A new Sheik Bread & Butter combo

[gsmVoiD]

This is a bnb I've used for quite some time, and in order to do it you need to be using the piercing needles (Custom neutral b 2) & have a full charge loaded up. This is very rage dependent, meaning if you have around 20% it may not work.

Inputs: Grab > F-Throw > Full hop Rising Needles > N-Air > Regrab > F-Throw > B-Fish / Nair / Uair / Fair

This will work best on fast fallers, but is not limited to fast fallers & is best used when you have low amounts of rage so that the initial Foward throw does not send the opponent too far to be hit by the Needles.

A gif of me using this in a tournament match: http://gfycat.com/MindlessLoathsomeCoelacanth

I haven't done enough labbing to know the specifics of what characters it does work on, what % it will stop working, who can use a nair/fair to trade with the nair or get out of a certain point of the combo.

F-Throw > BFish / D-Throw > Fair are both still excellent choices, but I like this since it'll net around 40% and give you a strong lead if you open up with it.

Thoughts?

 

[Jaxas]

This is a bnb I've used for quite some time, and in order to do it you need to be using the piercing needles (Custom neutral b 2) & have a full charge loaded up. This is very rage dependent, meaning if you have around 20% it may not work.

Inputs: Grab > F-Throw > Full hop Rising Needles > N-Air > Regrab > F-Throw > B-Fish / Nair / Uair / Fair

This will work best on fast fallers, but is not limited to fast fallers & is best used when you have low amounts of rage so that the initial Foward throw does not send the opponent too far to be hit by the Needles.

A gif of me using this in a tournament match: http://gfycat.com/MindlessLoathsomeCoelacanth

I haven't done enough labbing to know the specifics of what characters it does work on, what % it will stop working, who can use a nair/fair to trade with the nair or get out of a certain point of the combo.

F-Throw > BFish / D-Throw > Fair are both still excellent choices, but I like this since it'll net around 40% and give you a strong lead if you open up with it.

Thoughts?

Is there any particular reason it has to use the Piercing Needles?
Otherwise, I don't think this is true (but if it is, that's awesome!), but it's still pretty handy to keep in mind.

Is Fthrow->Needles true?

 

[gsmVoiD]

Rising piercing needles ends soon enough to where you can throw out the Aerial. If you have normal needles, you can do the start up of an aerial, but you don't have enough frames for the active hitbox to come out.

Fthrow-> Needles is true in training, & Fthrow -> Piercing needles does not register as true in training, however it's most likely very difficult to get out of, if not inescapable.

 

[TCL | Harp & Dagger]

This is a bnb I've used for quite some time, and in order to do it you need to be using the piercing needles (Custom neutral b 2) & have a full charge loaded up. This is very rage dependent, meaning if you have around 20% it may not work.

Inputs: Grab > F-Throw > Full hop Rising Needles > N-Air > Regrab > F-Throw > B-Fish / Nair / Uair / Fair

This will work best on fast fallers, but is not limited to fast fallers & is best used when you have low amounts of rage so that the initial Foward throw does not send the opponent too far to be hit by the Needles.

A gif of me using this in a tournament match: http://gfycat.com/MindlessLoathsomeCoelacanth

I haven't done enough labbing to know the specifics of what characters it does work on, what % it will stop working, who can use a nair/fair to trade with the nair or get out of a certain point of the combo.

F-Throw > BFish / D-Throw > Fair are both still excellent choices, but I like this since it'll net around 40% and give you a strong lead if you open up with it.

Thoughts?

It could be the quality of the video or the fact needles are hard to see anyway, but it looked like only one needle came out, or at least only one hit. could you just double tap b instead of using full needles? Or does only the third needle connect as you and your opponent move? And what about their DI?

 

[Zankoku]

He was using Piercing Needle.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Penetrating Needles*

which raises the question, can this be done with 3 default needles ?

 

[TCL | Harp & Dagger]

He was using Piercing Needle.

I'm aware, but it still looked like he only shot one, or only one hit. I'm guessing by the way you and your opponent moves it's only the third needle that hits?

