Meta Rosalina Match-Up Analysis R2 - Bowser

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Rosalina Match-Up Analysis R2 - Bowser

Welcome to the Rosalina vs. Bowser match-up analysis thread. This thread will be used to analyze Rosalina's match-up against Bowser. For all the rules on the round 2 match-up discussions, please refer to the directory thread.

Last Updated: 1/17/2016

Special Moves Allowed| |
Default only | | +1.5 - +2
Default + Custom | | +2

Spoiler: Score Inputs

Default only
MagiusNecros: +2
miniada: +2
UltimaLuminaire: +2
Zapp Branniglenn: ±0 - +1

Default + Custom
MagiusNecros: +2
UltimaLuminaire: +2

 

[MagiusNecros]

Bowser has a better time with Dash Slash. We can either go in and murder Luma quickly and get an advantage or use it to get out.

We have our jab traps and grab game but if we get in the air we won't want to challenge many of Rosalina's attacks.

Without customs it will be very hard to get in and we may have to resort to Jabs and Ftilts. And of course the legendary OoS Fortress.

Since both characters are defensive by nature I would think it depends on the player.

No customs +2 in Rosalina's favor.

Customs +2 in Rosalina's favor.

Of the good Rosalina's I've faced I either lost or it was really close.

 

[ChikoLad]

Since both characters are defensive by nature I would think it depends on the player.

Just chiming in to say this is not true at all for Rosalina. Just because the current top Rosalina player plays her defensively, doesn't mean it's necessarily the optimal way. The optimal way to play her is as a paradigm shifter.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Just chiming in to say this is not true at all for Rosalina. Just because the current top Rosalina player plays her defensively, doesn't mean it's necessarily the optimal way. The optimal way to play her is as a paradigm shifter.

Defensive by "nature".

I did not say aggressive playstyles don't exist.

 

[ChikoLad]

Defensive by "nature".

I did not say aggressive playstyles don't exist.

But she isn't even defensive by nature. She is a paradigm shifter by nature.

And I never even specified offensive playstyles as the sole alternative myself.

 

[MagiusNecros]

But she isn't even defensive by nature. She is a paradigm shifter by nature.

And I never even specified offensive playstyles as the sole alternative myself.

I'm dumb. What do you mean by Paradigm Shifter? Not familiar with the phrase.

Anywho I gave my thoughts on the matchup. Bowser wants to be on the ground and Rosa wants Bowser in the air. Not really my favorite matchup.

 

[ChikoLad]

I'm dumb. What do you mean by Paradigm Shifter? Not familiar with the phrase.

Anywho I gave my thoughts on the matchup. Bowser wants to be on the ground and Rosa wants Bowser in the air. Not really my favorite matchup.

A paradigm is a set of roles split between multiple individuals. So in the context of a fighting game, or in Rosalina's case, this means, as a paradigm shifter, she is at her best when her player is constantly switching up their tactics by changing what roles Rosalina and Luma serve in the fight, otherwise known as a paradigm shift. So having both Rosalina and Luma play defensively is one paradigm. Having them both play offensively is another. Having Rosalina play defensively and Luma offensively is another. And so on, and so forth.

It's not just limited to offensive and defensive roles either, there's a bunch of other roles they can fill too.

Mastering the art of paradigms is where Rosalina's true strength in this game lies. If you can readily shift paradigms as her according to your opponent's tactics and strategies, her performance improves drastically as opposed to just having both Rosalina & Luma focus on defense all of the time. Sticking to one paradigm defeats the purpose of even using this character to begin with.

 

[MagiusNecros]

A paradigm is a set of roles split between multiple individuals. So in the context of a fighting game, or in Rosalina's case, this means, as a paradigm shifter, she is at her best when her player is constantly switching up their tactics by changing what roles Rosalina and Luma serve in the fight, otherwise known as a paradigm shift. So having both Rosalina and Luma play defensively is one paradigm. Having them both play offensively is another. Having Rosalina play defensively and Luma offensively is another. And so on, and so forth.

It's not just limited to offensive and defensive roles either, there's a bunch of other roles they can fill too.

