Official Battlefield of the Gods - Pit / Dark Pit Matchup Discussion *Corrin, Samus, Shulk*

[Koiba]

What stages would we pick and ban against these 3 chars?

 

[xfateful]

xfateful , you're the real angel here~ ;3

Nah but for reals, thanks for sharing that! I've been trying to find good footage of Earth. Watching him beat Rain of all people is a thing of beauty indeed!

The commentators' reaction when Earth got that grab at the end - magic~

Incidentally, this isn't strictly relevant to the Sheik matchup, but it's a good example of Earth's skill - Earth vs Komokiri. The man is godly.

Aww, thanks!

And no problem, I really like the Japanese smash scene and follow it once in a while so it's really nothing. That youtube channel is paradise for seeing what goes on in Japan's smash scene.

What stages would we pick and ban against these 3 chars?

For Pikachu, I would definitely ban Dreamland. He can Quick Attack Cancel on random places on the ground of that stage. Meanwhile, where to go... I would probably go to Battlefield because it's a pretty good Pit stage. I'm not too familiar with what other stages besides Dreamland is good for Pikachu though.

For ZSS, stages like Halberd and Delfino are a nightmare to face her on. But it seems like the tournament rule set is moving away Halberd and Delfino. Therefore... I would ban Town and City or maybe Battlefield because she can carry you to the top pretty easily with those platforms. Keep in mind Town and City also has a pretty low ceiling. As for where to take her, probably Final Destination or Smashville.

As for Sheik, I'm not too sure what to ban. Smashville is a pretty good stage for Sheik so I wouldn't go there of my own will but I don't know about banning. For which stage I would go on, I think Lylat can mitigate Sheik's needle-camping but Lylat is a pretty volatile stage. It kind of depends on whether or not you think Lylat will screw you over with the tilting. Therefore, I would either go Battlefield, which is a pretty good stage for Sheik as well as Pit, or Final Destination. But with Final Destination, there is nowhere to go if Sheik begins to needle-camp. So I probably not go there if I am fighting against a Sheik that will needle-camp quite a bit.

 

[Koiba]

For Pikachu, I would definitely ban Dreamland. He can Quick Attack Cancel on random places on the ground of that stage. Meanwhile, where to go... I would probably go to Battlefield because it's a pretty good Pit stage. I'm not too familiar with what other stages besides Dreamland is good for Pikachu though.

Practically anything that has a Battlefield-like layout is good for Pika

Smashville is his worst stage for QAC, Town and City has a weird layout for QAC, and FD doesn't have any platforms at all but gives Pika space for tjolts and thunders without platforms there to mess him up

 

[xfateful]

Practically anything that has a Battlefield-like layout is good for Pika

Smashville is his worst stage for QAC, Town and City has a weird layout for QAC, and FD doesn't have any platforms at all but gives Pika space for tjolts and thunders without platforms there to mess him up

I see. Okay then, a little revision; for Battlefield, the advantage Pikachu gets for cancelling on the platforms is essentially the same as the advantage Pit gets for having good moves to platform pressure. Therefore, Battlefield is a pretty good stage for both of them. Meanwhile, Smashville and Town and City are pretty neutral towards both characters. I would probably not go to Final Destination for what you said. So... Battlefield, Smashville, or Town and City are all pretty okay choices to go to.

 

[Wintropy]

Time to wrap up this round of discussion and move onto the next few characters, I reckon~

So based on the feedback we've received, I think it's fair to say the matchup spread for these characters is something in the vein of:

±0

-2

-1​

Your friendly neighbourhood Koiba is working on compiling the data we've received for the above three characters. They will be added to the OP very shortly.

N.B. If you have something to contribute to any of the above matchups, feel free to do so, even if it isn't the main topic of discussion!

In the meantime, I think it's time to move onto the next few characters on our divine itinerary! Based on feedback from the angelic host, the matchups to discuss will be:

ROSALINA AND LUMA

DIDDY KONG

CAPTAIN FALCON​

Now technically nobody voted for Captain Falcon, but I think it's an important matchup to discuss in the current metagame; and considering we've had a brief back-and-forth about him recently in the social thread, I think it'd be good to get discussion going!

BEGIN DISCUSSION!​

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Against Rosalina, there are some differences with how Pit and Dark Pit are able to handle her, most notably in the Luma containment department.

Upperdash Arm's knockback is vertical, so it's not that effective for taking out the Luma quickly, but it does have its strengths on Rosalina herself, since she's a floaty fighter, and vulnerable to star KOs.

