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Meta Rosalina Match-Up Analysis R2 - Greninja

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Rosalina Match-Up Analysis R2 - Greninja


Welcome to the Rosalina vs. Greninja match-up analysis thread. This thread will be used to analyze Rosalina's match-up against Greninja. For all the rules on the round 2 match-up discussions, please refer to the directory thread.

Last Updated: 4/10/2016
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FullMoon

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The match-up seems to be pretty even. Greninja can kill Rosalina really quickly if she's not careful and he does have plenty of kill setups on him, but he can't do too much while Luma is still there, fortunately he has very good tools for dispatching of Luma like B-Air, Dash Attack and even F-Air and F-Smash granted that Luma got some damage prior to being hit by them.

We can't camp Rosalina because of Luma and GP and we still shouldn't even if she does lose Luma. Without Luma she's much easier for us to deal with and she's gonna have a rougher time running away because of our speed. Greninja can be juggled by her thanks to his fall speed but Rosalina can be juggled as well because of her floaty physics, especially if she doesn't have Luma.

Hydro Pump can also make Rosalina fly over the stage during her recovery, leaving her open for a punish such as Up-Smash (which can kill her as low as 75% without rage)

In customs, it's still even. Shifting Shuriken pierces Luma but Rosalina can still GP it, if it does hit Luma she gets pulled towards us as well, which allows us to get of it. Of course, Rosalina being hit by the shuriken is also going to result into her flying into an Up-Smash. Rosalina also benefits from Luma Warp and Shooting Starbit, but those don't change the MU very drastically, Luma Warp having a big deadzone could even prove harmful for her in the longrun.

So, even for both metas. I've played Dabuz before and that was the feel I got, even though he's a much better player than me. Dabuz vs aMSa in EVO also came down to last hit situations in both games they played so that all seems to add up for an even MU.
 

Ludiloco

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Hello. This is a matchup I'm pretty well versed in so I'll offer a little input.

I feel the matchup is pretty even, Rosalina has good tools to wall out Greninja when Luma is around but Greninja has good tools to eliminate Luma. Rosalina is approaching in this matchup because GP is not fast enough to eat all of Greninja's new, faster shurikens.. however Greninja can be punished by getting too spam happy with these, as they are only really good for some chip damage on Luma to ensure it is knocked away when hit with another move. Since Rosalina won't be getting hit by them, it's easy to run in and punish a shuriken-happy Greninja. At mid range be cautious of GP, because Greninja is fast enough to punish it most of the time. Sometimes it's better to just block the shuriken if he charges it.

Another thing of note is Greninja does not have a throw to get rid of Luma. If he grabs you while Luma is around you can punish his attempt to up throw -> up air you by calling Luma in mid air. A smart Greninja player will wait and block this though, and Rosalina being above Greninja is incredibly dangerous for her (as it is in many matchups). So, still expect to be thrown upward.

Greninja's tools to get rid of Luma consist of his jab, ftilt/dtilt, smash attacks (which is not always a bad option since Luma extends the hitbox and can snuff out an early punish attempt), and his best two are dash attack and short hop fair/nair. Dash attack has poor range but pops Luma up and away, often off the stage. If Rosalina is recovering dash attack -> fair is a true combo that will get rid of Luma almost every time. It also has low endlag, and Greninja can often get out jabs to beat punishes if spaced well. Greninja's best tools in this matchup are without a doubt ff nair and fair. FF nair when spaced well lands between Rosa and Luma and separates them. If it hits Rosa she is popped up for easy followups such as up smash or fair. If she blocks it, the attack has some shield pushback that prevents a heavy punish. She can potentially shield grab this, but without Luma being grabbed isn't nearly as threatening. Fast fall Fair is even better and safer, and knocks Luma for heavy knockback while being very hard to punish on block or dodge. Greninja will be using these two aerials in neutral a lot.

These two characters juggle each other like crazy. Greninja is a light fast faller, which means Rosalina can juggle him with relative ease with up air. Because Greninja's jump is so high however, most Greninja players will choose to jump instead of pick an air dodge. If you catch his jump with up air he is going to take a lot of damage or lose his stock, but Rosalina struggles to get up that high most of the time. However, Greninja lacks a quick response aerial outside of bair (which he has to be in position for) so he cannot really punish whiffed aerials when he is also in the air. On the polar end, Greninja also loves to juggle Rosalina at early %. Up air beats out a lot of moves with slower startup, and his up smash at worst will trade with Rosalina dair and can KO around 80. Do not challenge it.

Edge guarding is pretty even, but Greninja has the ability to mix up his recovery much more than Rosalina, and in this matchup will need to if he wants to stay alive. Rosalina can easily intercept him with dair or place Luma below the edge to catch low recoveries, and use up air/up smash to catch him if he misreads and goes high. On the opposite end, Hydro pump really messes with Rosalina's up special recoveries and can often cost her a stock. If Rosalina recovers high she's going to get hit with something heavy anyway, Greninja will not be chasing you offstage very often due to most of his aerials being poor for edge guards (you will have to watch for RAR bair though). Shadow sneak is a decent mixup offstage due to how hard it can be to see coming, but the risk is often not worth it. Just keep it in mind.

And with that novel written I think I'm starting to run out of things to say. Greninja's mobility and great juggle game help him dance around Rosalina and keep her airborne, but Rosalina has the ability to juggle Greninja right back and has a safer neutral. At worst I think this is 55:45 Rosa's favor but I will submit 50:50. It feels the stronger player will win out in this matchup more often than not.
 

Jonarobin

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I also main Greninja, and I'd have to say I agree with the above posts. Though Rosalina is honestly a self-counter matchup for me because I'm a little too offensive and predictable I think, but if I play smartly enough I beat her.

So I'd probably say 50:50 or 55:45 to Rosa like ludiloco said.
 

Ludiloco

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Without customs. Greninja doesn't really get a ton better with customs, shifting shuriken is kind of a trade off. I don't see Luma Warp or the star bit shot changing the matchup a ton, though.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Greninja is being analyzed again for this week. If you have anything to contribute for the match-up, especially in regards to the newest software update, this is the place to do it.
 

bc1910

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I don't think much has changed with this MU. I'd have said even before, and I'm more sure of that with Greninja's buffs. Your landing aerials are a little less safe on shield with our new grab and Greninja can space better in neutral, but nothing gamechanging has occurred.

Something to bear in mind if any of you watched Pound - You know the way Abadango was constantly knocking Luma away at any percent with MK's Fair? Greninja can do the same thing with Bair, and the recent LL buff makes that a safer option than it used to be (it also has less LL than MK's Fair). Dash attack also got faster startup and launches Luma at 0%, although it sometimes whiffs under her so it's not that reliable.
 

Lawliet626

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Personally think its even for already stated reasons
Something i would like to see is the rosalinas giving their point of view of this MU here since im only seeing Greninjas giving their input and the rosa board just going along with it, doesnt feel like its so much discussion.
 
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