Melee Mode

[BluePikmin11]

I'll go explain and have this bore of an intro sentence.

Let me explain this mode:

Melee Mode:

Melee Mode is a mode where all characters become OP like in Melee and Project M. That means wave dashing all sorts of Melee techniques come back for newcomers and veterans.
This would serve some of the hardcore players and competitive Smash players.

Sorry for a short paragraph, but what do you think about it?

 

[Jaedrik]

A simple, yet effective suggestion, but I'd much prefer every nuance of the physics engine to be easily modifiable, and certain other settings, such as 'static airdodge' ala Brawl vs 'directional airdodge' ala Melee, and 'landing lag modifier' and so on.

 

[FalKoopa]

As unlikely it is, I'll be happy if it is there.

I strongly suggest you to change the intro sentence. When I saw it, I thought it was a thread about Multi-Man Melee and all that.

 

[BluePikmin11]

As unlikely it is, I'll be happy if it is there.

I strongly suggest you to change the intro sentence. When I saw it, I thought it was a thread about Multi-Man Melee and all that.

My intro sentence had nothing to do with Multi-man Melee.

 

[UltiMario]

That word you use

"broken"

I don't think you know what that word means.

 

[---]

Broken? But I don't want Mewtwo to suck again. :3

inb4thisturnsintoacasuelvscompetitivebsthread

 

[El Duderino]

If you really want broken, splitting SSB4 into two distinctly different game modes would be a perfect way to toss any consistency with the balancing out the window.

I don't know how this idea came about that Melee and Project M are only a few physics tweaks and ability switches away from say vBrawl, but it appears to be spreading like the winter flu.

 

[Vkrm]

This thread implies that what the competitive community wants for smash 4 is somehow incompatible with what everybody else wants.

I do not agree.

 

[PIKA321]

Heck no, this is the worst idea that has been posted so far. They can just bring back freaking wavedashing and all the characters and stages they toke away.

 

[Sox]

Its a fine thread, and a good idea if they decide to stray away from melee and brawl mechanics for smash 4. But please, remove the word broken. it doesnt make any sense there, and pretty much ruins the credibility of your thread.

 

[Renji64]

Broken seems your trying to insult melee and P:M. I don't think that would happen.

 

[Isprayaxe]

A simple, yet effective suggestion, but I'd much prefer every nuance of the physics engine to be easily modifiable, and certain other settings, such as 'static airdodge' ala Brawl vs 'directional airdodge' ala Melee, and 'landing lag modifier' and so on.

I feel like too many small choices would ruin universal tournament play. Two modes sounds ok, but with a lot of small differences in everyone's preferred type of play would be pretty bad

 

[BluePikmin11]

I changed it to OP.

 

[El Duderino]

Two modes sounds ok

Sure, just like a 3rd Strike mode in the next Street Fighter sounds ok. The problem is for a mode like this to not play like a sad, botched imitation of the former tittle, it would require a near full game reconstruction.

 

[Isprayaxe]

Sure, just like a 3rd Strike mode in the next Street Fighter sounds ok. The problem is for a mode like this to not play like a sad, botched imitation of the former tittle, it would require a near full game reconstruction.

But would you rather have one mode with brawl mechanics or the game is delayed 1 month with 2 modes and one being similar to melee.

 

[El Duderino]

But would you rather have one mode with brawl mechanics or the game is delayed 1 month with 2 modes and one being similar to melee.

I'll take one new fighting engine that builds off the flexibility and mobility of the Smash series' most compelling mechanics. I do not approve of juggling 2 distinct game types that require separate balancing, care, and exorbitant amounts of development time to polish.

A 1 month timeframe to code, playtest, and fine tune all returning/new characters for a Melee setting is laughably unrealistic. Getting it to a satisfactory level would easily pull resources away from the rest of the game throughout development.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

But would you rather have one mode with brawl mechanics or the game is delayed 1 month with 2 modes and one being similar to melee.

It would take a lot more than 1 month, Bucko.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I changed it to OP.

Because Melee Link is so OP I mean right?

 

[Isprayaxe]

The time for tye seperate mode doesn't matter it's the fact that no one wants to see permanent mechanics that are terrible

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The time for tye seperate mode doesn't matter it's the fact that no one wants to see permanent mechanics that are terrible

Which we won't get.

