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Meta Rosalina Match-Up Analysis R2 - Ike

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Rosalina Match-Up Analysis R2 - Ike


Welcome to the Rosalina vs. Ike match-up analysis thread. This thread will be used to analyze Rosalina's match-up against Ike. For all the rules on the round 2 match-up discussions, please refer to the directory thread.

Last Updated: 11/15/2015
Special Moves Allowed| | :4myfriends:
Default only | :rosalina: | +0.5
Default + Custom | :rosalina: | ±0
Default only
Linkmario00: +1
_Rango_: +1
shane3x: +1
Zonderion: -1

Default + Custom
Linkmario00: ±0
 

Linkmario00

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I have some experience in this MU. Generally, I feel like Ike is a good Luma killer. Our Bair and maybe even Fair can send Luma into the tumble animation at full or almosr full HP, so retreating aerials will be good since we have no lag on SH. After patch pivot Ftilt and DAwill also be good midrange options for kill Luma. Without Luma there isn't really that much you can do against Ike's big disjointed. Ike can also kill Rosa pretty early while he will survive for a lot. The real problem for Ike is approaching Rosalina,since she can really keep him out with jab and Luma positioning, and Ike can't approach from above because he has trouble escaping juggles and you have that Upair. Hit boxes on your aerials last forever so you could get some stage spike while Ike's recovering. The worst place to be in this MU is offstage. Your recovery doesn't have a hitbox so it's perfect for walkoff Fair and really early kill with Eruption. So my score for default is +1 for Rosa.
In customs things change a bit. Ike's customs are all good but I think Close Combat will be the most important here because it's a nice approach option which clanks with projectiles (so custom SideB won't work well) and he has a better recovery. My score for custom is +1 or 0 in Rosa's favour
 

shane3x

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Ike may have decent spacing tools but so does Rosa with Luma and most of Rosa's move's have faster frame data. Even if Luma is dead Ike doesn't really have the mobility or the tools to make the most of the times Luma might be out of play. I'd give +1 to Rosa.

I won't rate Customs because I don't know Ike's but I imagine shooting star bit would give him a lot of hassle.
 

Nidtendofreak

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I can tell ya all that Ryuga and SM both seem to think Ike wins the MU in default. You'd have to get them to explain their reasoning.
 

shane3x

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I guess what I meant to say is that Ike is capable of wiping out Rosalina sooner than most other fighters.
I understand what you're trying to say just the wording might not be right. There are plenty of characters who can KO Rosa as fast as Ike however Ike has properties to him (Spacing and frame data) compared to other characters with those same strength aspects which at least make it not completely in Rosa's favour.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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I understand what you're trying to say just the wording might not be right. There are plenty of characters who can KO Rosa as fast as Ike however Ike has properties to him (Spacing and frame data) compared to other characters with those same strength aspects which at least make it not completely in Rosa's favour.
Yeah what does help Ike is his sword's long reach, which requires Rosalina to be more cautious when approaching him. Most other heavy-hitting fighters don't have that kind of luxury.
 

Linkmario00

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The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced Close Combat is extremely helpful for Ike in this MU for various reasons.
1) CC is safe on shield unless you're at the edge because it literally cross shields.
2) CC hits both Rosalina and Luma
3) CC, like I said, stops if it clanks with projectiles like SideB but Ike won't take any damage from it so it's free space for Ike.
Pretty sure this can be even in customs
 

vegeta18

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can rosa beat any of ikes recoveries with edge guards? maybe back air his up special or nair against his CC while he is trying to recover. I tend to just stay on the stage and let him recover and enjoy the stage control. but thought maybe i missed some opportunities.
 

Kaishin

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Though it has little use on a good Ike player, you can hit a sloppy Ike with a fully charged luma shot when he uses aether.
 
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Zonderion

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So I actually played some one that was really good with Ike, the guy was fundamentally good. He had great spacing, great use of SH aerials, and could easily empty hop to grab for mix ups, was great at pivot grabs and tilts.

