Event - Apex 2015 A question to all you Melee and Brawl players regarding 64.

[Han Solo]

At Apex 2013, these were the entrant numbers for all 3 smash games:

Brawl: 338
Melee: 336
64: 95

With such huge numbers for Brawl and Melee and because of time constraints, bracket pools make sense for those games (I say this without any TO experience though, so if you feel differently let me know). 64 didn't have pools, but instead had a 96-man bracket from the get go.

For Apex 2014, Alex Strife was talking about the possibility of pools for 64. Currently, there is a 128-man cap on 64. So, if all 128 spots are filled, it would be the largest 64 tourney ever in North America, but 128 is just a "decently-sized" number of entrants for Melee and Brawl. With 128 entrants, I feel like 64 wouldn't have the same time constraints as the other two games.

Therefore, as a 64 player wanting to play lots of competitive games, I would love to do Round Robin pools. As Brawl and Melee players, would you feel it is unfair if 64 got Round Robin pools while the Melee and Brawl tourneys got bracket pools?

 

[Vkrm]

If there's time, and it makes the 64 tourney better I don't see why not.

 

[Strong Badam]

It'd be cool if 64 and PM got pools. I think that'd be totally fair!

 

[Yagzathoth]

That'd be nice to see, you don't tend to see many 64 tourneys being streamed or uploaded.

 

[Doomolish]

I support this.

 

[Zeonix]

I agree with what these guys just said. I started as a melee player, then brawl, then PM, and just very recently picked up N64. I for one, would love to see some more N64 at Apex 2K14!!! Besides, if there are more entrants, it is only fair!

 

[pidgezero_one]

I hate bracket pools, go for it lol

 

[infiniteV115]

I support pools (specifically RR over bracket pools but if bracket pools are desired then that's cool too I guess) for 64, go for it!

Oh and to clarify, I'm an active member of the competitive brawl scene

 

[Han Solo]

I'm not a TO. I'm just asking because Alex Strife said at Zenith that he felt it wouldn't be fair to Melee and Brawl players if we got RR pools and they got bracket pools. I can see where he's coming from, but at the same time, I really really want round robin pools.

 

[Yobolight]

Yeah 64 go go go!

 

[banze]

I'm coming from far far away just to play this game!
If there is no schedule problem, let there be RR pools Please TO's !

 

[Maliki]

If 64 did get RR pools how big would the bracket be and how big would each pool be? guessing we hit the 128 cap

 

[Bones0]

Are they planning on doing bracket pools for Melee again after last year's fiasco? Every game should just do RR pools as long as they have setups to run them. If your community doesn't bring enough setups, then oh well, you'll have to settle for bracket pools or straight bracket.

 

[Han Solo]

We definitely had enough setups last year.

 

[SoggyEagle]

I fully support unrestricted fun that does not restrict the fun of others in any negative way.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

I fully support unrestricted fun that does not restrict the fun of others in any negative way.

best way of sayign this
also yes

 

[clubbadubba]

From everything we've heard in the 64 community, RR pools or anything else outside of bracket pools (which is effectively a large bracket in disguise) is not on the table for the 64 tournament at Apex 2014. The explanation we've received through the grapevine is that the Apex staff wants to keep all of the tournaments "uniform." I suppose by uniform they mean in terms of tournament format as opposed to in terms of time to complete the tournament, cap space, and main stage time, because those have not been "uniform" in the past among games (not that I expect them to be). Based on recent discussion, I believe I speak for most of the 64 community when I say that we don't understand why 64 is not allowed to have something more than a single bracket.

-The number of players in 64 is much smaller than the main games of melee/brawl so the tournament would still be completed on time

-The number of setups would not be a problem based on past experience

The only reason it seems that Apex staff doesn't want to do different things with different games is to avoid complaints from the larger communities about why their game also doesn't have RR pools or whatever it is the smaller communities get. And yet in this thread the response has been overwhelmingly positive to the idea of letting smaller games have more in depth tournaments. Players from the larger communities responded basically saying they understand that more entrants means more time, and not one person thought it wouldn't be fair.

