Meta Rosalina Match-Up Analysis R2 - Zelda

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Rosalina Match-Up Analysis R2 - Zelda

Welcome to the Rosalina vs. Zelda match-up analysis thread. This thread will be used to analyze Rosalina's match-up against Zelda. For all the rules on the round 2 match-up discussions, please refer to the directory thread.

Last Updated: 1/31/2016

Special Moves Allowed| |
Default only | | +0.5
Default + Custom | | +1

Spoiler: Score Inputs

Default only
BJN39: +1
Crudedude: +2
evmaxy54: +1 - +2
JigglyZelda003: -1
Macchiato: ±0
Zolda: -1
Zylach: +1

Default + Custom
Crudedude: +1
Macchiato: ±0
Zylach: +1

 

[JigglyZelda003]

I haven't played against custom Rosie as Zelda but since Zeldas customs tend to be "specific jank" I assume it wouldn't give Zelda much of an advantage.

For vanilla/default I feel Rosie has a small advantage againt Zelda as long as Luma is on the field. Once Luma is gone the matchup becomes almost even with Rosie being faster while Zelda is stronger as a whole. Getting rid of Luma isn't too difficult if Rosie is tossing him around, but even when kept nearby almost any move of Zeldas can send Luma away. Zelda just has to be a little more patient/defensive when Rosie keeps Luma nearby because she doesn't want to take a bunch of damage getting rid if Luma.

Rosies grab and Uair juggle game is annoying for Zelda cause Zelda can't really fight the Uairs without taking risk like ff Dair or airdodge>Nair so if she ends up above Rosie she will more or less try to run to the ledge to not get caught in the Uair nonsense. Rosie should abuse her grabs cause Zelda tends to shield alot. Zeldas general combos do work on Rosie when Luma isn't around, more or less Zelda will hang back trying more than two hit Follow ups untile Luma is away or separate Rosie and Luma to do more.

with Luma it becomes easier to trap Zelda at the ledge because you have that second option to cover the ledge when she teleports to it and also her ledge get up options. without Luma I haven't really felt threatened by Rosie near the ledge only at worst fear an Usmash or a grab. Offstage, If Rosie follows out Zelda can wait till Rosie retreats away to warp to the ledge because faroes distance. but Rosie can still harass her with her aerials. Where in the opposite situation I feel Zelda should be more aggressive on Rosie for edgeguard. Its not hard to dtilt her upB if she goes for the ledge and Zelda can always Nair out to Rosie to further push her away from the stage if it hits. If Rosie can maneuver around Zelda she should be safe. Sometimes I see Rosies go over the stage when I follow them out there and I can't get back to them in time to catch them lagging unless I baited it and went back on stage for a faroes snipe.

Rosies normals and aerials can lightly box Zelda out because they are fast and her aerials have long lasting hitboxes, but if Zelda can get in with her own Normals she can keep up. Luma adds to further keeping Zelda out if Luma is available. Rosie is also tall which makes her easier to kick both as an OoS and in general. I do not know if Rosie is fast enough to punish a blocked perfect LK, only a perfect shielded one.

Luma sorta makes Zelda approach but not really unless Zelda is behind, Zelda can reflect Luma shot and the star bits only keep her out a bit. the same goes for Rosie with Dins and phantom. Phantom is absorbable but Dins is only neutralizable. Dins can still hit Luma though and send him away and Phantom can make a nice ground wall to keep Rosie from just running in. quick phantom lightly pokes at Rosie if she is advancing.

This matchup at least in my opinion works like a Zelda ditto where whoever I forced to approach the most loses due to both players having poor approach options. Some Rosies I fight have just stood around and waited for the Luma respawn because Luma gives Rosie a bit of an edge that Zelda can't get but Zelda hits harder than Rosie without Luma and doesn;t have too muhc trouble getting rid of Luma so i think that balances the match out.

