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Affirmative Action

Alicorn

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It has been in the news lately that SCOTUS is taking up a legal case on Affirmative Action.

History of Affirmative Action Britannica.com

When does it end? Supreme Court Weighs Nixing Affirmative Action cbsnews.com

America After Affirmative Action The Atlantic



Judging from what I've read. It sounds like Affirmative action is on its way out the door given the Court's make up.

The Conservatives argue that we shouldn't need Race base admissions because its view as discriminating.

Defenders of Affirmative action say that it helps gives historically marginalized groups a chance to succeed but race is just one of many factors in the admission process.

Thoughts?
 
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Strong Badam

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Could you provide some more details/context? Maybe a link to the specific case, some background on what affirmative action means and its history?
I am personally aware of the details here, btw; using these questions as a means of pointing out that the thread opener can be improved to better facilitate discussion. It kinda seems like "Affirmative action - discuss!" as it is right now.
 

Sucumbio

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I've heard both for and against arguments and am unable to form an opinion on this specific mechanism because I am inherently biased having received several social ladder advances simply because of my name and appearance which all humans require for some reason to enter trust.
 

#HBC | Acrostic

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The US's postsecondary education system is a joke. So much so that it's currently used as a sieve to chaff the wheat and those who are unfit to be in the competitive programs get cut out of the wolf pack of academic performers anyways. Why are many six figure jobs locked behind a professional degree that can only be attained after you clear the postsecondary route? Law schools, even T14, only reward their top performers in this economy who get the highest scores and get nominated into clerkships, internships, or whatever brainwashing camp is offered by the Federalist Society to 1Ls. Medicals schools, MD in particular only accept 2-3% of total applications. DO schools last time I checked was still around 6-8%. So much so that many students who did not perform during their postsecondary decide to do an SMP or a post-bac program which is another six month to one year do or die gamble where they bank on performing against other performers in hopes of gaining a seat into yet another four years program that promises this time to give them the skills to a rewarding profession. At what point can we just point out the rot that has happened because university has become a commodity now to everyone that the value of the proposition itself has come down so low that there no longer needs to be a racial gatekeeping mechanism to it? When it was a privileged opportunity in which only a few members of a select class could enter and gain prestige from then it was valuable. But now that you have opened the floodgates to anyone with any background and any race, why is it so surprising that a college degree now does not carry the same value that it did over a hundred years ago even after Ivy League schools got exposed for having always instituted racial quotas to stop the influx of Jews from poisoning their racially diverse biomass of the educated elite? It's because it was a bigoted racial institution that withheld people that everyone valued it. It was because not everyone could be selected that it held value. It is because people at their root are ignorant, bigoted, and naive that they valued a college education and ignored it as part of a rich history or exclusion and poor racial policy that has graced this country since its inception that we are conditioned to state that US college students are more successful overall than their non-college peers, even though there are likely a multitude of other factors outside of just holding a degree in and of itself that those students would have been more successful than their peers if they chose to invest in other opportunities.

So much of the current postsecondary education is based around survey courses which are emphasized more so than skills. Therefore you learn more about pattern recognition within the field rather than attempting to establish a linear regression model to map out a line of best fit that indicates a potential pattern with relative confidence. You don't find the pattern yourself or learn how to find patterns, rather you are told the pattern that was abstracted by someone else for you, forced to submit to it, and memorize it verbatim making you selectively less ignorant, but that much more biased to a viewpoint as you are conditioned with a senseless scoring system that attempts to loop you into a pointless negative feedback model where you yourself don't understand what the good scores mean down the road and what the bad scores mean in the end. You're just following the prompt that you've been given and feeding them the answers that they expect to see without any iota of individualistic thought or a middle finger as a gesture.

Students are more likely to speak with confidence in many of these open discussion classes in which you get inspired by your peers rather than present their opinion as being one within an Overton Window, N=1, or within a confidence interval. The issue has become systemic, so much so that even science journals like Science and Nature within the pasar have been exposed for not rigorously holding their publications seriously enough to reproducibility and allowing fraudulent papers to sit and thrive for years such as the Alzheimer's paper that included a photoshopped band on the beta amyloid, tau protein thesis. Furthermore, this faulty research lead to perpetuate even more fraudulent treatments such as Biogen's release of Aduhelm, a medication that they released in order to leech off medicare/medicaid for subsidies and instead of having upsides, increase the risk of brain edema and hemorrhage for the patients involved in the studies which garnered FDA approval.

