit earlier, when Glyph's wagon was at its peak, before people started consolidating over to Maven:


And here's one from a bit earlier than that, right after Zaixl self-voted, when his wagon was at its peak.


Hmmm . . .

Raziek I'm sure you're in the middle of a wall atm, but here's something for you:

Who came off the scummiest in avoiding the Maven wagon? There's been a lot of talk about finding the scum /on/ that wagon, but I'm pretty confident that we're not going to find the entire scum team packed into those 6 (5 for you) candidates. Talk about somebody in the other 7 (6 for me) remaining, with a focus on their posts justifying wherever else their vote was sitting.

Ok, so you conveniently provided the votal for me, which makes this easier.

So looking at the final votal:

J (1): DtJGlyphmoney (#296)
Soup (1): mallorean_thug (#911)
Zaixl (1): BarDuIL (#1026)
DtJGlyphmoney (2): MoosyDoosy (#552), Spak (#896)
Maven (8): Raziek (#754), Laundry (#853), RedRyu (#870), FullMetalLynch (#977), Soup (#988), SlickWylde (#991), Fandangox (#1067), Maven (#1068)

Abstaining (2): Zaixl, J

First, looking at those ON the wagon. Slick is Town confirmed. Laundry is currently my strongest Town read. Ruy is a fairly strong Town lean. FML, Soup, Fan are currently sitting in null.

Looking at those NOT on it....

Glyph disappeared, so it's inaccurate to say he avoided the wagon, as he simply wasn't around.
Basically the same in your case, as your Soup vote was a bit of a leftover.
Bardull's switch off at the end.... I'm not sure how I feel. I can see that being legitimate attempt to switch off of a lynch he thought was wrong. Didn't look like fishing for 'I told you so' credit to me.

The one that stand out to me the most is Moosy, because he had his vote on Glyph SUPER early and never moved it. He justified doing so as a result of agreeing with Maven's reads and thus not wanting to vote him. However, he also did not participate in any of the earlier wagons either.

Unfortunately I don't have a strong conclusion to draw from this as I am still trying to form a stronger read on Moosy myself, thus my question to J.

Now, a return question: You posted the votal, but only had "Hmmmm..." to say. Do you have any conclusions you have drawn from it? Is that part of what has influenced your vote on FML?

 

[FullMetalLynch]

PSA-
Rake got canned from his job harder than hiroshima and nagasaki got leveled, so you're basocally dealing with orbo whenever he gets in thread for a while

 

[Raziek]

You don't think Laundry could've been pulling some strings? You do know that he's good enough to emulate his townplay so I don't know if this is a meta read or purely something else. Talk more about it.

Pulling some strings how?

Alex isn't a puppetmaster, he's far more direct than that. I have been strongly agreeing with most of his pushes and he has asked a lot of questions I feel are effective and deliberate. His most recent interaction with Spak in particular just SCREAMED TvT at me. Did you see any scum intent in Alex getting Spak to re-examine his read on Fanny? What does he have to gain by doing so?

Part of my read is meta, but I feel like I am generally pretty good at feeling when Alex is scum. His scum play is manufactured. Alex is aggressive as either alignment, but the key distinction I often spot is in noting when he asks good questions, rather than when he is just threadbullying.

 

[Raziek]

Ok, let's do this the other way, and put that FML pressure on hold for a moment


No, you're scum because of **** like this:

Ok, so I think these five quotes illustrate Soup's mudspewing hypocrisy the best.

He comes into the thread very worried about the Maven wagon (a wagon that he was completely confused about the contents of up until I posted that votal). So, does he start pressuring somebody that was on that wagon? No, instead he starts harassing Moosy. Does he "chime in on how it went down"? No, he brings up the topic, but doesn't answer it himself, or really ask it as a pointed question.

Then he starts harassing Moosy on the topic, and brings up that he wants everybody to doubt their townreads on Laundry because he lynched a townie. I mean, presumably, everybody has already done this overnight, because that was the last piece of info we got yesterday. But does Soup have a straight opinion on Laundry yet? Nope, maybe he'll share that with us another day.

