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Meta Rosalina Match-Up Analysis R2 - King Dedede

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Rosalina Match-Up Analysis R2 - King Dedede


Welcome to the Rosalina vs. King Dedede match-up analysis thread. This thread will be used to analyze Rosalina's match-up against King Dedede. For all the rules on the round 2 match-up discussions, please refer to the directory thread.

Last Updated: 3/13/2016
Special Moves Allowed| | :4dedede:
Default only | :rosalina: | +1
Default + Custom | :rosalina: | +1
Default only
Axel311: +1
Muskrat Catcher: ±0 - +1
SalsaSavant: +1
williamsga555: +1

Default + Custom
Muskrat Catcher: +1
 

ParanoidDrone

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I prefer absorbing Gordos with Gravitational Pull instead of trying to hit them back, but that's just me. Seems less risky in general at the very least.

I've had the most success against Dedede when I play aggressive and stay in his face. His buttons are just slow in general, so he only becomes difficult when you give him the space necessary to create meaty hitbox walls. Kind of like us, actually. Except we're top tier and he...isn't.
 

SalsaSavant

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I have little matchup experience for the customs in this situation, so I will not comment on them, besides saying that...well, DDD Storm causes poor Luma to go flying for some bizarre reason, making a strong Luma Clobba'er even stronger at that. If I remember right, during the Custom Move discussion, Dedede Storm was packed specifically for this matchup.

As for default...
This is a situation where, despite tier differences, the matchup is...somewhat neutral, for the simple reason that D3 is good at clobbaing Luma. All of D3's smashes are likely to knock it off stage, and his tilts can knock it around pretty good too. And his dash attack is pretty good for it too. A smart Rosalina should play Luma safely in this matchup, perhaps not letting it get too far from her side.

An important part of this matchup is Gordo reflection. Star Bits can reflect them, the jab can reflect but it's risky...and I believe that's about it for viable reflect options. And always remember, sometimes D3 WANTS the Gordo reflected...so he can send it right back your way. But of course, this is all moot considering that Gravitational Pull is a thing. Since D3 is likely to be fairly far away when using it, there is very little risk involved is just getting rid of it the easy way. But don't expect Dedede to compensate for this with aggression. A smart D3 will either hold his ground and force you to approach, or make a very slow, safe approach from the air. Of course, if Luma is gone, he might rethink that, depending on the current situation...

Anyway, Rosalina's Dair is a great tool here. It makes some of D3's favorite combo's risky, and forces him to depend on weaker, more escapable combos. Don't be afraid to throw it out when the time is right.

Otherwise, I believe this matchup is all about spacing. D3 doesn't like people right in his face, so don't be afraid to do that! But at the same time, respect the areas RIGHT BEYOND his face, because that is where he likes you, especially if Luma is currently Clobba'd.


This has been kind of rambly, so I'm going to wrap up. You need Luma to be effective here. But he kills it quick. But when you have everything just right, D3 is combo food. Play conservatively, protect Luma, and respect D3's power and Luma clobbaing skills, but remember he needs to commit to all of his Smashes and take advantage of that. Rosie's Dair and Gravitational Field hamper him somewhat, forcing him to take safer routes to attacking, though even his safer strats can still be effective against you.

+1 :rosalina:
 
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Axel311

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There aren't any serious Rosa mains in my area so my only experience is online. So take that as you will. I also worked on Rosa to use as my co-main for about a month and then gave up because I didn't like playing the character. So I do have a good knowledge of her moveset.

Even though Dedede and Rosa are on opposite ends of the tier list this matchup is fairly even because Rosa doesn't really capitalize on Dedede's weaknesses. Rosa can't spam projectiles to capitalize on Dedede's approach issues. Rosa can't combo Dedede to hell like other high tiers like Luigi, Zero Suit and Falcon. Rosa can't really camp with luma because Dedede can kill luma so quickly with Dsmash, Fsmash, Dash attack, ect.

