Applied Directional Influence Thread

Chesstiger2612 · May 27, 2014

This thread is thought to collect information on how to DI/SDI which moves to

avoid followups

if not possible, show the DI which requires a read or at least the most precise execution

survive kill moves (if its not obvious)

Its best if information is given on multiple cases, for example fastfallers and floaties or high%s and low %s. If it makes a great difference to get a specific angle it would help to make the search for the best DI more detailed but in most cases the 8 direction system (up, up&away, away, etc.) should be enough.
One main focus should be the DI on grabs + throws because in those cases not as many variables weigh in and more precise information can be given.
If you think a certain DI is best but are not completely sure it will probably be added with an "(unsure)" afterwards if it is reasonable.
The category "unpredictable throw" is for the case you haven't enough time to react to a certain throw but have to deal with DI traps and make a decision based on read. It can also deal with the topic how effective mashing is in a certain situation.
This thread is also thought to have discussions whether a certain DI is better or worse.
If a SDI is recommended the practicalness should also be included. It should be dependent on (amount of inputs you have to do/frames of hitlag) normally, altough there are exceptions because it can be easier to input one SDI in a little number of frames than multiple in more frames... Nonetheless, the less inputs you need the more practical it is...

*Currently building up*
*Collecting first information*:
Grabs & Throws, in alphabetical order of characters
*Open for requests*

Bowser:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:
Smash DI: Away after the first hit

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:
Floaties: DI up
Fastfaller: DI in

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:
Default DI: Back-throw DI
Mashing: Good option, Bowsers throws are slow so you are fast enough to DI still.

Forward throw:
Survival DI: Up + slightly away

Up throw:
→shfair (on DI away, low percents), fjnair (on DI in, low percents), ←fjfair (on DI down+in, low percents)
Jump out: Bowser has (hitstun-16) frames to follow up, hitstun is at least 33 frames and frameperfect sh fair frame 16 so frameperfect sh fair will hit you until you are high enough to not get hit by it. You should make your DI dependent on your stage position and where you want to end up unless you are floatie.
Combo DI:
Floaty: DI in, then jump out
Mid: At lower percents you can't escape, later DI in.
Fastfallers: You can't escape until high percents, then DI down and away

Down throw:
Combo DI: Away/Down+away -> techroll away afterwards if you fall down from it

Back throw:
Survival DI: Up + slightly in

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Captain Falcon:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:
Low height: Down away
Midair, after CF already burnt a jump: DI up+in

Forward Air:

Up Air:
DI in

Down Air:
DI mixups + tech mixups
If grounded: DI up+in

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Charizard:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:
DI down+away

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:
Crouchcancel if possible
DI in at low %s
DI away at high %s

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:
Forward and back-throw are quick enough to cause forced read-based options.
DI for back throw at lower %s and DI up at KO percents. You can react to up-throw and down-throw on reaction.

Forward throw:

Up throw:
Survival DI: No DI/Diagonal+away on average weight/fallspeed
More upwards for fastfallers, more sideways for floaties

Down throw:
Always knocks down, so choose a tech-type option

Back throw:
Floaties: Down+in and jump out
Average fallspeed: Lower %s: Down+in and tech-in-place/tech-roll away Higher %s: Up+in
Fastfallers: DI in (+up/down) with tech-type option

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:
Survival against star KO: DI away+slightly down

Down special:

Diddy Kong:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:
If grounded: DI away+slightly down

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Donkey Kong:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Falco:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:
DI up+away mostly

Down throw:
Knocks down, mixup tech options

Back throw:
DI in

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:
DI away

Fox:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:
Survival DI: Away + slightly down

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:
Survival DI to not get hit by the second hit: SDI up and/or in the opposite direction Fox is facing

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:
To avoid up-air: DI in, and SDI up and/or in the opposite direction Fox is facing

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:
For Mario, Marth, Ice Climebers, Ness, Luigi: DI down+away
For Bowser, Samus, Sheik, Zelda, Peach, Link, Captain Falcon, Ganondorf, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, King Dedede, Lucario, Wario, Charizard, ROB, Snake, Olimar, Ike: DI mixups, mostly away though
For Fox, Falco, Kirby, Pikachu, Mewtwo, Jiggypuff, Roy, Toon Link, Game and Watch, Meta Knight, Pit, Lucas, Sonic, Zero Suit Samus, Ivysaur, Diddy Kong, Wolf, Squirtle: Mixup DI sideways + tech options or DI down

Game & Watch:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Ganondorf:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Ice Climbers:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Ike:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Ivysaur:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Jigglypuff:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

King Dedede:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Kirby:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Link:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Lucario:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Lucas:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Luigi:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Marth:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Meta Knight:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Mewtwo:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Ness:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Olimar:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Peach:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Pikachu:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Pit:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:
SDI to the nearest side (mostly away)
Survival DI away and slightly down