Then he wants to put some shade on anybody that consolidated onto Maven at the end. Except that he's one of them: #988 ? Not only is he one of them, but he's actually the person that made Maven the majority wagon at the time of his post. Like, spot #5 isn't /quite/ as bad as spot #4, but he did the whole "abstain, will vote either easy wagon later" thing earlier in the day that I voted him for.

And then, forget all this focus on the Maven wagon, Soup wants you to also suspect the people on the Glyph wagon, pulling focus from the one thing he's yelling about people pulling focus from already.

That AND the fact you don't want to vote. As long as you're not voting, its harder for people to see the disconnect between your actions and your words.

So, let's try this wagon again:

Vote: Soup

Ah, this helps a lot actually. This explains more of that 'deflection' feeling that I mentioned in my 1256.

Willing to support this wagon right now.

Vote: soup

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

He comes into the thread very worried about the Maven wagon (a wagon that he was completely confused about the contents of up until I posted that votal). So, does he start pressuring somebody that was on that wagon? No, instead he starts harassing Moosy. Does he "chime in on how it went down"? No, he brings up the topic, but doesn't answer it himself, or really ask it as a pointed question.

It was more of a perspective of what I wanted to see out of the thread or expected, but instead people glanced over it completely. It wasn't anything I was wholly interested in rather I was more expectant for people to be at least analyzing it. You're completely right on me being lazy but I also have phone excuses and my capacity to offer diminishes when I'm on it.

Then he starts harassing Moosy on the topic, and brings up that he wants everybody to doubt their townreads on Laundry because he lynched a townie. I mean, presumably, everybody has already done this overnight, because that was the last piece of info we got yesterday. But does Soup have a straight opinion on Laundry yet? Nope, maybe he'll share that with us another day.

I wasn't harassing Moosy unless you're going to use the word 'harass' as a connotation of it not being deserved. You're going to tell me how this is falls into scum behavior because townies can harass people too. Quick question, do you live in a world where people can question a slot without having a case on someone? That's really my only response here because you're telling me that I don't have a straight opinion on laundry. You're right. I do not. I want Laundry to talk to me and I want to see if he's going to go forward with whatever he was saying about me. My previous read to me is not sufficient given the reasons I stated. If you have a problem with them, I may take one out of your book and say that "you may pressure me if you do." You were also a different issue who came off the cuff of my thoughts and I wanted to bring attention to you; Laundry is going to be the opposite. Make sense?

Then he wants to put some shade on anybody that consolidated onto Maven at the end. Except that he's one of them: #988 ? Not only is he one of them, but he's actually the person that made Maven the majority wagon at the time of his post. Like, spot #5 isn't /quite/ as bad as spot #4, but he did the whole "abstain, will vote either easy wagon later" thing earlier in the day that I voted him for.[/qoute]

You caught me. I voted Maven trying to prevent a NL and solely thinking that Laundry's points were decent. String me up right now and forget about all the other people who might have possibly done the same thing. When I said 'hey we should be focusing on that maven lynch there could be scum' I was merely looking for an avenue of discussion. I'm going to continue to vote no one because I don't jump when you say me do and I hope it makes you angry.

And then, forget all this focus on the Maven wagon, Soup wants you to also suspect the people on the Glyph wagon, pulling focus from the one thing he's yelling about people pulling focus from already.

Read this line back to me and tell me if it makes sense to you:

"I, Mallory, realize that my reasoning to suspect someone who is merely curious about events he/she does not know about, is not scummy unless given context. I will try to give context for things next time instead of trying to paint people in a bad light, for I wish to be a good townie."

I'm pretty sure you're gonna tell me I'm deflecting but there's a beautiful thing called burden of proof. Tell me my scum intention to try and get people to open up about these wagons, or tell me how I'm scum when I made something out of it and said that I don't think all Glyph voters are town. These are things that I've been getting to as you can see in the thread.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Ah, this helps a lot actually. This explains more of that 'deflection' feeling that I mentioned in my 1256.

