Meta Rosalina Match-Up Analysis R2 - Cloud

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Rosalina Match-Up Analysis R2 - Cloud

Welcome to the Rosalina vs. Cloud match-up analysis thread. This thread will be used to analyze Rosalina's match-up against Cloud. For all the rules on the round 2 match-up discussions, please refer to the directory thread.

Cloud does not have any custom special moves. However, he can still face fighters who do have custom special moves to use. As a result, if Rosalina is using her custom special moves against Cloud, the match should be treated as a "Default + Custom" scenario.

Last Updated: 10/2/2016

Special Moves Allowed| |
Default only | | -1 - -0.5
Default + Custom | | N/A

Spoiler: Score Inputs

Default only
Ethan7: ±0
Lange: -2
mario123007: +2
Royug: -3 - -2

Default + Custom

 

[mario123007]

Being one of my DLC mains, and probably the 5th sword fighter I use. Cloud has some upper hand than Rosalina, such as his most attack has quick start up, decent range, and not mention the limit break. However, Cloud's biggest disadvantage has to be his recovery. Just as long Rosalina can get Cloud off the stage, then it's pretty sure that Rosalina has the upper hand.

I get +2 for this MU. Default.

 

[Royug]

This is definitely one of Rosalina's worst match-up in my opinion, and I've heard this from a lot of other people too. Sure, Cloud as a bad recovery, but it's not so easy to abuse with Rosalina. Sure, you can easily spike him with D-air if he recovers low, but if he recovers high it's a lot harder, he can use his Up-B over the ledge to protect himself with the attack and grab the ledge pretty safely. You can also try to go gimp him offstage, but Rosa's aerials are a bit slow so it's not as easy as with other characters.

The reason why Cloud is a bad MU though is because he dominates in neutral. He has a lot of moves with fast, powerful and huge disjoints that are really good to hurt and kill Luma quickly. Heck, even his jab puts Luma in tumble and can kill him near the ledge. So Luma is always dead, but Cloud's Limit Break is also ALWAYS fully charged, since it fills when he deals damage to Rosalina BUT also to Luma. Also, when he knocks you offstage or in the air, this always give him a lot of time to charge his Limit, since Rosa is so light and floaty it takes her forever to get back on stage.

Speaking of offstage, Cloud is also not bad at edgeguarding Rosalina. If you recover low with Up-B, he can go offstage and spike/stage-spike you with a D-air, hit you with a N-air, or stay on stage and deny you the ledge by simply sliding on it with D-tilt. If you recover high and he reads it, he can U-smash or Limit Side-B you and you're dead.

Cloud also limits the use of one of Rosa's best move : her U-air. It's really hard to juggle Cloud with U-air like any other character since he can use his D-air, which has a lot of range. It's like one huge disjoint VS another huge disjoint, and most of the time the attacks will trade (Rosa suffering more damage than Cloud), and even sometimes only Rosa will get hit. I've been killed once because I tried to hit Cloud wiht my U-air, but he used his D-air and it knocked me upward to the blastzone. So you really can't use U-air a lot in the MU, you have to rely more on U-tilt (which surprisingly always beats D-air) or other things like shield-grab to punish his landing. It can still be hard though, if Cloud autocancels his D-air.

Imo this is -2.5for Rosa with default moves.

 

[ChikoLad]

This might be useful for you Rosalina mains. Pretty good anti-Cloud tech.

A lot of Cloud players will recover to the ledge using his Up-B from above and grab onto the ledge or land on it. This is normally pretty much impossible to punish for any character in the game.

However, by powershielding the Up-B on it's way down, and attacking with a character's fastest move right after, some characters are capable of hitting Cloud out of the Up B before he can grab the ledge. Doing so knocks Cloud away from the stage, and since Cloud will only be doing this in most situations after using his double jump already, and since his regular Up B only goes straight up and has no horizontal distance, this pretty much ends badly for Cloud. Depending on how far he gets knocked back, Cloud will either be put into an incredibly disadvantageous position where he can easily spiked or knocked even further off stage, or if he's at a higher percent, he will be knocked too far out to recover at all to begin with.

Rosalina is a special case, in that she cannot do this without Luma, but can with Luma. If Cloud hits Luma while Rosalina is doing the Power Shielding, the resulting hit lag that Cloud sustains from hitting Luma, gives Rosalina enough time to retaliate with either her Down Tilt or her Down Smash.

Even at low percents (I'd say around 20% - 30%, also depends on how Rosalina's Rage is), Rosalina's Down Smash would easily be enough on it's own to knock Cloud far enough away for him to not be able to recover from this even without further interference from Rosalina. So while she needs Luma for it, she is able to get a particularly powerful move in to not even require chasing him down further.

 

[Royug]

Rosalina is a special case, in that she cannot do this without Luma, but can with Luma. If Cloud hits Luma while Rosalina is doing the Power Shielding, the resulting hit lag that Cloud sustains from hitting Luma, gives Rosalina enough time to retaliate with either her Down Tilt or her Down Smash.