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:
Recovery issues/Offstage: DI up+slightly in
No recovery issue: DI down+away
Offstage but good recovery: DI up+away
Survival DI: Up+in

Up Air:
Lower percents: DI down+away
Higher percents: DI in

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

R.O.B:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Roy:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Samus:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Sheik:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:
DI up+away + SDI away, jump out

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:
DI trap between down-throw and back-throw. At low percent DI down+away because back-throw will mostly lead to dash attack which is crouchcancelable then

Forward throw:

Up throw:
Jump out

Down throw:
DI down+away

Back throw:
DI in

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Snake:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:
Inner hitbox: SDI in to avoid 2nd hit
Outer hitbox: SDI out to avoid 2nd hit

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Sonic:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Squirtle:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:
Survival DI: Away+slightly down

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:
Crouchcancel if possible

Up special:

Down special:

Toon Link:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Wario:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:
Wario's possible followups: DACUS, dash attack, grab (fastfallers; low %s), platform techchase (other)
Combo DI: Down -> tech (guess the direction)

Charged forward throw:
Survival DI

Up throw:
Wario's possible followups:
Up-smash, regrab (fastfallers; low %s: critical choice), up-air (average fallspeed; low-mid %s - fastfallers; mid %s)
Combo DI:
DI mixups + platform techs if possible. Jump out ASAP.

Down throw:
Wario's possible followups:
techchase->side-b, fsmash, bair, waft (fastfallers; high %s), side-b (average fallspeed; mid-high %s: critical choice), dsmash, dacus, regrab, resets (average fallspeed; low-mid %s)
Combo DI:
Tech (fastfallers; low percent)
Up->jump out (floaties; high percent)
Up+slightly away or in-> jump out (floaties; low-mid percents)
Up (average fallspeed; mid-high percents)

Back throw:
Survival DI (high percent)
DI that maximizes your recovery options, mostly upwards (low-mid %s)

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Wolf:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:
Crouchcancel at low %s
Down+away otherwise

Yoshi:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Zelda:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:

Up special:

Down special:

Zero Suit Samus:

Grounded non-smash

Jab:

Forward tilt:

Up tilt:

Down tilt:

Dash attack:

Smash

Up Smash:

Forward Smash:

Down Smash:

Aerial:

Neutral Air:

Forward Air:

Up Air:

Down Air:

Back Air:

Grabgame

Unpredictable throw:

Forward throw:

Up throw:

Down throw:

Back throw:

Specials:

Neutral special:

Side special:
Low percents: DI away
High percents: DI in

Up special:

Down special:

Contributed so far: 0RLy, Chesstiger2612

Chesstiger2612 · May 27, 2014

Reserved post.

0RLY · May 28, 2014

If I were you, I would start by formatting a tree of nested spoilers. At the top level you want every character. In each character, you will list all their attacks. In each attack, you should list the needed DI information vs. the 3 weight classes and maybe character specific stuff. Then people can start contributing info for each character.

Chesstiger2612 · May 28, 2014

I will do so it is probably needed because some attacks just need one DI information while others have many different cases.

Player -0 · May 28, 2014

Suggestion - You may want to have the names of the characters and the picture of them on top of the spoiler. It makes it a lot more convenient rather than just seeing a wall of spoilers. I think there's a way to get those instead of the word spoiler too.

Phan7om · May 28, 2014

I see lots of potential for this thread, keep up the good work, hope it gets stickied!

Chesstiger2612 · May 28, 2014

Player -0 said:
Suggestion - You may want to have the names of the characters and the picture of them on top of the spoiler. It makes it a lot more convenient rather than just seeing a wall of spoilers. I think there's a way to get those instead of the word spoiler too.

Now I have the character spoiler after the character's name, same for moves...

Is the structure of the moves good? I first wanted to ask before I copy it 40 times and change it then again...

Another question would be if we want to go through moves/characters in a structured way or just wait for contributions. I think its best if I make it dependent on the amount of feedback. Also there are probably moves that should be focused on more because DI really makes a difference while other moves don't even combo with bad DI or similar...

Either way, have no internet access now for a few days but will then continue.

xXSciophobiaXx · May 28, 2014

This seems like a highly applicable thread, I hope it gets to the status that it should. Is the easiest place to start with all of the chain grab, mixup, tech chase throws? I think that characters like c. falcon, metaknight, marth etc. and other characters of similar style would be a good place to start with DI discussion of their throws.

EDIT: definitely Ganon too.