His range and disjoints keep Rosalina out. Luma stayed dead most of the time and if I did anything unsafe, I was punished.

Obviously a major factor was the level this guy was at vs me, which I don't consider myself that great.

I give this match up -1 for Rosalina. It doesn't take that many mistakes for an Ike main to punish and kill her.

Oh, and Ike's jab is ridiculous...
 
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Rango the Mercenary

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Having lost to four different Rosalina players this year, I can safely say Rosalina vs. Ike is 6-4 in Rosalina's favor. The easy part is getting Luma away from Rosa. The hard part is finishing the job.

In the neutral, Rosalina's Fair and Nair have sufficiently large hitboxes. You cannot get in on her, even with your own disjoint, and her aerials have little to no endlag. Trying to wipe her out, on the ground or in the air, comes down solely to her own mistakes. Her stalling ability is among the best in the game, especially given the speed of her dashgrabs, dash attacks, and the knockback on her jabs.

Worse yet, her rolling is the safest I have seen from any opponent in the game. I feel her roll seems to end early, allowing her to shield, spot-dodge, or jab before Ike can chase her down for a dashgrab punish, resulting in him getting punished instead. Her safety and lack of endlag alone makes the difference in a matchup with someone who is not safe on his own attacks and has more startup.

When she hits with a UTilt or a Uair, there is no way to avoid the juggle. If you've already used your airhop to attempt an escape and you still get hit, Ike's options rest in Rosalina's mercy. It takes an extremely well-timed airdodge and not having it read to avoid it. If you're on the ledge, you can Aether to the ledge. If you're center stage, you can combo Ike to a sufficient percent. As I faced in a match with Gadiel Vastar last night, he can chain the Uair from 70% to death on Dream Land. This is due to a combination of low ceiling, platforms, and Ike's lack of sufficient aerial movement and options while in tumble.

While Ike is offstage, her edgeguarding options include Dair spike above Ike's Aether and Side B, and extending the range of Luma's FSmash to right past the edge. She can also knock a Bair while chasing a falling Ike.

While Rosalina is offstage, her options are not as limited as they seem. Despite her slow falling speed, it's advantageous to her as Ike is not the type of character to chase people off-stage for the most part. This can result in getting counter-gimped, or she can simply Up B past him, recover, and prep a Luma edgeguard as he recovers on stage. Her ability to snap the ledge quickly with Up B makes it hard to time an Eruption, while her ability to shark up the ledge with Uair makes it less of an option. Rosalina is also volatile on the ledge, as she can not only quickly attack while jumping, but the Luma can just do it for her while she jumps from the ledge, making edgeguarding a jump difficult. Her ledge attack also hits shorthops, so retreating Fairs are also hard to accomplish.

Ike's main tools in this matchup cover Rosalina's light weight vs. his heavy weight, his own disjoint while works while Luma is away, his kill power, and his edgeguard. Rosalina's tools include Luma killing power, Uair juggles, abilities to counter edgeguarding, dashgrab speed, dash attacks that perfectly punish rolling due to their active frame, and having clear advantage on a number of stages.

Battlefield, Dream Land, Town & City, Halberd, and Delfino Plaza are all in Rosalina's favor. BF, DL, T&C, and DP give her platforms to carry juggles, while DL, T&C, Halberd, and parts of Delfino have low ceilings. Halberd and Delfino allow her to safely "shark" free Uairs under the stage, while Delfino also allows her to have clear control in the neutral without the risk of being edgeguarded on certain parts of the stage. Final Destination, Castle Siege, and Smashville are the only stages that break even for Ike in the matchup, but if any of these are banned, the stage matchup once again favors Rosalina entirely.

