Data Rosalina Match-Up Analysis (Obsolete & Succeeded)

[mario123007]

60:40 whose favor?

Rosalina of course.
And furthermore, although KingDeDeDe has a good recovery, but easily get punished in air. Unless King DeDeDe use his Up B, I really wonder who will win, King DeDeDe's B, or Rosalina's Up air/Up Smash?

Seeing as the match-up is supposed to be under Rosalina's perspective at this sub-forum, 60:40 should mean that the match-up favors Rosalina. Of course, not everyone follows this routine.

Yep.

 

[shrooby]

oh hey, this is neat since I started using Rosalina as a secondary.

With customs on I give this a pretty big advantage to Rosalina.
Otherwise it's not gigantic, but it's not a cakewalk for us.
We get juggled very easily, and Rosalina is one of the best jugglers in the game. Thankfully, we're the least prone to getting KOd by upair since Dedede is the hardest character to KO vertically, but it adds up.
We're not terrible in neutral. Our hitboxes are larger than yours even with Luma. They may be slower, but it can be hard for characters without the right tools to punish if they're spaced decently.
Be wary of ftilt in particular as it's not good for Luma. Even if safely shielded, the big, lingering hitbox can still really hurt Luma.

Even with Gravitational Pull, Gordos can be annoying to deal with as Rosalina. GP is fairly simple to punish, so if you use it too obviously just once, you're in for a mighty blow. Other than that, Rosalina can have trouble with Gordo since her hitboxes just aren't the best for that. Best bet if you're aiming for reflecting is Shooting Star Bit if customs are on. But you shouldn't always aim for reflecting it.
Shielding or just getting out of the way are probably the safest options for Rosalina. Mix it up with GP so it's harder for Dedede to trap with Gordo.
Also keep in mind that our upair is almost as amazing as yours. Don't try to challenge it with down-air unless you're able to sneak past the hitbox just barely and hit Dedede's head. And be wary if Dedede has his back to you in the air. Bair is fast, strong and has a large hitbox.

 

[mario123007]

oh hey, this is neat since I started using Rosalina as a secondary.

With customs on I give this a pretty big advantage to Rosalina.
Otherwise it's not gigantic, but it's not a cakewalk for us.
We get juggled very easily, and Rosalina is one of the best jugglers in the game. Thankfully, we're the least prone to getting KOd by upair since Dedede is the hardest character to KO vertically, but it adds up.
We're not terrible in neutral. Our hitboxes are larger than yours even with Luma. They may be slower, but it can be hard for characters without the right tools to punish if they're spaced decently.
Be wary of ftilt in particular as it's not good for Luma. Even if safely shielded, the big, lingering hitbox can still really hurt Luma.

Even with Gravitational Pull, Gordos can be annoying to deal with as Rosalina. GP is fairly simple to punish, so if you use it too obviously just once, you're in for a mighty blow. Other than that, Rosalina can have trouble with Gordo since her hitboxes just aren't the best for that. Best bet if you're aiming for reflecting is Shooting Star Bit if customs are on. But you shouldn't always aim for reflecting it.
Shielding or just getting out of the way are probably the safest options for Rosalina. Mix it up with GP so it's harder for Dedede to trap with Gordo.
Also keep in mind that our upair is almost as amazing as yours. Don't try to challenge it with down-air unless you're able to sneak past the hitbox just barely and hit Dedede's head. And be wary if Dedede has his back to you in the air. Bair is fast, strong and has a large hitbox.

Great, I welcome you to join her social thread too.
King DeDeDe's gordos are annoying, but it still can backfire him too if Rosalina hit the gordos back at the right time, or GP it.
The only unfavorabke spot of Rosalina for this MU is her light weight meets a strong and heavy weight attackers, even though King DeDeDe is slow, but it may just take only a few strong punches for him to KO Rosalina, that's a thing Rosalina needs to aware of.

 

[shrooby]

Great, I welcome you to join her social thread too.
King DeDeDe's gordos are annoying, but it still can backfire him too if Rosalina hit the gordos back at the right time, or GP it.
The only unfavorabke spot of Rosalina for this MU is her light weight meets a strong and heavy weight attackers, even though King DeDeDe is slow, but it may just take only a few strong punches for him to KO Rosalina, that's a thing Rosalina needs to aware of.

Maybe I will!

A good Dedede doesn't toss Gordos in a way that can backfire. You can't rely on that. Most of the Gordos in this match-up will be in close quarters. If you try reflecting them or using GP, then you'll get punished if the Gordo is shielded since those options are laggy.

