Meta Rosalina Match-Up Analysis R2 - Captain Falcon

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Rosalina Match-Up Analysis R2 - Captain Falcon

Welcome to the Rosalina vs. Captain Falcon match-up analysis thread. This thread will be used to analyze Rosalina's match-up against Captain Falcon. For all the rules on the round 2 match-up discussions, please refer to the directory thread.

Last Updated: 7/26/2015

Special Moves Allowed| |
Default only | | ±0
Default + Custom | | ±0 - +0.5

Spoiler: Score Inputs

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AlMoStLeGeNdArY: ±0
Kaishin: ±0
teluoborg: ±0
Underhill: ±0
WhiteMageBD: ±0

Default + Custom
AlMoStLeGeNdArY: ±0
Underhill: ±0 - +1

 

[Underhill]

Let's get started on the Rosalina and Captain falcon MU.

:Rosalina can give falcon a hard time appoarching since he doesn't have a projectile. There's her forward and down-tile, star bits, and n-air to stop him from coming in on her. Since Falcon is a large target, she can combo him with her up-throw and down throw at early percents along with a couple of up airs since he can't get out of her strings due to falling speed and being heavy. If she gets falcon above her in the air, then she can juggle him with her deadly up-airs and maybe kill him off the screen with luma(depending on damage and rage).
While falcon's edgeguarding game is slighty stronger, she can also gimp falcon's recovery with d-air and back air. You can also use luma to cover falcon's get-up and roll with Rosalina to down smash, down tile, grab, forward tile, or forward smash.

:Falcon has the moves to knock Luma off stage such as dash attack, forward smash, falcon kick, knee(if you want to be brutal), and down smash. Some of his moves can also separate Rosalina and Luma because they have enough knockback to do so. Once Luma is gone, this is your chance to rushdown Rosalina.
His damage output is better than Rosalina so his combos will work on her since she's a large target. His Ko potential is better and also, he can kill Rosalina early than she can because she's light. Rage benefits Falcon more than Rosalina since he's heavy and can take more punishment than she can. Falcon's mobility both in the ground and air are better for him to juggle her, land better(his falling speed is fast), combo her, and catch up to her if he knocks her off stage.
Falcon's edgeguarding game is sightly stronger than Rosalina's because even though Rosalina's recovery can reach the ledge more than falcon, it doesn't have a hitbox and it's predictable like Falcon's. His d-air, the knee, and back air can take Rosalina out early depending which angle she uses for her recovery. Also if she grab the ledge twice, then this is the perfect time to use falcon's up-tile to spike her down(if spaced correctly with the foot).

Stages: Final destruction, its easiler for Captain Falcon to appoarch Rosalina with no platforms around; However on Battlefield and Dreamland, not only she can make it alittle harder for Falcon to appoarch and keep luma safe with platforms, but can also juggle falcon with up-tile, up air, and n-air because of her being tall.

Customs:
:Falcon dive without the grab can make it difficult for Rosalina to gimp him unless she's lucky with well timed down air before he grabs the ledge. As long as he don't grab the ledge twice which means for a down air, back air, and maybe down tile, he'll be fine.
:With shooting star bit and teleport luma, she can level up the playing the field. Shooting star bit can use to stop falcon's appoarches, bait rolls or air dodges to punish, and as a projectile.

For the Mu, I say its 0(or even) because while Rosalina has the tools to edgeguard, stop appoarches, and range to bring down the Captain himself, Falcon has the mobility and power to take out luma and rushdown Rosalina. Customs, I say 0 or 0.5+ slighty in Rosalina's favor because with Shooting star bit and teleport luma, it steps up her game with edgeguarding and to stop falcon's appoarches even more with shooting bit. Keep your luma safe, and good luck destroying falcon together.

 

[Kaishin]

This is even without customs.

Falcon gets guaranteed combos with his uair that are extended with platforms (50ish damage out of a grab) and his kill power is better than ours thanks to his amazing vertical resistance making it hard for us to kill him that way. He also shuts down the Nair as a common spacing tool.