Electroshock Arm's knockback is more horizontal, so it's much more effective for taking out the Luma, but not as effective against Rosalina, since her horizontal recovery is quite long.

The last time Rosalina analyzed Pit and Dark Pit, against Pit, Rosalina had a small advantage, while against Dark Pit, it was even. The outcome didn't change all that much with customs.

Basically, Dark Pit can handle Rosalina better, simply because he can contain the Luma more easily than Pit.

 

[CHOMPY]

Guys, whenever you finish a character discussion matchup, please include a summary about the matchup under the "summary" tab, which is located under the "Spoiler: Matchup Discussion". That way, members won't have to scroll through the pages and everything can be all on the front page under the OP.

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Thank you

 

[S0RBET]

i know some of these characters. I can contribute now!

Ok so against falcon i think Pit has a slight advantage at least. Falcon's recovery is easier to punish than most characters and is vulnerable to gimps and spikes. Also his large body and rush down play style make him eat Nairs all day.

Also Pit's floatiness makes it easier to escape Falcon's combos which is tough for the falcon player to deal with. Our jab is also great at stopping falcon in his tracks and downsmash is great when he thinks he has a punish.

Falcon has to go full throttle at all times and we have the tools to stop him but we also have the tools to change the pace and put the pressure on him instead and he doesn't have many options to reset back to neutral.

i would put this at least at a +1 for us


as for diddy kong, i think it's about even.

 

[miniada]

I secondary falcon I think it's 55:45/ both characters combo each other decently but falcon combos better than pit. And pit will have trouble killing so his combos feed falcon rage. Both edgeguard each other but imo falcon does it better since pit can't do anything during his up b.

 

[Wintropy]

Guys, whenever you finish a character discussion matchup, please include a summary about the matchup under the "summary" tab, which is located under the "Spoiler: Matchup Discussion". That way, members won't have to scroll through the pages and everything can be all on the front page under the OP.

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Thank you

We're working on it. ;3

Spoiler: Sheik

Spoiler: Pros and Cons

Pros:

- Rage helps us a bit in the MU

- We can beat out some of Shiek's important tools such as our fair beating out her fair and bouncing fish if spaced correctly. Pit's short-hop arrows and dash attack also counters her needles fairly well

- She's a fast faller so falls into our combos fairly well

- Our multiple jumps can get out of dthrow combos fairly easily

~~~~~~~

Cons:

- She got better frame data overall

- Fairly hard to edge-guard

- She can stuff our recovery fairly well

Spoiler: Stages

Pick:

Lylat Cruise - Can mess up needles, depending if the opponent is needle happy

Battlefield - A neutral stage for both of them

~~~~~~~

Ban:

Smashville - It's a good stage for Shiek

FD - If the Shiek is VERY needle campy it's a very bad situation because you have nowhere to run ESPECIALLY if your Dark Pit.

Spoiler: Strategy

Rage is your best friend in this MU, making the angel's kill options kill just a bit earlier.

Although she has the frame data we got the disjoints. We can beat her fair and bouncing fish, 2 important tools to Shiek, with our fair if spaced correctly. The angels dash attack stuff her needles fairly well. Pit's aerial arrows beat her needles in frame data and the fact that the needles travel horizontally so it puts her in a awkward position. You can keep barraging her with them until Shiek decides to approach.

She's a fast faller so she falls into our combos more effectively.

The Upperdash is a bit more effective than Electroshock mostly because Upperdash gives better killing potential at times with rage. And the 60 degree that Electroshock gives isn't too friendly since she's hard to edgeguard with her recovery giving her a hitbox AND disappearing. Her fair and bair don't have too much cooldown so she might end up chasing YOU instead of the other way around. You don't want to be predictable with your recovery so try mixing up your angles maybe with a side b in there too. Although the angels are one of the characters that can attempt to end her stock offstage due to their jumps

The neutral is your best friend and your top priority when your out of it to get back in it. Nair can be a way to get back in it if your in a pinch because it's frame 4, their fastest aerial. Don't go spam happy with the air dodges and press buttons for the sake of pressing buttons. Your opponent will catch on and they'll have the psychological advantage. Our multiple jumps can get out of dthrow a bit more easier than others but be careful of follow ups. Her frame data still beats ours so don't get too cocky.