 

[manueluno]

@ manueluno : Does your ratio input favor King Dedede? At Rosalina's sub-forum, we're analyzing match-ups by Rosalina's perspective.

Yes.

 

[Ritronaut]

Will we have to repeat this grueling process of matchup discussions again after the balance patches? These are very helpful but don't seem to be too logical if Nintendo is going to start consistently releasing balance patches, which I doubt they will, this is probably the last one. However, some of these matchups could drastically change, especially if Rosalina loses some of her options with the patch.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Will we have to repeat this grueling process of matchup discussions again after the balance patches? These are very helpful but don't seem to be too logical if Nintendo is going to start consistently releasing balance patches, which I doubt they will, this is probably the last one. However, some of these matchups could drastically change, especially if Rosalina loses some of her options with the patch.

We will analyze each fighter again once the whole non-DLC roster has been fully covered.

 

[mario123007]

Maybe I will!

A good Dedede doesn't toss Gordos in a way that can backfire. You can't rely on that. Most of the Gordos in this match-up will be in close quarters. If you try reflecting them or using GP, then you'll get punished if the Gordo is shielded since those options are laggy.

Well, maybe, but a good Rosalina will do a great air game on KD3, and try to punish him on edge. And try not yo get too many damage.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

King Dedede's discussion period is now over. And as usual, I've added up all the ratio inputs for the Rosalina vs. King Dedede match-up, to get an overall average.

[51:49]

The match-up appears to be almost even here.

Next up, we'll be analyzing Rosalina's match-up against Charizard.

 

[mario123007]

Charizard

• Slow but powerful attacks, like King DeDeDe can KO Rosalina easily.
• Pretty great recovery
• Flare blitz can be a move to KO Rosalina at low percentage (But it can also does some damage to itself)

Rosalina & Luma

• Great edge guard against Charizard
• Combo move advantage when Luma is around
• Easily get damage if Luma is gone

I'll give my ratio later....still need more information to this MU.
Edit:
i give 60:40

 

[Puppyfaic]

Charizard is a weird case. He actually has the speed necessary to keep up with Rosalina, as well as beating her in KO power. I feel like this matchup (Bet you've heard this a million times) relies strictly on whether or not Luma is alive. However, this is also an issue in which Charizard can easily dispatch Luma just by Flare Blitzing. He probably requires the least effort out of any character to kill off Luma. It's hard to really go into specifics with this matchup, but I do have experience with it and am going to actually make this matchup 55:45 Rosalina's Favor.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

One thing I'm not sure about. If Luma is linked to Rosalina and Charizard uses Flare Blitz, will he still hit Rosalina or is Luma enough of a buffer to keep her safe?

Also the Dragon Rush custom goes right through Luma.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Rosalina's got a really defensive play style, and that really, really stinks for the Zard.

We can't get close to you guys as long as Luma is around.

However, this is also an issue in which Charizard can easily dispatch Luma just by Flare Blitzing.

That's a pretty bad idea. Not only does Zard take 9% recoil every time he does that, he also leaves himself open to a punish from Rosalina if she manages to shield herself(and thanks to Zard's start up lag, you guys usually can).

One thing I'm not sure about. If Luma is linked to Rosalina and Charizard uses Flare Blitz, will he still hit Rosalina or is Luma enough of a buffer to keep her safe?

The explosion is meant to hurt multiple fighters in free-for-alls, so Rosalina will be caught up in the blast as well.

 

[DisidisiD]

One thing I'm not sure about. If Luma is linked to Rosalina and Charizard uses Flare Blitz, will he still hit Rosalina or is Luma enough of a buffer to keep her safe?

Also the Dragon Rush custom goes right through Luma.

The explosion is meant to hurt multiple fighters in free-for-alls, so Rosalina will be caught up in the blast as well.

Zach is right. It still affects her. Even is you use Guardian Luma, the AOE of explosion still hits rosalina.

 

[Steeler]

You don't really Blitz just for Luma, it's usually not worth the punish if Rosa shields it. You wanna Flamethrower because it has a lot of range and is free damage while still safely pressuring Rosa. Flamethrower is by far the most important move Zard has, it lets him whittle away at Luma health while keeping himself relatively safe. It's also very free damage on a Rosa that has to up b sweetspot the ledge. Rosa's combination of size and weight also makes her slightly more susceptible to Zard's strong out of shield punishes than usual. Dragon Rush is a very good move to just kind of disregard Luma but I haven't used it much in this matchup. Rosa has very strong juggles with uair and can combo it out of early stock grabs. Zard is actually pretty difficult to gimp, Blitz and Rush let Zard sweetspot the ledge from far away and Blitz has heavy armor. Fly has super armor. He can also Rock Smash/Hurl through stuff with super armor. You basically always need to be aware of the possibility of Zard hitting through your stuff, which can definitely kill at 100 or even lower depending on stage position, especially with rage. And Zard doesn't mind constantly trading because of the huge weight difference. I think the matchup is fairly evenish.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

On paper, the match up seems one sided, but it's surprisingly even.