Zelda wants no platforms against Rosie, or at least I don't unless its Duck Hunt, so Rosie should try to pick a platform stage while Zelda wants Final Destination for this matchup.

Default score +1 Rosie or even. I feel Luma can be counted as just important enough to warrant a small advantage, but its still pretty even in my opinion

 

[Crudedude]

Spot dodging for rosie can be bad if Zelda let's out one of her lingering moves if luma gets in the way. I do feel like rosie takes the cake for this match up. Range, faster, better air, pressure, those jabs, fast tilts. In this match up I find Zelda's down smash very useful since it relieves pressure if rosie makes a mistake and forces rosie to climb up the stage because rosie's up b is predictable and Zelda gets a lot from reads and rosie is no hard target. On center stage Rosie should be fine. +2 on Rosie one for her and one for her luma.

 

[BJN39]

^Great coverage JigZ. I will add that Zeldas are very thankful for the massive power buff on Usmash as well that happened in 1.0.8. It will start being guaranteed to KO Rosalina at around, or maybe a couple percent below 90%. While the move does have smaller hit-boxes and some end lag, its KO power demands a little respect. Basically just don't forget it's there and accidentally get read and hit by it.

If you lose Luma you really should just play lame and try to just keep Zelda away or run away. Your mobility is better than her in pretty much all aspects at least slightly and you can neutralize her projectiles enough, (Even though Zelda will want to go in not camp if Luma is gone.) so laming away to regain your main MU edge and meat shield will be only flavorful.

I'll score this MU as 55:45 Rosalina's favor. [default] If I were to put it in the single number system you Rosie ladies have decided to switch to i'd score it +1 Rosalina. [default]

 

[Macchiato]

We easily get Rid of luma with a Dash Attack. She can't really force an approach either due to not having a projectile. In neutral Rosalinda will just space safely so we have to watch carefully for a punish. She's a regular character so she's still effected by our combos. Rosalina is also punishable if she doesn't space perfectly. She is also tall so we can take advantage of that with out of shield lightning kicks. We have a lead in killing too. We have a true set-up to elevator which is Nair - Elevator. We kill Rosalinda at 70% with no rage and 55% with rage with the elevator. Our lightning kicks also kill exceptionally early. With our new Usmash, a misspaced aerial is a 80% kill. With that Rosalinda also kills well. Her Fsmash and Usmash kills around 90%. Her Uair is a wild card, It can kill very early depending how close to the ceiling Zelda is. Zelda should be smart and not predictable to not die at like 60% but a very good read will result to early death. Even if the Zelda is smart and isn't predictable with landing options, Uair will probably kill us at 85%. So Zelda has a decent advantage in KOs. Zelda has an amazing offstage game. Dtilt easily interferes with her recovery due to it hitting under the ledge leading up to a possible Dair IF we read an airdodge. We could also just jump off and Dair. If you go over us to the stage we can just Farore's wind over to hit. Zelda is very hard to edgeguard due to her having a teleport, but the one frame she grabs the ledge where she is open to hits should be taken advantage of. Rosalinda's dair isn't a strong spike so we'll probably live it until like 80% due to us having an exceptional recovery. With customs we get a very strong but fast projectile which can force an approach so do you gorls. Luma warp might help with edgeguarding due to how fast it is. Rosalina also gets a recovery which is harder to gimp but still gimpable but is probably better for this MU. We get phantom strike which is a very damaging move with fast charge and amazing at edgeguarding due to it sending you at a downward angle that makes it hard to recovery.

In Zelda perspective.
Vanilla is a +2 for Zelda and with customs I would say it's a +1

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Spot dodging for rosie can be bad if Zelda let's out one of her lingering moves if luma gets in the way. I do feel like rosie takes the cake for this match up. Range, faster, better air, pressure, those jabs, fast tilts. In this match up I find Zelda's down smash very useful since it relieves pressure if rosie makes a mistake and forces rosie to climb up the stage because rosie's up b is predictable and Zelda gets a lot from reads and rosie is no hard target. On center stage Rosie should be fine. +2 on Rosie one for her and one for her luma.