Therefore, given stage advantage, Uair juggles, low ceilings, safety, and Ike's own lack of aerial and tumble options while being juggled, I firmly believe the matchup is 6-4 Rosalina, which is the same as Sheik's matchup ratio on Ike.
 

Planty

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CC, like I said, stops if it clanks with projectiles like SideB but Ike won't take any damage from it so it's free space for Ike.
Default side-b is not a projectile. It's considered a disjoint. The other two are projectiles though.
 

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Ike is being analyzed again for this week. If you have anything to contribute for the match-up, especially in regards to the newest software update, this is the place to do it.
 

Rango the Mercenary

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Oh my God, looking at my recent post shows me how little I knew about this matchup. I took a hard loss to Gadiel around that time, bustered out to Eldin on a full-stock lead, and lost to every other Rosalina in bracket. Now I quite literally don't even fear this matchup.

Granted, one reason Ike has more advantage at this point is because the stage ruleset has changed. Due to the low ceilings and platform advantages, Rosalina had more stages to her side utilizing Delfino Plaza and Halberd - both of which have since been nixed from the general stage list.

Rosalina's stage advantage now lies primarily in Town & City. The platforms go higher up, the ceiling is lowered, so she can still get a hard combo. Battlefield and Dream Land can still benefit her with platform combos, though at this point, I'm willing to bet even Cloud does more damage to Ike in this facet.

Final Destination and Smashville are in Ike's advantage due to the lack of platform combos. Rosalina's only edge here is that she has more legroom to run away and escape when the Luma is missing, and the Smashville platform can sometimes save Luma.

Ike's single biggest advantage is the ability to swat away Luma on a given moment's notice. This is where Rosalina is forced to play defensive, utilize baits, and mixup dashgrabs/dash attacks in the corner. Ike's new and improved Fair outranges anything Rosalina tosses at him now, and off-stage is quite literally where she's weakest due to no hitboxes on her recovery, as well as limited options for getting back on-stage.

Ike's recent patches have helped make him an even more lethal threat against Rosalina due to the added kill option and number of disjointed attacks with solid knockback to take out Luma. Rosalina can die at under 100% to a number of moves, while without Luma's USmash or proper gimping/spikes, won't kill Ike until well after 120%.
 

Nidtendofreak

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Pretty much the same as before, but now Ike has even more range on his Fair (which means longer true combo range out of Uthrow among other things), Nair is now also a kill confirm out of Uthrow, and Nair also has more combos at low percents. And Rosalina dies like 1-3% sooner against everything.

So we're still murdering Luma like mad, but can also confirm kills easier and wrack up damage quicker. I believed it was neutral/veeeeery slightly Ike's favour before, I'm fairly confident its solidly veeeeery slightly Ike's favour. Rosalina can still do a number to Ike, Luma can still be a serious pain if we screw up killing it, Luma Uair is still Luma Uair. But Ike is one of the best characters in the game at getting rid of Luma, and then he's an absolute powerhouse afterwards. So throughout a set, the game should be tilted in Ike's favour more often than Rosalina's favour.
 

Rango the Mercenary

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Not only that, but Rosalina's ledge recovery is questionable. She has Uair and now has a Nair and Fair that Ike will simply outrange with his new and improved Fair. Her large hitbox makes it easy to hit her, so once she's on the ledge, she'll be taking extra damage.
 

[BROF]

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I'd really say that new fair is extremely good in this matchup.
When Autocancelled, it's safe on shield, extremely difficult to punish due to its massive space (IIRC it's the longest reaching fair right now, longer than Shulk's even) and it murders Luma extremely fast. Going off what Rango and Nidtendofreak said, Ike might be one of the characters with the easiest and safest way to get rid of Luma ASAP. High level play of Ike vs Rosalina is a rarity, but I've seen a lot of Ryo vs Xaltis, and Ryo really dominates that MU. Then again it might be Ryo being an overall better player.
We might need Dabuz or Falln to face some of the prominent Ikes to deduce more.
 

