Meta Rosalina Match-Up Analysis R2 - Robin

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Rosalina Match-Up Analysis R2 - Robin

Welcome to the Rosalina vs. Robin match-up analysis thread. This thread will be used to analyze Rosalina's match-up against Robin. For all the rules on the round 2 match-up discussions, please refer to the directory thread.

Last Updated: 3/6/2016

Special Moves Allowed| |
Default only | | +1
Default + Custom | | +1

Spoiler: Score Inputs

Default only
Kaishin: ±0
Ultimastrike: +2

Default + Custom
Kaishin: +2
Wintropy: ±0

 

[Wintropy]

I haven't got too much information on this matchup right now, so I'll just cover the basics of what I understand:

- Robin's movement speed is terrible. It's the slowest in the game. They will use their projectiles to keep Luma out, but in a pinch, Levin Sword is a very strong aerial that can keep out Luma and intercept Rosie's approach options.

- Both jabs are useful and can KO at high percents, but useless on Luma, where Rosie can just rush in and punish them for it.

- They have a few keepaway options: Arcthunder and Arcfire can wall out Luma and setup for a followup aerial Levin Sword, while Thoron eats through both Rosie and Luma.

- They're juggle food. Just be careful of aerials, they're surprisingly effective spacing tools, and with Rosie's meager weight, can kill very early!

I will tag @Formaldehyde, as he plays both characters and has more matchup knowledge than I do. I will speak to him today and get his feedback if he's busy and can't contribute in person.

I don't have a quantitative matchup score right now, though I think it's definitely in Rosie's favour in DEFAULT. Thunder+ and Fire Wall may make it a more even matchup in CUSTOMS, though not by much.

 

[ARGHETH]

I don't have a quantitative matchup score right now, though I think it's definitely in Rosie's favour in DEFAULT. Thunder+ and Fire Wall may make it a more even matchup in CUSTOMS, though not by much.

:/ Thunder+? I mean, I guess, but Speed thunder makes everything less reactable, which is especially useful for Speed Thoron. I've heard people say that Thoron+ can (barely) be Gravitational Pull'd, but take that with a grain of salt.

 

[Wintropy]

:/ Thunder+? I mean, I guess, but Speed thunder makes everything less reactable, which is especially useful for Speed Thoron. I've heard people say that Thoron+ can (barely) be Gravitational Pull'd, but take that with a grain of salt.

Oh shoot that's what I meant to say.

Yeah my knowledge of Robin lives and dies with default.

 

[shane3x]

I don't play customs but I'd imagine Shooting Star Bit would cause Robin a lot of hassle since he'd have a hard time trying to charge any version of thunder or launch default arcfire since it is pretty laggy.

I'll definitely have to get back to this when I can considering both of these characters are my mains but I rarely play anyone else using Robin or Rosa but I think Rosa has the advantage either way. Levin Aerials may be amazing but he doesn't have the mobility to really take advantage of a Rosa using GP to counter a lot of his options and once she is past any walls Robin does throw up she can interrupt a lot of what he can do.

 

[WispBae]

Only fought this MU a few times, so I can't speak about it too wisely, but I'd agree with @ Wintropy with it being in RosaLuma's favor in default. Spammy Robins will get demolished here, so fighting up close and personal will be the way to go. Luckily, the Levin sword has pretty good range and Fair, Bair, Nair and U-Air all auto cancel. With Rosa being on the lighter side as well, staying alive long enough to use Rage really helps Robin, since she already KO's so early.

 

[Kaishin]

Robin is a good character but he gets bodied by rushdowns so hard (most notably Fox, thanks to blaster spam and the reflector). Rosalina is not that, and is in fact one of the two top tiers that is not a rushdown or hybrid. Unlike Yoshi, she doesn't have a projectile either, so that's a problem in this matchup.

I have surprising difficulty getting in on Robin thanks to all of his projectiles. Yeah, I can GP them all, sure, but that isn't exactly safe at melee range. When we're close enough to be considered melee range (which to be fair is still quite far for Rosalina), GPing a grounded Robin's arcfires has to be a read, because it can't be done on reaction (lasts too long) and it can't be shielded since it goes off regardless of what happens unlike Ness' PK Fire. It also takes out Luma if it's shielded.

Let's talk about aerials. Bair and Uair are nasty and I'd never touch those with a 30 foot pole at 80%+. Fair is slightly slower IIRC but it's still scary. A good Robin probably also has next to no difficulty spiking our recovery with his Dair from far away, a location that's not uncommon for us to be since Robin can blast us so far. Robin hits hard and fast and in every direction because of his nice set of aerials (I'd recon he would be top tier if not for his ****ty running speed). And we're a very large target, so he doesn't have much trouble punishing bad spacing.

Rosalina can get away with aerial hit and runs with nair, but our grounded options are risky since his arcfire outranges them. Ironic, considering it's normally the other around.

Robin has all the tools to space against us and all of the tools to kill us. This is probably his best top tier matchup.

Of course, Robin having all of these keepaway defenses does nothing to help him kill Rosalina, just keep her out. Rosalina's advantages I'm sure either have or will be touched on, so I won't comment to much on them. But uh...