Is your score for the default only setting?

 

[JigglyZelda003]

^Great coverage JigZ. I will add that Zeldas are very thankful for the massive power buff on Usmash as well that happened in 1.0.8. It will start being guaranteed to KO Rosalina at around, or maybe a couple percent below 90%. While the move does have smaller hit-boxes and some end lag, its KO power demands a little respect. Basically just don't forget it's there and accidentally get read and hit by it.

i actually have a question about Usmash, can it eat Rosie out of like her Nair? Dair's disjoint will protect Rosie from directly above if she does it right, but Rosie is also floaty enough to get sucked into Usmash trying to airdodge it so i want to know if she jumps at us with a Nair can we snag her at the tip?

We have a lead in killing too. We have a true set-up to elevator which is Nair - Elevator. We kill Rosalinda at 70% with no rage and 55% with rage with the elevator.

Macchi gurl how viable is this? Rosie has a good grab and isn't her head invincible during Usmash? while this is an option its a very hard read/heavy risk situation even without Luma around. even if we went behind her back we still would have to traverse her Usmash area.

Her Uair is a wild card, It can kill very early depending how close to the ceiling Zelda is. Zelda should be smart and not predictable to not die at like 60% but a very good read will result to early death. Even if the Zelda is smart and isn't predictable with landing options, Uair will probably kill us at 85%.

Zelda has pretty good air speed so i feel like she has a better chance getting away than some other characters because of that, unless she's already really high in the air then she might be DED

 

[Macchiato]

i actually have a question about Usmash, can it eat Rosie out of like her Nair? Dair's disjoint will protect Rosie from directly above if she does it right, but Rosie is also floaty enough to get sucked into Usmash trying to airdodge it so i want to know if she jumps at us with a Nair can we snag her at the tip?




Macchi gurl how viable is this? Rosie has a good grab and isn't her head invincible during Usmash? while this is an option its a very hard read/heavy risk situation even without Luma around. even if we went behind her back we still would have to traverse her Usmash area.



Zelda has pretty good air speed so i feel like she has a better chance getting away than some other characters because of that, unless she's already really high in the air then she might be DED

A good airdodge read gets us a falling nair. Maybe a good punish too. A set-up that's been working for me is dthrow to airdodge bait to falling nair.

 

[Lorde]

i actually have a question about Usmash, can it eat Rosie out of like her Nair? Dair's disjoint will protect Rosie from directly above if she does it right, but Rosie is also floaty enough to get sucked into Usmash trying to airdodge it so i want to know if she jumps at us with a Nair can we snag her at the tip?




Macchi gurl how viable is this? Rosie has a good grab and isn't her head invincible during Usmash? while this is an option its a very hard read/heavy risk situation even without Luma around. even if we went behind her back we still would have to traverse her Usmash area.

Rosalina's usmash has 9 frames of head intangibility (frames 7-16; hitboxes are out 8-16) and utilt has 7 frames of head intangibility (frames 4-11; hitboxes are out 9-17).

I'm not sure if Zelda can get her with the usmash if she nairs at us. As long as Rosalina spaces her nairs well, I'd be inclined to say that Zelda can't punish it with usmash (or much else, really). Rosalina's nair also has so little landing lag (11 frames) that even punishing whiffs can be difficult.

Nair>elevator isn't too great of a set up because elevator's second hit takes forever to come out (frame 41) and Rosalina can just DI out of it. Usmash is going to be way more of a reliable kill move in this MU imo.

 

[evmaxy54]

I feel like it's either +1 or +2 to Rosa (default).

