Guide A Link Between Duels : SSB4 Zelda Matchup Thread: [Upd2] Diddy Kong

[Macchiato]

Her projectiles are slow and easy to react to so we can easily reflect them. Up close, Zelda wins in close range. She can actually kill. Samus can poke her midrange but shielding basically shuts her down so. Yeah Zelda can literally shield most the match and win due to a slow grab and not being able to pressure shields well.
6-4 Zelda

 

[meleebrawler]

Her projectiles are slow and easy to react to so we can easily reflect them. Up close, Zelda wins in close range. She can actually kill. Samus can poke her midrange but shielding basically shuts her down so. Yeah Zelda can literally shield most the match and win due to a slow grab and not being able to pressure shields well.
6-4 Zelda

Up close, Samus's jab beats all of Zelda's kill moves. And if you try reflecting a super missile while Samus
has a charge shot ready she can just blast you during love's recovery frames even if the missile was reflected.

There's another problem with the match for Zelda; at long range there's basically nothing she can do to stop
Samus from charging.

 

[Macchiato]

Up close, Samus's jab beats all of Zelda's kill moves. And if you try reflecting a super missile while Samus
has a charge shot ready she can just blast you during love's recovery frames even if the missile was reflected.

There's another problem with the match for Zelda; at long range there's basically nothing she can do to stop
Samus from charging.

Jab is punishable and Fsmash out ranges and is disjointed. Shielding already like limits samus a lot. I played Ismar and he was really good like she won some games and then I started shielding and there wasn't much Ismar could do.

 

[meleebrawler]

Jab is punishable and Fsmash out ranges and is disjointed. Shielding already like limits samus a lot. I played Ismar and he was really good like she won some games and then I started shielding and there wasn't much Ismar could do.

If you're spacing fsmash then you're in mid-range, and if you're in mid-range you're susceptible to ftilt or even
fsmash, both of which start faster than fsmash. And if you're shielding up close, you'd be surprised how often
shields get broken by charge shot. Plus it's not like Zelda is much better at getting past shields herself.
Samus's jab is only really punishable if she tries to go for the second hit when she shouldn't.

 

[Afro Smash]

Looks like we're gonna have to fite to settle this

 

[Macchiato]

If you're spacing fsmash then you're in mid-range, and if you're in mid-range you're susceptible to ftilt or even
fsmash, both of which start faster than fsmash. And if you're shielding up close, you'd be surprised how often
shields get broken by charge shot. Plus it's not like Zelda is much better at getting past shields herself.
Samus's jab is only really punishable if she tries to go for the second hit when she shouldn't.

Which both are punishable. Ftilt and Fsmash are punishable. Also charge shot has slow start up and a player won't use it up close. If they do, our dsmash is much faster anyways. No the first his is still punishable. I've punished it many times.

 

[pinkdeaf1]

Looks like we're gonna have to fite to settle this

Or find some video, since nobody is reading earlier posts or are really taking Samus lightly. I mean, seriously. Pride for our low-tiers is great and all, but read earlier posts and respect the views of the mains of the character you are discussing. We might actually know what we are talking about.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

@ Macchiato Isn't it about time we had a rematch now that we have a more evenish matchup between us?

 

[Afro Smash]

Samus Vs Zelda Crew Battle imo

 

[Macchiato]

@ Macchiato Isn't it about time we had a rematch now that we have a more evenish matchup between us?

Another time. Finals are upon me.

 

[RoachCake]

Samus Vs Zelda Crew Battle imo

I'm up for this.

It's obvious that stating advantages/disadvantages for either character is getting everyone nowhere closer to agreeing.

 

[Hark17ball]

Samus Vs Zelda Crew Battle imo

SO much yes

 

[Zylach]

I'm up for this.

It's obvious that stating advantages/disadvantages for either character is getting everyone nowhere closer to agreeing.

I would do this if it could be done offline. Unfortunate that Nintendo's online isn't quite good enough for my tastes.

 

[Macchiato]

Samus Vs Zelda Crew Battle imo

@ Macchiato Isn't it about time we had a rematch now that we have a more evenish matchup between us?

Any of yew wanna play?

 

[Afro Smash]

Any of yew wanna play?

Ye, NNID Afro_Smash

 

[Macchiato]

Ye, NNID Afro_Smash

Added and hosting

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Any of yew wanna play?

I can play now. You host?

 

[Macchiato]

I can play now. You host?

wait rn im in a tournament though. ummm maybe latter.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

After playing Macchiato and looking over the replays I thought I'd give my 2 cents on the matchup now.

