• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Meta Rosalina Match-Up Analysis R2 - Pikachu

Mario & Sonic Guy

Old rivalries live on!
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
22,423
Location
Mushroom Kingdom
NNID
TPitch5
3DS FC
5327-1637-5096
Rosalina Match-Up Analysis R2 - Pikachu


Welcome to the Rosalina vs. Pikachu match-up analysis thread. This thread will be used to analyze Rosalina's match-up against Pikachu. For all the rules on the round 2 match-up discussions, please refer to the directory thread.

Last Updated: 11/22/2015
Special Moves Allowed| | :4pikachu:
Default only | :rosalina: | -1.5 - -1
Default + Custom | :rosalina: | ±0
Default only
Kaishin: -2 - -1
Lange: -1
Robopuppyz: -1
Underhill: -2 - -1

Default + Custom
Underhill: ±0
 

ParanoidDrone

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Messages
4,335
Location
Baton Rouge, LA
Funny thing you can do to Pikachu: Gravitational Pull their Thunder when offstage. He depends on the bolt hitting him in midair to stop him from falling too much, but if you absorb it they keep falling in that really laggy animation he does when calling the bolt down. This leads to some really funny deaths. Well, funny for us anyway.
 

Underhill

Smash Ace
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
832
NNID
Chase47
Well I main both of them and played both Rosalina players and Pikachu players; So I'll share my knowledge about the MU.

:4pikachu:: This little yellow is small and fast. He'll play aggressive and give you no space what so ever. He has no problems approaching Rosalina and can use QA to get in your face and even start up combos with it. Rosalina is tall so she's a large target for combos and she can get pressured easily. D-air, QA, forward smash, and dash attack can help split both of them up and get luma off stage along with a set up of f-airs if you get hit. Pikachu can jiggle you and give you a hard time landing since he's fast along with QA and Rosalina's landing options aren't safe because she's floaty. His frame data is better, too. Gravitational Pull may help against Pikachu's jolts if he decides to camp, but be careful using it because it can get baited and he's fast enough to punish you for it. Pikachu's edgeguard game can be a hugh problem for Rosalina since her recovery has no hitbox at all. Because of that, Pikachu can gimp her easily for stage spikes with b-airs and f-airs, and get rid of Luma while she's recovering with his f-airs. n-air can come as a kill off-stage as well against her Launch Star.

:rosalina:: Now for her. Since Pikachu's range is low like Mario's, you can out-space and out-range him with your tiles(down-tile mostly). Use lunar Landings to land safely, space, mindgame, and to even get a combo if possible. Having Pikachu on top of Rosalina is a good thing because her up-airs can be a threat to him since he's light and doesn't have any air attacks that don't have enough range to get out of it. Plus, if you do the three jab hit and follow his di and read the air dodge, then you can get him in the air and start jiggling him. Also, she can use her up-airs get early kills and frame trap him if possible. Up-tile can serve as a anti-air move against Pikachu; But up-smash, I'm not sure about it being anti-air against Pikachu because it may trade, even with Luma unless Pikachu is on high percent for him to die off from her up-smash. B-air beats Pikachu's f-airs because of it's range. Its very difficult to gimp and ledgeguard against good Pikachu because of his QA to mix up his recovery; However, if you read the skull bash and he's at high percent, then you get a free down-air to spike him down or with Luma's hitbox if hit to kill him off-stage. If you see Pikachu trying to go for thunder gimp, then this is your chance to use Gravitational Pull to not only protect yourself, but screw Pikachu over as well for a stage spike if he doesn't tech. Rosalina's kill options are better slighty because Pikachu has trouble killing more tham you do and rage may help her with Luma as well. Just don't force in your kills because Pikachu will punish you and her smash attacks aren't as safe as his.

Customs: Shooting star bit can help more in this MU than the default since its a projectile and she can use it to keep Pikachu out and harass him to force him to make a mistake. Guardian Luma can help for spacing, used as a surprise attack, and protect her as well from incoming attacks with Luma. Teleport Luma for kill set ups and mindgames. Pikachu will use Heavy skull bash as a extra kill option and the other custom jolt for set-ups.