Some thoughts:

-We both can edgeguard each other p well with our own respective Dairs, though if Rosa gets Zelda onto the ledge it becomes really hard for Zelda to get back on stage easily.
-Rosa can juggle us hard if she gets us into the air & we can't do the same, but Rosa needs to be careful not to miss as Zelda can FW1 to punish & safely land to the ground (& if the Zelda is confident in her reaction & aiming, falling Aerial Elevator can kill just over 80% without Rage but this is very hard to pull off).
-While Zelda can get rid of Luma p easily with DA & Dins (remember Rosa can't GP this), Rosa still has the speed & the disjoints to keep out Zelda until Luma comes back.

If I can remember more stuff I'll post it later

I'm not sure if Zelda can get her with the usmash if she nairs at us. As long as Rosalina spaces her nairs well, I'd be inclined to say that Zelda can't punish it with usmash (or much else, really). Rosalina's nair also has so little landing lag (11 frames) that even punishing whiffs can be difficult.

Nair>elevator isn't too great of a set up because elevator's second hit takes forever to come out (frame 41) and Rosalina can just DI out of it. Usmash is going to be way more of a reliable kill move in this MU imo.

If Rosa misspaced her Nair, it's a possibility (because lol what's shield stun) but 2 frame window is really small yea. People tend to mess up & Zelda is p good at punishing them for it.

Also the point about Elevator is kinda moot, since Elevator is a true combo the speed of the second hit is irrelevant & if they DI the first hit Zelda can just aim it (easier said than done granted but it is certainly doable).

Honestly, I need someone (or me when I get home on Friday) to see how reliable Nair combos are on Rosa.

 

[Lorde]

If Rosa misspaced her Nair, it's a possibility (because lol what's shield stun) but 2 frame window is really small yea. People tend to mess up & Zelda is p good at punishing them for it.

Also the point about Elevator is kinda moot, since Elevator is a true combo the speed of the second hit is irrelevant & if they DI the first hit Zelda can just aim it (easier said than done granted but it is certainly doable).

Honestly, I need someone (or me when I get home on Friday) to see how reliable Nair combos are on Rosa.

I was just trying to draw attention to the point that the elevator is pretty easy to react to, but I obviously didn't do a very good job at that. It's a very strong punish, but not a very reliable once since it can be DI'd (not to mention it's super risky). Unless the Zelda player is psychic and can predict where their opponent is going to DI every time, there are going to be whiffs and Zelda will get punished hard for those.

And I completely forgot to mention ledge trump>bair in my last post. This is actually quite viable to do against Rosalina because she is a large target, which aids greatly with getting the sweetspot bair on her. If the Rosalina doesn't watch out for that, they may lose a stock at a very early percent.

 

[evmaxy54]

I was just trying to draw attention to the point that the elevator is pretty easy to react to, but I obviously didn't do a very good job at that. It's a very strong punish, but not a very reliable once since it can be DI'd (not to mention it's super risky). Unless the Zelda player is psychic and can predict where their opponent is going to DI every time, there are going to be whiffs and Zelda will get punished hard for those.

And I completely forgot to mention ledge trump>bair in my last post. This is actually quite viable to do against Rosalina because she is a large target, which aids greatly with getting the sweetspot bair on her. If the Rosalina doesn't watch out for that, they may lose a stock at a very early percent.

You can get it on reaction, you have like 20 frames to input a direction & you can make a mental note on where they can go on where they can go depending on how close/far away the opponent is when you first get the FW1. For example, if they're hit by FW1 from the furthest point it can hit at; if they DI towards you, you can just go straight up & it'll catch them. If there is no DI you'll have to move very slightly towards them or else you get the sour spot & if they DI away you will need to go further towards them.

Edit: just updated my 3DS, falling Nair into buffered Usmash is guaranteed by the looks of it so yea this will be very important for this MU

 

[Zylach]

As a Zelda main and someone that's trying to pick up Rosie as a secondary, I feel like this MU, while not as bad as characters like Sheik and CFal, is definitely not in Zelda's favor. Rosie outranges Zelda, outspeeds Zelda, has an outstanding aerial game that's incredibly difficult to punish, and actually has a very powerful tool against Zelda offstage. After watching Dabuz yesterday at CEO, I feel like there are a few particular tools that Rosie has that Zelda can't deal with.

