Data All Aircraft Report! - Fox MU Discussion Thread

[DavemanCozy]

So yeah... with this patch, some things have changed.

Obviously the matches where jab lock would nullify characters completely have been made less branded.

But it's more so the way our confirms are gone that have me worried. I'm wondering on how we should move on. We've briefly discussed tons of match ups already (more than half, some in greater detail, some in very few words, but that's not the point) and I would like to know what you guys think.

And sorry for not posting again in a while Been a busy month, but I'm gonna clean up this thread a bit.

For now, I'm going to move on to the next mus, gonna do the next mus that were on schedule waaaaay back. Sorry guys again, I really owe you a big apology here, but I'm back and I'm not gonna bugger off again like that without first saying something next time.

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I can comment on Princess Petch, imo the mu is in Fox's favour. She has a tough time doing much of anything as long as Fox respects her walling moves (n-air, fading f-airs, float move -> one of her tilts or f/d-smash, etc). Lasers are good at distance to force her to approach, and since Peach is slow this means you can keep control well against her.
The annoying thing about fighting Peach has always been how light and how floaty she is, a combination that makes her pretty much impossible to combo and means you might only be stringing 2 moves on her at most. I'm pretty sure that due to this though, N-air -> jc U-smash is pretty reliable on her on earlier than usual percents as she goes into tumble at around ~80% (she has to air-dodge to avoid it since her double jump would dip her low and she wouldn't escape it), same goes for U-tilt -> U-air/B-air or Dash Attack -> U-air/B-air.

Scariest part about the MU is being offstage. Generally is a scary thing with Fox, but with Peach you really should be scared because of all her unique movement options; veggies, floating offstage, N-air intercepts, etc.

 

[Nu~]

I feel that this matchup is okay. Camp behind trampoline and play like you would against Mario. Bair fox away if he tries to come over the trampoline, and use the hydrant to tank lasers. Fortunately, fox can't kill you with a throw, is combo meat, and dies very early. If he gets in, his attacks are generally faster, but your utilt beats any aerial approach he uses. We can also gimp fox well offstage with oranges and nair.

This matchup is certainly not free though. He will smash your face in if he gets too many hit confirms. We can combo him back, but his combos are generally more reliable (without including our fruit trap combos that take time to set up)
Fox's uair beats hydrants from the air and he can reflect them back up at us. This makes it so that pac has to be more liberal about using hydrants in disadvantage.

I'll just post my analysis from the pacman thread here.

 

[Splebel]

I don't know who has the advantage in the Pacman vs. Fox matchup but Fox does better at close range than Pacman but Pacman can keep Fox out relatively well. In the long game Fox does better as well because our fruits aren't particularly fast and easy to see coming at long range so he can reflect them and the hydrant. His lasers can hit us easily if we aren't hiding behind the hydrant. However no matter how hard Fox tries his lasers won't kill so he would need to approach. He doesn't need to if you want a long and slow/boring game though. He can win by laser damage.

Also never try launching the hydrant with lasers. It doesn't work, no matter how many you pump into it.

This may seem like it's in Fox's favor but Pacman can easily gimp Fox offstage and has many tricks to get around Fox's moves.

 

[adlp]

i main peach and fox and honestly i prefer being peach in the MU lol

might still be in fox's favor though. Crow is a peach player who has a lot of knowledge and ive written some things down about what he says

* peach can't combo fox reliably after 65%-70%+
* peach wants you offstage and will go for the gimp (ez nairs ez life)
* peach generally wants to stay aggressive and wont rely on turnips because they are unsafe to pull most of the time

 

[Rhus]

So one of my friends plays Pac-Man pretty well, but I rarely use my Fox against him, but I'll try to give some input from what I can from what I remember.

As with most matchups, Fox tends to win the ranged game due to his burst mobility, lasers, and a reliable reflector. Pac has a pretty slow dash and bad acceleration, so it seems to be pretty hard to punish us hard for throwing out a reflector when you guys are at a reasonable distance.