Rosa wins neutral though. She does outspace Dedede with luma. She has a bit of trouble reflecting gordo but her down B absorb really takes away from gordo's usefulness. But I don't think she dominates neutral though because like I said above, Dedede can quickly kill luma.

Both characters struggle to land. Rosa and Dedede both have an insanely strong upairs. Neither want to be above the other. Dedede's upair in particular takes advantages of one of Rosa's big weakness - her problems with landing.

Dedede has a huge weight advantage. Rosa is very light whereas Dedede is very heavy. That makes a huge difference in this matchup.

I think in the end though, Rosa wins on the highest skill levels because she outranges Dedede with luma - winning the neutral. Rosa has little lag and can just play safer than Dedede. Dedede
has to get a read to get the kill. Rosa has the advantage if she plays patiently and carefully.

However, one or two little mistakes (or great reads by Dedede) can turn this matchup around instantly because Dedede can kill Rosa at stupidly early percents. Dedede is a character that rewards reads and punishes opponents severely for their mistakes. If Rosa isn't careful she'll get punished hard. But assuming we're talking about a great Rosa that keeps mistakes at the very minimum, my rating would have to be -

+1 :rosalina:
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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King Dedede is being analyzed again for this week. If you have anything to contribute for the match-up, especially in regards to the newest software update, this is the place to do it.
 

Muskrat Catcher

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Well, this is quite an interesting matchup. I have only played one tounament Rosalina so far, but just by that one set I learned a lot about the matchup (side note about that one set: It was one of the closest sets I have ever played. It went to game 3 and on our last stocks Rosa spiked me, and I was lucky we were playing on Dreamland with its low bottom blastzone. Any other stage and I would have lost for sure. Ended up coming back and winning). I have to say that Rosa is one of our better top tier matchups, but still not in our favor.

In terms of no customs, Dedede is not a free win for Rosalina by any means. Luma is really valuable in this matchup because it can reflect gordos easily, prevent our approach, make combos much riskier, and take a gordo hit for Rosa if Rosa is caught off guard. However, Dedede can get rid of luma pretty safely if Luma is not protected or Rosa's shield is too small. Just a side tilt is enough to send luma into a tumble, and D-tilt, Bair, and smashes are good at getting rid of luma too. When luma is gone, Dedede doesn't have to play as safe and can get aggressive. Also, Rosa is large and light, and Dedede benefits from both of those qualities. Rosa can die very early to a solid read, or a gordo ledge trap, or just a Bair onstage, and hitting her isn't very hard, especially when Luma is gone. In terms of ways to deal with gordo, gravitational pull is great when Dedede is at long range. If Dedede is far away when he initiates gordo, often he wants you to reflect gordo so he can reflect it right back at you. However if Dedede puts out a gordo too close to you, it is better to hit it back before he can react. Dedede is quite vulnerable when he commits to throwing a gordo. Also if you use gravitational pull while Dedede is close, he can get in and do some free damage. When luma is alive. Most moves can safely reflect gordo, particularly Nair, jab, star bits, or Dair. When luma is gone, it becomes a bit more risky. Bair is good if you can get it, or reverse Nair, or Dair, but otherwise it may be safer to use gravitational pull. You can choose to ignore it, but if you get grabbed or hit into gordo, you can take a LOT of damage, so keep that in mind. Rosa can certainly capitalize on Dedede's lack of speed though, especially his air speed. Even without luma, Rosa can juggle DDD pretty well with U-airs, and punish landings. If Dedede is above Rosa, you can nullify most of his approach options with U-tilt or U-air, and approaching on the ground is very difficult for DDD when luma is around, so it is possible to just prevent DDD's approach. In terms of off stage play, Rosa's recovery is very vulnerable, and if you don't mix it up, DDD can kill you really early. DDD can also chose to set up a gordo ledge trap. I think that if you drop from ledge and GP, you can get rid of the gordo, but don't do it too much or you might get stage spiked. Otherwise U-air or star bits can hit gordo, or you can try to get past everything but that is risky. Dedede is hard to punish off stage if he just recovers low and uses his armored up B to get back to ledge, so it is best to just try to punish his get up option.