Brawl's mechanics weren't terrible. Melee just had better ones.

 

[PikaJew]

you guys just gotta let melee go.

 

[El Duderino]

you guys just gotta let melee go.

Why? There's no good reason to unless something better comes along.

 

[DrinkingFood]

You guys just gotta let brawl go.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Also they should add Brawl Mode and Smash 64 Mode while they are at it

 

[SmashChu]

How about go play Melee?

 

[lordvaati]

Why? There's no good reason to unless something better comes along.

Exactly correct. but the problem is all the people automatically assuming that the mechanics of the next Smash game will somehow be even worse, when there are signs that will not be the case. I can understand trying not to have too high expectations, but some people take it a bit too far (to the point when some are making preparations for a P:M style version of Smash 4.....before we know anything about it.)

 

[VictoryIsMudkipz]

No, hopefully when Smash Bros 4 releases it will be upped in it's combat to Sakurai's liking, and hopefully for us too, I'd hate for him to make a fighting system he thinks most will not like and try to make up for it, putting in a mode for those who want to relive Melee style, if he doesn't make the combat like Melee or better than I hate for him to put something in just to make up for it instead of trusting his gut instinct..
It would feel like he wouldn't be happy with all he's worked for, so I wouldn't like that idea..

 

[Hokori]

Eh, I'm not too fond of the idea. You might as well just play Melee if you want Melee gameplay. I'm sure Smash 4 will please most of the smash community, and everyone will just adapt from Melee/Brawl to this new game.

 

[El Duderino]

Exactly correct. but the problem is all the people automatically assuming that the mechanics of the next Smash game will somehow be even worse, when there are signs that will not be the case.

What signs? We know next to nothing about the actual game mechanics. All there is the occasional loosely worded Sakauri banter.

 

[Hokori]

What signs? We know next to nothing about the actual game mechanics. All there is the occasional loosely worded Sakauri banter.

I think it's just assumption that since there is a bigger team behind this project the mechanics will improve. However, we're not going to know anything until mid June when E3 rolls around.

 

[Claire Diviner]

This would require the game to run on two different engines; one that Smash 4 normally uses, and one that plays like Melee, which would be more time consuming, if anything.

Also, why is it assumed that all characters in Melee are OP? I mean, clearly, Melee Bowser, Mewtwo, Pichu, and others are anything but OP.

 

[lordvaati]

indeed, I DESPISE how Bad Melee Kirby is,so the "everyone is broken" talk makes no sense. The only game with something similar to that is 64 characters....except maybe Samus.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

What signs? We know next to nothing about the actual game mechanics. All there is the occasional loosely worded Sakauri banter.

Probably the fact that Namco-Bandai is on the development team this time.

 

[Big-Cat]

What I don't get is that some people honestly believe that the series can only go either Brawl or Melee. Oh, and lol at Melee stuff being OP. You want anything resembling OP, go play Marvel. It's make more sense to go and do an entirely new engine and evolve like every other damn series.

What GrumpyChu said is correct. If you want a Melee mode, go play Melee. Alternatively, you could play Project M or just go play another game altogether.

 

[SmashChu]

What GrumpyChu said is correct. If you want a Melee mode, go play Melee. Alternatively, you could play Project M or just go play another game altogether.

Hey, we agree for once.

 

[Gust14]

Ok, excluding the part where he says melee moves are broken/op (wanna see an op move? try mk tornado you wont be dissapointed), this idea is pretty neat. Maybe you could have a beginners mode where everything's slower, big hitboxes, 10-frames buffer, floatty physics, super strong DI, etc... and a pro mode with fast movement and strict timing and spacing for more experienced play. That could appeal to the whole comunnity and seal this whole unhealty separatism between games.

 

[PikaJew]

this is getting ridiculous.