Pac's main advantages here are obviously the same advantages most characters have on Fox, he gimps him off stage fairly easily, but Pac can't get too cheeky with his fruit because again, our Reflector is a thing and it's a very strong defense for Fox off stage against projectile gimpers like Pac. Fox is still fairly free off stage for Pac and Fox can't really do much to retaliate when Pac is off stage. The only key thing to note about Fox having Pac off stage is that you guys have to be careful using the trampoline, because we are the fastest falling character in the game and can easily take it from you, not that you should ever need the last bounce as our edgeguarding is pretty poor.

Pac can also set up traps to limit Fox's strongest asset, his mobility. He has a slew of frame traps that he can execute and stuff Fox's approaches. This is pretty key in that it makes Fox's disadvantage state a lot worse between the fruits, hydrants and Pac himself getting in Fox's way. It makes it a lot harder for us to escape and run away, which is normally one of Fox's greatest strengths.

For our end, we can run circles around Pac. We are much faster, we can react faster, and our Fox trot outruns all fruit except the key...I think (Galaxian maybe not?). Fox's reflector discourages any poking Pac does with his fruits, and it's pretty scary to try to kill Fox with the Key when a Reflected one is pretty frightening. Once Fox closes on Pac, he has a hard time keeping up with Fox's shield pressure. Uair beats dropped hydrants and autocancelled Bairs break the hydrant faster than any option Pac has, making it pretty dangerous overall to try when Fox is close. Our kill confirms like Dair>Usmash, Nair>Usmash, and tip jab2>Usmash all work fine on Pac and will be killing at about 100. Tip Jab2>Footstool>falling Dair>Pivot Ftilt>Usmash is a true combo and will kill Pac at 90, but of course it's idealistic (I land this somewhat consistently because I've played around with it a lot, but it's hard to get perfectly).

The speed at which Fox moves makes your grab very, very risky and only really viable when you are punishing a smash attack of his. Conversely, Fox gets pretty much nothing but damage off a grab, so while Pac can sit in shield at kill percents, Uthrow and Dthrow can both lead to mixups and kills with Uairs and tomahawk>bait air dodge>Usmash. Pac's floaty physics make this particularly dangerous for him, as Fox's landing coverage is pretty bonkers.

Matchup felt kind of poor for us initially but after learning to play it patiently, generous use of our beloved hexagon and exploiting his physics, I'm tempted to say it's visibly in our favour, but not by a significant margin. 55:45 Fox McCloud.

 

[MiniSmasher]

I'm a Peach main and honestly think the MU might be slightly in Peach's favour. If not it's even. Fox may have lasers to force an approach, but this is a MU that Peach generally wants to be quite aggressive in anyway. It's relatively easy for Peach to combo Fox since he's a fast faller and the disjoints/range on our aerials (dair, fair and uair) generally mean you can't interrupt with a nair too easily. She can rack up a lot of percent on you if you're not careful and she can generally space him out at a range where Fox can't laser, while stopping his approach with float-cancelled aerials if he does approach.

That being said, there's a lot of things that Fox can punish. Turnips being the main one, which does take away an approach option since we don't want to eat lasers during the pull-up. While Peach can't be combo'd that easily due to her floatiness and lightweight, it's easy for you to juggle her since she has a hard time landing and Fox can outpace her slow air speed. Peach also has to not overuse floated dairs since we could eat an up-smash if poorly spaced.

I think a big factor in the MU is the offstage game. If Peach gets Fox offstage at even mid-percents, it could mean a stock. Fox struggles off-stage normally but it's where Peach shines since she has so many options that can lead to early kills off the side and turnip and nair gimps, while float gives Peach the time in the air to pressure off-stage and force a punishable option. Apart from Foxes up-smash, I think Peach has a much easier time taking a stock in this MU. It's so easy for Peach to interrupt Foxes recovery with dair, nair, fair, turnips or even Toad.