Newer Rosalinas probably think it's in Falcon's favor but it's not. Falcon is the Rosalina noobstomper.

Rosalina is the only spacer in the game that can zone out Falcon and lock him to the edge thanks to her dtilt shutting down his boost grab and dash attack. She wins neutral for the same reason. She also kills him a lot earlier via gimps. Let me make this abundantly clear: you cannot win against a Falcon without gimping him. You're eventuality gonna hit a block.

Rosalina has the necessary tools. They're just different than what would be used against a lot of other characters. Falcon is the wake-up call for all Star Mom mains.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I'm going to say that this MU is even but it's an extremely tough MU that can feel as though you're at a disadvantage. This mu doesn't change regardless of customs. I actually don't think that luma shot or warp changes the MU very much. Lightning falcon kick goes thru shields and luma. So if falcon is running customs you're likely to see this and dashing falcon punch and maybe a different up B.

The problems falcon presents in this MU are his extremely fast dash and his ridiculous dash grab. Dash grab will break your attempts at keeping him out which will lead into dthrow. Dthrow leads into uair luma can't break this combo. Dthrow is deadly because at mid percentages it creates a 50/50. Falcon can either knee or dair. If he waits for you to air dodge he's looking for the dair. I don't think you should air dodge in the situations. Dj away or something.

No hitbox on Rosalina's up b causes another problem for her in the mu. On certain stages he can dair thru tge stage BF and sv. Then he has utilt uair bair dair and knee for edgeguards. It's pretty rough trying to get back on stage. The flip side is that you edgeguard him ridiculously well as well and he'll have to do drastic things to be able to recover. Bair stage spikes him or run off dair both grest options for gimps.

Falcon has a strong moveset with a lot of good moves. His jab is frustrating as hell and he can use this to annoy and cover ledge options. It's also pretty good to kill Luma. His fsmash has ridiculous range so don't be fooled. Nair uair and bair are all great moves. His uair can combo into knee. Be wary of this.

Falcon is a fast faller which means yoh combo him extremely well and uthrow to uair works at mid percentages. Juggle him juggle trap him make him eat all your uairs. Also uthrow to jab at low percentages is pretty good since he a fast faller and doesn't have sny quick aerials.

Also I haven't tried yet but I think the dabuz edgeguard (send luma out and do jabs under the ledge) can be really good vs him.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Captain Falcon is being analyzed again for this week. If you have anything to contribute for the match-up, especially in regards to the newest software update, this is the place to do it.

 

[WhiteMageBD]

Just beat a good falcon today at a tournament. This mu is about even, but its hard to do this mu because falcon has a lot of luma killer moves. His jab can kill luma from the middle of the stage due to its insane kb. The way to win is zone him out and juggle and edgeguard him as much as possible. Plus, since falcon has a bad defense while edguarding due to his poor recovery, you can counter gimp him to if he gets too reckless.

 

[teluoborg]

Neutral matchup imo.

Falcon can kill luma very easily with Jab3, multijab finisher, sweetspot Bair and Fthrow. Fsmash, Dsmash and dash attack work too but they are all unsafe on shield while Falcon can jab luma to death when Rosalina is shielding and the worst he'll suffer is a dash grab or a dash attack if the spacing is bad.
The only thing Rosa can do against it is pick SV/TC and hope for the platforms to prevent luma from falling offstage. If Falcon hits with the multijab finisher good luck tho, this hit sends luma back to the stratosphere.

Falcon has a kill setup on Rosalina at 50-60% with dashgrab Dthrow knee. I don't remember the exact percents but it's inescapable in this range and then after that becomes a frame trap with airdodge.

Falcon will hurt Rosa's recovery if she's too predictable. Stagespiking Bairs and stomps are to be expected if you let Falcon guess that you're recovering low, good Rosas will alternate between recorvering low, recovering high and using their second jump Uair to push people off the ledge.