Willing to support this wagon right now.

Vote: soup

I never voted Glyph once Raziek.

 

[Spak]

Did you just read 80 or so of my posts in the moment that you voted and unvoted me? Who is your biggest scumread? What's your biggest townread?

I scanned through 80 of your posts and compared the types of questions you were asking when I went back and looked at the posts. I searched for big differences in playstyle, and saw very, very few. My biggest scumread is still Glyph with the Zaixl slot in second place. My biggest town read is still J because I've seen a lot of scumhunting intent, he's responded well to all pressure, and I haven't seen any bad intent from him.

Spak
I find it odd that you took the time to call out my post and say "If you weren't confirmed town you'd be lynched". That seems like a weird comment to take the time to dedicate a post to.

It just came to my mind because of Maven's slip in Kingmaker, even though he was town. I also wanted to point out that we don't know how many scum there are and that it's dangerous to assume a number, but I can see why you would think it's odd I framed the statement that way.

 

[Raziek]

I never voted Glyph once Raziek.

"I agree with the latter aspect of the post (re: people defaulting back on Glyph), but I think this reads kind of like deflecting any affiliation with the wagon. That said I can't remember if you were even voting on it, so maybe there's not even affiliation to deflect here."

I didn't say you did, but I can see how my wording could be misunderstood. 'the wagon' is referencing the Maven wagon, not the Glyph one.

 

[#HBC | J]

Raziek

Regarding Moosy, he is a slot that I find to be genuine in a lot of his posts. I do not agree with quite a bit of his reads, but that is because everyone seems to be viewing this game very differently. Can't fault someone for that or everyone would be scum-reading everyone (oh wait...). I think Moosy is actively trying to find scum in his own way and although I don't agree, I appreciate and respect the motivation he has and no one has pointed out the malintent of Moosy. I find the push from RR to be weak and also to not show me why he is scum and in turn helped me see him more as a towny slot over a scummy slot. I would lynch RR over Moosy at this point definitely, but Moosy is someone I am keeping my eye on. Bottom line though, Moosy is far from a viable lynch option to me for toDay and someone I wouldn't consider toDay baring some intense revelations.

I'll also say I disagree with your read on Alex and he is definitely someone that has my eyebrow raised at currently after yesterDay's actions. I'd consider him in my pile of top 5 lynch choices for toDay. You are the only player here that I would say would be able to help me develop this read more so let's discuss him a bit we hen you have the chance.

Keep being Razzle Dazzle though and don't Razzle Fizzle out. If you disappear, I will be on you.

 

[Raziek]

Raziek

Regarding Moosy, he is a slot that I find to be genuine in a lot of his posts. I do not agree with quite a bit of his reads, but that is because everyone seems to be viewing this game very differently. Can't fault someone for that or everyone would be scum-reading everyone (oh wait...). I think Moosy is actively trying to find scum in his own way and although I don't agree, I appreciate and respect the motivation he has and no one has pointed out the malintent of Moosy. I find the push from RR to be weak and also to not show me why he is scum and in turn helped me see him more as a towny slot over a scummy slot. I would lynch RR over Moosy at this point definitely, but Moosy is someone I am keeping my eye on. Bottom line though, Moosy is far from a viable lynch option to me for toDay and someone I wouldn't consider toDay baring some intense revelations.

I'll also say I disagree with your read on Alex and he is definitely someone that has my eyebrow raised at currently after yesterDay's actions. I'd consider him in my pile of top 5 lynch choices for toDay. You are the only player here that I would say would be able to help me develop this read more so let's discuss him a bit we hen you have the chance.

Keep being Razzle Dazzle though and don't Razzle Fizzle out. If you disappear, I will be on you.

What in your opinion is the main difference between Ruy's scum and Town play?