Mastering the art of paradigms is where Rosalina's true strength in this game lies. If you can readily shift paradigms as her according to your opponent's tactics and strategies, her performance improves drastically as opposed to just having both Rosalina & Luma focus on defense all of the time. Sticking to one paradigm defeats the purpose of even using this character to begin with.

So in English you just switch between aggressive and defensive tactics in a match. Which you haven't clarified. Mind stating what the other "roles" in your PS is other then "there are more roles".

You aren't making much sense. You never have.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

@ MagiusNecros : We are no longer using the ratio system. Be sure to modify your scores so that they follow the new rules that are in the directory thread.

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

@ MagiusNecros In English, they're saying that Luma should be doing the opposite of what Rosalina is doing: being aggressive when she's on the defense. Please don't add "never have" to the end of the post. That's mildly insulting and off-topic.

Sup, players! Thanks for paging the King of Awesome. We mostly consider this MU to be a +2 in your favor. Click the spoiler tags below for the score and break-down based on your perspective, as required by the Rosalina MU thread rules.

Default Only

Spoiler

+2: moderate advantage
triumphs in the neutral game for this MU thanks to Luma Shot and the inherent strength of Luma's zoning. This isn't even getting into your natural priority on ground and air moves, either. At no point can your opponent, , think to dictate the match until Luma is destroyed, and going after Luma, as we all know, leaves wide open for all sorts of punishment. If tries to be tricky, has every tool at her disposal to condition her opponent into committing to defensive options. If catches Luma in flame breath, that might give a little control back to , but you could simply close the distance and be ready to punish your opponent should they try something as laggy as flame breath again, exerting more pressure. If out-right approaches, like with a dash attack, running UpB, or an SHADC UpB, this would be completely in favor thanks to her jab clanking with all of those options and forcing to try again from a much worse position. Needless to say, you'll be shutting down more pressure from your opponent thanks to these above factors.

In the air, has nothing to fear. Nothing except a poorly spaced DAir into your opponent's USmash, but that's a hard read so you should mix it up with fade-away BAir or Fair. Afterall, can't follow you into the air for follow-ups. What is he gonna do? Smash his face into your Dair or Uair? BAir doesn't even have any disjoint, so he can't even trade with you. Be confident, and use your peerless attacks in the air to condition your opponent into one of their many bad options.

Default + Custom

Spoiler

+2: moderate advantage
Can Luma Warp and Shooting Star Bit in this MU, which negates attempting to beat Luma en route with anything but fire and it prevents your opponent from safely approaching the entire match, regardless of distance. The amount of pressure that you gain just from these two moves is enough to send this MU straight back into +2 territory despite the huge mobility gain from Dash Slash. In fact, most are still learning this movement tool and are liable to (jump and) use it at the worst times. This isn't just the player's fault, because Dash Slash is not a cure-all for 's deficiency in neutral. At the very least, what advantage it would have is quickly overshadowed by standard A game and your amazing customs. Please stride forward with confidence that nothing has really changed with customs on. It just makes the MU slightly more swingy since customs do allow your opponent to punish something unsafe from farther away. Risk vs. reward is still solidly with .

Please let me know if I did this correctly. Thank you for your time and stay awesome, RosaLuma players!

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

@ UltimaLuminaire : Is your score for "Default only", or does it also apply to "Default + Custom"?

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

@ Mario & Sonic Guy Default + Custom. I couldn't justify giving them different scores based on my experience locally.

Edit: Oh, my bad. Thanks for informing me.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

@ UltimaLuminaire : I guess what I mean is that when you're giving score inputs, it's vital that you state if they're for "Default only", "Default + Custom", or both.

You see, the "Default + Custom" category is for the allowance of "any" special move options, while the "Default only" category only allows the use of the default 1111 special moves.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I amended my previous post. I would say +2 in Rosalina's favor for both Default and Default+Custom.

Rosalina has a lot of options and we Bowser players don't.

Thanks Ultima, your explanation regarding Rosalina and Luma makes sense. Opposites attract after all.