 

[gsmVoiD]

All 3 needles hit. Even if you can't see it visually, you can just check the %s. 16% -> 23% indicates that 3 needles had to hit since there's no way 1 or 2 needles would do 7%

 

[New_Dumal]

So... it's possible ?
The damage is good , but looks like it's easy to drop the "combo" and be very character specific.
The custom thing doesn't help too.

I'm anxious about FThrow->Needles possibilities anyway,

 

[ArikadoSD]

So... it's possible ?
The damage is good , but looks like it's easy to drop the "combo" and be very character specific.
The custom thing doesn't help too.

I'm anxious about FThrow->Needles possibilities anyway,

I'm going to the lab with the combo in the op but with half-charged regular needles sometime tomorrow or saturday, and see if it can work.

It seems very possible though, on paper it's all a confirmed setup/true combos

 

[Sean de Lure]

yknow, I feel like it might have to be custom needles, they have lower KB (iirc). I suck at rising needles from a run, so I can't really test it too well

 

[ArikadoSD]

I went to the lab earlier and I got some notes/results:

- I don't think this is all a true combo. It's a setup that can work, but it's way too DI and percent dependent to really be a b&b combo, fthrow to bf twice in a row or fthrow to fair string is better
- default needles don't work, neither half charged nor fully charged. The reason half charged don't work is because Sheik has to go into charging animation for a bunch of frames before shooting them out which unfortunately gives the target enough time to react.
- Fthrow to fully charged penetrating needles seems to be a true combo. It doesn't register in training as such, but I was able to get it pretty much every time I did the timing correctly; only times I didn't was when I didn't read the DI fast enough or I was a bit slow. Maybe with more practice I could get it every time (like with fthrow to BF at first)
- Fthrow > full hop charged penetrating needles > nair > regrab > fthrow > bouncing fish in total does 40% damage. You can replace the bouncing fish at the end with RAR Bairs, you should be able to connect two in a row/
- I tested against two characters: robin and diddy. I got very shaky results with robin but solid ones on diddy, not sure why/what this means.

I did all the testing in training against lv9 CPUs both on 'attack' and 'stop', testing with a human is probably better because lv9 CPUs are always too frame perfect to be accurate which is ironic lol

edit: I should also note that fthrow to fullhop default fully charged needles also seems to be a combo, but I really don't think it's all that useful, because by the time you shoot out all the needles you have to land and don't have time for anything else. It does 14-16% damage iirc depending on how many needles you connect.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Okay I tested this in an actual match and it actually did work.. consistently o.o

It was really surprising and extremely good because it can deal 40% minimum in one go. I used it against a Captain Falcon.

 

[gsmVoiD]

This will work best on fast fallers, but is not limited to fast fallers & is best used when you have low amounts of rage so that the initial Foward throw does not send the opponent too far to be hit by the Needles.

^_^ It gives you the edge off of just one grab, which can be confirmed off of a fair, ftilt, jab, or even a bair with the new properties.

 

[BigHairyFart]

This number goes up to fifty if you pummel twice before each throw.

 

[ArikadoSD]

This number goes up to fifty if you pummel twice before each throw.

Realistically you can't do that though, they could easily escape.

 

[Sean de Lure]

i don't think you can even pummel once at ~0-10 if they are moderately mashing, no mash they probably would pop out right after the second hit, or at least before you can throw

 

[BigHairyFart]

Oh I didn't realize how long you could pummel them was based off of their percentage.

 

[00-Zero]

So I was playing Sheik dittos and it looks like she might be able to jab before the grab after nair. Not sure about other fast jabbers.

 

[Sean de Lure]

jab grab is escapeable, but if your opponent doesn't expect it, you can pull it off

 

[gsmVoiD]

Sheik can just trade a nair with the nair, making the jab grab scenario less likely to occur. Good mixup though

 

[Shado]

Im playing around with Fthrow > Full hop Penetrating Needles and at around 39 percent I think it combos into Ftilt. From what I'm seeing on Falcon at least I can Fthrow > Full hop Penetrating Needles then Sheik lands while Falcon is still above her letting her Ftilt. I think Utilt is also an option after the needles, and if Utilt combos into BF then this could be good. * All 3 needles are connecting