Amiibo vs Amiibo (good training vs OP equipment [as is, equipment won]) *tips wanted*

[JAZZ_]

Hello everyone,

I have an amiibo match with my friend tonight at 6:30 PST and Im worried that it'll lose.

My amiibo is Samus LVL 50
stats:
+126 attack
+3 defense
-6 speed
Abilities include:
first strike 10 seconds of invincibility
improved dodging
desperate immortal (7 sec of invincibility at 100%)
Ive trained mine by hand, often pitting it against me and my smash partner in a 2v1 team match (different friend)

However my friend leveled his amiibo fighting nothing but multiple lvl 9's
he has Zelda LVL 50
Stats: unknown
Abilities: unknown
he has had his wii u much longer so he has a variety of rare badges that i do not posses

this is an odd nature vs nurture battle and i want to believe pitting mine against a human gave it an edge a cpu trained one does not have

however I still have 5 hours to train it, any tips?

 

[Raijinken]

They adjust their AI based on move success, but are ultimately still just stat-buffed AIs. Thus, training yours specifically against Zelda AIs may be the best way to give it an edge. You also may want to consider overriding Desperate Immortal, since Zelda has a number of moves that can kill below 100 in the right circumstances.

 

[JAZZ_]

They adjust their AI based on move success, but are ultimately still just stat-buffed AIs. Thus, training yours specifically against Zelda AIs may be the best way to give it an edge. You also may want to consider overriding Desperate Immortal, since Zelda has a number of moves that can kill below 100 in the right circumstances.

Good idea, anything you feel would be a good ability to equip then?

 

[Raijinken]

Not really sure, as I haven't done much with Amiibos or equipment in general, but maybe flinch protector.

 

[JAZZ_]

Not really sure, as I haven't done much with Amiibos or equipment in general, but maybe flinch protector.

I do have a no flincher smash badge, allow smash attacks not to be interrupted by normal attacks.

 

[JAZZ_]

I do enjoy my amiibo
although I wish samus wasnt the only one at gamestop worth getting
wouldve loved to have a marth amiibo

 

[Raijinken]

I do enjoy my amiibo
although I wish samus wasnt the only one at gamestop worth getting
wouldve loved to have a marth amiibo

They say they're making more Marths in the future, so there's still hope.

(Also, try not to double post, use the Edit button instead. It's located next to the timestamp for your post).

 

[JAZZ_]

They say they're making more Marths in the future, so there's still hope.

(Also, try not to double post, use the Edit button instead. It's located next to the timestamp for your post).

ok understood
right now i have my Samus in a 99 stock 1v1 match against a lvl 9 zelda
set it up and let them fight while I work, that should help my chances right?

 

[Raijinken]

ok understood
right now i have my Samus in a 99 stock 1v1 match against a lvl 9 zelda
set it up and let them fight while I work, that should help my chances right?

In theory, yes. I'm no expert on Amiibo AI learning, but as they learn against players' styles and accuracies, and against different characters, with/without items, etc, it seems most likely that it should help.

 

[JAZZ_]

In theory, yes. I'm no expert on Amiibo AI learning, but as they learn against players' styles and accuracies, and against different characters, with/without items, etc, it seems most likely that it should help.

well that sucked,
my friend is such a cheater. because he trained it against groups of lvl 9's his amiibo was flighty, used only side b (dins fire) and b (that reflector move) and not much else. to insure that his amiibo would win he gave it super rare equipment
auto healing, ko heal, and perfect shield exploding,
my amiibo fought extremely agressive, and out classed his in its move variety, agility, and hit percentage, but could not do much against a shield block that exploded and added 35% damage each block. each time that amiibo blocked it was last second being that it left itself open by using its only ranged attack and could only JUST barely get off his attack
the incibility badges mine had on werent a factor at all.