Spoiler: Vids

Spoiler: Zero Suit Samus

Spoiler: Pros and Cons

Pros:

- We've got pretty comparable frame data, and can challenge her aerials
- Fairly good at edge guarding each other
- She falls pretty fast so combos pretty well

~~~~~~~~

Cons:

- She has a better punish game than us in the neutral and we can't really make up for it
- She's got 2 disjoints, 2 spikes and 2 emergency moves to get her back in the neutral and a move that opens up almost everything for her.
- If you don't analyse her movements she will read you with paralyzer, dsmash or boost kick, ending the game and possibly the set

Spoiler: Stages

Pick:

Smashville - A fairly neutral stage. The platform is always moving so it can be good or bad for us.

FD - Another neutral stage. With no platforms to help either of us too.

~~~~~~~
Ban:

Halberd - Uair combos kill very early because of the low ceiling. And although Upperdash does too it isn't really worth the trade

Delfino - Same reason as Halberd. Even though it's more strict with the low ceiling part it's got a bit more platforms to work with.

Town and City - Has a low ceiling

Battlefield - She can carry you to the top of the stage with uairs because of the platform layout. This means you'll get farther away from neutral and that's isn't good.

Spoiler: Strategy

ZSS is a character that is very psychological at times. If you don't stop and analyse her movements you will get bopped. Her tools in the neutral need to be used effectively at the right moments, you can't just spam them. We have to see how each player uses ZSS tolls and plan ahead. ZSS has better punish options than the angels and they don't really win enough to make up for it unfortunately. Learn how flip kick works, remember if you airdodge when she's close she'll do the kick which has a lot of lag. This can help you get back into neutral or pressure ZSS more. Our frame data is pretty comparable and she's fall fairly fast so she can get combo'd pretty easily.

Paralyzer is a great option for ZSS as it gives the angels a bit less options to work with. You can roll away or sidestep but then she has a chance to punish you with a grab, jump and hit her with your aerials and see what she does, or get hit.

She has 2 stunning moves: dsmash and paralyzer so if you get hit your going to pay for it. Especially if you at kill percent's for her boost kick. Boost kick is a great punish/oos option. Be patient and punish accordingly. Remember she got side b and zair for disjoints.

The angels are in a good weight range for uair combos which is never good, try using your multiple jumps and airdodges accordingly. We challenge her aerials which isn't to common for a ZSS player to see. Her aerials make it hard to gimp her at times. She can also challenge our recovery with her flip kick and spike us. But if Pit hits her with an arrow while using her tether it could easily be the end of the stock but her tether is fairly fast so you need really good reactions. They're both pretty good at edge guarding each other.

ZSS has alot of options when in her advantage state. Dthrow literally opens up everything for her and it can be difficult to reset back to neutral. If she does get out of neutral she can reset quickly with a nair or in emergencies with a dair.

Her grab's first active frame is frame 69. If she misses it we got over a second to punish her. Just remember that our disjoints will NOT beat the whip at maximum extension.

Spoiler: Vids

Spoiler: Pikachu

Spoiler: Pros and Cons

Pros:
- We've got the disjoints
- We can challenge him offstage because of our multiple jumps

Cons:
- Our recovery can get bopped
- Pikachu has a move that can reset him back to neutral from any situation

Spoiler: Stages

Pick:

Battlefield - Netural

Smashville - Pikachu can't QAC as effectively

Town and City - Pikachu can't QAC as effectively

~~~~~

Ban:

Dreamland/Miiverse/Lylat Cruise - QAC's

FD - Pikachu may lose the platforms but has alot of space to do all his other stuff

Spoiler: Strategy

Pikachu is a very tricky character to work with, having a projectile that can be a approach option, a move that can reset him back to neutral very easily, and his bair is a great ledge trump.

Be patient, don't go in right away, Pikachu will most likely wall you out with fair and his tilts. Pikachu doesn't get too much from grabs other than stage control, up throw to thunder or uair chains from dthrow. Neutral is very important here. If Pikachu pushes you out of it he'll keep pressuring you offstage, where he's great at. Although he has slightly better frame data than us we've got the disjoints in our moves.

Tjolt is tricky, Pikachu can trail behind it to get followups and can be fired from shorthops and fullhops so Pikachu can have an effective approach. Our nair can beat it and Pit can always use fullhop arrows but you can't outcamp a Pikachu because of the way the projectile travels. Your best bet might be to power shield it and see what happens.

Quick Attack. One of Pikachu's best moves that can reset him back to neutral in a jiffy. If we try to block it on the ground with obitars it'll be pointless because we get more endlag out of it. If we do it in the air and a Pikachu decides to charge through it (which will probably not happen because they can angle around it) it will stop the Quick attack. When offstage you can do a fast fall fair to cover as much as you can or if you have a good idea where they're going you can spike them with our disjointed dair.

Pikachu's moveset revolves around pressuring. If he out pressures you it's a bad situation since our recovery is somewhat predictable and doesn't have a hitbox so we're bair food for Pikachu. You can try to challenge Pikachu offstage so you can get back safely.

Spoiler: Vids

Credit to Koiba for the matchup summaries!

 

[S0RBET]

I secondary falcon I think it's 55:45/ both characters combo each other decently but falcon combos better than pit. And pit will have trouble killing so his combos feed falcon rage. Both edgeguard each other but imo falcon does it better since pit can't do anything during his up b.

Why do you think pit has trouble killing? F-smash, Up-smash, hair, and side-B along with off stage aggressiveness would do the trick imo.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqRMbhEccuI

matchup footage helps inform (though we should consider how much more skill Nairo has over Acid as a player in this match)

 

[NotEvenAmatueR]

Welp, time to start over.

 

[NotEvenAmatueR]

Never mind, guys, please resume discussion. While I currently don't have the time to discuss matchups, I'll post my ratios here. (Will add more later)

(55/45)
(50/50)
(45/55)
(50/50, 55/45 (either or))

Once again, I will discuss my desicions later.

 

[Douglas Jay Ganon]

Hm. I think this goes 55:45 in Falcon's favour. He can go in without that much problems, but he stills strugles against that nair oos.
Pit is (pls no offense) one of my favourite punchbags with Falcon, because of his height and his weight. Also, Pit can't really space that much with fair, because Falcon is really fast, and his bairs are deadly and fast. The most effective space tool I have seen is the bair, but a perfet shield will get through.

The edge guard game favours Pit, but not that much really. Of course, he has that deadly dair and the arrows, but I wouldn't rely that much on arrows. Unless you cut his second jump, Falcon should be able to recover. Use that moment to get the dair or the fair.

But don't get cocky. If you're off stage, don't you ever do the up b, cause you will get punished hard. Like really really hard. Like you better know to tech. Or swear that he hadn't calculated the timing to meteor you. To recover safely, try a medium-close distance with side b. But be careful with the Heel of Shame.

In conclusion. Is a really cool matchup, as an spectator and as a player. Captain Falcon in really fast and strong, and Pit has the edgeguard and the combos.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

(50:50)(55:45)
(55:45)(50:50)
(50:50)(50:50)

 

[Sonicninja115]

I'm not going to be one of those nice know-it-alls that comes in and tells you that you guys are all wrong because you don't play my character.
The Diddy/Pit MU is probably either 40/60 or 35/65.

Pit is ably to gimp Diddy kong pretty easily and most of Pit's moves arre relatively saafe making it hard for diddy to approach with Fairs and MFK/Banana. Diddy kong has some pluses in this MU, like Pit's recovery isn't the best for Mix-ups and I am pretty sure Diddy has an easier time netting kills. But I think that the pits might be too safe for Diddy kong to win in this MU and with arrows, I am fairly certain Pit wins this MU.

I don't know Pit all that well, so if I got some Info wrong then just disregard that info, it's just my opinion.

 

[S0RBET]

(50:50)(55:45)
(55:45)(50:50)
(50:50)(55:45)

why do you give dark pit an advantage over diddy and not to pit?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

why do you give dark pit an advantage over diddy and not to pit?

Didn't even noticed that I did it

 

[S0RBET]