Luma's defensive prowess and Rosaluma's campiness is certainly troublesome for Zard. He has problems getting in while Luma's around.

But once Luma is gone, Rosalina needs to step up her game.

Because without Luma, Rosalina has almost no counters to Zard.

Zard has more range and power and is quick enough to capitalize on it. And he has enough strength to send Rosalina flying very easily.

And frankly without Luma, Rosalina isn't strong enough to kill someone of his weight without REALLY working for it.

It all hinges on Luma.

Zard has one counter to Luma though.

Luma is obliterated by Rock Smash.

Do not let Luma get hit by Rock Smash.

Luma will take severe damage (potentially killing it) but will also be smacked away leaving Rosalina vulnerable.

Don't attack Zard from the front directly or you risk him using his counter move to screw over your best asset.

 

[Macchiato]

I wish I could talk like I knew about charizard but I don't.

 

[mario123007]

I wish I could talk like I knew about charizard but I don't.

Alright, I give 60:40. I'll put this ratio in my previous post.

 

[Shanoa]

Charizard can be a very annoying opponent to deal with as Rosalina. Here are some things that make the MU difficult:

-Uair juggles are risky and require some good reads in order to be successful. Charizard has many options to punish and avoid our juggles, the scariest option being the Rock Smash; which allows Charizard to Super Armor our attacks and throw out a truck-load of damage that can kill Luma or actually kill us in the process, punishing us for being lightweight and close to the blastzone.

Charizard can also airdodge beneath us and punish with a Super Armored Fly which is basically impossible to stop and can kill us very early.

-Flare Blitz sadly hits us and kills Luma if it connects with an attached Luma but it's very easy for us to abuse detached Luma's hurtboxes to do a fair trade and sacrifice Luma for a punish.

-We do not enjoy Flamethrower shenanigans, whether we are getting edgeguarded or if Luma is getting roasted like a marshmellow with us.

-Charizard has many options that can kill Luma (Up-B, Down-B, Side-B, Tilts, Aerials, Jab?), and his ability to outlast us is very bad as he has a lot of great kill moves that will kill lightweights like Rosalina earlier.


I guess I'll give this MU a 48-52 in Charizard's favor. The matchup is not so bad for us but Charizard shuts down some of our best options. With customs, I think the MU leans a bit more in Charizard's favor but not by much as our customs keeps the MU balanced. I'd say 47-53 at least.

 

[Parcheesy]

I realized I probably should make a post when the character in discussion is one I've put a fair bit of time into. As others have said, it's not terrible for Charizard because he has the armor on several of his hardest hitting attacks that he can use on a read to punish Rosalina and Luma. The thing that tips the matchup in Rosalina's favor is she doesn't need to make these hard reads to win the matchup; she has plenty of ways she can take advantage of Charizard's large frame, and generally laggy attacks without the inherent risk that comes with everything Charizard does. As long as the Rosalina doesn't get read, and stays loose enough to avoid and punish Rock Smashes, she should win against an equally skilled Charizard.

Going to go with 65-35 for Rosalina.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

@ Shanoa : Just so you know, any ratio input that you make needs to be divisible by 5. As such I've put you down as 50:50.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Charizard's discussion period will be ending an hour early tonight, so here's the overall average that I've gotten after adding up all the Rosalina vs. Charizard ratio inputs.

[57.5:42.5]

The match-up seems to favor Rosalina slightly, but the outcome will probably depend more on if Rosalina can keep her Luma safe from Charizard's onslaughts.

Anyway, since Charizard's discussion period has ended early, Villager's discussion period will start early as a result.

 

[tconan]

Villager pros:
His fair, bair, and side b make him a very good zoner.
Has a really good edgeguarding game against Rosalina with the bowling ball and his aerials.
Disjointed hitboxes make his juggling game really good.
Rosalina and Luma pros:
Luma blocks some of Villager's zoning tools.
Down B makes side b somewhat less useful for Villager although down b should only be used mid-long range.
Can edgeguard and juggle Villager, but Villager is better at it.

Overall, Rosalina and Luma are forced to go on the offensive and time their moves correctly in order for them to get in on Villager.
45:55, Villager has a slight advantage imo.