Stages: Delfino Plaza and Helberb, this can help Rosalina get early verical kills with her up-airs, up-throw, and up-smash because of the low ceiling. Also, she can use platforms to jiggle more as well. As for Pikachu, he can not only use platforms for his recovery, but can also use them to ledge cancel with his QA to escape pressure, have stage control, and for mindgames. Plus, he can get extra combos off of platforms and pressure her as well. With Battlefield, same as the other two stages, but with less space and more blastzone for both of them to live longer with di. Dreamland however, the wind can create problems for Rosalina with her recovery. Lylat Cruise will be her worst stage because the stage is moving and it can create problems for her while she's recovering and may miss the ledge. Also Pikachu can use the QA to cancel with no landing lag from the platforms.

MU: -1.5 for :4pikachu:in defaults. Customs 0 which is even for both of them.
 

Underhill

Smash Ace
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
832
NNID
Chase47
@ Underhill Underhill : Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're basically saying that the match favors Pikachu in the default only matches. Am I right?
Yes. Default is -1.5 for Pikachu and while with customs, its 0(or even) for both Rosalina and Pikachu. Sorry if its too confusing for you.
 
Last edited:

alexthepony

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 23, 2015
Messages
189
so which moves separate luma?
like when luma is at

fresh percent
mid percent

Maybe fair, dair, nair, qa, dash attack,(maybe more) separate luma, so what seperate uma at fresh or mid percent?
 

Robopuppyz

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 8, 2015
Messages
16
Location
Isle Delfino
NNID
ZacharyCA
3DS FC
3566-1663-4299
I feel rosa has a small disadvantage when dealing with Pikachu. Because of his small height, he can be hard to hit for the rosa, also his air mobility let's him slip out of up air strings. It's not all bad, rosa can gravitational pull his thunder jolts and off stage thunders, but Pikachu still has the slight advantage in the matchup. ( in my opinion at least )
 

Lange

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
227
Location
Wyoming USA
-1 or like 57.5-42.5 Pikas favor. He can be insane to punish and get in on and you have to wait till he does just the right thing to get in and strike and play very defensive otherwise he will walk all over you. I think of it as better than the Sheik MU but same kind of challenges and disadvantages apply, just Pika is not quite as safe and unpunishable. Is manageable to fight against him though but Rosa is somewhat disadvantaged in the MU. You wont be shield grabbing much what seems like shieldgrabable moves, and he can get past luma pretty easy in Neutral. Key to winning is just playing safe enough and getting the hits when you can and being extremely patient.
 

Kaishin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 22, 2014
Messages
79
This MU is -1.5 without customs. It's not a full counter like Meta Knight. I've taken sets off of equally skilled Pikachus and Buns has beaten ESAM before. But this matchup is way too difficult for a soft counter rating to do it justice.

I have no clue what the MU is with customs.

Anyway, this MU is dumb. All of Pikachu's options are incredibly safe and his mixup options are frightening and often almost completely unpredictable due to, in addition to all of his safe aerials, his incredibly fast up b that allows him to move twice and has very, very little endlag even when it isn't cancelled. It's lag is virtually nonexistent when it is. Of course I should expect one of the only chars to currently be considered even with Sheik to dominate this MU.

First off, I hope Lylat gets banned because that stage is basically an autowin for Pikachu in just about any matchup, let alone this one. ESAM can probably attest to this.

Anyway, to the matchup!

- Pikachu completely dominates neutral thanks to a projectile that can only be punished with a dash attack out of well-timed gravity pull. If the Pikachu knows how to space, this simply isn't happening. Besides that he has a very difficult to punish quick attack and his aerials, especially due to the increased shieldstun, are extremely safe on shield. His neutral is absolutely frightening for the same reasons as Sheik, except his aerials are also extremely varied and many of them knock away Luma.

