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Meta Rosalina Match-Up Analysis R2 - Mewtwo

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Rosalina Match-Up Analysis R2 - Mewtwo


Welcome to the Rosalina vs. Mewtwo match-up analysis thread. This thread will be used to analyze Rosalina's match-up against Mewtwo. For all the rules on the round 2 match-up discussions, please refer to the directory thread.

Mewtwo does not have any custom special moves. However, it can still face fighters who do have custom special moves to use. As a result, if Rosalina is using her custom special moves against Mewtwo, the match should be treated as a "Default + Custom" scenario.

Last Updated: 9/13/2015
Special Moves Allowed| | :4mewtwo:
Default only | :rosalina: | +1 - +1.5
Default + Custom | :rosalina: | +0.5
Default only
AlMoStLeGeNdArY: +2 - +3
meleebrawler: ±0

Default + Custom
meleebrawler: ±0 - +1
 

meleebrawler

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As Rosalina it can be pretty easy to underestimate Mewtwo. He's a big target and can die pretty early to a good Luma smash or uair, not to mention he is easily outranged with Luma out like most characters.

However, he has some unexpectedly good tools to help deal with the little star, the most unassuming one being uncharged shadow balls. They easily chip away at Luma's health until he can be launched by a safe move like Mewtwo's dtilt, and if Rosalina tries to pull them when Mewtwo is too close he can easily punish with a dash attack, which will also send Luma flying easily. He can also use his down throw to hit Luma if he grabs Rosa with him around.

Due to Rosalina's height, Mewtwo can use short-hopped nairs to good effect against her, not to mention easier surprise shadow claws or dairs.

With Luma around Confusion is hard to use without Luma retaliating, and it is very hard for him to land a Disable since Luma will usually take the hit, and even if he doesn't he can still freely attack while Rosalina is stunned. Without him, the two characters have comparable reach but Mewtwo hits harder with both more powerful moves and better combo ability, attacking Mewtwo following a Confusion becomes very risky leaving jumping away as the best option, and disable can severely punish a whiffed move.

Offstage, it is very difficult to edge guard Mewtwo if the player knows what they're doing since Mewtwo has many options to recover with and evade attacks. Jumping out to meet him at the side will usually result in him teleporting past you, and his big second jump coupled with his good airdodge give him better mixup potential on the ledge than most would have you believe. On the flip side, Mewtwo can go extremely deep to edgeguard and is very good at exploiting the lack of a hitbox on Launch Star with his nair.

Finally, Mewtwo has surprisingly good mobility on both the ground and the air which, coupled with his Confusion jump, good airdodge and teleport, help him avoid engagements with Rosaluma that would normally leave him at a disadvantage. It also helps him reset to neutral more easily.

With defaults this is most likely even since it mostly comes down to who is more patient and makes less mistakes, and Rosalina doesn't really die that much later compared to Mewtwo, especially since she is a slow faller and Mewtwo's best kill moves do it off the top. In customs probably 55-45 for Rosalina since she gains Shooting Star Bit and Luma Warp that Mewtwo has to watch out for, but other than that nothing that drastically changes the game.
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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+2 Rosalina maybe +3. Default only.

Mewtwo has nothing that Rosalina struggles with.
 
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AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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Sorry, but you really need to explain why the match-up favors Rosalina. Until then, your score input is disqualified.
What does Rosalina struggle with? Does mewtwo have any of those traits? Sorry if you or anyone else doesn't get it but it's more than enough.
 
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meleebrawler

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What does Rosalina struggle with? Does mewtwo have any of those traurs? Sorry if you or anyone else doesn't get it but it's more than enough.
Well I certainly don't get what a 'traur' is. Anyway your posts seem to just boil down to "durr hurr Mewtwo can't win 'cuz he's low tier and Rosalina is top".

The thing is Mewtwo is quite capable of exerting his Pressure on Rosaluma thanks to his low endlag shadow balls.
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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Well I certainly don't get what a 'traur' is. Anyway your posts seem to just boil down to "durr hurr Mewtwo can't win 'cuz he's low tier and Rosalina is top".