So maybe a 55:45 or 50:50. There's not a huge advantage either way since both characters have the tools to deal with each other.

 

[Skarfelt]

I've probably played high level Fox-Peach more than like anyone on the planet with @EOE so I'll give my thoughts.

Neutral
Pew pew! Lasers are extremely good in this matchup. Peach has a very safe neutral but, in layman's terms, she's slow. She can't punish lasers as well as most characters if you're across the stage. That said, do not just camp her out or something because Peach's punish game on Fox is extremely strong but I'll get to that later. In the neutral, establishing stage control is very important because her grabs and damn near every aerial get you off-stage where things become bad. SH Bair is extremely good in this matchup - Peach lacks the range to punish it if you space it properly. You can fox trot around with RAR Bairs and PP lasers for days and Peach can't really punish it until you make a mistake - that said, it's not invincible by any means. Peach should be trying to powershield your options, force your shields and get stage control herself. The problem in this MU is that Fox's hits regularly don't convert into huge damage, let alone stocks. Peach, on the other hand, converts Dairs, grabs and so on into bigger damage and, most importantly, getting you offstage. Essentially, Fox wins neutral if you play carefully but when you lose neutral... oh man.


Losing Neutral and the Off-Stage game
When you get hit by moves at low %, just accept your damage. Peach should not be dropping her combos, especially on stages like Battlefield. When she finishes combos with Fair, FThrow or w/e else, DI to try and reset to neutral as fast as possible - up if you can land on platforms, down if you want to just immediately try and Side B to ledge and get back on-stage. When you get off-stage, simply put, there is no excuse for Peach not to kill you if she plays correctly. She can just hover at the ledge and Nair, chuck turnips for days. She has an option to cover every single one Fox's options so we have to rely on a lot of mixups. Fast falls, Side Bs onto stage instead of the ledge, Up Bs riding up the wall and so on. Realistically, not every Peach is perfect and will kill you every time but it is hard. I feel like as the game develops, people will get better at edgeguarding Fox and we don't really have enough mixup options.

SO. Don't just blindly survival DI every time. Peach isn't going to kill you early off the side unless it's with a rage-induced Fair or something. Her combos all have well communicated finishers so you can SDI and DI to make sure she can't convert a small advantage into something way bigger.

Winning Neutral and KOing Peach
Peach is floaty enough for Fox to do some pretty slick combos on her. Down Throw to RAR Bair if they DI low, the basic Fair Uair if they DI badly. If they start airdodging Bair, you can either Down Smash or regrab. FThrow and BThrow are both fairly poor in this MU from my experience but UThrow is actually really good. Uair is an amazing kill option on Peach - she's floaty, of course, and Uair will beat her Dair as long as you space correctly. You can jump and fast fall below her until you force an option then punish hard with Uair.

Basically, Peach has trouble landing and she's floaty. Two bad weaknesses in conjunction with each other. Abuse this.

Nair to Up Smash and Dair to Up Smash are good as always but Peach has very good oos options and most of her neutral can be filled with powershields so you're probably better off going for safer KO options - namely Bair. Bair is an amazing option in the whole MU so as long as it's not too stale you can kill her with it. Don't even bother going offstage but you can cover her get up options very well. Dair combos into a lot, Grabs are good and, of course, you can just sit at the edge spamming lagless Bairs to force bad get up options like regular get up and roll then punish hard with Dair, Nair and so on.