alright so i just competed in a couple weekly tournaments in northeast Tennessee I only lost against another Pit player and against Rosalina. This is the first time i faced Rosalina and i got rocked so i would love some discussion about this matchup <3

 

[Pazx]

IMO Pit vs Diddy isn't strongly in either character's favour but the relative (compared to the rest of the cast) ease with which Pit can gimp Diddy probably tips it slightly towards his favour. When he can, Diddy will choose to recover high and I don't really think there's a huge amount which Pit can do about it, best thing to do is just try and force him off again and harass him with arrows. If he's forced to up-b horizontally arrows are good, if he's below ledge dropping down with a lingering aerial is better. I think Diddy probably has a slight advantage onstage (faster everything + fair + dtilt + significantly better grab followups) so it's not a blowout by any means, but Diddy suffers a little.

alright so i just competed in a couple weekly tournaments in northeast Tennessee I only lost against another Pit player and against Rosalina. This is the first time i faced Rosalina and i got rocked so i would love some discussion about this matchup <3

Pick Dark Pit instead of Pit (unless you're on Halberd... but why wouldn't you ban Halberd?) and use side special to get rid of Luma (don't do it when you're above 110ish % because you can die to usmash OoS).

 

[NotEvenAmatueR]

Never mind, guys, please resume discussion. While I currently don't have the time to discuss matchups, I'll post my ratios here. (Will add more later)

(55/45)
(50/50)
(45/55)
(50/50, 55/45 (either or))

Once again, I will discuss my desicions later.

Regarding the Diddy Matchup:
The reason I believe it to be in Pit's favor is because Pit has a ton of good anti-airs. Up-smash in particular is a great move to keep Diddy Kong in a disadvantageous state. While gaurdian orbitars are basically useless in this matchup, it doesn't really matter, because Pit can play around the bannana easily. Pit can make it hard for Diddy to get in because of f-tilt and d-tilt in particular. Smashville is a great stage for the matchup, especially if Pit camps under the platform.

 

[Koiba]

Yay Rosa talk~

So just some stuff to wonder about~


- How to abuse Rosa's height and floatiness?

- Best ways to kill Luma?

- What to do when Luma's gone and how to maximize that 11ish seconds?


The best angles to kill Luma is 50-60ish degree angles

If Luma manages to pop up instead of sideways you can go pop him with a fair

Some good options are:


Dash attack - 60 degrees

Dtilt - 55 degrees

1st hit of dsmash - 55 degrees

2nd hit of dsmash - 30 degrees

Bair - 46 degrees (sourspot) 66 degrees (sweetspot) (someone please correct me if I'm wrong)

Electroshock Arm - 50 degrees


Just remember that cooldown of these moves and use them accordingly~


I think that Electroshock can kill Luma more easier while Upperdash can give Rosa more trouble

And sometimes when you do Electroshock you'll hit Luma in front of her and that extends the hit frame duration which allows Rosa to get hit as well

 

[GP2]

On topic: I'm a / main and I'm familiar with the matchup. The points about electroshock vs upperdash were good points that I had not considered before thank you for that. Also pit's arrows can also have an advantage over dark pits because you can angle pit's around to hit rosa while dark pits will more often then not be shielded by luma. Granted rosa can shield/absorb the arrows anyway but you can get a few hits on rosa with pit if she screws up while with dark pit you can sometimes get the hit on luma even if rosa is trying to stop your arrows. I think that whether or not dark pit or pit has the slight advantage depends on your approach to dealing with rosa. If your strategy is to body luma first to get it out of the way then dark pit is a better choice but if you want to take a more balanced approach and damage both rosa and luma then you might want to choose pit. Either way I think the match up is even 50/50 for both pit and dark pit.

Off topic: I don't know if this has already been discussed but can we please discuss the - matchup next because I believe the matchup is 55/45 in favor of . Hear me out this is not a joke. A good / player playing another / player will know what the other player's options are and because of that either player can initiate options to claim and keep hold of stage control and if you can get the other player into the corner of the stage, electro shock arm can kill earlier than most of /'s other options

 

[ReRaze]

Off topic: I don't know if this has already been discussed but can we please discuss the - matchup next because I believe the matchup is 55/45 in favor of . Hear me out this is not a joke. A good / player playing another / player will know what the other player's options are and because of that either player can initiate options to claim and keep hold of stage control and if you can get the other player into the corner of the stage, electro shock arm can kill earlier than most of /'s other options