The thing is Mewtwo is quite capable of exerting his Pressure on Rosaluma thanks to his low endlag shadow balls.
I meant traits and considering we have a high level example of the MU I'll just leave that here.

https://youtu.be/-y-J9XXL9iY

Shadowball doesn't pressure Rosalina. In order to pressure Rosalina with a projectile you need to be able to follow the projectile and punish gravitational pull. Mewtwo can't do that. Please stop it with the bad theorycraft it's sad.
 

meleebrawler

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I meant traits and considering we have a high level example of the MU I'll just leave that here.

https://youtu.be/-y-J9XXL9iY

Shadowball doesn't pressure Rosalina. In order to pressure Rosalina with a projectile you need to be able to follow the projectile and punish gravitational pull. Mewtwo can't do that. Please stop it with the bad theorycraft it's sad.
Um yes he can, provided he's close enough. The ideal distance for doing this leaves him outside the reach of most of Rosaluma's attacks and leaves enough time for him to react to a dash attack.

If the matchup is as bad as you say for Mewtwo, shouldn't iiGGY have easily two-stocked Mew^2? Because the video certainly doesn't make the matchup look THAT bad. All I see is a Mewtwo that, although is very skilled, played more aggressively than he should have, failed to respect Rosaluma's range as a result and thusly paid the price.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Shadowball doesn't pressure Rosalina. In order to pressure Rosalina with a projectile you need to be able to follow the projectile and punish gravitational pull. Mewtwo can't do that. Please stop it with the bad theorycraft it's sad.
Okay, please try not to stir up an unneeded argument. The sentence that I colored red was unwarranted.
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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Okay, please try not to stir up an unneeded argument. The sentence that I colored red was unwarranted.
Na it's needed.

@ meleebrawler meleebrawler shadowball pushes mewtwo backwards. So I'm not really sure what you're talking bout. If you're talking baby shadowball luna can just jab or dtilt them and that move isn't safe on hit depending on how close you are. So ince again I fail to see what you're talking about. Just because a MU is bad doesn't mean the other person is always going to get 2 stocked...that logic...
 

meleebrawler

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Na it's needed.

@ meleebrawler meleebrawler shadowball pushes mewtwo backwards. So I'm not really sure what you're talking bout. If you're talking baby shadowball luna can just jab or dtilt them and that move isn't safe on hit depending on how close you are. So ince again I fail to see what you're talking about. Just because a MU is bad doesn't mean the other person is always going to get 2 stocked...that logic...
If luma jabs them I'll just keep throwing balls until he moves far enough away that Mewtwo can hit and combo Luma without Rosalina interfering, and if he dtilts I'll simply vary the timing and punish whiffs. The only type of ball that gives noticeable pushback on the ground are full or nearly-fully charged balls.

You said the matchup is +2, which means that Rosalina wins easily unless Mewtwo is vastly more skilled, or even +3 which basically implies she can beat him in her sleep. So is Mew^2 more skilled?
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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If luma jabs them I'll just keep throwing balls until he moves far enough away that Mewtwo can hit and combo Luma without Rosalina interfering, and if he dtilts I'll simply vary the timing and punish whiffs. The only type of ball that gives noticeable pushback on the ground are full or nearly-fully charged balls.

You said the matchup is +2, which means that Rosalina wins easily unless Mewtwo is vastly more skilled, or even +3 which basically implies she can beat him in her sleep. So is Mew^2 more skilled?
By numbers I'll say it's 65:35 or 7-3 in Rosalina favor. Truthfully, the only thing mewtwo can take advantage of in this MU is Rosalina recovery. But yeah man shadow ball mewtwo best move is virtually useless in the mu. I've covered every single thibg Rosalina can do to get rid of shadow ball. I also pointed out due to the nature of shadow ball he can't follow it and push pull. This is extremely important. But nevertheless all that is lost on you.

Also just because you have a bad MU doesn't mean it's unwinnable or that you're going to get destroyed every match.
 

meleebrawler

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By numbers I'll say it's 65:35 or 7-3 in Rosalina favor. Truthfully, the only thing mewtwo can take advantage of in this MU is Rosalina recovery. But yeah man shadow ball mewtwo best move is virtually useless in the mu. I've covered every single thibg Rosalina can do to get rid of shadow ball. I also pointed out due to the nature of shadow ball he can't follow it and push pull. This is extremely important. But nevertheless all that is lost on you.

Also just because you have a bad MU doesn't mean it's unwinnable or that you're going to get destroyed every match.
Fine, I can see that talking is getting us nowhere. So how about we do this matchup right now and put our "theories" to the test then?

You mentioned your counterplay, I mentioned my counterplay to yours. It's simple. Oh and I forgot to mention that Mewtwo can just charge the ball a bit to render clanking moot.
 