- Pikachu's shield pressure is insane thanks to his low lag aerials, especially considering he can easily aerial behind us and then respond with an up tilt before we can do anything (with one exception). Our OoS is noticeably poor (probably worst or second worst behind ZSS amongst all of the top tiers) and I am NOT about to nair out of shield to hit a target behind me that could potentially evade and kill me with a usmash. Ridiculous.

- Quick Attack is overpowered. It combos into a lot of stuff, allows him to get out of a lot of stuff, and if the opponent isn't being dumb, it's a free recovery and a free way to get back onto the stage and get stage control.

- His killing options are much more limited, having virtually none when onstage and in the air. However, his grounded killing options are so good this is barely an issue. He can kill off of a grab and the window is so hard to react to. In addition his small size combined with his surprisingly large usmash range makes it very difficult to space around and its quick speed makes it a really nice punish.

- His punishes hurt so bad. Uthrow to thunder and usmash both kill around 100ish. God forbid you have to recover against him either, since that's basically a free 20 damage. You can't recover high too often either, since Thunder will spike you to your death.

- By far the most insulting part about fighting Pikachu is how if he's next to you in the air, he basically has free rain to throw out an aerial thanks to how stupid fast they are. There are very few situations in which we can actual win in a situation like that.

He also subverts many of Rosalina's biggest strengths thanks to his natural features and his moveset:

- Zoning is very difficult thanks to him being able to up b through anything that is remotely laggy. It's completely ineffective on stages with platforms since he can simply edge cancel an up b over us, or for the less tech-savvy (since edge-cancelling is not easy), simply land on a platform because of the amazing distance covered by quick attack).

- Juggles are difficult outside of the standard low-percent guaranteed combos thanks to his small size and his ability to fastfall into an aerial as a mixup, as well as his ability to simply jump away and up b to safety. His aerials also squish him against the ground during their endlag, making our usmash and grab both miss.

- Gimping and the offensive offstage game are almost impossible. Pikachu has had one of the best recoveries (in one case the best recovery) since Smash 64. There are like no options outside of a ledge trump or a hard read.

- Punishes are bleh. Similar to Meta Knight and Sheik, due to the very short amounts of endlag on all of his aerials in addition to the amount of different positionings he can have when hitting your shield with one, attempting to punish is very difficult. Unless punishing a dair itself, all aerial punishes have to be reactions too. No guessing, because dair as a mixup covers any attempted punish at anything else. To make it worse, his aerials have a similar ridiculous effect as Yoshi, dodging our grabs. He can also duck for the same effect, IIRC.

- If we're knocked off-stage for any reason, Luma dies. If he decides to fair in neutral, Luma dies. If we get taken to a stage as small as smashville, Luma dies.

Meta Knight is able to combo floaties to death for some dumb reason, but if he was designed in a way that let floaties have their primary advantage, then Pikachu would be our worst matchup.

One thing about Pikachu is that he can't score kills on-stage in the air, so don't be afraid to challenge him in the air at higher percents. At lower percents it's just free damage but with the chance we can hit an aerial, he has no reason at all to challenge us in a high-percent situation. Unless he can hit the ground and usmash, you have almost nothing to worry about here.

In fact, the best strategy in this MU is to jump in the air. It's his ground game that hurts against us, and usually his aerials only connect out of combos or if he's right next to us. But he can't be right next to us from neutral unless he runs up to us or he quick attacks us. One of them puts him right under us if we jump and the other one leaves him in special fall. If that doesn't make sense, just trust me on this. Go play some friendlies and jump around in neutral. Tell me what happens.

On another note, I've figured out why mid and mid-high-level Pikas have so much trouble with Mario despite ESAMericus saying it's even: it's because they can't just throw out unpunishable hitboxes against him. He can counter with his own free moveset.
 
Last edited:

Mario & Sonic Guy

Old rivalries live on!
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
22,423
Location
Mushroom Kingdom
NNID
TPitch5
3DS FC
5327-1637-5096
Pikachu is being analyzed again for this week. If you have anything to contribute for the match-up, especially in regards to the newest software update, this is the place to do it.
 
Top Bottom