You gotta look at it from Pit's perspective too . With Pit's arrows he can outcamp Dark Pit and thus force him to approach. When playing against someone who knows your character inside out, all your approach options and exactly how you can be punished this can be a very difficult task. When you're the one forcing someone to move you dictate the flow of the match effectively controlling the neutral stage so regardless that the electroshock arm kills earlier near the ledge you may not be able to use it there. On the other hand Pit's upperdash arm is handy anywhere and kills really early on platforms too (and high up is where most of pit's moves send people), especially because Pit is a floaty and as such will die earlier than fast fallers to vertical knocback. Also pit's ftilt > dark pit's

On the Rosa MU I really don't get why people say Dark Pit is better because the electroshock can hit luma offstage while the upperdash can't. Why would you use the electroshock to get rid of luma when you have a plethora of other safe disjoints to do it such as pit's tipper ftilt, oh and the added hitlag from luma + new shield mechanics makes most of pit/dpits moves even safer on block. With luma not ever staying dead for long, it's not worth eating all those hard punishes. Also Rosa is a floatie as well as being extremely light so she dies very early to the upperdash arm. Needing to get someone to the ledge for a kill limits your kill option with the electroshock arm, upperdash arm is arguably better for killing Rosalina here. Although......the electroshock arm may be better in one aspect in where if you do misread and hit Rosalina on shield, you may get punished but at least you will most likely hit luma so at least you get something out of it.

Also LancerStaff you mentioned earlier about how electric moves we're alot safer on shield....how would this apply to the electroshock hitting luma and Rosa's shield with luma extending hitlag + the new shield mechanics.

 

[LancerStaff]

Thought I said Electroshock isn't any safer on shield then Upperdash due to some hitstun modifier stuff... I know the hitbox will be active for a ridiculous amount of time, but against Rosalina's shield and Luma together I don't exactly know what happens. I imagine she takes the normal amount of stun though, and it'd mean it's much more punishable then if it hit a shield.

 

[GP2]

You gotta look at it from Pit's perspective too . With Pit's arrows he can outcamp Dark Pit and thus force him to approach. When playing against someone who knows your character inside out, all your approach options and exactly how you can be punished this can be a very difficult task. When you're the one forcing someone to move you dictate the flow of the match effectively controlling the neutral stage so regardless that the electroshock arm kills earlier near the ledge you may not be able to use it there. On the other hand Pit's upperdash arm is handy anywhere and kills really early on platforms too (and high up is where most of pit's moves send people), especially because Pit is a floaty and as such will die earlier than fast fallers to vertical knocback. Also pit's ftilt > dark pit's

.

I guess it's mostly a player thing. I know a few other pit mains some of which can consistently beat me in the pit ditto but when I switch to dark pit I tend to have better luck. IDK I'm also the type of player that forces their opponent on to the ledge a lot so maybe it's just me.

 

[Mr. ShinyUmbreon]

(55:45)(50:50)

How is dark pit not as good an option against falcon over pit? If I don't think f-tilt is incredibly useful in this matchup, and with how fast he is, I don't use arrows all that much, Electoschock can be nice for knocking falcon offstage, and with a bad recovery, he's not make it back, especially with how good pit/dark pit is at edgegaurding. I think this matchup is 55:45 for both Pit and Dark Pit.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I don't use arrows all that much

That's one of the things you just answered for yourself

 

[James Mesa]

Yo guys. I'm here from the Yoshi boards and we have a lack of discussion on Pit/Pitoo. Could any of you mind sharing some info on the MU? I have a hard time managing to get in and netting the kill. I have a hard time with dealing with their low % combos.

 

[Sneak Sneaks]

What about Pit vs. Mario? Thats a really hard matchup for me

 

[NotEvenAmatueR]

What about Pit vs. Mario? Thats a really hard matchup for me

I usually opt to ditto in that matchup. Mario wins pretty hard, so I'm kind of forced to play my own Mario instead.

 

[Sneak Sneaks]

I usually opt to ditto in that matchup. Mario wins pretty hard, so I'm kind of forced to play my own Mario instead.

Well that screw things up for me since I am a Megaman main and a Pit secondary

 

[GP2]

What about Pit vs. Mario? Thats a really hard matchup for me

I'd say the matchup is 60:40 in favor of . He has a superior combo game, smash attacks and reflector as well as having a projectile game like pit. My strategy is to make use of our one advantage which is Mario's lack of range. Utilize nair and fair a lot and just stay on top of your mental game. Using arrows sparringly can work as an effective mix up as well.

 

[miniada]

I uses to think mario was an even mu. However after playing the mu mire and talking to other players I'm convinced its.
/60:40