As for discussing Alex, I'm down. Where do you want to start?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Pulling some strings how?

Alex isn't a puppetmaster, he's far more direct than that. I have been strongly agreeing with most of his pushes and he has asked a lot of questions I feel are effective and deliberate. His most recent interaction with Spak in particular just SCREAMED TvT at me. Did you see any scum intent in Alex getting Spak to re-examine his read on Fanny? What does he have to gain by doing so?

Part of my read is meta, but I feel like I am generally pretty good at feeling when Alex is scum. His scum play is manufactured. Alex is aggressive as either alignment, but the key distinction I often spot is in noting when he asks good questions, rather than when he is just threadbullying.

Italicized - Anyone can do that. I feel you're playing a bias and trying to buddy with Laundry for no particular reason because you know that it's really easy to be on the side of someone who will talk for you. I don't get why you, or anyone for that matter *cough* moosy *cough* think that general agreement is now the surefire towntell. FML has been asking a ton of questions, J has been asking a ton of questions, hell, even I have been asking a ton of questions. Are those questions just not up to the townie laundry standard? Do you get how that logic is bull and why I won't accept it? Do I need to make another question to accentuate how many questions I can make?

I can understand leading into meta but it's not useful and I need you to take a step back and asses if Laundry is just playing you for a fool right now. And uh. I see it as laundry playing judge, jury and executioner. I don't see how you can say he's not threadbullying when all he's done really is exactly that. I gave it a pass because of meta too but I'm thinking different given how things have changed and the information at hand. Explain to me how he wasn't thread bullying earlier.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

"I agree with the latter aspect of the post (re: people defaulting back on Glyph), but I think this reads kind of like deflecting any affiliation with the wagon. That said I can't remember if you were even voting on it, so maybe there's not even affiliation to deflect here."

I didn't say you did, but I can see how my wording could be misunderstood. 'the wagon' is referencing the Maven wagon, not the Glyph one.

I'm not deflecting. Read my post to mallo. I am no less of a bad player than anyone else who voted Maven, but that doesn't mean that there couldn't be scum on there. Do you really think that all town was voting Maven? Do you? That's rhetorical given that you think I'm scum with your vote unassumingly so I don't see how I'm worse for wanting to bring attention to possible scum being there.

 

[Fandangox]

Ok, so here's somebody I'd actually like to hear more from:

Vote: FullMetalLynch

Seriously, who do you think is scum? I keep trying to follow your thought process this game, and all I can find is over the top responses to whatever recent snippet scores the highest on the surface level "gross ****" meter. You're in the bottom third of people voting, despite being the in the top third of people posting, and I don't feel like anybody has come under any serious pressure from you.

Day 2 needs fresh wagons for the votal gods, and this is a slot that hasn't gotten nearly enough scrutiny.

(@Soup , this doesn't mean you're off the hook, but your content yesterDay after you calmed down, and early toDay gave me enough pause to merit a reread while I explore some other options. Please vote as soon as you get to that computer though)

This sort of my problem with your slot, the reasoning you use on your pushes is so weird. "You're in the bottom third of people voting, despite being the in the top third of people posting" I don't even know what's your point here. What other reasons are you voting FML for? Can you elaborate on your vote?

 

[#HBC | J]

What in your opinion is the main difference between Ruy's scum and Town play?

As for discussing Alex, I'm down. Where do you want to start?

For Alex, I wanna start with the why he was more hot and bother over Bardull yesterDay, but decided to lynch Maven instead. That is something that I am scratching my head over. It seemed his vote was on Maven, but all of his posts were directed at Bardull. I also have disliked how he has had soup at arm's distance moreso than me because whereas I was doing it for more OoG reasons, he seemed to be doing it for in-game reasons which don't make sense.

