Know Your Limits Collective

[InTimidator]

We are a new crew called Know Your Limits! We are a collective of Smasher that know our limits and are ready to hit it. We are new but hope to increase our skills.

Players:

InTim
Main: Fox
Secondary: Icies

Dr3W
Main: Marth
Secondary: Sheik

B-
Main: Yoshi
Secondary: Marth

SMOK
Main: Falco
Secondary: Pikachu

Starcandy
Main: Sheik
Secondary: Marth


Our channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/KnowYourLimits0
Our Twitter:https://twitter.com/KnowYourLimits0

When we post videos, constructive criticism is welcomed.

Thanks!

 

[EPsilon933]

Your videos look a little pixely. Try this http://smashboards.com/threads/333301/

I'd recommend sticking with the tournament viable 8. They're fun because they can do things. Low tiers are boring because they can't

 

[Drew Bear]

Respect. Combo videos and such in the future. Fun stuff.

 

[Drew Bear]

Low tiers are viable and deserve more respect, mad fun to play and more interesting than using the same top tier characters.

 

[EPsilon933]

Low tiers are viable and deserve more respect, mad fun to play and more interesting than using the same top tier characters.

They don't have a lot of tournament success. Sure there's low tier heroes but there's more playing attaining similar tournament placing success with the top 8

Quality > variety

 

[Drew Bear]

I see what your saying, I play Marth and Shiek, very high tier, but I have MAD respect for low tier heroes. And dabbling in that low tier hype is fun on occasion.

 

[EPsilon933]

And dabbling in that low tier hype is fun on occasion.

Tru e

 

[InTimidator]

Your videos look a little pixely. Try this http://smashboards.com/threads/333301/

I'd recommend sticking with the tournament viable 8. They're fun because they can do things. Low tiers are boring because they can't

So, what you are saying is that we shouldn't play a certain character because people think it is boring to watch while we are having fun? No offense, you have the right to your opinion and you are giving your opinion like I ask, but by that logic, Armada shouldn't have gone YL to beat Hbox becuase it was boring to watch. I also play Fox/Falco sometimes. But thanks for the video help, I hate the program we were using before.

 

[EPsilon933]

So, what you are saying is that we shouldn't play a certain character because people think it is boring to watch while we are having fun? No offense, you have the right to your opinion and you are giving your opinion like i ask, but by that logic, Armada shouldn't have gone YL to beat Hbox. But thanks for the video help, I hate the program we were using before.

I was being blunt in my opinion

ARmada went Young Link vs Hungrybox because his Peach can't win vs Jigglypuff

 

[InTimidator]

I was being blunt in my opinion

ARmada went Young Link vs Hungrybox because his Peach can't win vs Jigglypuff

Yeah I know that. But he could have gone someone else, but some low tiers have some good match-ups (i.e, YL/Puff). I like Link and think he deserves more respect. he may have disadvantages, but you have to work around those.

 

[EPsilon933]

Yeah I know that. But he could have gone someone else

The character chooses the player

, but some low tiers have some good match-ups (i.e, YL/Puff). I like Link and think he deserves more respect. he may have disadvantages, but you have to work around those.

We have opinions

 

[Kite91]

I hope to play you guys in easton whenever you come

BTW stick too who you wanna play as. I love seeing like a random IC or samus. Its really not fun to keep seeing the same old characters over and over even tho i play fox lol

 

[JKJ]

I wish I had a crew
Either way, I think that you should play whoever you want to, I mean, there's gotta be somebody to represent Link and yoshi, right? Why can't you be the Taj of your character?
I main Falco, but just today in friendlies I went DK and did a sick combo on this one Fox. I dash attacked to Autocancel Uair to Upsmash. The people in the place cheered. It was mad fun.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Epsilon, you're coming off as highly myopic.

 

[bearsfan092]

Intimidator, I don't feel super qualified to comment on your Fox as I haven't been maining him for very long, but you gotta get some movement in your system. I'm watching you play B- and there's very little horizontal movement at all. Largely seeing you stand in one place, jump straight up, and then attack. If you're gonna play like that, you might as well use Falco for that dair.