1. Jab. Zelda hates fast moves and hates fast moves with disjoints even more. Rosie's jab outspeeds all of Zelda's options and can followup from a landing nair, especially if Rosie cancels it such that Luma still attacks. While being fast and disjointed, the jab combo finisher can also kill at high percents and smart use of Luma makes her jab combo into a spinning whirlpool of shield destruction. Since Zelda is in shield so often, this is a problem. That said, without Luma, this becomes much less of a threat because its range is viciously reduced. That doesn't stop it from being fast and still having a pretty good disjoint anyway.

2. Tilts. Rosie's tilts are amazing. There is nothing more I need to say on this subject.

3. An air game: Any character with a solid air game is trouble for Zelda since she lacks mobility and having a solid air game means that character can be mobile while also pressuring Zelda's shield. Rosie's nair and bair alone should be tools enough to space safely against Zelda. The thing about nair, however, is that, should Zelda see it in time and be close enough, she can answer with a SH nair of her own before Rosie's nair works its way to the front of her body.

4. That tool Rosie has against Zelda offstage: Luma. Watching how Dabuz took one of Nairo's stocks yesterday by placing Luma right below the ledge and spamming jab combo worries me as a Zelda main because Zelda should always be aiming for the ledge when she recovers. Because this ought to hit us out of the ledge snap vulnerability, it forces Zelda to either keep trying for the ledge until it works (taking a ton of damage in the process I imagine) or teleport on stage where she can be usmashed. Granted, without Luma, this isn't an issue at all but it's a small window of time that Luma is gone and Zelda ought not to be sent flying offstage during this period anyway as Zelda has an opportunity, when Luma is gone, to actually push her advantage, not the other way around.

5. Uair. Rosie's uair. Enough said.

That said, Zelda has some good tools against Rosie that make this top tier girl less threatening than other top tiers.

1. The kill potential. Zelda will be killing Rosie earlier than Rosie kills Zelda save for a high uair. With proper DI, this hopefully won't be a threat to Zelda but, if Dabuz can do it constantly against the best players in the world, I'll bet most Rosie mains can do it against most people constantly. That said, Zelda's usmash kills at 90% now without rage. Zelda has a guaranteed nair>elevator kill at 80% without rage. Zelda's Lkicks can kill at 80% depending on stage position without rage. One airdodge can cost Rosie a stock in this MU.

2. The meteor smash. While Rosie has her Luma shenanigans against Zelda offstage, Zelda has one of the best meteor smashes in the game and against a character with no hitbox on her up-B recovery, that ought to warrant respect. Zelda also has multihit options she can abuse at the ledge to make Rosie recover high like Nayru's Love and nair. Furthermore, the softspike of phantom strike can come in handy offstage as well.

3. The OoS game. Rosie's OoS game is ok. Zelda's is amazing especially against a light, tall character. Nayru's Love OoS covers both sides of her and has intangibility frames from frame 5 to 11 so even autocancelled aerials that are misspaced on a shielding Zelda can't always be followed up before Zelda is in intangibility. FW OoS is often a free kill for Zelda. It doesn't come out on frame 11 though so it's not nearly as reliable as some of her other tools. The big one, though, is bair OoS. Rosie's height makes her particularly susceptible to this. It comes out on frame 6 so misspacing a move on Zelda's shield while she's not facing you is a death sentence. On tall characters, nair OoS works too though is less reliable than a lot of her other options. Same goes for jab and dtilt (dtilt comes out on frame 5 but I often find that I accidentally input a spotdodge when trying to dtilt OoS).