Myself and the 64 community would very much appreciate an explanation from the Apex staff as to why we cannot have RR pools or at least something better than a single bracket. We really only have bits and pieces of information thus far and quite frankly the explanations we've gotten just don't make any sense, so I would like to get a clear explanation on the issue.

I hope this post wasn't disrespectful in any way, I am just trying to get some answers.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

I'll go ask strife soon

 

[smashmachine]

Are they planning on doing bracket pools for Melee again after last year's fiasco? Every game should just do RR pools as long as they have setups to run them. If your community doesn't bring enough setups, then oh well, you'll have to settle for bracket pools or straight bracket.

.....they didn't run bracket pools last year though?

 

[Bones0]

.....they didn't run bracket pools last year though?

Yes they did, and it was a huge waste of time and opportunity. It only takes 1 person to hold up a bracket pool, so if someone doesn't show up, you have to wait around for 10-15 minutes before they finally get DQed and you can continue on in the bracket. My pool got changed at midnight from something like 3 PM to 8 AM so no one in my pool showed up on time (I just HAPPENED to get there right before it got called). So we played through the bracket DQing everyone after waiting around for 15 minutes for each person, and then after we had played through up to Winner's Finals I think, some of the people in my pool finally arrived and (rightfully) complained about being DQed when the times weren't posted well enough in advance. So from there, we REPLAYED the pool and I think we ended up finishing about 2-3 hours after the pool was supposed to start. If we had done a round robin, we would have finished SOONER because the people that arrived late could have just played their matches and there wouldn't have been matches being held up. On top of all of this, Melee ended up finishing all of the pools so ridiculously early that we had a huge gap before bracket finally started for no real reason.

Frankly, if they are doing bracket pools again, I'll probably just ask for a refund since I already registered.


Also, I'd just like to say that it's BS if the 64 community ALSO gets shafted with bracket pools just because it seems more "fair". I don't play 64 even a little, and the last time I watched any 64 was at Apex's GFs, but I still think it's dumb that they are essentially playing a faster tournament than they need to (not sure if they are still capping the bracket this year as well, but that's also silly if you ask me). This is a 3-day tournament, so if you can't finish a tournament with all the 64 players with RR pools, you are doing something wrong. Like I said before, it's all about setup counts. If you have enough setups, RR pools will usually go faster than bracket pools, and you have less people getting DQed, more matches for the weaker players, and a more fair tournament because one bad matchup can't screw you over. If a community doesn't bring enough setups to finish RR pools in time, then so be it, but at least then people won't be able to complain because they can see that it just physically isn't possible. If volunteers is the issue, then the Apex team should speak up because I'm sure players would volunteer if they thought it would make RR pools more likely.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Bones, that is why we are arguing against bracket poolss
allso, our one semicampy stage was banned (Hyrule) so the tournament will be even faster.

 

[smashmachine]

last year's was some BS hybrid where everyone who got out of the "bracket pools" got put in winners

that ended up confusing everybody, and was just a horrendous idea all around

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

welp. this topic has to be changed due to the new 32 man brackets..which are still a bad idea

 

[smashmachine]

welp. this topic has to be changed due to the new 32 man brackets..which are still a bad idea

wait where is this

 

[clubbadubba]

https://www.facebook.com/events/137...id=1484490655109555&offset=0&total_comments=7

https://www.apex-series.com/Apex2014Schedule.pdf

4 pools of 32 ppl for 64, top 2 each advance to saturday

This really needs to be fixed. It feels like the 64 tournament is being shortened so that it will be done in time to be streamed at 10 AM on Saturday. There are players coming from Japan and Peru for the 64 tournament, it would be a real disservice to them to have this be the tournament experience.