 

[InTimidator]

Intimidator, I don't feel super qualified to comment on your Fox as I haven't been maining him for very long, but you gotta get some movement in your system. I'm watching you play B- and there's very little horizontal movement at all. Largely seeing you stand in one place, jump straight up, and then attack. If you're gonna play like that, you might as well use Falco for that dair.

Well about that...
I was using Falco a ton. I'm split about which one I like better, but sometimes my Falco is really stiff. I maybe have Falco, Fox, or Falcon as my secondary.

 

[bearsfan092]

Whatever you choose, work on that movement. This is a movement based fighter, and if you're just going to stand there, you're really limiting yourself.

Also something I forgot to write earlier, be smarter with your recoveries. Aim for platforms and sweetspots when appropriate.

 

[InTimidator]

Whatever you choose, work on that movement. This is a movement based fighter, and if you're just going to stand there, you're really limiting yourself.

Also something I forgot to write earlier, be smarter with your recoveries. Aim for platforms and sweetspots when appropriate.

Well, Roy the bomb. Also can you give me some examples of the times where I'm just standing.

 

[Stylez]

OP's avatar looks really cool, but I can't tell cause I've misplaced my magnifying glass

 

[JKJ]

So, just in general, for most of the matches I've seen, I'm noticing a trend.
The matches are played very slowly. I think that if all of you do some solid techskill practice on your movement, that would help a ton. Don't miss that waveland. Get that risky walljump. Dashdance instead of straight approaching. If you spend some time working on this seriously, you will all become much better.
Also, work on your followups. Don't rely entirely on your reactions to tell you what to do, especially if (and from the looks of the matches, I believe that this is the case) your reactions are slow. That said, if you can react as fast as you can move, by all means, play on reaction. It's superior to prediction, but only a select few can actually play on reaction due to how fast the game is. Have a set option in mind that you think the opponent will employ, and then as soon as you see that option, punish them. What I see in the videos is a bunch of missed punishes.

 

[InTimidator]

So, just in general, for most of the matches I've seen, I'm noticing a trend.
The matches are played very slowly. I think that if all of you do some solid techskill practice on your movement, that would help a ton. Don't miss that waveland. Get that risky walljump. Dashdance instead of straight approaching. If you spend some time working on this seriously, you will all become much better.
Also, work on your followups. Don't rely entirely on your reactions to tell you what to do, especially if (and from the looks of the matches, I believe that this is the case) your reactions are slow. That said, if you can react as fast as you can move, by all means, play on reaction. It's superior to prediction, but only a select few can actually play on reaction due to how fast the game is. Have a set option in mind that you think the opponent will employ, and then as soon as you see that option, punish them. What I see in the videos is a bunch of missed punishes.

Word.

 

[Yakal]

work on movement in your spare time

Can't style on fools if you don't look fly.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I recommend staying to the top tiers too. Since you are learning the game, your primary focus is to learn the fundamentals. The low tiers generally have a lot of problems with them that will make it harder to learn the fundamentals; you may have good spacing, but all of your moves get CC'd so you get hit anyways. Or maybe your character lacks an effective anti-air. In general, there are less things to do and learn about low tiers: its mostly about knowing everything you can't do and playing like a ***** until they give you an opening. For example, your link player was doing a lot of things that links really shouldnt, such as jumping at shields with nair and trying to counter attack out of shield. Had he been playing falco, they would have been potentially effective.

Either way, you guys need to get a lot of experience vs people that are better than you. PA has some good players and NY/NJ has some of the best in the world. Go to smashfests, go to tourneys.

 

[InTimidator]

I recommend staying to the top tiers too. Since you are learning the game, your primary focus is to learn the fundamentals. The low tiers generally have a lot of problems with them that will make it harder to learn the fundamentals; you may have good spacing, but all of your moves get CC'd so you get hit anyways. Or maybe your character lacks an effective anti-air. In general, there are less things to do and learn about low tiers: its mostly about knowing everything you can't do and playing like a ***** until they give you an opening. For example, your link player was doing a lot of things that links really shouldnt, such as jumping at shields with nair and trying to counter attack out of shield. Had he been playing falco, they would have been potentially effective.