Overview
I recognise that I've rambled a lot and talked kinda doom and gloom but the matchup isn't thaaat hard. It's probably only a tiny bit in Peach's favour. Your DI has to be on point, your spacing has to be really on point but I didn't stress enough how important lasers are post-patch. Lasers are damn near free for a lot of this MU which forces Peach to approach... something she doesn't have a nice time doing against a character as fast as Fox. It's just Fox gets combod hard and Peach has mad combos and really strong edgeguarding - she exploits our weaknesses well.



oh and dedede is free and pac man is boring lmaooooooooooooooo

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

To all Fox players out there, the Rosalina sub-forum has a match-up discussion thread all set up to analyze Rosalina's match-up against Fox. Got anything to share for the Rosalina vs. Fox match-up? Then head to the following thread link...

http://smashboards.com/threads/414440/

In terms of the rules, be sure to go to the directory thread.

http://smashboards.com/threads/404194/

 

[M@v]

To all Fox players out there, the Rosalina sub-forum has a match-up discussion thread all set up to analyze Rosalina's match-up against Fox. Got anything to share for the Rosalina vs. Fox match-up? Then head to the following thread link...

http://smashboards.com/threads/414440/

In terms of the rules, be sure to go to the directory thread.

http://smashboards.com/threads/404194/

I'll try to stop by and elaborate when I get time, but I think this is Fox's worst matchup.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I'll try to stop by and elaborate when I get time, but I think this is Fox's worst matchup.

In the customs department, I would think that thanks to Reflector, Fox can avoid being pressured by Shooting Star Bit.

 

[Foster J.]

In the customs department, I would think that thanks to Reflector, Fox can avoid being pressured by Shooting Star Bit.

The reflector still comes out slow, and if anything that'll just be absorbed by Luma, so what's the point?
In the customs department Luma Warp is deadly to our telegraphed recovery, since you can just warp it out while he's Side B'ing and kill him.

 

[DavemanCozy]

While Rosalina is here, I agree with Mav. This is a bad, bad matchup with Fox, I can believe it to be his worst up there above Luigi and Pikachu. Her jab is probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen, and our methods of getting rid of Luma are not very reliable; F-throw's hitbox is probably our best move, but it has a tendency to miss depending on Luma's position, I usually have to either get a pivot grab or tomahawk -> grab and that's really hard to do against a character with large hitboxes that also have ridiculous priority. This is the one matchup where the our new jab is actually a lot more useful in though, the rapid hitboxes trap Luma and the last hit knocks her a bit away.

 

[Trifroze]

Falcon MU thread started to discuss Fox, do drop in and give your thoughts on the matchup:

http://smashboards.com/threads/come-ahwn-captain-falcon-mu-thread-lap-9-fox.399692/

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I think all three matchups are +1 in Fox' favor, DDD might be +2 even.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Dedede is definetely in Fox's favour. The worst thing he has on us is his pseudo "jab lock," which can be SDI'd out of, and mixups with D-tilt which has a good hitbox.

But everything else about Dedede can be avoided by Fox. In fact, Fox can just avoid Dedede altogether; our N-air sends Gordos back at him, he's so slow and easy to run away from, and his falling speed + weight + size just makes him juggle food.

 

[Skarfelt]

To all Fox players out there, the Rosalina sub-forum has a match-up discussion thread all set up to analyze Rosalina's match-up against Fox. Got anything to share for the Rosalina vs. Fox match-up? Then head to the following thread link...

http://smashboards.com/threads/414440/

In terms of the rules, be sure to go to the directory thread.

http://smashboards.com/threads/404194/

Wait, so am I now allowed to post there if I'm under Fox's perspective in the MU? I was going to post about what I've always found hard in the MU and what you guys can abuse but there's a rule against that?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Wait, so am I now allowed to post there if I'm under Fox's perspective in the MU? I was going to post about what I've always found hard in the MU and what you guys can abuse but there's a rule against that?

You can still bring up your inputs on the match-up, but since the thread is at Rosalina's sub-forum, the match would be under her perspective, instead of Fox's perspective.

 

[DavemanCozy]

One more week for Pac, Petch and Dedehue.

 

[KentaKurodani]

@ Mario & Sonic Guy I can say this, you aren't going to get nearly as much help with the MU threads if you don't allow both sides of the MU to be discussed. Why should we help you guys out with your side if you aren't going to return the favor and advance it from our perspective?