Chesstiger2612 · Jun 1, 2014

Yes throws are easiest to discuss. In most cases, there is just one best DI for a throw, or it is dependant on percentahe/weight/fallspeed, but even then its still simple most of the time. The more difficult cases apply if you don't have the time DIing after being thrown because of a quicker animation. For that case I have the category "Grab" besides throws in the moveset prototype at the beginning of the wall of spoilers. Keep in mind you only need a mix/read-based strategy for those throws being quicker than reaction time because otherwise you can still change your DI. For the remaining cases, one could calculate a Nash equilibrium to determine which probability you should give which option approximately to get fhe best results in average.
Non-grab-type moves are more difficult to handle because
- the positioning can be different
- multiple hitboxes can cause different knockback angles
This means for grabs it should be possible to collect data with much more precision and give more detailed advice while for non-grab-types you have to weigh in different factors in the specific case.

Chesstiger2612 · Jun 2, 2014

I will go with the current prototype and start collecting some information, first on grabs & throws, characters sorted alphabetically. If you are doing so too please tell so nothing is done by multiple people (except for the case if you want to correct sth. or go more detailed into sth.) which would waste time

0RLY · Jun 3, 2014

I guess I can start.
A = fast faller - I dunno, maybe like DK/Diddy and up?
B = mid weight - I dunno, guess Mario and up maybe?
C = floaty - All else
1 = low % - 0-40% give or take
2 = mid % - 41-80% give or take
3 = high % - 81%+ give or take
No number = all %
If unlisted, I will never use this option.
A2, B1 are similar. Same with B2 and C1.

I will also list my follow ups so you can prepare to DI the next move as well.

Wario

Fthrow (uncharged)
A1 - I will be looking for dacus or a failed dacus (dash attack or grab?) after this. DI down and tech.
B1, A2 - I will be looking for a tech chase. If you can make it to a platform, avoid it. The ground offers more tech options.

Fthrow (charged)
All - Use survival DI.

Uthrow
A1 - I will be looking for usmash or regrab in open space. If you have a platform to tech on, do it. Otherwise this is guaranteed.
B1, A2 - I will be looking for a uair juggle. Look for a platform to get close to and tech on. Feel free to mix up as I will want to use that same platform to extend my juggle.
B2 - If you can double jump out, do it. I will be looking to try to uair you right as you use it, and even if I miss I can still shadow you and catch you before you land. If you have a high priority aerial, you can force me to withdraw.

Bthrow
A - I'm looking to gimp you with either fair or nair. You should mix up your recovery.
All - I'm just trying to put you offstage. Maybe to give my partner some space in doubles or to use you as a bat. Recover as needed.

Dthrow
A1, A2 - I don't do this, but if I do by accident just tech.
A3 - I'm looking for a tech chase, usually in a confined space by the ledge or on a platform. I may follow through with side-b, fsmash, bair, waft, whatever ends your stock. If you end up not on the ground, like in the air from going past the ledge/platform, DI down. I can't fall fast enough to reach you.
B1, B2 - I'm looking for a reset opportunity. Not always a tech chase. It could be dsmash, dacus, regrab.
B2, B3 - I'm almost always looking for side-b. Most of the time it's unescapable from my experiences. I would suggest DI up so it at least forces me to jump and maybe get the weaker side-b. Air side-b is set damage but grounded scales up as I travel. It depends on distance. If you're large you might be able to tech.
C1, C2 - You get a lot of control over where you want to be. Up or down. If up, I'll follow through with aerials. If down, I'll look for dacus or a failed dacus (damn that 1 frame of precision)
C3 - You might be able to DI up and jump away from my side-b. Maybe not. Definitely don't DI down, the side-b will hurt more.

ThreeSided · Jun 3, 2014

Yeeaaah, as good of an idea this is in theory, it's just way too complicated to be done on a general scale on all characters. As was said, grabs, yeah, for sure. But everything else? I think a thread like this would be better done on a character-by-character basis. Even then it's going to be a comprehensive thread talking about each individual matchup.

That being said, I still think its a good idea. Just something you'd probably want to bring to character boards. There's just way too many things to consider for each character. Matchup, the move, the specific hitbox, weight, fall speed and %. Not to mention that half the time you're not going to be discussing a single superior DI and rather a mixup situation with different options whose uses will depend on the character and matchup. Bring it to your character board and I think people will feel far less intimidated and much more likely to contribute. Honestly, knowing exactly how to DI in every realistic situation is enticing, and sounds like a good project to me. I'd certainly read it and contribute whatever I could off hand.

Chesstiger2612 · Jun 3, 2014

@

ThreeSided
This thread will focus on the more realistic situations that occur in real matches. Grabs have priority first and also moves mainly used as combo starters. That will decrease the amount of work needed heavily. Also it is mostly about combo DI and some characters only have 3 moves leading to followups so...
We will not discuss the best combo DI for the Falcon Punch, so to speak.

@

0RLY
Thanks for the contribution, I will edit the post now. It also makes sense to sort after a combined variable because mid % midweights always seems so similar to low % floaties etc. Maybe sth. like "flight distance" summing fallspeed, weight and percentage up in most cases?

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