People tout STEM as being the saving grace for the future of this country when most labs are staffed by H1B visa immigrants who are running primers and being educational resources to a freshman class of which 15% will drop out of STEM and engage in the liberal arts. The amount of fraud that occurs in any given university based on the amount of useless research that has little to no positive impact in and of itself is a disease on federal funding that will continue to go unnoticed because undergraduate systems train students to think on the absolutely lowest bandwidth possible. How can there be a conversation about Gruter vs. Bollinger without pointing out that the education system itself has become a cesspit that has little to no accountability to the most vulnerable population which has been students as the cost of this education has skyrocketed and the quality of the education has become increasingly diminished and fraught with increasingly more administrators weighing down the system rather than it being intuitive, agile, and a learning experience?

What's the point of howling about it when no one cares that most lab curriculum has never made sense from a mastery perspective. How do you gain value from running an agar plate only once? A TLC chromatography study only once? A Western blot only once? What skills are you actually learning from these classes, from these labs, from your prep, and from your professor when it comes to evolving yourself into a professional? And when you realize that you're failing or not performing then what systems are there in place to transition some of these students into other STEM fields rather than failing them and forcing them to either learn how to play the game or go home. When we're talking about exclusion into these systems, into these fields, and into these majors there is no reflection on the fact that the system itself is by nature designed to be exclusive and exerts pressure on students financially and insensibly to the point of jeopardizing their physical health to the point of them going on "all-nighters" or forcing them to eat ramen and other types of junk food to meet ends meet. Why am I always so disappointed in the level of discourse, the degree of thinking, and the lack of personal dialogue in these posts?
 
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Alicorn

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I've heard both for and against arguments and am unable to form an opinion on this specific mechanism because I am inherently biased having received several social ladder advances simply because of my name and appearance which all humans require for some reason to enter trust.
From what I've heard AA was formed to give historically disadvantaged groups a chance to get in to Universities. But Race is one factor among many that are taken into consideration.

I think the reason why some groups hate it is because there are a limited number of spots in an admission process and more often then not a wealthy person wants to buy the spot for their kid. But I fear this will make diversity even harder to achieve on campus as those who work hard and do everything right, will simply get outbid by a wealthy donor. Thus going against the very merit base system those against AA say they are fighting for.
 

#HBC | Acrostic

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From what I've heard AA was formed to give historically disadvantaged groups a chance to get in to Universities. But Race is one factor among many that are taken into consideration. I think the reason why some groups hate it is because there are a limited number of spots in an admission process and more often then not a wealthy person wants to buy the spot for their kid. But I fear this will make diversity even harder to achieve on campus as those who work hard and do everything right, will simply get outbid by a wealthy donor. Thus going against the very merit base system those against AA say they are fighting for.
Asian minorities dislike AA on the basis that institutions like Harvard are still implementing quota gaps and justifying the decision through using the holistic method like personality/character scoring in order to give them lower averages than they would if there are to be a blind system where people get into schools based on test scores alone. What they are being selectively ignorant about is that these schools have had at least a century of history with this behavior and attacking affirmative action is not the way to go. In addition, one could argue that asian americans are a victim of their own success. Although it is known that we are the "model minority" it is unknown that within the past couple of years that the median income of most asian americans has been higher than not just any other minority, but also among caucasians. Therefore it's not surprising that in many cases top asians are competing against top asians especially when it comes to academics as a focus on academics tends to oddly be a strange obsession and point of fierce focus to us when it comes to success in life.
 

Alicorn

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I heard that there are some Asian American groups that oppose it but there is also a group that is for it.