Meta schmeta, but Ryu is someone that makes it to end-game every game for some reason and I can't quite put my finger onto why. Ryu as scum is much more coasty, yet abrasive whereas as town he is more gentler and analytical. This game is weird because he has been on both sides of the spectrum. The one thing I can remember about his slot though is his Moosy push and I dislike that greatly because Moosy does not ring as scummy to me. I'm waiting for him to come in toDay and do what he does next to evaluate my read on him, but I was liking him in the end till he forced my vote onto Maven with Alex.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Fixing this so it's readable:

Then he wants to put some shade on anybody that consolidated onto Maven at the end. Except that he's one of them: #988 ? Not only is he one of them, but he's actually the person that made Maven the majority wagon at the time of his post. Like, spot #5 isn't /quite/ as bad as spot #4, but he did the whole "abstain, will vote either easy wagon later" thing earlier in the day that I voted him for.

You caught me. I voted Maven trying to prevent a NL and solely thinking that Laundry's points were decent. String me up right now and forget about all the other people who might have possibly done the same thing. When I said 'hey we should be focusing on that maven lynch there could be scum' I was merely looking for an avenue of discussion. I'm going to continue to vote no one because I don't jump when you say me do and I hope it makes you angry.

And then, forget all this focus on the Maven wagon, Soup wants you to also suspect the people on the Glyph wagon, pulling focus from the one thing he's yelling about people pulling focus from already.

Read this line back to me and tell me if it makes sense to you:

"I, Mallory, realize that my reasoning to suspect someone who is merely curious about events he/she does not know about, is not scummy unless given context. I will try to give context for things next time instead of trying to paint people in a bad light, for I wish to be a good townie."

'm pretty sure you're gonna tell me I'm deflecting but there's a beautiful thing called burden of proof. Tell me my scum intention to try and get people to open up about these wagons, or tell me how I'm scum when I made something out of it and said that I don't think all Glyph voters are town. These are things that I've been getting to as you can see in the thread.

 

[Fandangox]

I'm not deflecting. Read my post to mallo. I am no less of a bad player than anyone else who voted Maven, but that doesn't mean that there couldn't be scum on there. Do you really think that all town was voting Maven? Do you? That's rhetorical given that you think I'm scum with your vote unassumingly so I don't see how I'm worse for wanting to bring attention to possible scum being there.

Who do you think on the wagon is scum, and for what reasons? You keep mentioning "there's scum on the wagon" but don't really elaborate further, and want everyone else to discuss first. Who do you think is scum in the wagon, and why? You mention we should reconsider Landry, but you also haven't done a good job elaborating how do you think he is scum on the flip.

 

[Raziek]

Italicized - Anyone can do that. I feel you're playing a bias and trying to buddy with Laundry for no particular reason because you know that it's really easy to be on the side of someone who will talk for you. I don't get why you, or anyone for that matter *cough* moosy *cough* think that general agreement is now the surefire towntell. FML has been asking a ton of questions, J has been asking a ton of questions, hell, even I have been asking a ton of questions. Are those questions just not up to the townie laundry standard? Do you get how that logic is bull and why I won't accept it? Do I need to make another question to accentuate how many questions I can make?

I can understand leading into meta but it's not useful and I need you to take a step back and ***** if Laundry is just playing you for a fool right now. And uh. I see it as laundry playing judge, jury and executioner. I don't see how you can say he's not threadbullying when all he's done really is exactly that. I gave it a pass because of meta too but I'm thinking different given how things have changed and the information at hand. Explain to me how he wasn't thread bullying earlier.

?

You've played with me enough times that you should know this is common in how I obtain reads. I frequently zero in on someone whose opinions align with my own and use that as a sounding board to figure out if my own opinions have dissonance in certain scenarios. If Alex said something I wasn't on board with, that would be grounds for me to examine the read in more detail.

When I say 'good questions', I specifically mean questions I MYSELF would ask. Things that I notice and then Alex points it out before I can. You're being obtuse. Him asking things I would ask helps me see that he is thinking from a perspective similar to mine.

Like I said before, Alex is aggressive as either alignment, you have to mine his posts for when he's actually pushing directions, not just yelling at people.