in no way does mario out combo pit. Pit is floaty and has an easy time escaping combos he also has netural air to help him out. Mario has a hard time escaping pit(s) combos due to his middle weight and the disjointed hitboxes on pits aerials. Pit has better kill power and has more range than Mario. When it comes to edgeguarding that's what gets annoying for mario to deal with. Pit can pressure him towards the stage and get him of stage with f throw and bthrow which he can also use as kill moves. Pit has a better recovery than mario so he goes of stage easier. He can edgeguard him with arrow (not sure if caping them is all that helpful) Down b obituars and aerials which adds on to his better recovery.
I used to think both characters have no significant advantage over each other guess I was wrong.

 

[Sneak Sneaks]

I uses to think mario was an even mu. However after playing the mu mire and talking to other players I'm convinced its.
/60:40
in no way does mario out combo pit. Pit is floaty and has an easy time escaping combos he also has netural air to help him out. Mario has a hard time escaping pit(s) combos due to his middle weight and the disjointed hitboxes on pits aerials. Pit has better kill power and has more range than Mario. When it comes to edgeguarding that's what gets annoying for mario to deal with. Pit can pressure him towards the stage and get him of stage with f throw and bthrow which he can also use as kill moves. Pit has a better recovery than mario so he goes of stage easier. He can edgeguard him with arrow (not sure if caping them is all that helpful) Down b obituars and aerials which adds on to his better recovery.
I used to think both characters have no significant advantage over each other guess I was wrong.

Dude I know Pit is great but his recorvery isnt better than Mario's and how can Pit have better kill power than Mario?

 

[miniada]

Dude I know Pit is great but his recorvery isnt better than Mario's and how can Pit have better kill power than Mario?

I worded it wrongly. Pit has an easier time landing the kill since he can can pressure mario towards the stage and capatalize off of it with f throw and bair I've heard he can use dthrow as a kill set up as well.

 

[GP2]

I uses to think mario was an even mu. However after playing the mu mire and talking to other players I'm convinced its.
/60:40
in no way does mario out combo pit. Pit is floaty and has an easy time escaping combos he also has netural air to help him out. Mario has a hard time escaping pit(s) combos due to his middle weight and the disjointed hitboxes on pits aerials. Pit has better kill power and has more range than Mario. When it comes to edgeguarding that's what gets annoying for mario to deal with. Pit can pressure him towards the stage and get him of stage with f throw and bthrow which he can also use as kill moves. Pit has a better recovery than mario so he goes of stage easier. He can edgeguard him with arrow (not sure if caping them is all that helpful) Down b obituars and aerials which adds on to his better recovery.
I used to think both characters have no significant advantage over each other guess I was wrong.

I think you make good points however I would like to point out that Pit's smash attacks have significantly more end lag than mario's making them easy to punish. Pit's arrows also have lag which mario can punish. As a pit main I have never used my down b to recover. I guess you could use it to prevent edge guards but the orbitars also have lag so it makes it inefficient especially because you can't block attacks coming form above and below. Mario also has more reliable combo mix ups than pit. Down throw to up b is equivalent to pit's down throw to up smash with pit's probably doing more damage but mario's being more reliable combo at higher percentage. However, at low percents, mario can use down throw into multiple up tilts or up tilt into up air, down throw into up smash, down throw into nair or down throw into up air which have all been pretty reliable in my experiences in the matchup. Pit has down throw into nair, fair, or up air but down throw to up air is the only super reliable one with nair and fair being character and DI dependent. However, as you said, pit can easily break out of all of mario's combos with a simple nair due to the disjointed hit box. This last bit isn't too helpful to mario but if a mario can read a side b from pit, mario's dash attack can beat it out because the two hit boxes don't interact so pit can't get his super armor. I have had a lot of experience in the /- matchup lately because I'm training with a main and I would like to retract my original statemen as I now believe the matchup is 50-50.

 

[Attila_]

I came in curious for some mu ratios; y'all overrate this character hugely.

Even with rosa, Mario, sheik and diddy?

If this were true, Pit would be winning tourneys everywhere.

 

[Rucent]

The Sonic Match Up Thread is currently discussing Sonic vs Pit/Pitoo! We would love it if you gave us your input on the match up!

http://smashboards.com/threads/soni...5-pit-s-toon-link.390575/page-9#post-20389755

Thank you! :D

 

[Mr. ShinyUmbreon]

I came in curious for some mu ratios; y'all overrate this character hugely.

Even with rosa, Mario, sheik and diddy?

If this were true, Pit would be winning tourneys everywhere.

depends on how you rate this character, I think Pit is either at the top of mid-tier or the bottom of high-tier. Yoshi is pretty high on the tier list, and he doesn't win major tourneys (at least in America) Kirby has a really good matchup against Sheik, so how doesn't Kirby win tournaments? Smash 4 is still a young meta, it's only about a year old. there are plenty of good characters that don't win tourneys.