Using the Zelda boards rating system, I'd give default a score of 45:55 and using the Rosie board's rating system, I'd give this a +1.

Customs really help both characters so I'd say customs would be the same score since I feel they both benefit the same amount from them.

 

[Macchiato]

I summon...

@ S.F.L.R_9 @SBphiloz4 bcuz you gorls know this MU p well

@Latte bcuz #coffeepals

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

I don't really have much to say that hasn't been said already except = Zelda's imminent 20% death from uthrow > uair x2 , so always strike it

 

[Macchiato]

I don't really have much to say that hasn't been said already except = Zelda's imminent 20% death from uthrow > uair x2 , so always strike it

I'm the one who did that to you

 

[Crudedude]

Is your score for the default only setting?

sorry for default, customs I say +1 for rosie

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Zelda is being analyzed again for this week. If you have anything to contribute for the match-up, especially in regards to the newest software update, this is the place to do it.

 

[Zylach]

I'll just revise my old statement by saying that I've played some good Rosa's since then and now believe it to be

40:60

Rosa juggles Zelda to the ends of the Earth and should never be subject to Zelda's OoS game since Rosa can safely space literally anything thanks to Luma. Zelda can kill Luma easily but can't catch Rosie if Rosie chooses to play keep-away during that time. Zelda can't space with phantom outside of P1 or P2 and, even then, gravitational pull still shuts it down almost completely.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Nothing else really new since the last time we discussed it. Rosalinda kinda just holds the advantage till Zelda gets a stock lead since Rosalind never has to approach till she's at a stock deficit. Zelda has to get rid of Luma to fight Rosalind and other than Dins doesn't threaten Rosalind from a distance. Zelda still has the advantage on edgeguard though cause Rosalind's no hitbox straight recovery.

40:60

 

[Macchiato]