Rango the Mercenary

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I'd really say that new fair is extremely good in this matchup.
When Autocancelled, it's safe on shield, extremely difficult to punish due to its massive space (IIRC it's the longest reaching fair right now, longer than Shulk's even) and it murders Luma extremely fast. Going off what Rango and Nidtendofreak said, Ike might be one of the characters with the easiest and safest way to get rid of Luma ASAP. High level play of Ike vs Rosalina is a rarity, but I've seen a lot of Ryo vs Xaltis, and Ryo really dominates that MU. Then again it might be Ryo being an overall better player.
We might need Dabuz or Falln to face some of the prominent Ikes to deduce more.
Ryo is definitely a better player, but the truth is, I feel Ike's knockback vs. Luma is crucial in that matchup. Add the weight and strength differences, and Rosalina's only strengths are her dashgrabs and gimping or Dair spiking off Aether.
 

Ark of Silence101

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Dabuz has clearly defeated Ryuga and Ryo, not even Corrin is apparently a good idea in this MU for what I have seen, the only swordsman who I have seen clearly dominates this MU is Cloud.
 

Planty

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Dabuz is on a whole other level than Ryo and Ryuga. He's also a master at grinding out tough match ups. Not saying that this is bad for Rosa (it probably is a little) but Dabuz is just a special player like that. He even beat Mr R's meta knight, who does very well against Rosa. Doesn't mean Rosa now wins the matchup
 

Ark of Silence101

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Dabuz is on a whole other level than Ryo and Ryuga. He's also a master at grinding out tough match ups. Not saying that this is bad for Rosa (it probably is a little) but Dabuz is just a special player like that. He even beat Mr R's meta knight, who does very well against Rosa. Doesn't mean Rosa now wins the matchup
I wonder if that also means Tweek is also on another level than Ryo and Ryuga, seeing that unlike those two, he has actually not only defeated Dabuz, but also Mew2king, Ranai and Nairo, albeit he had to switch mains to do so.
 

Planty

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I wonder if that also means Tweek is also on another level than Ryo and Ryuga, seeing that unlike those two, he has actually not only defeated Dabuz, but also Mew2king, Ranai and Nairo, albeit he had to switch mains to do so.
To be fair, Cloud clearly beats Rosalina and absolutely demolishes Villager. Also Dabuz lost to M2K at Genesis 3 (I think) and he also has a losing record against Nairo (but they're both bad MUs for Rosa). I don't know, honestly.
 

Royug

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To be fair, Cloud clearly beats Rosalina and absolutely demolishes Villager. Also Dabuz lost to M2K at Genesis 3 (I think) and he also has a losing record against Nairo (but they're both bad MUs for Rosa). I don't know, honestly.
Nope, Dabuz won, but it was still a pretty even set and I believe M2K has improved since then.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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May I remind everyone that this thread is for discussing the Rosalina vs. Ike match-up. Discussions about the competitive players should be taken somewhere else.
 

Ark of Silence101

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Right, One of the things I have seen Rosalina players use against me when I play as Ike, is that they LOVE to use an improvised wall of pain with fair, they leave me at the edge of the blast line and they only thing I can do is hold that L button and fall to my death cause I don't jump high enough to reach the ledge, so, that's another pro in favor of Rosalina, edgeguards him HARD.
 

[BROF]

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Ike gets edgeguarded hard by most of the cast. Getting back to stage in this matchup is hard.
Its usually best to recover low and try to shark Rosalina with Aether, if the sword cant cover the edge its a free dair for her.
If we are too far for recovering low being an option, her disjointed hitboxes stop quick draw pretty hard.
Rosalina edgeguards Ike pretty hard, but on the other hand so does Ike.
Walk off fair (extremely hard to get around now due to its massive buffed hitbox), walk off bair, eruption. Coming back with her upB Rosalina is just a flailing fish waiting to get gutted by our sashimi knife.
 
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