Both characters have risky shield pressure so up close it can go either way in neutral, but Samus forces Zelda to approach because of zair. Samus has a better combo game than Zelda so she can rack up damage well and occasionally combo into a kill move. Zelda kills slightly earlier but has easier to punish kill moves. I think Samus wins in the air and it's worse for Zelda to be on a platform above Samus than vice versa because it's easier for Samus to get down from a platform and it sometimes gives us time to charge Charge Shot.

If I were to put a number on it probably 55:45 Samus' favor. The match is more about who plays better but I think Samus has an easier time.

edit: forgot to mention edgeguarding. As far as I can tell outside of the frame of ledge vulnerability it just doesn't really happen in this matchup. Both characters are floaty and can recover very well there might be a rare moment where Zelda can land a gimp but it's not something that will happen often.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

After playing Macchiato and looking over the replays I thought I'd give my 2 cents on the matchup now.

Both characters have risky shield pressure so up close it can go either way in neutral, but Samus forces Zelda to approach because of zair. Samus has a better combo game than Zelda so she can rack up damage well and occasionally combo into a kill move. Zelda kills slightly earlier but has easier to punish kill moves. I think Samus wins in the air and it's worse for Zelda to be on a platform above Samus than vice versa because it's easier for Samus to get down from a platform and it sometimes gives us time to charge Charge Shot.

If I were to put a number on it probably 55:45 Samus' favor. The match is more about who plays better but I think Samus has an easier time.

edit: forgot to mention edgeguarding. As far as I can tell outside of the frame of ledge vulnerability it just doesn't really happen in this matchup. Both characters are floaty and can recover very well there might be a rare moment where Zelda can land a gimp but it's not something that will happen often.

What combos does samus have? Please explain, because Zelda's isn't awful if you actually think about it.

 

[Afro Smash]

What combos does samus have? Please explain, because Zelda's isn't awful if you actually think about it.

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...-string-list-and-knowledge-compendium.391853/

basically no combos!

 

[JigglyZelda003]

so now we move to Zero Suit Samus, aka Zamus aka Zero skill spamus, aka tig bitties, aka I hate her.

Samus kinda runs all over Zelda. She can flowchart to get by and doing any damage is a serious chore the entire match, the best thing is she is really light and Fsmash works now so IF we can land the killing blow she dies but its a hard road....im feeling its pretty close to 3:7

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

so now we move to Zero Suit Samus, aka Zamus aka Zero skill spamus, aka tig bitties, aka I hate her.

Samus kinda runs all over Zelda. She can flowchart to get by and doing any damage is a serious chore the entire match, the best thing is she is really light and Fsmash works now so IF we can land the killing blow she dies but its a hard road....im feeling its pretty close to 3:7

Uh no......just no....

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

Just a thought but maybe we should test out if you can combo off of a reflected Paralyzer shot at mid range(don't think it'd work at long). Like Nayru's a Paralyzer to the elevator for a kill.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Just a thought but maybe we should test out if you can combo off of a reflected Paralyzer shot at mid range(don't think it'd work at long). Like Nayru's a Paralyzer to the elevator for a kill.

Ferraris Wind, a jumping kick, elevator she would have to be REALLY close i think.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

I can't talk much,but from my knowledge, it doesn't seem too awful, but yea its difficult.
I think its 60:40 for ZSS, but it IS possible for 65:35
But a FG player won't help much.

 

[evmaxy54]

Just a thought but maybe we should test out if you can combo off of a reflected Paralyzer shot at mid range(don't think it'd work at long). Like Nayru's a Paralyzer to the elevator for a kill.

Reflecting Paralyzer only works at close range. If you try to reflect the shot at a distance it's a free Down B for ZSS.

**** this MU. But at least it isn't as bad as it once was #thankyoubasedmewtew

 

[Suicidal_Donuts]

Can't say much since I haven't fought many good ones, but her mobility alone can just let her shut Zelda down. Fast, high jumps, great recovery, decent range. ZSS pretty much has it all. You'll need to be extra defensive and play according to their errors. She's tall and floaty too, so at least she's a bigger target that gets killed quicker :3

She's beatable, but the only thing I tend to watch out for is when Zelda is above her. ZSS's aerial game is so strong, good luck getting back down unless you go offstage and teleport into the ledge (and even that is risky). It doesn't take a genius to know that this matchup is not in our favor. Maybe something like 40:60, but I can't really say.

 

[DoctorDub]

A friend of mine plays Zamus pretty well, so maybe I can provide some input. It also helps to be a main of her myself .