 

[AnchorTea]

Oh boy, Rosalina.

When Villager is FORCED to approach the opponent, it's a bad MU for Villager already.

 

[Antonykun]

Heyo Villager main here who loves to play as Rosa from time to time

Oh boy, Rosalina.

When Villager is FORCED to approach the opponent, it's a bad MU for Villager already.

Rosalina is tall enough to get hit by a SH Rising F-air and a close ranged Slingshot eats luma alive. It's RosaLuma who have to approach.

Of course Rosa has the tools to approach Villager. For example her crouch hides from slingshots and her dash attack is a strong burst movement.

Lloyd creates a huge Mixup where it forces her to take a bad decision assuming Villager reads the decision.

Of course both characters have amazing advantages against each other with their juggles and edguardings.

Only Villager's n-air and jabs can keep up with Luma's frame data but at the same time it's relatively plausible to destroy luma

I normally don't do MU Scores anymore but I'd wager it's a 50:50 Customs is an entire can of Worms though

 

[AnchorTea]

Heyo Villager main here who loves to play as Rosa from time to time


Rosalina is tall enough to get hit by a SH Rising F-air and a close ranged Slingshot eats luma alive. It's RosaLuma who have to approach.

Of course Rosa has the tools to approach Villager. For example her crouch hides from slingshots and her dash attack is a strong burst movement.

Lloyd creates a huge Mixup where it forces her to take a bad decision assuming Villager reads the decision.

Of course both characters have amazing advantages against each other with their juggles and edguardings.

Only Villager's n-air and jabs can keep up with Luma's frame data but at the same time it's relatively plausible to destroy luma

I normally don't do MU Scores anymore but I'd wager it's a 50:50 Customs is an entire can of Worms though

You forgot Rosalina's Gravitational Pull. Which removes a 1/3rd of our options, and with Luma, our approach options are very limited, and Villager is already bad at approaching.

 

[Antonykun]

You forgot Rosalina's Gravitational Pull. Which removes a 1/3rd of our options, and with Luma, our approach options are very limited, and Villager is already bad at approaching.

Gravitational pull has a ton of Cooldown and slingshots hit at midrange because she is THAT tall so as long as you stay at midrange you can punish GP. also GP does absolutely nothing to stop an approaching Villager because Lloyd isn't meant to hit people and Villager won't get hit by GP!Slingshot

 

[Claire Diviner]

Other than the Slingshot, Villager doesn't have much in the way of range vs. Rosalina's attacks. Sure, there's Lloyd, but those aren't really a detriment. I would honestly give this matchup a 55:45 in Rosalina's favor. While Villager has interesting options, including kill moves, Rosalina's range beats anything that isn't Fair/Bair and Lloyd.

As a side note, Rosalina can use GP on Lloyd, but only if Villager isn't riding it. Otherwise, GP does nothing.

 

[OneManArmy77]

I do not have the experience with competitive players that the majority of you seem to have, but I wanted to chime in more about this thread in general. Browsing much of the thread, the trend is that most of the Rosa mains have more diverse opinions (MUs in favor of Rosa are about as common as those against, matchup dependent, but with a slight bias towards Rosa generally speaking), but that people that come into this thread maining the character MU being discussed say that the MU is in favor of their character (probably 80-90% of the time), rendering most of the averages being skewed towards the opposing character more than they probably should be. I think the usefulness of this thread is also dramatically decreased simply by the lack of votes on some of the matchups. I assume that many of you are resistant to changing the thread structure, but I believe that having Rosa mains rank matchups into tiers based on relative difficulty (ie harder matchups, medium matchups and easier matchups) instead of in a vaccum, and then discuss tips and strategies against specific opponents would be a better format.

An example (emphasis on example) of this would be me ranking Shiek, Pikachu and Diddy are the hardest matchups for me, with Sonic, Wario, Lucario and Villager being the next hardest matchups and Bowser, DK and Ness being my easiest matchups, etc...

Then, instead of ranking these matchups as 40-60 or 70-30 or 5-95, you just mark something like a +2 for each character you rank as one of your hardest matchups, +1 for hard ones, -1 for easy ones and -2 for the easiest. This would also allow you to have everyone rank every character, instead of forcing people to vote on characters that they know a lot less about and prohibiting both discussion and ranking of previously discussed character. You then end up with an average ranking for each character that should naturally divide itself into tiers. Like I mentioned above, you could also create a compendium listing what the opponent wants to do in the matchups, what of Rosa's moves work well here, and what to watch out for. Otherwise, I think these rankings are rather meaningless and the whole point based system only confuses people more (people's concept of what a 60-40 matchup means vs what we have designated it to be seem to be very different).