In the neutral game, getting rid of Luma is a big part of the match-up. Zelda doesn't need to approach in the beginning due to Rosalina not having any projectile. Although Din's Fire is very telegraphed, it's still a projectile, something Rosalina lacks. Something Zelda is very capable of due to her Dash Attack, Forward Smash, and Neutral Aerial. Din's Fire may look like a good way to remove Luma at first, but Din's Fire is too telegraphed and easy to dodge to be reliable. Most of the time, Luma will be gone which will limit Rosalina greatly. Rosalina can pressure us better than we can pressure her with Neutral Aerial, but we still can pressure her shield with safe Jabs and Down Tilts. We must watch carefully and catch all of her badly spaced Neutral Aerials. Due to her large hurtbox, we can easily land a Lightning Kick. When Luma is around, which is rarely, she can create a brick wall of Jabs. We can easily break through with a well timed Dash Attack. Rosalina's main game is zoning which is very diminished without Luma. What Zelda will want to do in this match-up is get rid of Luma, then get in. Rosalina can get a lot off of grabs, which can because a problem if we shield a lot. Fortunately for us, Nayru's Love will beat out grabs, but we can not use it recklessly. If we do, she could easily bait it and punish. Once we get to a certain percent, Rosalina can't get a throw combo anymore. We can jump out with no risk. Her Jab is fast, sets up for a Up Aerial String, and can kill. It will stop all reckless approaches from us. In the air, it might be very troublesome to land due to Rosalina's very disjointed anti-airs. Luckily, Zelda has good airspeed, so if the Zelda is smart, they can land. Most of the time, Zelda will want to go offstage to the ledge instead of directly landing on the stage. Both of each other's Dash Attacks can cover each other's landings. At higher percents, a whiffed grab from Rosalina can result in a Farore's Wind Up punish or a Lightning Kick. In the neutral, Rosalina will have to be very cautious and not make reckless decisions. If she is, then she will get punished hard. Zelda absolutely does better than Rosalina offstage. Down Tilt interrupts Lunar Launch at the ledge. It will not let her ledge snap. Her Recovery is also very susceptible to our Down Aerial. Our Down Aerial is easy to land and is very long lasting. Sometimes we can also Teleport Cancel and surprise her with an aerial. It is hard to predict and react. Rosalina should mix up her recovery angles and sometimes overshoot the ledge. If she predictable aims her recovery the same everytime, a Din's Fire can be projected to intercept. Rosalina can also edgeguard Zelda in some ways as well. She can catch Zelda at the one frame opening ledge snap with Down Aerial. She could also set Luma at the ledge to Rapid Jab. Fortunately, Zelda has some recovery tricks of her own which can easily avoid all of her edgeguarding. Zelda can overshoot the ledge to avoid. Recovering from above also shifts her ledgesnap hurtbox to a totally different area. A phantom will get rid of Luma at the ledge. Zelda cannot be predictable recovery because Rosalina can easily read and punish us. On the ledge, especially with Luma, Rosalina has a lot of ledge shenanigans. What isn't commonly known is that ledge attack will beat out Luma all of the time. Rosalina can bait it out, so do not overuse it. We don't struggle to get a kill either. In the "Playing Zelda" page, I went over her kill set-ups. Rosalina is no different, our kill set-ups work on her just like it does on every character. A badly timed Dash Attack or a whiffed Grab from Rosalina gives us a chance to land Farore's Wind Up or a Up Smash. Like I said earlier, Rosalina's large hurtbox makes her an easy target for Back Aerial or Forward Aerials which are great Out-Of-Shield Options. Forward Smash is also used frequently as a spacing tool depending on playstyle, so it is really possible to get a Forward Smash kill. It should be noted that Farore's Wind Up can kill Rosalina at the lowest percents with Rage. Rosalina's mostly likely used kill moves in this match-up will be Up Smash and Up Aerial. Up Smash is strong and has high priority; It will catch our landings. Up Aerial can kill us at ridiculous percents depending on where we are. Overall, we have the advantage in getting K.Os. Stage preference is very dependent on play style, but generally, Zelda wants a lower ceiling stage like Duck Hunt. In conclusion, Zelda can stand her ground in neutral and can deal with Rosalina. This match up is most likely even and possibly in Zelda's favor.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Macchiato : Can you please not make a wall of text like that. At least make new paragraphs to put less strain on the users who are reading you post.

Also, am I to understand that your score input under default conditions is now even? Be sure to look at the scoring system that's shown at the directory thread.

 

[Macchiato]

Macchiato : Can you please not make a wall of text like that. At least make new paragraphs to put less strain on the users who are reading you post.

Also, am I to understand that your score input under default conditions is now even? Be sure to look at the scoring system that's shown at the directory thread.

Sorry about that

0 for both default and customs which is even

 

[Zolda]

K here we go
Before we begin, let's get some things out of the way. Rosalina is top/high tier. Zelda is "bottom" tier. Obviously there's going to be preconceptions on both sides that this is obviously in Rosalina's favour due to the pessimistic views of many Zelda mains and, well, the egotism of being top tier.
I don't think so.
First, let's start with Rosa.
Rosalina:
+ excellent spacing with and without Luma
+ Jab that interrupts pretty much anything
+ Luma gives her great kill power
+ u air kills off the top with Luma
+ comboes out of her u throw, d throw, and b throw (depending on DI)
+ Decent speed
+ Decent aerials
+ F tilt
+ Ledge cover options (through Luma or aerials)
- Tall, easy to hit
- Very light
- Dies really early
- Some characters take Luma out with ease, removing some kill power and spacing tools.
- Recovery
Zelda:
+ Excellent kill power
+ Early kills & early kill set ups
+ Great offstage game
+ Very strong follow ups out of down throw (depending on DI)
+ Excellent ledge trump options
- Tall, easy to hit
- God awful neutral
- Slow and laggy
- Requires a great deal of proper spacing and zoning
- Light weight

Now into the meat of this match up.