 

[DavemanCozy]

@ Mario & Sonic Guy I can say this, you aren't going to get nearly as much help with the MU threads if you don't allow both sides of the MU to be discussed. Why should we help you guys out with your side if you aren't going to return the favor and advance it from our perspective?

We've discussed Rosalina here already. Pretty much the consensus here was that she beats Fox (or rather Luma beats Fox, lol), though her weight is a + on our side since she dies stupidly early. I am working on linking those posts in this thread on the OP

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

@ Mario & Sonic Guy I can say this, you aren't going to get nearly as much help with the MU threads if you don't allow both sides of the MU to be discussed. Why should we help you guys out with your side if you aren't going to return the favor and advance it from our perspective?

Isn't this thread for Fox's perspective with each match-up? It shouldn't be that hard to modify the discussion contents so that you're focusing on a different fighter.

In other words, if Rosalina is discussed here, the match-up would be under Fox's perspective, since it's at Fox's sub-forum.

Still, some match-ups are discussed more than others.

 

[Skarfelt]

Every subforum that comes to most on ours about MUs, I just pop over and talk about what's hard for Fox and talk about what they can do to abuse Fox's weaknesses. I mean, I can't really share anything about twhat I think of the MU from Rosa's perspective as I play it from the opposite way round. From my perspective, Rosa feels like total ********, the neutral's impossible and she edgeguards us really easily but there were people over there saying it might be neutral because from their perspective, Fox is ridiculously fast, kills early and so on. When you play a character long enough, their weaknesses become more and more frustrating - it's why we constantly see top players not named ESAM underrate their mains.

 

[Splebel]

Isn't this thread for Fox's perspective with each match-up? It shouldn't be that hard to modify the discussion contents so that you're focusing on a different fighter.

In other words, if Rosalina is discussed here, the match-up would be under Fox's perspective, since it's at Fox's sub-forum.

Still, some match-ups are discussed more than others.

Besides. Don't you want to know how the opponent would approach the matchup? If you know what the enemy wants/operates you can be better prepared.

 

[DavemanCozy]

I won't be commenting much on mu's as I'm focusing on cleaning the OP of this thread up a bit. There are loads of things that have changed in only half a year, it's crazy how much patches have changed some matchups (ex. the Diddy mu), making some of the comments irrelevant now.

 

[Foster J.]

I won't be commenting much on mu's as I'm focusing on cleaning the OP of this thread up a bit. There are loads of things that have changed in only half a year, it's crazy how much patches have changed some matchups (ex. the Diddy mu), making some of the comments irrelevant now.

There's also a maintenance going on the 31th of August which may or may not change things once again.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

@ DavemanCozy Fox/Oli was briefly touched on (and I agree with everything that was said by Gucci) but we still need to play that mu sometime man. Hit me up when you're free so we can put some theory into practice.

Edit: the removal of the infinite jab reset makes the bjr mu 60:40 as the absolute upper maximum for fox. I think i remember us agreeing to 65:35 previously.

 

[Chalice]

So I'm looking to pick up Fox as a main and was wondering what are good secondaries to use for his bad match ups? I know that Rosa is very hard for Fox and I don't have any experience with Ness with Fox. I was thinking someone like Roy who has disjoints and can kill Luma consistently but other than that I'm not too sure

 

[Sir Tundra]

The vs Mu is without a doubt in fox's favor. We have speed, we can combo this fat penquin up to upsurd percent's, and most of Dedede's moves can be avoided altogether since most of dedede's moves are slow af. The only moves we fear are dedede's pseudo jab locks, Down tilt mixups, and his down throw followups.

60/40 in our favor hell it might even be 65/35 in our favor but that's probably an overstatement .

 

[~ Gheb ~]

[...]The only way a fox main could ever lose to a Dedede is if the fox main doesn't know the matchup.

60/40 in our favor hell it might even be 65/35 in our favor but that's probably an overstatement .