I shouldve know thathe'd do that. my friend prefers to op his mains with ridiculous abilities rather than focus on execution and skill. and his amiibo reflected that lame quality and then some. its interesting though, i observed my amiibo fight his and mine each fight got smarter and smarter, where as his learned nothing because it ultimately won each match. which helped me understand the way it learns, and why training it only against comp's is bad.

if you lvl an amiibo up with comp's it'll beat you most probably but not that badly, as stated by my friend before he added its abilities. where as mine mopped the floor with me. when an amiibo loses it recognizes that its playstyle failed and adapts more and more, if you cant beat it you cant unteach it bad habits. for instance his amiibo used side b too much, i used little mac to bum rush his zelda while she did that and i got easy pop shots on her. but with the stats he gave it i couldnt make much progress before i slipped up and she one shot me off the stage. so she still has that bad habit.

mine however has very little bad habit and is a pain trying to fend of or attack.

still OP equipment ended up winning which really urks me.
any thoughts on how to combat that build of his?
btw his zelda's stats are
attack:100
defense:70
speed:-35

 

[Raijinken]

Sounds like he set up an excellent turtle, which will unfortunately make it rather hard for Samus to deal with. Since high-level CPUs perfect shield almost without fail, exploding PS is very strong. I'll have to do some thinking on this one, but it may be worth copying his use of Exploding Perfect Shield.

 

[JAZZ_]

Sounds like he set up an excellent turtle, which will unfortunately make it rather hard for Samus to deal with. Since high-level CPU's perfect shield almost without fail, exploding PS is very strong. I'll have to do some thinking on this one, but it may be worth copying his use of Exploding Perfect Shield.

when i got home i added that perfect shield explosion with a perfect shield assist. the auto heal is another annoying thing and a rare equipment piece to get. so for now i added vampire strikes which occasionally heals you when you strike your foe. I might also pit my samus against more aggressive characters like mac or someone that'll force samus to use the shield more, that way she wont need the assist and i can plug in something else.

even with his mods though samus did impress me on how well she adapted after the first fight, she was able to keep fighting at close quarters for minutes at 200%. which leads me to believe if you stripped both of their equipment samus would past her

 

[Kornaki]

I'm not convinced you need a perfect shield assist, since the amiibo are so good at perfect shielding anyway. If you notice it missing explosions though you should keep it on.

Your assessment about the amiibo needing to lose, or at least not comfortably win, is correct.

As far as training, you probably want to expose your amiibo to a lot of reflectors, and a lot of ranged attacks, to get it used to the idea of approaching. Fox, Zelda and Mario would be a good combination of characters. I only recommend not sticking solely with Zelda because you don't want your amiibo to get overtrained against one character.

You might also consider some custom moves that are appropriate for the matchup. Maybe give your samus shotgun blast if she's using his neutral B too much and getting reflected. I'm not too familiar with the customs available.

 

[JAZZ_]

I'm not convinced you need a perfect shield assist, since the amiibo are so good at perfect shielding anyway. If you notice it missing explosions though you should keep it on.

Your assessment about the amiibo needing to lose, or at least not comfortably win, is correct.

As far as training, you probably want to expose your amiibo to a lot of reflectors, and a lot of ranged attacks, to get it used to the idea of approaching. Fox, Zelda and Mario would be a good combination of characters. I only recommend not sticking solely with Zelda because you don't want your amiibo to get overtrained against one character.

You might also consider some custom moves that are appropriate for the matchup. Maybe give your samus shotgun blast if she's using his neutral B too much and getting reflected. I'm not too familiar with the customs available.

My Samus plays very much like me, she uses a volley of missiles, each different speeds before an approach, saving a full charge shot for an opportunistic easy shot. She also loves to grapple chain and air combo after she's done yanking you around with that laser beam. And once she's close she uses her side tilt, side smash, down tilt... Actually she uses a variety of moves until she gets you launched.
I do love your idea of putting a fox against her.
As is right now she's still hyper aggressive and hard to hit, and after replacing easy shield with auto heal, I can't do much to stop her. Which is good,
I also bought a Kirby and pikachu to train her even further, after of course I train them. Kirby somehow is more aggressive than Samus, and at LVL 45 it kills me horrifically bad if I'm trying to out Kirby it.