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AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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Fine, I can see that talking is getting us nowhere. So how about we do this matchup right now and put our "theories" to the test then?
I'm at work ^_^ and you go to bed early...

There's some strong Rosalina in anther's ladder. Play them and tell me how it goes.
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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Regardless of what happens, all that matters in the end is the overall average that I get after adding up all the score inputs that are made.
 

meleebrawler

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I think the only true punishes you got were the drop off fair. Everything else I could've just rolled away from.
My point is GP does not completely invalidate shadow ball, meaning Rosa can't just sit there and let Mewtwo make a move that'll get him punished, otherwise he can get in a position where GP will be. I'm sure you noticed it at least, you shielded instead of GPing whenever I got closer. Though if I had known you'd be so aggressive I probably wouldn't have used it as much.
 
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AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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My point is GP does not completely invalidate shadow ball, meaning Rosa can't just sit there and let Mewtwo make a move that'll get him punished, otherwise he can get in a position where GP will be. I'm sure you noticed it at least, you shielded instead of GPing whenever I got closer. Though if I had known you'd be so aggressive I probably wouldn't have used it as much.
I tend to play more aggressive against characters I don't see as a threat.

One thing I learned during our matches is uthrow animation is so long luma can hit mewtwo before the throw is complete. Luma can also hit him out of fthrow.
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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Mewtwo is being analyzed again for this week. If you have anything to contribute for the match-up, especially in regards to the newest software update, this is the place to do it.
 

C3CC

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I'm no expert, so I can't give numbers or anything, just some facts from experience, as I main both Rosalina and Mewtwo.

People here should consider that if Mewtwo manages to get past Luma (or if Luma is gone) it's pretty easy for Mewtwo to land his Up Smash when he's right next to Rosalina, because she's absurdly tall. Given Rosalina's low weight, and Mewtwo's Up Smash's high knockback, he could kill her at 90% (maybe even sooner, I don't know). She should especially watch out for this move if Mewtwo has rage.
 

meleebrawler

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Not too much has changed really, Mewtwo just has a bit easier of a time spacing himself and punishing careless Gravitational Pulls.
 

E-Mann

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As Rosalina it can be pretty easy to underestimate Mewtwo. He's a big target and can die pretty early to a good Luma smash or uair, not to mention he is easily outranged with Luma out like most characters.

However, he has some unexpectedly good tools to help deal with the little star, the most unassuming one being uncharged shadow balls. They easily chip away at Luma's health until he can be launched by a safe move like Mewtwo's dtilt, and if Rosalina tries to pull them when Mewtwo is too close he can easily punish with a dash attack, which will also send Luma flying easily. He can also use his down throw to hit Luma if he grabs Rosa with him around.

Due to Rosalina's height, Mewtwo can use short-hopped nairs to good effect against her, not to mention easier surprise shadow claws or dairs.

With Luma around Confusion is hard to use without Luma retaliating, and it is very hard for him to land a Disable since Luma will usually take the hit, and even if he doesn't he can still freely attack while Rosalina is stunned. Without him, the two characters have comparable reach but Mewtwo hits harder with both more powerful moves and better combo ability, attacking Mewtwo following a Confusion becomes very risky leaving jumping away as the best option, and disable can severely punish a whiffed move.

Offstage, it is very difficult to edge guard Mewtwo if the player knows what they're doing since Mewtwo has many options to recover with and evade attacks. Jumping out to meet him at the side will usually result in him teleporting past you, and his big second jump coupled with his good airdodge give him better mixup potential on the ledge than most would have you believe. On the flip side, Mewtwo can go extremely deep to edgeguard and is very good at exploiting the lack of a hitbox on Launch Star with his nair.

Finally, Mewtwo has surprisingly good mobility on both the ground and the air which, coupled with his Confusion jump, good airdodge and teleport, help him avoid engagements with Rosaluma that would normally leave him at a disadvantage. It also helps him reset to neutral more easily.

With defaults this is most likely even since it mostly comes down to who is more patient and makes less mistakes, and Rosalina doesn't really die that much later compared to Mewtwo, especially since she is a slow faller and Mewtwo's best kill moves do it off the top. In customs probably 55-45 for Rosalina since she gains Shooting Star Bit and Luma Warp that Mewtwo has to watch out for, but other than that nothing that drastically changes the game.
I have a feeling the reason why she has these certain unfavorable match-ups against certain characters is pretty much attributed to her massive size and very light weight.
 
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