64 was different
melee was different
brawl was different
4 will be different

like 64? play 64
like melee? play melee
like brawl? play brawl
simple as that, nothing more to it

the point is to adapt to the new changes.
each game has completely different mechanics.
you can't play brawl like you would melee, and that seems to be the problem with it.
you wouldn't play 64 like melee, because you couldn't.
you need to play each game in a different way.

most of you are taking this way too personally.
and you still can't understand that the melee mechanics are completely gone, just like 64 are. and brawls will be too.

you're living in the melee past.
didn't play brawl because it didn't play like melee.
and you're STILL wishing for a game that will be played on a gamepad have the exact same mechanics as melee. it's delusional

i understand for you the melee mechanics are christ but you need to let it go. please

THE PRIMARY CONTROLLER IS A GAME PAD
god dammit people...

 

[Vkrm]

Melee was actually pretty similar to 64 imo. There was no 64 vs melee nonsense back then because melee is just as good as 64 if not better. 64 was given new life because modern emulation tools gave rise to an online community, I doubt any of them hate melee like meleers hate brawl. Plenty of them prefer 64's style but I bet you'd be hard pressed to find anybody among them who thinks 64 > melee. And what do you mean by adapt? I should play the newest game even if I don't like it?

 

[lordvaati]

PikaJew, your intentions are benevolent and in most rights I agree-some people do take it a bit too far on their feeling towards the upcoming Smash, and as you have said each game should feel different from the last and like an unique beast. but I feel the issue people had, and the reason why Melee gets so much praise, is because it was arguably the most well rounded of the 3-64 was a very, VERY offensive game, and then Melee introduced more tools for defensive use like the air dodge and Samus/Link's Grapples, but still maintained enough of an offensive game that it was engaging to have matches in. Brawl went overkill with defensive tools, with changing the air dodge to infinite use, the auto ledge grab, and gliding, as well as cutting hitstun almost in half. because of that, most matches devolved to a more campier nature, sometimes to the point where some were turned off by the design, and some offensive characters suffered from the change(Weegee,cap,Puffy).

What I'm basically driving at is even though I love Brawl and will defend it with it's warts and all, I can still see why some were turned off and are wary of the next game....and to an extent I agree. But I'm, absolutely sure Sakurai has heard the feedback and seen the fan reaction, and with Nintendo trying to target a more traditional gaming audience, KI:U NOT being designed in a more casual-natured setting, and them getting Bamco to help(including guys who worked on Tekken and SC), I get the feeling they may be trying to recapture that balance of offense and defense again. Sakurai said he doesn't plan on making another Melee, but as long as it can maintain the same intensity of gamplay, isn't that really enough?

 

[SmashChu]

PikaJew, your intentions are benevolent and in most rights I agree-some people do take it a bit too far on their feeling towards the upcoming Smash, and as you have said each game should feel different from the last and like an unique beast. but I feel the issue people had, and the reason why Melee gets so much praise, is because it was arguably the most well rounded of the 3-64 was a very, VERY offensive game, and then Melee introduced more tools for defensive use like the air dodge and Samus/Link's Grapples, but still maintained enough of an offensive game that it was engaging to have matches in. Brawl went overkill with defensive tools, with changing the air dodge to infinite use, the auto ledge grab, and gliding, as well as cutting hitstun almost in half. because of that, most matches devolved to a more campier nature, sometimes to the point where some were turned off by the design, and some offensive characters suffered from the change(Weegee,cap,Puffy).

What I'm basically driving at is even though I love Brawl and will defend it with it's warts and all, I can still see why some were turned off and are wary of the next game....and to an extent I agree. But I'm, absolutely sure Sakurai has heard the feedback and seen the fan reaction, and with Nintendo trying to target a more traditional gaming audience, KI:U NOT being designed in a more casual-natured setting, and them getting Bamco to help(including guys who worked on Tekken and SC), I get the feeling they may be trying to recapture that balance of offense and defense again. Sakurai said he doesn't plan on making another Melee, but as long as it can maintain the same intensity of gamplay, isn't that really enough?

The problem here is context. Melee's praise comes mostly from competitive players, not the fanbase as a whole. Generally, the competitive community was the only ones who had a problem with Brawl. Also, the developers don't design it around competitive play, so the issue they have will likely come second.

Brawl was designed to move away from Melee and SSB4 will likely be designed similarly. This is how he designs all his games (reason why they use as few buttons as possible). The competitive community will have to take what it can get. Maybe they will like it, but I doubt it.