+0 without customs

With customs, this obviously becomes significantly worse for Robin for the same reason as every other projectile spacer fighting Rosalina. SSL just annihilates him. She gets the projectile she so desperately wanted and Robin feels that in full force.

+2 with customs

 

[shane3x]

Robin is a good character but he gets bodied by rushdowns so hard (most notably Fox, thanks to blaster spam and the reflector). Rosalina is not that, and is in fact one of the two top tiers that is not a rushdown or hybrid. Unlike Yoshi, she doesn't have a projectile either, so that's a problem in this matchup.

I have surprising difficulty getting in on Robin thanks to all of his projectiles. Yeah, I can GP them all, sure, but that isn't exactly safe at melee range. When we're close enough to be considered melee range (which to be fair is still quite far for Rosalina), GPing a grounded Robin's arcfires has to be a read, because it can't be done on reaction (lasts too long) and it can't be shielded since it goes off regardless of what happens unlike Ness' PK Fire. It also takes out Luma if it's shielded.

Let's talk about aerials. Bair and Uair are nasty and I'd never touch those with a 30 foot pole at 80%+. Fair is slightly slower IIRC but it's still scary. A good Robin probably also has next to no difficulty spiking our recovery with his Dair from far away, a location that's not uncommon for us to be since Robin can blast us so far. Robin hits hard and fast and in every direction because of his nice set of aerials (I'd recon he would be top tier if not for his ****ty running speed). And we're a very large target, so he doesn't have much trouble punishing bad spacing.

Rosalina can get away with aerial hit and runs with nair, but our grounded options are risky since his arcfire outranges them. Ironic, considering it's normally the other around.

Robin has all the tools to space against us and all of the tools to kill us. This is probably his best top tier matchup.

Of course, Robin having all of these keepaway defenses does nothing to help him kill Rosalina, just keep her out. Rosalina's advantages I'm sure either have or will be touched on, so I won't comment to much on them. But uh...

+0 without customs

Robin's aerials are good, but how he uses them is fairly static and very predictable. He isn't combo'ing anyone that's for sure. I feel a Rosa that knows the moveset will manage just fine. Besides maybe a nair approach approaching from the air in general isn't rosa's strong suit and a smart robin will either space her out, getting whatever attacks he can in and then getting out as opposed to trying to be rushdown because he isnt that.

I'd say the main obstacle for rosa is getting past the initial arcfire wall and breaking into that zone because even though she isnt a rushdown character once shes within the arcfire zone she can shut down thunder charging and arcfire due to how laggy they are.

 

[alexthepony]

how do I get the kill a robin? it's almost Impossible to edguard him because a good robin will always use his lvl 3 arc thunder when off stage to buy him time to recover. and I can't really kill him off the stop with an uair because a good robin will know not to get uaired and use an airdodge and then a arc thunder to space away from the robin. And I can't seem to safely use a smash attack.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Robin is being analyzed again for this week. If you have anything to contribute for the match-up, especially in regards to the newest software update, this is the place to do it.

 

[Ultimastrike]

Robin is being analyzed again for this week. If you have anything to contribute for the match-up, especially in regards to the newest software update, this is the place to do it.

I think that the matchup is Rosalina favor with customs off, mainly due to a few facts:

- Rosalina is capable of using Gravitational Pull vs. Thoron and hitting Robin with a single hit of it, but a full Thoron will eat through Luma if left alone. She can also catch Robin's books very easily with GP.

- Robin's strong aerials can kill Rosalina early with a fresh Levin Up Air, and some attacks are in fact safe on shield(like Levin BAir for instance) to pressure.

Luma is probably going to be a nuisance for Robin due to him being a wall and adding lag to his aerials on hit. Fire Jab will knock him back, however, allowing Robin some breathing room. Wind Jab is also not optimal here due to the fact that Rosalina is a floaty, but it's still something nonetheless due to her height. Mostly I can see Levin Aerials, Arcfire spacing, and good book usage being key to victory here.

The big downside for Robin is that if he's juggled by Rosalina's Up Air or by Luma, he either needs to air dodge or use Elwind, as Rosalina's disjoint on her Up Air is nearly godlike since it's way over her head on late frames. That, and nearly all of Robin's Projectiles are useless against Rosalina due to GP, including books. Mixing up your projectiles is one way to go about it, but it's dangerous since she can use GP and use your Thoron hitbox against you.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Ultimastrike : How much of an advantage do you think Rosalina has? Small, moderate, or large?

 

[Ultimastrike]

Ultimastrike : How much of an advantage do you think Rosalina has? Small, moderate, or large?

I'd think that the advantage is moderate, at best. Robin's Levin Sword is still a threat, and Fire Jab can knock away Luma(at the edge will kill it since it falls into the infinitesimal abyss). Arcfire more or less is safe to use against GP, mainly due to it not having a large enough hitbox for collision after it's used. More or less being forced to mix-up how you use books is quite a puzzle in itself since one wrong move will allow Rosa to use GP and gain an item pressure advantage. She can also gain item pressure advantage if Robin isn't close enough to her shield, where she can run up and Z-Grab it.