Dude, if a lack of matchup knowledge is the only hope DDD actually has in this matchup then 6/4 is WAY too low a rating.

 

[M@v]

Somewhat on topic, I retooled the HD roster maker at http://apps.warchamp7.com/smash/rosterHD/ into a Matchup chart. I used the roster makers colors to denote a matchup ratio for Fox vs that character, which can be found in the image itself below. No customs, Miis are 1111s. I plan on making one of these for each of my characters. Enjoy

 

[Chalice]

Somewhat on topic, I retooled the HD roster maker at http://apps.warchamp7.com/smash/rosterHD/ into a Matchup chart. I used the matchup makers colors to denote a matchup ratio for Fox vs that character, which can be found in the image itself below. No customs, Miis are 1111s. I plan on making one of these for each of my characters. Enjoy

Edit: Now it's working

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Looks cool.

Some weird numbers you got there though. Robin a losing matchup? Roy even?

 

[M@v]

Robin's fantastic at zoning out Fox. If a Robin edgeguards a Fox correctly, he has a hard time getting back, and if Fox is on ledge and robin gets an arcfire down on top of it, Fox has no safe options to get up, because either Arcfire covers it, or Robin can react to it. Not to mention Levin Sword kills Fox stupid early, and Robin has hoo-hah now. The only time this matchup isn't a losing one for Fox imo is if he can get on a large stage and camp robin hard, since Robin really won't be able to catch him. (This is also true with Luigi btw). As for Roy, He has a lot of similar tools that Marth/Lucina has, but has even better killing capability, and can force Fox to not overcommit on combos due to Blazer's Armored startup on the ground. If Fox overcommits, A blazer with rage is killing him at 100%. Thats a common them with a lot of these matchups actually; if Fox was heavier, most of these matchups would be better for Fox, whether its a good matchup being even better, or a bad matchup being not as bad. So many characters can kill Fox stupidly early with Rage.

 

[Foster J.]

However when Robin commits you can punish him, his grab range is also shabby, and dash grab sort of none existent.
Like say run towards Robin, predict the Arc Fire so you do a jump air dodge to get past it, there's a lot of endlag so I've netted kills being able to stay close to Robin, but Levin Uair and Bair kills absurdly early.

Another thing to mention is Robin mains actually using the items where you have to be careful, cause the books can KO you at... what 100 or so?


I'd say you forgot to mention the strength of Roy lying in the his reversed Tipper, as a Ftilt from Roy can feel like getting Ftilted from Ganon, so Roy's punishing options are very lethal in his tilts.
It'd go as far as to say Roy has a deadzone around him when he's shielding due to the nature of Blazer's coverage out of shield and how it'd have armour on activation, so tomahawking a good Roy is not the best option.
Also due to the nature of Fox being combo food Roy can get some good stuff going from Dthrow for a long time, and his speed is fast enough to follow Fox.

And I disagree with your statement of him being heavier, no it's not his weight that's the problem it's more "If rage wasn't in the game Fox would be better"


And, I'm sorry, but how does Fox have the advantage over Meta Knight? A Dthrow sets you up for Up B, a Dash Attack sets you up for Up B.
He only has to pick 1 out of 2 options that'll destroy Fox, cause we're the fastest faller the easiest to combo in the game due to poor diagonal DI.

And besides that MK has a reliable killing option in Uthrow, can edge guard us with Fsmash, Dsmash and Nair.
We can't just ledge trump MK due to Shuttle Loop slices through and hits you if you're fiending for a Dsmash / Dtilt, and he just can wait if you Fsmash.

We used to be able to set up bad situations for MK with the jabjab, but alas this is a MU that's just a lot more even, if not in MK's favour, as he's got more solid confirms and options than Fox.

And you really can't say ZSS is in our favour, at best it's even....

 

[Sir Tundra]

Dude, if a lack of matchup knowledge is the only hope DDD actually has in this matchup then 6/4 is WAY too low a rating.