Even at low percents (I'd say around 20% - 30%, also depends on how Rosalina's Rage is), Rosalina's Down Smash would easily be enough on it's own to knock Cloud far enough away for him to not be able to recover from this even without further interference from Rosalina. So while she needs Luma for it, she is able to get a particularly powerful move in to not even require chasing him down further.

Yep, this is a pretty good trick to know against Cloud. I tested some stuff with other Rosa mains and we found out that, in addition to D-tilt and D-smash, you can also hit Cloud with Rosa's jab, which is better than D-tilt because the knockback on the multi-jab finisher is bigger. You can even grab Cloud ! I believe Rosa is the only character that can shield-grab Cloud on the downward hit of his Up-B, but again you must have Luma with you. Grab is the best of all option, since you can F-throw him away or even better, simply air-release him (because there's still a risk that the hit Cloud receives from the F-throw allows him to finish charging his Limit Break and get back on stage with a Limit up-B). But you have to be careful with grab, because if you're not at the very edge of the stage when you grab Cloud, he might be ground-released (if you try the release) or get back his second jump because he touched the ground while grabbed). But the advantage with grab is that you don't have to powershield, it works with a normal shield too since you can grab out of shield without being affected by shield drop lag.

So grab into F-throw or air-release guarantees a kill starting at 0%.
Jab guarantees a kill starting at 20% (without rage)
D-tilt at 40-45% (without rage)

I haven't been able to test D-smash though, it's really hard to do, you have to be like frame perfect. Not a good option in my opinion.

 

[ChikoLad]

Yep, this is a pretty good trick to know against Cloud. I tested some stuff with other Rosa mains and we found out that, in addition to D-tilt and D-smash, you can also hit Cloud with Rosa's jab, which is better than D-tilt because the knockback on the multi-jab finisher is bigger. You can even grab Cloud ! I believe Rosa is the only character that can shield-grab Cloud on the downward hit of his Up-B, but again you must have Luma with you. Grab is the best of all option, since you can F-throw him away or even better, simply air-release him (because there's still a risk that the hit Cloud receives from the F-throw allows him to finish charging his Limit Break and get back on stage with a Limit up-B). But you have to be careful with grab, because if you're not at the very edge of the stage when you grab Cloud, he might be ground-released (if you try the release) or get back his second jump because he touched the ground while grabbed). But the advantage with grab is that you don't have to powershield, it works with a normal shield too since you can grab out of shield without being affected by shield drop lag.

So grab into F-throw or air-release guarantees a kill starting at 0%.
Jab guarantees a kill starting at 20% (without rage)
D-tilt at 40-45% (without rage)

I haven't been able to test D-smash though, it's really hard to do, you have to be like frame perfect. Not a good option in my opinion.

D-Smash is the best option, but the hardest to execute, in my opinion. A lot of characters have some pretty tough to execute options in this situation though. That's generally how these things go. If you can train yourself to do it pretty consistently then I would say go for the D-Smash.

That grab option sounds like it's about as good as D-Smash though, just with different risks.

 

[Ethan7]

Hi, I mainly play Diddy Kong but also have experience with Rosalina & Luma as I used to play them.

Rosalina & Luma have a lot of trouble in this match-up. They have trouble with swords in general and Cloud can knock Luma in the air easily with moves like dash attack and d-tilt. He can continue to hit Luma with u-air and u-tilt untill it dies. Of course, Rosalina can intervene so Cloud may want to use his n-air or b-air to get it offstage. Cloud's early d-air can beat Rosa's u-air or at least before the halo rises, which is when the sweetspot is active..

Rosa also has no hitbox in her up special so he can hit her offstage quite easily. She can, however, use aerials with Luma during up-b, but it is quite hard to hit opponents with that. They can gimp him with their effective aerials, but so can he. B-throw to fair is a good way to get Cloud offstage at low percentages, which can be a very bad position for Cloud, of course. F-smash can be angled down to hit him with Luma while hanging on the ledge.

Rosa wants to be defensive and stall when Luma is gone, but this gives Cloud time to charge limit, which isn't good for Rosa.

Most people agree this is one of their hardest match-ups, including Dabuz. I'll put -2 as a disadvantage for Rosalina & Luma.

 

[Ethan7]

I'd like to change to 0 (or just not have my score up at all). I'm don't really know about the match-up since results may say the opposite and that she can take advantage that he doesn't auto-snap to the ledge more than a lot of characters.

 

[Lange]

This MU has been a real struggle for me any more insights? IMO -2. I mean what advantage does Rosa really have? She has some issues with disjoints in general and his long disjointed sword just pokes through Luma so it's really hard to wall him and keep him out. Just tears through, juggles the tar out of her and kills super easy. Seems like any advantages people have said here are mostly vs his recovery but that doesn't really even it out IMO.