Thanks for reading, and I hope you guys consider changing the format

 

[mario123007]

Villager

• Many attacks have high knockbacks.
• Side Smash is really, really deadly. But slow too. You often need to use Down Smash first then punish with Side Smash.
• Dash attack also has wide range.
• Loid rocket is good for zoning.
• Powerful grabs.
• Has the best recovery in Smash, can easily take Rosalina off stage with a good air game.

Rosalina & Luma

• Attacks have larger hitboxs, which isn't hard to hit Villager.
• Luma can also give Villager some pressure.
• GP can deall most of Villager's projectiles.
• Easily be punished when recover, a good Villager knows it's best...

Overall, Villager isn't that weak when comparing the attacks, so I say this match up is pretty even.

I give 50:50

 

[Antonykun]

Other than the Slingshot, Villager doesn't have much in the way of range vs. Rosalina's attacks. Sure, there's Lloyd, but those aren't really a detriment. I would honestly give this matchup a 55:45 in Rosalina's favor. While Villager has interesting options, including kill moves, Rosalina's range beats anything that isn't Fair/Bair and Lloyd.

As a side note, Rosalina can use GP on Lloyd, but only if Villager isn't riding it. Otherwise, GP does nothing.

Villager wants you to GP the Lloyd tho that way he grabs you

 

[mario123007]

Villager wants you to GP the Lloyd tho that way he grabs you

Better not to abuse the move GP, or else it will give an opening for Villager to punish.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Villager wants you to GP the Lloyd tho that way he grabs you

Which is why Rosalina is better off shielding it, unless she's far enough from Villager for GP to not be punished. Pretty elementary.

 

[Antonykun]

Which is why Rosalina is better off shielding it, unless she's far enough from Villager for GP to not be punished. Pretty elementary.

I'm just saying just in case (even though in that scenario She's getting grabbed regardless) Usually Shielding Lloyd is the best option unless you are in DA rangebut then you have to deal with and advancing Villager. Space Control is uber important for both characters

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

This MU is probably in Villagers favor. Despite being able to GP almost everything. Villager can still pressure you. It's a bit like the MM mu though the biggest difference is Villagers fsmash (can you gp this?) Fsmash is a pain when you're recovering. Even if you don't always get hit it almost always KOs luma. If customs the MU becomes even more in his favor. I think it's 44:55 non customs and 35:65 with customs.

 

[tconan]

This MU is probably in Villagers favor. Despite being able to GP almost everything. Villager can still pressure you. It's a bit like the MM mu though the biggest difference is Villagers fsmash (can you gp this?) Fsmash is a pain when you're recovering. Even if you don't always get hit it almost always KOs luma. If customs the MU becomes even more in his favor. I think it's 44:55 non customs and 35:65 with customs.

I don't really get how Villager gets that big of an advantage with customs. Sure the down b is quite strong, but shooting star bit and luma warp are also pretty strong tools. Would like an explanation if you're going as far as 35:65, because I don't see the matchup ratio changing too much with both sides gaining advantages.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I don't really get how Villager gets that big of an advantage with customs. Sure the down b is quite strong, but shooting star bit and luma warp are also pretty strong tools. Would like an explanation if you're going as far as 35:65, because I don't see the matchup ratio changing too much with both sides gaining advantages.

Shooting star bit can be pocketed. Luma warp can help but you can't really use it effectively if he's camping the ledge. There's stages when you can change the MU like Delfino and other stuff. Then it's a lot harder to edgeguard him with the explosive ballons.

 

[Antonykun]

Shooting star bit can be pocketed. Luma warp can help but you can't really use it effectively if he's camping the ledge. There's stages when you can change the MU like Delfino and other stuff. Then it's a lot harder to edgeguard him with the explosive ballons.

En contraire if he's ledge camping Luma Warp pressures him into hopping off because dair

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

En contraire if he's ledge camping Luma Warp pressures him into hopping off because dair

Not really the explosive ballons trade in your favor . If you alread released a set a ballons all you need to do is up B again and luma gets blown up. Their maybe a small window to get a hit in but that's it.

The sequence would be something like ledge drop Up B. If you have the sapling it out cuts off rosalina options. So it's the ballons vs luma and Villager wins that.

 

[Antonykun]

Not really the explosive ballons trade in your favor . If you alread released a set a ballons all you need to do is up B again and luma gets blown up. Their maybe a small window to get a hit in but that's it.

...I completely forgot that Luma Warp did damage