Now that I think about it... Lack of matchup knowledge might be an overexaggeration

edit:

Somewhat on topic, I retooled the HD roster maker at http://apps.warchamp7.com/smash/rosterHD/ into a Matchup chart. I used the roster makers colors to denote a matchup ratio for Fox vs that character, which can be found in the image itself below. No customs, Miis are 1111s. I plan on making one of these for each of my characters. Enjoy

IDK about you but I don't see any matchupreally being 70:30 in a game like smash 4. Yeah theirs a few exceptions here and their but for the most I don't see any matchup being that big of a scale.

Also the Rosalina Matchup.

Look I know the Rosalina Matchup is bad and all but 30:70?

That might be a bit of a stretch. I could be wrong though

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

You Fox mains, the Jigglypuff boards are discussing you, mind sharing some MU info?
http://smashboards.com/threads/poke...d-discussing-fox.384478/page-13#post-20163301

 

[DavemanCozy]

Somewhat on topic, I retooled the HD roster maker at http://apps.warchamp7.com/smash/rosterHD/ into a Matchup chart. I used the roster makers colors to denote a matchup ratio for Fox vs that character, which can be found in the image itself below. No customs, Miis are 1111s. I plan on making one of these for each of my characters. Enjoy

Looks pretty good, though I do agree with what others have said here about Fox losing to Robin, I think Fox wins the MU.

I lean towards Falcon vs Fox being even, but it could go either way. Very volatile mu. Same with MK. Both could go either way. Ness is in Fox's disadvantage imo, 45:55 for Ness. I think Fox beats Kirby 55:45 minimum, it's a patient MU for both sides. I personally think Pits are even vs Fox.

I'm going to update the mu discussion now too.
vs
vs
vs

I put some input on the Falco board when they discussed the mu way back, I put the mu at 55:45 in favor of Fox.

 

[Macchiato]

I personally think Zelda Fox is Even

Zelda can easily combo fox with uthrow and dthrow. She has kill set ups on him as well. She can gimp him so easily with dair or dtilt. Dtilt beats out illusion and hits below the ledge. She also kills earlier.

Fox can rush her down and pressure her effectively. She cannot compete with his speed. He kills her at good percents. He can easily prevent a Zelda from landing too. Fox can laser for pressure but use it effectively because Zelda can and WILL snipe you with Farore's wind.

 

[PHP]

The Fox vs Palutena match up is in Fox's favor 60:40. Palutena can beat out a all of Fox's aero offence so it's best to stay grounded in this matchup. You also want to be weary of Palutena's up smash because it has lingering hitboxes and will hit you if you recover poorly. Palutena has a hard time against fast characters so comboing her should be easy because of her size and her start up, however she can also combo Fox because he's a fast faller.
As long as your combo game is good and your side b doesn't become predictable Fox should do well in this matchup

 

[JigglyZelda003]

At best Zelda vs Fox is like 40:60. Zelda has a really hard time walling Fox out if he's careful about his rush ins. And unless she has a stock lead she can't really make Fox approach her which makes this matchup harder for her to gain a lead in if Fox is dedicating to run and gun.

Faroes sniping laser blast really isn't a viable option unless Zelda read it ahead of time and was already warping before he fired. Generally its better if Fox is shooting more that two lasers that Zelda just reflects if he was already firing before she could Faroes in. Because one or two lasers aren't that laggy.

Gimping is a given partially because its what Zelda is good at but also because Zelda general outreaches Fox. Its like fighting Mario but a faster and easier to combo Mario. If Zelda places the hitboxes right Fox can't get close to her but due to Foxs speed that can be hard to do constantly unless you are reading Fox like a book. So Zelda can out space Fox but he can wiggle into her zone very easily because she's more commited to her actions and lacks an air game to out footsie Fox in the air.

Fox because of Usmash can kill Zelda just as early as she can kill him so if both parties end up in kill percents at the same time it comes down to who males the best baits/reads to land the finish.