(Wow I wrote a lot) okay so in conclusion, Rosa has a lot of tools that can shut down DDD's options when Luma is around, but Luma is vulnerable in this matchup and protecting it is very important. Be careful off stage, know when to reflect or absorb gordo, and make sure you punish DDD's commitments and landings.
I rate 55:45 in Rosa's favor

With customs:
Custom Rosa is scary, and has some really nice tools against Dedede. Luma warp is scary, but if you use it irresponsibly Luma will die for free, so don't spam it! Mix it up! Irresponsible warps will singlehandedly lose you the match. Distant star bit is really good for reflecting gordo from a distance, and forcing DDD to approach, making. Luma even more valuable. Guardian Luma is a good substitute for GP, but I'm not too experienced with that custom so I don't have much to say about it. Customs certainly gives Rosa more tools to deal with DDD, but makes luma even more important.
On Dedede's side, Dedede Storm is amazing at getting rid of Luma, as Dedede can just float above Rosa, then approach with a falling Dedede Storm which can get rid of Luma even if you shield it. However, normally Dededes run Taste Test, so unless the DDD knows that you are playing Rosa before hand, he will probably be using this first match, which is basically a better inhale that can't Dededecide or spit you offstage. Dedede storm makes the matchup very interesting because Rosa really benefits from having luma with Customs, and if Dedede can get rid of it so easily, it makes the MU very volatile. Dedede will certainly counterpick into this custom versus rosa, but this means that he loses his command grab, so shielding becomes safer, but doesn't protect Luma. Dedede's other customs can include Rising Dedede, just giving you more reason to never challenge him off stage, and Bouncing Gordo, which is really unpredictable but does much less damage and can't set up ledge traps.
Overall I would say that Rosa benefits from customs more than DDD does, but if Rosa loses Luma too much the MU can become even or possibly in Dedede's favor, but in general, 60:40 in Rosa's favor
 
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williamsga555

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Quick-and-easy input: Rosa wins, but it isn't a landslide. Solid +1 without much grey area, imo.

In Dedede's favor, much like what Muskrat was saying, he does pretty well at swatting away Luma. In particular, ftilt and bair are so good at getting rid of that pesky star. Up-throw→dtilt works super well at getting rid of Luma as well (though obviously we have to get a grab first, which is, um...easier said than done...)

Bair in general is super important in this matchup (as it is for basically any matchup). Outspaces Rosa really well, hits like a truck, and puts immense pressure on her recovery. Rosa has to be real careful of how she recovers against D3.

Also was mentioned before, but Rosa really doesn't want to be above D3. Up air is really meaty and really hard to challenge. A read air-dodge means she eats a bair instead. Both are good for The King.


...but that's where the fun stops. Rosa dominates neutral pretty handily in this matchup if she's mindful of Luma's positioning (and why wouldn't she be?). She juggles D3 for days and, while he can survive her usual early-killing luma setups most of the time, the mere threat of D3 losing an early stock is terrifying (since his longevity is basically his main selling point).

Dedede absolutely cannot get off the ledge in this matchup. His getup options are all far too slow. Sharking with up air removes the threat of luma jab trap, but then he has to return without invincibility, which is just another free punish...

Dedede's recovery is super vulnerable to Rosa's bair until he gets well below the stage. Go deep against him: D3 absolutely hates recovering horizontally. Just remember that once he's in range to use up b, you've missed your window: simply return to stage and start the process over again.

This is one of the worst matchups for gordo usage in the cast. Luma and GP combine to make it oh-so-difficult to ever get the things truly in play.



So yeah, in a customs-off meta, Rosa wins. Think it's +1 in her favor, but no worse. The King has a few key tools that make the matchup more doable, but ultimately he has to approach the great wall while having one of the worst approach games in the cast. Just don't sleep on him: play smart and don't over-extend and you should be good to go.
 
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