When fighting a Zamus, we must rely on the hardest of reads. A Zamus worth their weight in coal will recognise that we don't have **** for approaching, and they'll decide to just camp us out. They'll shoot a few paralysers our way, and out of this, they have a number of options to cover our responses:

|
Nayru's Love = Flip Kick
Spot Dodge = Run up -> grab / Dash Attack
Shield = Paralyser Shot / Run up -> grab
Roll = Run up -> grab / Dash Attack
Jump = Jump / Flip Kick

From this, I gather that we're better off just shielding or jumping to get a more favourable position.

It should also be noted that Zamus is god damn crazy in that she have very little lag. This is one of those weird matchups where you could beat a really good Zamus, but be obliterated fighting against one that just throws out moves and is for the lack of a better word, a bit of a scrub. The moves we should use against Zamus for punishing are: Down-Smash, Down-Tilt and Jab.
A good ol' D-tilt -> jab -> Grab will pretty much always work on her from 10%-65% I think.

You're not going to get many opportunities to use the Farore's elevator, either. Keep in mind that if you miss, you're probably dead, so it's not really worth doing at all unless they are very, very easy to predict. Even if she Dairs into you, you'll probably have too much shield-stun to get the elevator out in time. Of course, that can be partially solved with perfect shielding, but keep in mind the splash damage from the attack. Don't let her land.

Nair and Uair are good responses to a Zamus' flip kick. Sometimes you may be able to get an utilt off on them, but that's only if they don't kick you in the face. Speaking of which, if they do that on your shield and bounce off, they can act out of it, albeit they have 20 or so frames of lag in the air. Be ready for that.

If I have any more, I'll update this. I'll go to my weekly session on Tuesday and try and get a few Zamus games in.

Currently, I'm leaning towards
65:35

Spoiler

I'd still rather fight a ZSS than a ****ing Peach, god damn.

 

[evmaxy54]

Spoiler

I'd still rather fight a ZSS than a ****ing Peach, god damn.

Preach it sis!

 

[PUK]

Do we have spmething which clank with paralyser?

 

[DoctorDub]

Do we have spmething which clank with paralyser?

FW, Down smash, Fair, Dair and Bair clank.

 

[BJN39]

I believe FW and Dash attack clank with it, but I dunno about anything else. I'll test it out.

Dash attack definitely can't clank with her paralyzer due to having the no-clank priority, but technically Dtilt, Dsmash, and LKs can, since they have the ability to clank. Though, I wouldn't recommend trying to clank paralyzer by using FAir or BAir, LOL.

 

[DoctorDub]

Dash attack definitely can't clank with her paralyzer due to having the no-clank priority, but technically Dtilt, Dsmash, and LKs can, since they have the ability to clank. Though, I wouldn't recommend trying to clank paralyzer by using FAir or BAir, LOL.

Yeah, true. I tested it out and down-smash seems to clank fine. Everything else does nothin'
Dtilt seems to hit too low and Ftilt just straight up doesn't work. If it does, then it's very, very difficult to do.

 

[BJN39]

Yeah, none of her magic normals can clank at all, aside the last hit of Usmash, which is a very unusual and possibly unintentional design.

 

[Gay Ginger]

I think ZSS is one of our worst MUs.

She out-ranges us, has no lag, has amazing mobility, and has good KO power.

Her d-smash can combo into aerials, and if we were near a ledge, a meteor.

We'll never get close enough to land the Elevator unless they really **** up, and it can be DI'd any way.

Luckily now our smash attacks connect reliably, but landing a fsmash is still really hard if they're playing it safe.

Reflecting paralyzer is pointless because most of the time unless it was at point blank, Zelda is too slow to take advantage of the stun.

Zelda is completely out-classed in basically everything in this MU.

It's at least a 30:70, maybe verging on 25:75 (pre-patch I would have said 25:75 for sure).

 

[DoctorDub]

It's at least a 30:70, maybe verging on 25:75 (pre-patch I would have said 25:75 for sure).

Really? I'm not so sure about that. I can see maybe giving it a 30:70 at the very most. 25:75 just doesn't sit right with me.

 

[Gay Ginger]

Really? I'm not so sure about that. I can see maybe giving it a 30:70 at the very most. 25:75 just doesn't sit right with me.

Maybe 25:75 is too much post-patch, but 35:65 seems too low.

ZSS has us beat at every single aspect of the MU: mobility, safety of attacks, combo/strings and ability to rack damage, range, KO potential (we have more KO power but it's unlikely we'll get a chance to use it), etc.

Our recovery is better, but edge-guarding ZSS isn't easy.

We have to make hard reads to accomplish anything. ZSS can force us to approach and punish us so easily.

30:70 seems fair.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Zamus in many ways is basically sheik with the ability to Ko and a little more complexity. Similar evils just different colors.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

B-b-but they're both light blue...