Soul Calibur thread - Returning the favor, a tale eternally re-told

[SSBCandidates]

I keep standing up to the notion of having a SC rep in Smash; as ever since Link was a guest on the Cube's version of SCII; I was under the idea that perhaps for the next Smash game (which turned out to Brawl) someone from this series would appear as a guest.

This is way before ever the idea of having third party characters came into the public hivemind and basically because it would fit to have a character from this fighting series appear on Nintendo's prime fighting franchise (at first I was also under the assumption that Killer Instinct was Nintendo's premiere fighting franchise and with Rare gone, it was Smash, but I had no clue for many years about Sukapon much less that perhaps their first "fighter" can be considered to be Urban Champion).

Non-serious or secondary characters like Yoshimitsu, Lizardman or Astaroth were the ones I believe to be chosen to be in Smash, as no way would they place a serious or main character on a Smash game; considering the silly nature of it and maybe having a character with a high/serious profile would feel awkward (not sure how to explain it, but similar to the idea Richard Donner had, of having a lesser known actor to play Superman).

But then Snake came, not only was he a third but also a "serious look" character (plus we got ZZS as well in this department we could say), so this raised the odds that any SC character could be present in a Smash game. So why not a serious/main character in Smash?

A SC character should go under the rule that if a Nintendo character ever met some third party ones; then they should meet again in a Smash game (we might call this the "crossover rule" but wish I could do a different thread on it alone). So with Link being in SCII this would ease having someone from there here. But alas they don't have it easy especially if the "one rep per company" rule remains or at least applies at BandaiNamco, as Pac-Man already raced in that Mario Kart Arcade game, and we have a lot of Nintendo elements in the latest Tekken Tag game for the Wii U. And these 2 franchises also have their right to be on Smash considering the crossover rule (though none from Tekken met an actual Nintendo character).

Anyhow but for now let's speak of SC, as this is the respective thread (not that we should not talk of possible Namco reps, but let's mostly talk of this (also to consider that perhaps SC and Tekken take place in the same universe but during different time periods).

OK my favorite characters from SC are the Alexandra sisters; and Sophitia is the most popular, iconic and with the most history in the series so she would be my prime choice. But Cassandra unlike her passive sister, is quite an openly agressive fighter and would probably love more the chance to be in Smash than her sister. And then I would have Yoshimitsu, who is a fun character, and my actual first choice for Smash ever since 2003; and as he exists on both franchises; he could be considered the "Namco overall fighting rep." And kill 2 birds with a stone as many say on his situation.

But I would like to leave that for a different time (or perhaps thread) and focus on general things (unlike some also want to talk of these 3 characters in general according to this thread), as I would like to have the chance to speak of other characters, and there is one I would like to talk of.

Viola

Just new to Soul Calibur V, is this girl named Viola. Now many Smash fans are looking for characters under different fighting styles; and also non-sword fighters since some say there are too many in Smash.

Well Viola offers just that. Not only does she uses some flexible moves and attacks with a metal claw, but also has that crystal/energy ball of her's around to attack. Something I have noticed is that she can leave that ball around a stage; and then attack with it "calling it back."

Wonder how would work that on Smash? I can picture it in some large stage like the Hyrule castle, that Viola leaves her ball somewhere far, and uses it to attack characters who are far from her but near the ball, or to call it back when she is under attack in a section far away. Once could say, the ball comes back to her aid, by doing some damage to characters on its way lol.

Oh and some other stuff to consider in general. There hasn't been any main SC game since SCII on the Cube, aside that terrible Legends adventure game on the Wii. And I am not sure how the "franchise/character" loophole would fit on this, as characters like Viola and most from SCV have never been in a Nintendo console, save for the franchise itself.

Unless a SCV port is made for the Wii U and this rises the chances for all characters who haven't been present on Nintendo.

Talim

Talim could bring something new as well. She is light and small, but uses some tonfa-like weapons to fight. I can imagine her for close-distance combat. But a problem is that she did not return for SCV, however she made her debut on SCII.

Well that is all for now, just a way to open the thread on SC. Anyone is welcome to post here and if you want any SC character in Smash; you are a "favor returner." Bye for now, going to open an extra post for future use.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Im all for Nightmare in all honesty.

 

[SSBCandidates]

Reserved for future use.