Now Rosa's strenghts in this matchup : Falcon is a combo sandbag and has no real options against Uair juggles beside FF airdodge. Rosa's jab is equal to 20+% if luma is alive, and sometimes Falcon will eat combos that no other character can.
Rosa can gimp Falcon as easily as he can gimp her if she knows to aim her Dairs on is hand during his up B.

My personal feeling is that luma is Falcon's biggest foe in the matchup and that as long as he's alive Falcon will be outspaced and overwhelmed. The silver lining is that with a bit of timing from the Falcon's part Rosalina will have to fight without luma 80% of the match. So it's all about killing luma or keeping him alive.

 

[WhiteMageBD]

This is even without customs.

Falcon gets guaranteed combos with his uair that are extended with platforms (50ish damage out of a grab) and his kill power is better than ours thanks to his amazing vertical resistance making it hard for us to kill him that way. He also shuts down the Nair as a common spacing tool.

Newer Rosalinas probably think it's in Falcon's favor but it's not. Falcon is the Rosalina noobstomper.

Rosalina is the only spacer in the game that can zone out Falcon and lock him to the edge thanks to her dtilt shutting down his boost grab and dash attack. She wins neutral for the same reason. She also kills him a lot earlier via gimps. Let me make this abundantly clear: you cannot win against a Falcon without gimping him. You're eventuality gonna hit a block.

Rosalina has the necessary tools. They're just different than what would be used against a lot of other characters. Falcon is the wake-up call for all Star Mom mains.

You say this is even when Dabuz "The best Rosa in the world", says he hates this mu and actually picks his secondaries to fight good falcons like Fatality. This mu is even under right circumstances, but its definitely not an easy mu to get through for Rosa because Falcon has so many luma killers combine with his great ko power on Rosa. And the way you say it, you think the mu is easy for Rosa, absolutely not, you have to work hard to win lol.

 

[ChikoLad]

You say this even though Dabuz "The best Rosa in the world", says he hates this mu and actually picks his secondaries to fight good falcons like Fatality. This mu is even under right circumstances, but its definitely not an easy mu to get through for Rosa because Falcon has so many luma killers combine with his great ko power on Rosa. And the way you say it, you think the mu is easy for Rosa, absolutely not, you have to work hard to win lol.

Or maybe other people can just handle the MU better than Dabuz? He has a specific playstyle, and it's not optimal for quite a few MUs.

I find the MU in Rosalina's favour. Falcon is like, the perfect weight and fall speed for easy, long combos, and he's a big enough target too (even with just Rosalina, I find him easy to combo). It's very easy to get him stuck into U-Air juggle, or have him go off stage, where he is a free gimp for Rosalina.

I don't find he has enough moves that are effective against Rosalina to really mix-up, and Luma negates his ability to rush down effectively (the only thing he's truly good at), so he has to play a very awkward and predictable game plan that doesn't play to his strengths. And then you can outrange him on a lot, even without Luma. You should be fine to keep Luma too of you just are good at protecting him (this goes for any MU. I don't believe any character is particularly good at getting rid of Luma, he's inherently easy to get rid of unless you protect him).

I just for the life of me can't see how people have trouble with him. I agree with the statement that he's a Rosalina noob killer, because most Rosalina's want to be super defensive which isn't necessary here. Falcon is totally combo bait for Rosalina and he has an awkward time playing his usual rush down game. So just rush him down yourself. That's what I do and it works fine, even against really good Falcons.

 

[WhiteMageBD]

Or maybe other people can just handle the MU better than Dabuz? He has a specific playstyle, and it's not optimal for quite a few MUs.

I find the MU in Rosalina's favour. Falcon is like, the perfect weight and fall speed for easy, long combos, and he's a big enough target too (even with just Rosalina, I find him easy to combo). It's very easy to get him stuck into U-Air juggle, or have him go off stage, where he is a free gimp for Rosalina.