It has been fun playing and training these amiibos, and yea, I've read all the threads saying they don't learn and stuff like that. After hand training them I have to say they do learn a lot, and it adds one more interesting aspect to a game that already has so much to do on its own.
Though they removed the Pokemon trainer, with these amiibos I feel like I've become poke trainer reincarnated

 

[Kornaki]

Haha I know they're a lot of fun, I love training my amiibo also. I like the idea of training it in a 2v1, I've been doing them in teams against each other (2v2 or my 2v2v2 level 9sv2 leve 9s) because on 1v1 they don't really get enough exposure to close combat (against each other, they just wait for the other person to approach because they learned that works against me, and against me, well, I just said it works against me).

 

[HeavyMetalSonic]

My Pikachu was a absolute b***h to beat... Not gonna lie. I taught it to perfect shield as much as I could and used the following build...

- Attack: As high as possible.
- Defence: As high as possible.
- Speed doesn't matter and it's hard to get all 3 stats high, but that doesn't matter because...
- Ability 1: Explosive Perfect Shield (Pairing this with the training I'd given it, it would pretty much block everything perfectly, adding 30% per hit, I remember one match it did it 3 times in a row adding a whopping 90% to me.)
- Ability 2: KO Healing (I chose this over Auto heal and Vampire heal because my Pikachu didn't have to hit me much to kill me and usually didn't due to perfect shield working all the time, and KO heal heals a fair chunk of it's percentage anyway. Auto heal would also work pretty well but I didn't have it at the time)
- Ability 3: Increased running speed (This makes up for the - in speed. Essentially having two max stats and a neutral stat which doesn't really effect it. Don't bother with better dodging or easier perfect shield, being CPU they'll get the timing right themselves 99.9% of the time. Shield counter isn't required either as the opponent will get knocked miles away by the insane knockback off explosive shield).
Specials: Whatever you feel like, but I like keep quick attack on it as I taught it to apply a bit of pressure using it.I also kept thunder as it would use it just before getting grabbed if it didn't dodge them. This way even if Pikachu got grabbed, the thunder would still hit.

Now I'm decent with Pikachu (I use the same character to train it after playing with it for a while, that way I won't teach it bad habits), but I must have spent an hour trying to beat it only to beat it once, and even then it was SUPER close and I almost died a lot of times. Training an amiibo gets it so far, but the stats and abilities they get makes them RIDICULOUS to beat. If anyone is interested I could make a Youtube video showing off the video where I beat it. My friend tried and got 3 stocked. He tried with him and his lvl 50 Samus amiibo and it got them both down to one stock before dying.

 

[UltimateXsniper]

Your friend has the op equipment on zelda amiibo?

My Luigi amiibo is similar with healing and explosive sheilding as well as lifesteal. The being said, my 2 mario amiibos. Bidizzle and Fire Mario (This amiibo was customed painted) was able to defeat Luigi. I give them equal training at this point meaning I play 1v1s most of the time. Bidizzle only has stat boost but nothing too big and no special stats like Lugy has. Fire Mario has no stat boost whatsoever. Being fairly new to the amiibo family, this amiibo hasn't won a 1v2 3 stock lvl 9 cpus yet while Bidizzle and Lugy has. However Fire Mario and Bidizzle won a 2v4 3 stock lvl 9 cpu recently as well as Lugy joining in on a 3v5 and won as well.

This is to help give you an idea how powerful the 3 are. Now, Lugy has the OP stats on, but Bidizzle can still win 50% of the time. Fire Mario being my latest amiibo, won after the 2nd match against Lugy and remember that Fire Mario has no stat boost at all. The other 6 amiibos I own are pretty good as well, all are level 50, but not as good as my top 3.

I can say that your amiibo can definitely still win with the right amount of training.