 

[SSBCandidates]

Wow! You beat me 8 before I could place the extra post. Anyway, yeah Nightmare was the icon/mascot for a long time. Despite being the villain, he is more popular than the series' heroic characters. But correct me if I am wrong... he is now some generic guy or is Sophitia's daughter on the way to become the new Nightmare?

Night Terror would be his FS easily.

I mentioned Astaroth earlier because he could bring in someting new too, a huge guy with an ax/hammer. And he was the SC rep on a Pac-man Namco crossover game, in which Heihachi was the Tekken rep, so some consider him to be the SC character to be used in these kind of games. Though King Dedede also is big and carries a large weapon.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Wow! You beat me 8 before I could place the extra post. Anyway, yeah Nightmare was the icon/mascot for a long time. Despite being the villain, he is more popular than the series' heroic characters. But correct me if I am wrong... he is now some generic guy or is Sophitia's daughter on the way to become the new Nightmare?

Night Terror would be his FS easily.

I mentioned Astaroth earlier because he could bring in someting new too, a huge guy with an ax/hammer. And he was the SC rep on a Pac-man Namco crossover game, in which Heihachi was the Tekken rep, so some consider him to be the SC character to be used in these kind of games. Though King Dedede also is big and carries a large weapon.

Nightmare is still the most famous. lol So i wouldn't doubt his chances. Even if he became a generic guy or he is Sophita's daughter. (I don't remember what happened to the beast)

Astaroth still uses an Axe and not a hammer. So he can be vastly different from Dedede.

 

[Frostwraith]

I don't know much about SoulCalibur, but I've heard that SCV has a very powerful character editor. perhaps they could implement something like that in Smash? who knows... but considering that Namco Bandai is developing SSB4...

after all, Sakurai did mention about customizable options in some interviews regarding SSB4... whatever that might mean.

 

[dezeray112]

I wouldn't mind seeing Sophitia Alexandria or Siegfried Schauffen in this.

 

[N3ON]

The only thing I want from SC in SSB4 is the proficiency of its online.

As for Viola and Talim, neither is likely if SC somehow managed to get a character. Viola isn't even eligible. Unless she's Amy. And then only barely (thank god for cameos lol). If any SC character were to be included, it would be Nightmare, Siegfried, or maaaybe Mitsurugi. I've also heard Ivy and Yoshimitsu tossed around... but no. All of this is pretty hypothetical though, as Pac-Man, Tekken, and Tales all have much better chances if we even get a Namco character.

And Talim not being in SCV caused me to do alot of and .

 

[SSBCandidates]

Well of course we can't outrule Nightmare. But I do miss when he was Siegfried, and well an advantage of him being a generic guy (Dumas something) might help us more to think of Nightmare than the man under the armor.

Pyrrah is Sophitia's daughter and I remember she was turning into the new Nightmare or something, but didn't saw more of the story mode.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Well, if we got Yoshimitsu it would be the Tekken one with a SC costume.

 

[Ninka_kiwi]

Only Soul Calibur rep that I'd be remotely okay with is Nightmare, anyone else from SC would just seem weird to me.

This is coming from a Nightmare main though, so my opinion is super biased...

 

[8-peacock-8]

Only Soul Calibur rep that I'd be remotely okay with is Nightmare, anyone else from SC would just seem weird to me.

This is coming from a Nightmare main though, so my opinion is super biased...

Nightmare is basically the mascot, so i wouldn't even say bias is a problem. (Seeing as the mascot character will have a better chance)

 

[SSBCandidates]

Well, if we got Yoshimitsu it would be the Tekken one with a SC costume.

I do imagine that like Wario, we could have Yoshimitsu with styles from both games.

 

[Reyson]

Ivy is probably the most famous Soul Calibur character(for two obvious reasons) but it seems incredibly unlikely for her to make it in a nintendo game for all audiences.

What about Seong Mi-Na? She's a pretty popular aswell, actually wears clothing, unique fighting style,..

 

[Spire]

Nightmare please. He's fantastical enough to not be "yet another human fighter with a weapon". There are only two other characters who'd stand a chance: Mitsurugi and Ivy, but guess what? Takamaru will steal the Samurai spot and Ivy, well... her physique is a bit racy in terms of Smash (not that it really matters). Nightmare is pretty much the mascot of the Soul series, being featured in Project Soul's logo.

If anyone from Soul should make it into SSB4, it'd most definitely be Nightmare. Good ol' classic SC2 Nightmare:

 

[SSBCandidates]

Ivy is probably the most famous Soul Calibur character(for two obvious reasons) but it seems incredibly unlikely for her to make it in a nintendo game for all audiences.