Rosalina is basically Zelda with less kill power and faster attacks and overall speed. Luma is basically a respawnable familiar containing Zelda's kill power. With Luma, Rosa is great and can do a lot of damage.

Here's the problem.

Zelda bodies Luma. Over half of our moveset can take the sad little thing out easily. Without Luma, Rosa's approach kind of... sucks. It's like as bad as ours. Zelda can't approach, and Rosa can't approach. Rosa will have to use speed to her advantage here.

Zelda kills Rosa faster than Rosa kills Zelda. We have overall better kill power than Rosa does.

Rosa's Tilts (against Zelda)
F tilt: Great spacing tool. This can help keep Zelda out. Luma helps with this also, but against a good Zelda, your Luma's going to be dead most of the time.
D tilt: Awkward. This can be used for spacing. It can also knock you out of some grabs if Luma is alive.
U tilt: Sure, it has a lot of kill power with Luma. Luma's dead, tho. Rip. This will have niche application since we usually don't want to be right above you (or anyone), but I suppose it can stop us from getting set ups with d air (yea, we have set ups stfu).

Rosa's Smashes
F smash: Kill move. Will do the job if you don't have Luma, but at slightly high percentages.
D smash: Lame. This move comes out really fast (likes ours did in brawl) and can help get Zelda off of you.
U smash: Annoying hitboxes will help seal the kill if you catch us in the air with it.

Rosa's Aerials
N air: This is a neat move. At high percent, SH N air can catch people off guard with Luma. Luma's dead tho so...
*Zelda's F tilt beats Rosa's N air
F air: Follow up from B throw if U throw and D throw follow ups aren't available because Luma. Also for catching off stage. Can also hit with it and land to cause a spike which can follow up to D smash. Not a bad move.
U air: The one and only. This move let's you get your low % KOs on us. If Luma is alive. And it's not. So you can just use this to try and cover your ledge return or keep your vertical area covered.
D air: Lasting hitboxes interrupt Farore's Wind. Unfortunately, yours is really weak, so it won't do much here. Don't even think about Luma's d air lol.
Rosa's Recovery
God awful. If anything, this is what makes the match up. Your recovery is so bad, we can either:
A. Shut it down with D air and get easy (and early) kills.
B. Stop it at the ledge with d tilt, leading to follow ups
C. Niche usage, but it's possible for Phantom to wall your recovery and stop you from getting back to the ledge.
D. Ledge trump. Zelda has great ledge trump options. Rosa also probably doesn't have what it takes to get back on stage without getting punished hard. Your recovery is also linear enough for us to do this with ease.

Luma

(If Luma is alive somehow, it can't edgeguard us with jab since we can just hit it from below if we want to, or with Phantom. OR we could send out phantom and hit you for being greedy instead )

Killing
Ok, we're both lightweight. We're gonna be dying early. Zelda has better kill power than you. Zelda's elevator will kill you earlier than you can kill her. With full rage, you're seeing a death at 30%. (I did this against Frozen on ladder )

Rosa needs Luma for a lot of her kill potential, but in this case, you have moderate kill power due to our weight. However, you're so utterly helpless offstage, you're probably going to be dying early.

Stages
Rosa loves platforms in this match up. Your aerials give you advantages over us, and platforms help with that.

Other notes:
Down B makes phantom unusable here, but still a safe option due to our endlags.
Down B doesn't absorb Din's. This can help to stop approach against Rosa or (god knows how) force an approach. It also hits Luma for the EZ kill.) Rosa's speed lets her easily get past this, though, so don't worry about it.
Nayru's Love doesn't reflect Starbits. Starbits aren't actually possible to reflect.

60:40 Zelda's favour

You die at sad percents. Use your speed wisely in this matchup, since Zelda is sooooo slooooow and it'll primarily be Rosalina without Luma. Make full usage of your zoning, too.
Zelda's lame space clone loses this one