The Model minority myth is one that was carefully crafted during the cold war to try to win over allies in Asia from siding with the USSR. This was done by treating Asian Americans better than other racial groups at the time. This meant Asians had an easier time immigrating to the US and were often high skilled or worked with the US Military. So this selective immigration was used to paint a picture that Asians were the preferred minority in stark contrast to the "bad minority" often being African American. Model Minority myth served a second purpose and that was to dismiss the accusations of systemic racism made by African Americans, Allow opponents of civil right to shifting the blame not on racism but on a "Failure of culture" that there was no need for social programs to help disadvantage groups, because some people just didn't work hard enough.


So when I heard that the guy was using Asian Americans as a way to strike down AA. I wasn't really surprised, using a myth that was carefully constructed as a PR stunt to take down a program that benefit disadvantaged groups.
 
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Oracle Link

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I mean isnt America still a Terrible Place for Autists To live in?
That seems like a more urgent issue as its Exceptionally hard for Autists to get Jobs!
Other than that i might find it okay if and only if its fair meaning if lets say Darker skinned People get one White People get the same Ammount which probably wouldnt be detrimentel at all its just a fairness thing!
So lets Say 30% of all People at Corporation X Have to be Dark Skinned than 30% Have to be light Skinned Thats what i call Fairness!
But also there might be tons of Jobs were Men/ Whites maybe arent as acepted so the same system should be implemented there aswell!
Although at the end of the Day This Issue could just as easily be about qualification in some cases so yeah!

And please dont hate bomb me! Can we just Argue civilized!
 
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Oracle Link

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What are those tons of jobs that White/men are not accepted?
I highlighted two words:
Might and as! There Might be some Jobs were Whites/ Males arent as Aceptted!
Like im sure there are tons of atleast smaller companies in More Darker Skinned Countires/Areas/ with Darker skinned or Female Bosses Where men/Whites struggle!
But nice that you stayed Civil!
 

Alicorn

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I highlighted two words:
Might and as! There Might be some Jobs were Whites/ Males arent as Aceptted!
Like im sure there are tons of atleast smaller companies in More Darker Skinned Countires/Areas/ with Darker skinned or Female Bosses Where men/Whites struggle!
But nice that you stayed Civil!
In America if you are male and white most of the doors are open for you. You can go where ever you want from north to south, from coast to coast. You can explore it all. You can submit a resume for job and the chances of your job application being denied are very small. To be White and male gives you the advantage in America of being the default.

But not everyone is as lucky there are historical reasons why AA was created. One of them being that minorities particular black people were not allowed loans and often lived in houses that were shoddily built in Red line zones so they couldn't sell their houses to pay for collage and Universities. This meant minorities could be excluded from Universities and collages by locking education behind rising tuition cost. AA was created to try and mend the wounds but it is more like a band aid over a gunshot wound, the bullet fragments have yet to be removed. However this guy trying to kill AA doesn't want those wounds to heal because he knows if they heal it would lead to a more educated working class, a more racial and class conscious working class that would hold people like him and his donors accountable. So he tries to get rid of AA to preserve the ignorance of the high class.

Alicorn Alicorn How you feel right now. This is what I feel on a regular basis.
I'm not annoyed by Oracle he is from Germany so from an outsiders perspective as well as an insider's perspective America's problems are difficult to understand.
 

#HBC | Acrostic

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I'm not annoyed by Oracle he is from Germany so from an outsiders perspective as well as an insider's perspective America's problems are difficult to understand.
You would rather slight an entire country for intercultural incompetence rather than critique a single Smashboard's user? That's dope. Especially when that country ran arguably on the worst racial campaigns (the Germans as the "Aryan race" purged all other inferior races in a form of cleansing) in history which resulted in at least the death of six million Jews. But honestly, if that's an honest take, then w/e. If anything, I would think that with Germany's history they would understand why a country like the United States struggles on issues with race, since it's an issue that they are also still struggling with as a country based on systemic and systematic polling data that I saw on dw (as of writing this post).
 
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Alicorn

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No, its not a slight against Germany, I meant Oracle may not be familiar with US history. It is however disappointing that Oracle has fallen for such things, given his own country's history and how that dark history was heavily based off the American model he would know more than anyone what racism does to a country. I guess it was just me being too lenient on him now that I think about it.
 
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