What about Seong Mi-Na? She's a pretty popular aswell, actually wears clothing, unique fighting style,..

I actually like Mina too. Not of my favorites but she would bring something new to Smash, she basically is a "lance" user.

Kilik is great too as a staff user; he was even considered the main character for a while, but now is an Edgemaster, and while still playable; his spotlight has been taken by that Sun Wukong wannabe whose name I forget.

I really don't like Ivy to be in Smash, and not because of how she looks, but because just not. Though she could be the closest thing to a "whip weilder" as her sword works alike a whip, and maybe we will never get a Belmont.

 

[ChainArmour712]

I'm sure that this topic has been discussed before on Smashboards, but I want to create a thread for the discussion of any potential representative of Namco's Soul Calibur fighting game series to make it into SSB4 as a playable character.

Why should the Soul Calibur representative be playable in Super Smash Bros. 4?

-Well, one of the developers helping out on SSB4 is Namco Bandai Games, which owns the rights for the characters of the Soul Calibur series. Also, Soul Calibur II on the Gamecube was the best selling version of that game on all of the three platforms of the time even though the Gamecube was behind the Xbox and PS2 in terms of a consumer base. Much of the reason for this can be contributed to Namco's genius decision to include the character Link (of Nintendo's Legend of Zelda series) as a playable character in the game. As SCII was released just two years after Melee was and Link was playable in both best selling games, there were naturally many people (such as myself) who tried and were introduced to Soul Calibur as a result of Link's inclusion. This helped to increase fan interest in both series as they shared a playable hero for the first time. Unfortunately, Link has yet to appear in any subsequent installments of the series (many fans were disappointed by his absence in the recent HD remake, which wasn't released on the Wii U). However, Soul Calibur's inclusion of high profile guest characters in my opinion blazed a path for Sakurai to do the same in Brawl.

Although Soul Calibur 3, 4, or 5 were not released on Nintendo consoles, several spin off games were created for the Wii which shows that Namco hasn't abandoned Nintendo hardware entirely. What better time than now, when Namco is collaborating with Nintendo on what will be one of the Wii U's best selling games, than to include a representative from Namco's most popular fighting game series? Especially when there has been third party character inclusion in the past, and it obviously resulted in financial success for both parties? I think the time is right to include a Soul Calibur representative in Smash 4, and in my opinion the odds of this happening are about 50%. If it does happen, I think it will be a high profile shock reveal close to the game's release- most likely at E3 2014. My money is on the SC rep and Snake being revealed at this event or shortly thereafter.

With the reasoning for a Soul Calibur representative being established, let's look at a list of potential candidates. From looking at precedent, Sakurai will only consider the third party characters who are relevant to gaming history and highly recognizable. With the smash success of Soul Calibur on all three gaming consoles, the distribution of this series is enough that even those who might not own a Wii U may be attracted by the inclusion of a familiar character. That the two series share the same genre is also a huge benefit because that means fans of SC may be more willing to check out SSB4. Therefore, my list of potential Soul Calibur representatives share a few common characteristics:

-Series Continuity. Eligible characters must have appeared in most or all of the Soul Calibur games, and to be eligible they must have at least appeared by the release of Soul Calibur II on the Gamecube in 2003.

-Series Significance. Eligible characters must have been mainstays of the plot of Soul Calibur, playing at least some role in the main story of the games. Side characters like Voldo, Lizardman and Rock are thus disqualified.

-Moveset Potential. Eligible characters must have the potential to be given unique and innovative movesets, beyond just swinging their weapons. Magic and projectiles are a plus, as are innovative weapons (e.g. Ivy's Snake Sword).

-Fan Popularity. The characters must be popular and well received by the potential customers of SSB4 and Soul Calibur alike. More obscure characters like Yunsung and Sueng Mina are thus disqualified.

-Innovation. Eligible characters should bring something to the game that nobody else does, like Link did when he brought projectile stances into Soul Calibur II. This means that characters like Raphael who fit a certain niche taken by characters already in the Smash series (a quick, deft swordsman like Marth) are at a disadvantage.

-Moral Alignment. Eligible characters should either be heroes of Soul Calibur or at least morally ambiguous. Sakurai has tended to include series heroes over villains.