 

[miniada]

I main bowser I believe it's +2:-2 rosalina can juggle bowser and edgeguard him as well. SHe can apply pressure to him and it's a pain since he's a big fat target. Bowser has a hard time getting in on her. And her dair ouprioritizes half if not all our moves. Luma shot will be a pain for bowser to deal with and it basically dominates the entire netural game. If bowser tries to rush in and go for luma rosa has god knows how many options to punish him. Rosas jab clank and stops with bowsers approach options. So yeah not a good mu for bowser.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Bowser is being analyzed again for this week. If you have anything to contribute for the match-up, especially in regards to the newest software update, this is the place to do it.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Only thing you'll have to watch out for occasionally is when Bowser grabs you and goes for Uthrow and Luma is in the same area as Rosalina the Luma can sometimes be forcefully pushed out at an angle. At the edge of a stage this can mean death to Luma.

Now if Luma is to the side a bit away from Rosalina then the Luma will be completely safe from the push out thing Bowser does.

Only thing I can really notice. I don't think the core matchup changes much. If a Rosa knows what they are doing they probably won't get grabbed.

 

[pitfall356]

Since 1.1.3 Bowser gets miles off of grabs now and can reliably kill Rosa much, much earlier. Wracking up to 30% with a simple uthrow nair combo (but more often 24%) means Bowser can get her there swiftly and without mercy. Uthrow to uair also kills fast, so Rosa wants to play even harder now to avoid being thrown.

Bowser can also recover backwards now, making it much safer to edgeguard or recover if somehow turned around.

That said, I don't think the MU has changed much. Yes, Bowser has gotten a more convenient way of sealing stocks as well as getting huge damage, but nothing else is different. Just make sure you stop Bowser from getting in and grabbing and we're back to where we started.

Just like the other top tiers, what a horrible MU for Bowser. rip in koopa 11/10 would cry nd die again press'd b to pay respects

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I'm actually wildly optimistic about Bowser's chances with Rosalina. The new Uthrow collateral hit will delete Luma off the stage very commonly on small stages like Battlefield, or on platforms. Even if it's not killed, it's hit far enough away that Luma shouldn't be able to interrupt Uthrow followups. Fire Breath desyncs Luma, even when Rosalina is shielding or dodging. And if we get within punching distance of it, a double Dtilt clocks ~40% damage from Luma's 50% health. I don't know why, but the first Dtilt fails to launch luma and keeps him within range of the first swipe of a second use. And our limbs are intangible during active hit frames, so trades aren't as common as with other heavies trying to do the same thing.

It's important to discuss how your character kills luma, because Rosalina without it has no chance against Bowser. And a heavyweight's high damage output puts us miles above other, sheik-er characters who deal damage in increments of 5%. We deal 10-24% per hit, with most moves separating the two characters on hit or block. Our improved offstage edgeguarding is also a big deal. But the new Uthrow combos aren't that important. Grabbing Rosalina when Luma is alive is just about one of the hardest things you could ever do, and her falling stats are exceptionally good for avoiding followups at higher damage. Thankfully most of our other kill moves are also vertical, so Flying Slam and Bowser Bomb are just as likely to secure the stock at 60-70%.

Luma being around severely hinders our jab followups. And her throws aren't weight based, so Bowser will receive maximum punishment for being grabbed. There's still a lot I'd like to lab here, but among top tiers, I feel Rosalina is the most reasonable matchup for Bowser. 55:45 for her.

 

[Cronoc]

Uthrow has weird interactions with luma, but for what it's worth I've been hit coming out of the uthrow animation numerous times, preventing a followup. It really depends whether Luma gets caught in it or not.

Edit: after 90 minutes of playing a very good Rosalina, if uthrow doesn't hit luma or luma isn't far away or gone, Bowser will not be able to follow up. Even early percent uthrow->utilt won't work because it'll clank with Luma, putting Bowser in a punishable state. The take-away: Rosa is safe from our throw combos while luma is nearby, as long as luma doesn't get hit by uthrow. This is a matchup where the bulk of Bowser's damage will be gotten while luma is offscreen. But be careful, cause we can catch up fast once luma is gone. Also, Rosa's ridiculous hitboxes really shine on a character of Bowser's size, and it's annoying.