I don't find he has enough moves that are effective against Rosalina to really mix-up, and Luma negates his ability to rush down effectively (the only thing he's truly good at), so he has to play a very awkward and predictable game plan that doesn't play to his strengths. And then you can outrange him on a lot, even without Luma. You should be fine to keep Luma too of you just are good at protecting him (this goes for any MU. I don't believe any character is particularly good at getting rid of Luma, he's inherently easy to get rid of unless you protect him).

I just for the life of me can't see how people have trouble with him. I agree with the statement that he's a Rosalina noob killer, because most Rosalina's want to be super defensive which isn't necessary here. Falcon is totally combo bait for Rosalina and he has an awkward time playing his usual rush down game. So just rush him down yourself. That's what I do and it works fine, even against really good Falcons.

Cant be too aggressive against him either, his bait and punish game is strong due to his fast speed and good fox trot.

 

[Planty]

I find the MU in Rosalina's favour. Falcon is like, the perfect weight and fall speed for easy, long combos, and he's a big enough target too (even with just Rosalina, I find him easy to combo). It's very easy to get him stuck into U-Air juggle, or have him go off stage, where he is a free gimp for Rosalina.

The exact same can be said likewise. This is among the most volatile matchups in the game. Mess up once and you could die.

I don't find he has enough moves that are effective against Rosalina to really mix-up,

Falcon mixes up movement, not attacks. Heck, even though only a few of his moves are good, those moves are borderline broken.

Luma negates his ability to rush down effectively (the only thing he's truly good at)

Rush-down Falcon vs defensive Rosa is 0:100 just Falcon Kick offstage end the suffering early.

This is a bait and punish character. He moves around just outside your range with extended dash dance and empty hops, waiting. Just waiting for you to do anything. Then, he strikes hard and fast. I'll explain the issue with this further down.

And then you can outrange him on a lot, even without Luma.

No you can't.

. So just rush him down yourself.

How? How do you rush down Falcon as Rosalina? Actually explain, step by step.

You can't just run into him. He's way too fast and his movement too elusive.
Do you jump at him? It's your funeral.
Do you walk up to him? No you don't.

And here lies the problem; Falcon is just too fast to catch. And when he's too fast to catch, you play by his rules. He decides when to engage. He decides when to back off. He decides everything in neutral.

If he succeeds? Bye-bye momma.
If he fails? RIP Douglas.

Now what's the more likely situation? Falcon with complete control over neutral wins it more often than you, or the other way around?
It's actually a very similar matchup to Fox vs Corrin; the two destroy each other on a punish. The only problem is that Fox's movement makes him extremely difficult to catch as Corrin and because of that Fox wins the matchup.
Another example? Sonic vs Ryu. Sonic wins this matchup because he's just so much faster than Ryu so he dictates the pace of the match. And yet, Sonic has significantly lower damage output than Ryu. If Sonic was as strong as Ryu, it would be destruction.

Don't even get me started on Falcon vs Rosalina without Luma. There is absolutely no character in this whole game who capitalizes harder on dead Luma than Falcon does. And don't delude yourself by thinking that the whole roster is perfectly balanced when it comes to killing Luma. Falcon kills Luma extremely easily and capitalizes on it harder than anyone. That's bad.

 

[ChikoLad]

The exact same can be said likewise. This is among the most volatile matchups in the game. Mess up once and you could die.

Falcon mixes up movement, not attacks. Heck, even though only a few of his moves are good, those moves are borderline broken.

Rush-down Falcon vs defensive Rosa is 0:100 just Falcon Kick offstage end the suffering early.

This is a bait and punish character. He moves around just outside your range with extended dash dance and empty hops, waiting. Just waiting for you to do anything. Then, he strikes hard and fast. I'll explain the issue with this further down.

No you can't.

How? How do you rush down Falcon as Rosalina? Actually explain, step by step.

You can't just run into him. He's way too fast and his movement too elusive.
Do you jump at him? It's your funeral.
Do you walk up to him? No you don't.