So in conclusion, here are the Soul Calibur characters I think have the best shot to be included in Super Smash Bros. 4:

Sigfried- The Germanic zweihander-swinging protagonist of the series. Helped by his plot significance, popularity, and unique weapon. Hurt by having not appeared in SCII, and having no long range attacks.

Ivy:- The English snake sword using dominatrix. Helped by having a very unique weapon and tons of moveset potential, as well as being arguably the most recognizable SC character, plus being a potential female representative. Hurt by being an alleged sex symbol who appears scantily clad in many of her games- may be too mature for Sakurai's consideration.

Cervantes- The Twin Sword using pirate. Helped by having many unique abilities beyond his weapons, having a projectile, his fan popularity, and an easily accessible pirate motif. Hurt by being a villain, and a rather cruelhearted one at that.

Mitsrugi- The katana using Samurai. Helped by his recurrence in all the games, his neutral moral position, his simple backstory, and by filling an easy character niche (two handed sword fast character). Hurt by not having too many special abilities, by lacking a projectile (except the musket which Mitsrugi despises in the series), and by his nationalistic militaristic Japanese portrayal.

Yoshimitsu- The mystic travelling Manji ninja, and my most likely choice. Helped by having appeared in all the SC games plus Tekken, having many special abilities, a not-too-serious personality, and by being a heroic character. Hurt by not being a central story character in SC or Tekken, and by not being the most popular character in either series.

Kilik- The staff using hero-turned-guiding monk. Helped by being a series standby and by having a unique weapon plus by being a heroic character. Hurt by not having quite the star power of some of the more flamboyant characters, and by not being playable in Soul Calibur V.

So, how likely do you think it is that a Soul Calibur representative will be confirmed for Super Smash Bros. 4? If one does get in, who do you think it will be and why? What movesets would you think work best for these characters? What are your thoughts on the Soul Calibur series and Link's inclusion in SCII eleven years ago? Discuss these and other related topics here.

 

[3Bismyname]

not gonna happen. but i would bet on Nightmare over anyone. he's essentially the driving force behind the franchise.

 

[UltimateWario]

The obvious and only choice is Link.

 

[ChainArmour712]

I guess Nightmare would be a decent choice, but I think Sakurai would be hesitant to feature a villain as the main representative of a series- especially with how much killing he's done.

As for the likelihood, I'm pretty sure Namco's going to get at least one representative on the virtue of having helped to develop the game. The most likely opponents are probably Pac Man and Dig Dug, but I think an SC rep is more likely on the basis of being in the same genre and having sales power today (plus the guest character history).

 

[3Bismyname]

I guess Nightmare would be a decent choice, but I think Sakurai would be hesitant to feature a villain as the main representative of a series- especially with how much killing he's done.

but the majority of the other major characters have a rather extensive kill count. Kilik killed virtually everyone in the temple he was living in, Ivy kills anyone with even the slightest relation to Soul Edge, Mitsurugi kills regularly as part of his bushido code, Cervantes is a pirate (pretty self explanatory really).

 

[ChainArmour712]

I guess that's unavoidable for a fighting game. I would say that the other characters either express regret over their massacres (kilik), kill with the intention of destroying Soul Edge (Ivy and Yoshimitsu) or kill for not exclusively evil reasons (Mitsrugi). As for Cervantes the fact he's a pirate gives just a bit of levity to the fact he is evil and kills a lot, as for Nightmare he is a villain through and through so he kills to consume souls only. There is absolutely nothing even morally ambiguous about him unlike the others and Snake (except Cervantes). I just don't think Sakurai would agree to feature that kind of a villain as the sole representative. However, if Sigfried got in I could definitely see Nightmare as a clone or alternate costume. To me that's the most likely way a Soul Calibur rep gets in, the second most likely being Yoshimitsu.

 

[TumblrFamous]

First of all, there is no absolute as to if Namco is getting a rep. They are not being put on a pedestal just because they are helping with the game. If we get a Namco rep, it'd be Pac-Man and nothing more.

Which leads me to my next point. It can only be Pac-Man. Mega Man, Sonic, and Snake have set the bar extraordinarily high for third-party characters. The third-party guests have to be legendary, and Pac-Man is the only character that can fit that bill. So, realistically, no Soul Caliber rep.

Also the fact that, I have read somewhere (can't find the link, sadly), that Sakurai is not putting in fighting game characters. So.... yah no.