Either way, you guys need to get a lot of experience vs people that are better than you. PA has some good players and NY/NJ has some of the best in the world. Go to smashfests, go to tourneys.

I don't like the way of thinking, "If it is hard to work with, just give up." I see what you're saying and I do see the advantages of using high-tiers but low-tiers still have some potential. Also look at our low-tier heroes. They make the low-tiers work. You have to work with the character and not just cop-out. I am working on my OoS game though. And some high-tiers (Puff and Peach) have to play like babies. We are working together to go to tournaments to increase skill and want to go to more tournaments but we are pretty busy.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I have played the best DK, Roy, Luigi, Ganon, Pichu, Bowser, etc in the midwest and none of them give me any trouble (the only exception being vudujin's luigi but I think I could take him ). The problem is fundamentally their character, not necessarily the player. You may be having success with the low tiers among your group of friends, but if you are looking to improve or go to tournaments you are going to have a very bad time (you probably won't even win games in friendlies). Get it out of your head that high tiers are "boring". They are the most exciting characters since they are the most able to be aggressive or do amazing combos. You will also have a lot more positive reinforcement for when you do things right, compared to low tiers where you may do things right but still not gain from it.

When you play a low tier you aren't looking to "win" but instead to break even as much as possible. If your shield is being pressured, you shouldn't try to attack out of it but rather you should look for the perfect time to run away and reset to neutral. When you do land a hit you need to work on gaining as much advantage as possible, which means playing as lame as possible (you can't get fancy with your edgeguards, just grab the edge and roll). On the other hand, if you play a high tier you have a lot more room to explore, improvise and have your own style and that is because of how versatile those characters are.

Playing low tiers should be reserved for times when you are not challenged enough while playing a high tier. It doesn't grant you instant "unique" status from your peers.

 

[MountainGoat]

Know your limits seems like a weird name for a crew. It's kind of the opposite of inspiring. Inspiring would be like beyond all limits or break your limits. Know your limits sounds like you're having to hold yourself back or something.

Also, on the subject of low tiers, I think it's definitely beneficial to start learning the game with a mid to high tier character. You can improve a lot faster, learn more tech and experience more situations. I played pretty much only luigi for the first 8 months or so of playing melee competitively and I definitely think it held me back. I switched around a lot after that to mostly CF and spacies and now when I go back to luigi I play him much better just due to greater game knowledge. Even if you eventually want to be a low tier hero it's so beneficial to learn a high tier. Most people who play low tiers at a high level tend to have a capable high tier character or two as well.

 

[InTimidator]

Know your limits seems like a weird name for a crew. It's kind of the opposite of inspiring. Inspiring would be like beyond all limits or break your limits. Know your limits sounds like you're having to hold yourself back or something.

Also, on the subject of low tiers, I think it's definitely beneficial to start learning the game with a mid to high tier character. You can improve a lot faster, learn more tech and experience more situations. I played pretty much only luigi for the first 8 months or so of playing melee competitively and I definitely think it held me back. I switched around a lot after that to mostly CF and spacies and now when I go back to luigi I play him much better just due to greater game knowledge. Even if you eventually want to be a low tier hero it's so beneficial to learn a high tier. Most people who play low tiers at a high level tend to have a capable high tier character or two as well.

The name is sort of an inside joke. When i play Fox/Falco and I know that I won't get back to the stage i would use Side- B the opposite direction. When someone ask why i did that I responded, "I know my limits." When we were think of a name, I suggested Know Your Limits. I didn't think of it being something to hold you back but think, "Don't over extend yourself."
I know what you mean with low-tiers. I play the game for fun, like everyone should. If I don't try to use him, I'll never win. Look at Axe or Taj (gotta love AZ). They take their characters to whole new limits. I know that sometimes my Link can't handles something so i switch to Falcon or Falco. And sometimes i feel more comfortable with Link over other characters. I want to go to more tournaments, as I said earlier, but I haven't had many chances. I'm learning the game a ton still, but that shouldn't keep me from using my favorite character. Low-tier are more exciting, though.

@Sveet: Why would you feel the need to bring a person down by beating them with a low-tier. That's just being mean.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

@Sveet: Why would you feel the need to bring a person down by beating them with a low-tier. That's just being mean.