"I'm thinking different given how things have changed and the information at hand"

So, you're clearly alluding to earlier when you mentioned you were looking at the two of us. Presumably, given how you're treating the two of us, you're leaning more towards Alex. Is there still anything to gain from beating around the bush here? Do you have relevant information that should be shared?

 

[Raziek]

For Alex, I wanna start with the why he was more hot and bother over Bardull yesterDay, but decided to lynch Maven instead. That is something that I am scratching my head over. It seemed his vote was on Maven, but all of his posts were directed at Bardull. I also have disliked how he has had soup at arm's distance moreso than me because whereas I was doing it for more OoG reasons, he seemed to be doing it for in-game reasons which don't make sense.

Meta schmeta, but Ryu is someone that makes it to end-game every game for some reason and I can't quite put my finger onto why. Ryu as scum is much more coasty, yet abrasive whereas as town he is more gentler and analytical. This game is weird because he has been on both sides of the spectrum. The one thing I can remember about his slot though is his Moosy push and I dislike that greatly because Moosy does not ring as scummy to me. I'm waiting for him to come in toDay and do what he does next to evaluate my read on him, but I was liking him in the end till he forced my vote onto Maven with Alex.

Re: Ruy, I saw his rapid-fire posting looking to be pretty Town. I freely admit this is mostly meta, but he does actually seem to be trying to do things. Part of this was also the fact that at the time I too was looking at Moosy.

I don't think him asking you to vote Maven was out of line, given that I remember him saying there was only 2 hours till deadline at the time and a number of others (including Moosy himself) had stated that they did not plan to move their votes.

Let me go back and look at Alex's posts. I do remember him having a spurt on Bardull, but I also know he was the main one pushing Maven, so that didn't feel like, 'instead' to me. Will investigate.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Who do you think on the wagon is scum, and for what reasons? You keep mentioning "there's scum on the wagon" but don't really elaborate further, and want everyone else to discuss first. Who do you think is scum in the wagon, and why? You mention we should reconsider Landry, but you also haven't done a good job elaborating how do you think he is scum on the flip.

I think he's interesting. That sounds like bull**** but it's true. He's someone I am keeping my eye on and going to be gauging based on his next move and his responses. As regards for the wagon - I'm in the process of figuring it out, and I just wanted to bring up an avenue of discussion like I said to mallo. Do you agree with my points made on Mallo and how do you feel about Raz/Laundry?

?

You've played with me enough times that you should know this is common in how I obtain reads. I frequently zero in on someone whose opinions align with my own and use that as a sounding board to figure out if my own opinions have dissonance in certain scenarios. If Alex said something I wasn't on board with, that would be grounds for me to examine the read in more detail.

When I say 'good questions', I specifically mean questions I MYSELF would ask. Things that I notice and then Alex points it out before I can. You're being obtuse. Him asking things I would ask helps me see that he is thinking from a perspective similar to mine.

Like I said before, Alex is aggressive as either alignment, you have to mine his posts for when he's actually pushing directions, not just yelling at people.

"I'm thinking different given how things have changed and the information at hand"

So, you're clearly alluding to earlier when you mentioned you were looking at the two of us. Presumably, given how you're treating the two of us, you're leaning more towards Alex. Is there still anything to gain from beating around the bush here? Do you have relevant information that should be shared?

That's..not really acceptable to me. I'm gonna claim I'm gonna do things because I do them but work with me here and try to get away from 'you should accept how I play and if you don't you're wrong!!' That being said, is there any opinions of his that you disagree with?

That's again really weird for me and I don't know how you expect to be successful if you just parrot and buddy someone from the start. Again - what if Alex is deceiving you? What then?

Yes there is. I wouldn't be an ass and make a big deal out of what happened if I didn't have something to follow-up with. I won't share it now because I am not in liberty and the only reason I'm bringing it up again is because I might as well leave paper trails because I ****ed up and made myself obvious thinking I could just confirm scum right now.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

EBWOP: Right now being the start of toDay.