And here lies the problem; Falcon is just too fast to catch. And when he's too fast to catch, you play by his rules. He decides when to engage. He decides when to back off. He decides everything in neutral.

If he succeeds? Bye-bye momma.
If he fails? RIP Douglas.

Now what's the more likely situation? Falcon with complete control over neutral wins it more often than you, or the other way around?
It's actually a very similar matchup to Fox vs Corrin; the two destroy each other on a punish. The only problem is that Fox's movement makes him extremely difficult to catch as Corrin and because of that Fox wins the matchup.
Another example? Sonic vs Ryu. Sonic wins this matchup because he's just so much faster than Ryu so he dictates the pace of the match. And yet, Sonic has significantly lower damage output than Ryu. If Sonic was as strong as Ryu, it would be destruction.

Don't even get me started on Falcon vs Rosalina without Luma. There is absolutely no character in this whole game who capitalizes harder on dead Luma than Falcon does. And don't delude yourself by thinking that the whole roster is perfectly balanced when it comes to killing Luma. Falcon kills Luma extremely easily and capitalizes on it harder than anyone. That's bad.

A lot of this is just making excuses and is more telling me that I can't do things you can't do than anything else. Don't tell me I can't do it just because you can't, seriously. I know what I'm capable of with the character thanks.

Falcon isn't too fast at all. Then again, I main Sonic. I know how to deal with fast characters with Rosalina since I play them myself.

I'm not in the mood to do another one of these MU discussions back and forth where people just keep saying "Rosalina can't do this, and this, and this" just because they personally can't. It always turns toxic.

You pocket another character for Falcon if you feel the MU against him is that bad. I'll keep kicking his (finely detailed) butt.

Also, for the record, every Falcon main I speak to (the actually good ones, For Glory noobs think Falcon is some hard counter and I body them all the time) seems to say the MU is a lot of trouble for Falcon.

 

[Planty]

A lot of this is just making excuses and is more telling me that I can't do things you can't do than anything else. Don't tell me I can't do it just because you can't, seriously. I know what I'm capable of with the character thanks.

Then just tell me what the optimal approach option is. I'm legitimately curious. If you're just pressing buttons then you're a better player than the Falcons you encounter. You're always vague with your wording or you don't explain properly. How do you approach?

 

[ChikoLad]

Then just tell me what the optimal approach option is. I'm legitimately curious. If you're just pressing buttons then you're a better player than the Falcons you encounter. You're always vague with your wording or you don't explain properly. How do you approach?

It always is gonna vary depending on how my opponent plays, but the best tips I can give for approaching in general (this will apply to other characters too really):

-Pivot Extended Luma B-air is amazing since it allows you to hit from a distance, and then continue to draw closer for follow-ups.
-Short Hop D-airs tend to catch a lot of people off when they are rushing straight for you. Falcon's like to approach with dash grabs and aerials and this move can cover those easily before they even get them out, especially is you space Luma outward a bit from the default position in advance.
-N-airs will always give you a lot of coverage going in if you think the Falcon might move erratically.
-Keep Luma spaced out from you while still tethered, then approach with aerials to prevent Luma from moving back to the default position. If Falcon goes for Luma then he's gonna get punished by the approaching Rosalina.
-Lunar Landing, as always, is just a fantastic approach tool in general as it gives you room to mess up since Rosalina can react with whatever she wants if Luma's attack doesn't work out right.

 

[Planty]

RAR Luma Bair oh my gosh it's perfect. I can't believe I never thought of it. Completely shuts down Falcon in midrange and you could hit him while rising with it. Awesome. Too bad he could punish it.

 

[WhiteMageBD]

RAR Luma Bair oh my gosh it's perfect. I can't believe I never thought of it. Completely shuts down Falcon in midrange and you could hit him while rising with it. Awesome.

Just remember that falcon is one of the few characters who can actually punish rar bair with a shield, then dash grab, so mix that up with Rosa's amazing mix up options.