Hrmm? That isn't the intention and if someone feels bad for losing to a low tier thats their problem. I don't rub it in their face like "haha you suck cause I beat you with a low tier" if thats what you're implying

Btw, Axe and Taj both play a top tier character (Falco and Marth, respectively) as well as have many years of high level competitive play under their belt. I have mentored many new players over the years and the ones with the most improvement are the ones that listen to me when I say pick a top tier character. If you were in my area, I could express the reasoning better by showing you in person. I highly suggest, no matter what, finding the best player in whatever area you are able to travel and playing them as much as possible. When you do, be humble, have a good attitude, and ask for advice.

 

[InTimidator]

Hrmm? That isn't the intention and if someone feels bad for losing to a low tier thats their problem. I don't rub it in their face like "haha you suck cause I beat you with a low tier" if thats what you're implying

Btw, Axe and Taj both play a top tier character (Falco and Marth, respectively) as well as have many years of high level competitive play under their belt. I have mentored many new players over the years and the ones with the most improvement are the ones that listen to me when I say pick a top tier character. If you were in my area, I could express the reasoning better by showing you in person. I highly suggest, no matter what, finding the best player in whatever area you are able to travel and playing them as much as possible. When you do, be humble, have a good attitude, and ask for advice.

I'm not saying that Axe and Taj don't play high tiers. But, personally, I think that Axe's Pikachu is much better than his Falco. Taj's Mewtwo is debatable. I know that I'm not that good at the game and could become much better. Also i respect that you are showing me an easier path the getting good, but it is my choice that I take this path, not for myself to be good with Link but to show that Link isn't as bad as everyone else thinks. He has potential, as i said before, and it takes a great player to use that. Low-tiers aren't as bad as everyone thinks. High-tiers aren't the road to success.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

My man, you are new to the game, we are trying to help you out. I get you have that whole, "Im a teen and I'll prove you all wrong", thing going on, but do yourself a favor and listen. You're on a site with the most experienced and knowledgeable players in the world; I'm pretty sure low tiers are just as bad as we think they are (though that may not be as bad as you think we think they are). Consider for a moment that it is your experience and game knowledge that may be lacking. Take our advise and learn a high tier, you will end up learning the fundamentals so much quicker. Believe it or not, your skill with Link is directly related to your skill at the game in general; you will actually get better at Link while you are not playing him. If you spend a year playing Falco and then play Link, your Link will be better than it would have been if you played Link for a year.

 

[InTimidator]

My man, you are new to the game, we are trying to help you out. I get you have that whole, "Im a teen and I'll prove you all wrong", thing going on, but do yourself a favor and listen. You're on a site with the most experienced and knowledgeable players in the world; I'm pretty sure low tiers are just as bad as we think they are (though that may not be as bad as you think we think they are). Consider for a moment that it is your experience and game knowledge that may be lacking. Take our advise and learn a high tier, you will end up learning the fundamentals so much quicker. Believe it or not, your skill with Link is directly related to your skill at the game in general; you will actually get better at Link while you are not playing him. If you spend a year playing Falco and then play Link, your Link will be better than it would have been if you played Link for a year.

I have a secondary. Also, I do believe that learning a high-tier/secondary is important if you feel your low-tier or your main can't handle it. PP did that versus Armada at Apex. Thank you for you tips though. I just think that low-tier are fun to play and fun to watch because it is something that we don't see that often. But on thing everyone, even myself, has to remember that the tier list changes and is not set in stone.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Secret info: No character moved more than 2 spots on the tier list in the last poll of the MBR. The game is ~12 years old; the tiers aren't changing much anymore.

 

[InTimidator]

Secret info: No character moved more than 2 spots on the tier list in the last poll of the MBR. The game is ~12 years old; the tiers aren't changing much anymore.

I just don't like getting ragged on for playing a low-tier.

 

[mallu000]

If you feel you have much more motivation playing Link over any High or Top character, by all means do it. Don't change characters because someone else says so. It's much better if you get the experience yourself and come to the conclusions by yourself. You might feel Link is not enough for you and you might want to switch to a better character or you might want to improve your Falco more to help with bad MUs etc. In any case you must do the "math", get experience and think this through. Maybe your Link will become great and you don't need any secondaries or maybe you aren't as successful as you'd like to be but you still want to play with Link. That's perfectly okay too.

While I generally think it makes sense to advice people to take up Falco, Fox, CapFal, Marth over Pikachu, DK, Mario etc. I think it's much better if we just encourage people to play and improve no matter which character they pick up. Noone can really tell you exactly how you are going to feel after X amount of time and what do you want to do then. One might feel discouraged with Low character because of his losses but one might also feel perfectly okay. It isn't set in stones how people play this game and feel about it. Many of us switch characters because we get our ass kicked when playing with X but not all of us and we can't really force this idea on everyone that you'll be better with High/Top characters, you'll enjoy the game more and have more success.

Only a few make money out of this game and only a handful become really good at this. Most of us have to satisfy with wins over friends or making into bracket at a bigger tournament. I don't think it's good to adopt that "I'll do everything to win" mindset if you're really not planning to become the next Armada, PP, Mango or whatever. In any FG or even in any sport it's the same. Risk of losing your motivation is too great in my opinion. You really have to enjoy doing X first before you start dreaming about any big wins or practicing for them. If you'll enjoy Smash most by playing LTs, then do it. Maybe you'll want to adjust your choices later to fit that more competitive mindset, or maybe not.

/useless rant

 

[Grunt]

Even players like Vman and Axe started off playing Falco.
You know who started off playing low tiers? Timmy and Tommy, and now they play brawl.

 

[Rojo]

From the one video I watched it's pretty clear the biggest problem you guys have is with your movement and tech skill, your combos were pretty good for your level.

For the Marth player I would suggest wavedashing OOs instead of rolling all the time. Alot less predictable if used right and less lag time to punish. Also try to learn the art of Marth's ridiculous dash-dance grab and baits and know all of Marth's punishes off grabs realllllyyy well as they are one of his main ways of tacking on that %. Marth's grab range is like half the stage, you should abuse the **** out of that anytime someone mis-spaces a move against you. Try to wavedash in game a lot more for mindgames and during combos, it will help out your spacing a lot more in the long run and your mindgames. Also don't use your double jump so often for no reason, if you get hit out of it you're stuck without a jump and get messed up pretty easily. Stick more to SHFFL fair's, nair's, some down-tilt's thrown in to keep your spacing, and dash-dance grabs. Marth is at his best vs aggressive players in a wait and bait type strategy. Also I wouldn't charge the shield-breaker so much, it limits your options to pretty much just one which is like the worst thing you can do. Edge-guard using downtilt, forward smash, counter, drop-zone bair or fair depending on character +circumstance.

For Link, I would lay off the shield-grabbing so much. When you play good players who space really well and know how to avoid grabs missing that shield grab is gonna get you maddd percent and possibly a stock. Using Link's Up-B OOs is a solid punish on bad spacing and is kinda safer and is also a good kill move at high percents. Also try to recover more with the chain off stage, you could have survived some of those edge-guards if you didn't Up-B. I also think his fair and bair and under-used moves, but that's just my opinion. Both are good for spacing around shields and avoiding shield-grabs. Also crouch-cancel down-tilt and downsmash....really good against people who don't expect it. And ahh keep spamming those projectiles they're really the best weapon you got.

Also I agree with the taking up a high tier argument, at least for a while. When you come back to your low tiers it's ridiculous how much they've improved. Plus playing a high tier will get you the best tech skill, but it's your choice dude.

 

[InTimidator]

I have Captain Falcon as my secondary, B- has Marth, SMOK has Falco. I totally get what you all our saying and I like what mallu000 said. Thank you all for your advice, we'll try to take up the things you are saying.

 

[Drew Bear]

Thanks for all the advice guys, me and InTimidator are gonna practice our butts off, Melee is such a great game.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Just play who you want. Good lord, narrow minded mother****ers ITT.

 

[InTimidator]

Just play who you want. Good lord, narrow minded mother****ers ITT.

What is ITT? I wish people would just realize that the game is for fun, not winning.