 

[3Bismyname]

the only prominent characters in the series who cant be considered killers are like Sophitia (who weakened Cervantes enough for Taki to actually kill him) and Cassandra (who hasnt killed anyone). but regardless, even though Nightmare may be the villain of the franchise, its hard to ignore the fact thathe is the most consistent and recognizable character within the entire franchise. good or evil that just speaks volumes.

 

[UltimateWario]

I really don't think that Namco is getting a rep. Sakurai made it a point to say that Namco wasn't getting any sort of special treatment because of their work on the game. Taking this at face value, that would mean that Namco would really have no chance at getting a character in. Without their work on the game (which I'm by no means diminishing), they wouldn't have any reason to get a rep in; the only character that anyone could consider a real gaming star would be Pac-man, who's been washed up for, what, over thirty years? Pac-man really has no place among the likes of Mario anymore.

Soul Calibur is fairly popular, and even got a Nintendo rep, which is nearly unheard of. But things can't really work the other way, because none of Soul Calibur's characters are really anything to talk about as far as originality or personality. The dudes are...just dudes with weapons...the girls are ****/asses with legs (and weapons), and then there are the few "eldritch-type" characters, who are too obscure to ever get in.

Past that, I honestly don't even know of any other Namco games. Don't they do Tekken?

 

[ChainArmour712]

I'm not sure if Pac -Man has an absolute ticket punched either, since he hasn't been a relevant game character in about twenty years. Compared to Sonic, Mario, and even Snake, he is just not on the same level. In a contest between him and an SC rep, I'm liking the latter's chances. By the volume of sales for the series in the last decade Soul Calibur definitely has the advantage, plus the inclusion of Link in SCII. Namco may not be guaranteed a rep, but the fact they are helping gives their chances a big boost. I'm figuring some of the Namco staff helping Sakurai worked on SC in the past so I have to believe the possibility has been discussed at some point. It comes down to what Sakurai wants, and if someone has access to his ear that we don't then we should consider the possibility of what could be said. Kojima convinced Sakurai to include Snake and he wasn't even working on the game, and Snake had little history with Nintendo; what we have here is a series with more connection and a previous instance of character sharing.

In short, a Namco rep would be either PacMan or a SC rep. The former is more likely, but the latter should be viewed as having a legitimate shot as the runner up since Pacman's case is not ironclad. The SC cast has actually been in fighting games unlike Pacman. Namco also lent Heihachi to Playstation All Stars, so they have that instance as well of lending a character to a fighting game.

We don't know what happens in Sakurai's studio, but I think the fact the Namco staff is involved indicates they would have to get some special treatment- in a way, it's their game too. It would be different if none of the SC reps would translate well into SSB4, but several of them do. I wouldn't consider the possibility likewise if there hadn't been third party guests before, but the Link example gives us a precedent that's not present for most other potential characters. Who knows, maybe some of the Namco staff worked on SCII back then or else Sakurai was consulted on how to design the moveset for Link in that game. The potential relationships there are something Pac man would not possess (unless any of the SCII team worked on a Pac Man game which I doubt).

 

[3Bismyname]

I really don't think that Namco is getting a rep. Sakurai made it a point to say that Namco wasn't getting any sort of special treatment because of their work on the game. Taking this at face value, that would mean that Namco would really have no chance at getting a character in. Without their work on the game (which I'm by no means diminishing), they wouldn't have any reason to get a rep in; the only character that anyone could consider a real gaming star would be Pac-man, who's been washed up for, what, over thirty years? Pac-man really has no place among the likes of Mario anymore.

Soul Calibur is fairly popular, and even got a Nintendo rep, which is nearly unheard of. But things can't really work the other way, because none of Soul Calibur's characters are really anything to talk about as far as originality or personality. The dudes are...just dudes with weapons...the girls are ****/***** with legs (and weapons), and then there are the few "eldritch-type" characters, who are too obscure to ever get in.

Past that, I honestly don't even know of any other Namco games. Don't they do Tekken?

Pac-Man, Tekken, .Hack, the Tales series, Xenosaga, Dig Dug, Klonoa and since it is Namco Bandai they also own a butt load of franchises beyond video games like Digimon, Tomagatchi, Astro Boy and Gundams. thats just off the top of my head. Namco has one of the most diverse library of series with only Nintendo and Capcom competing for that title.

 

[UltimateWario]

@ ChainArmour712

Snake getting in was little more than a favor for an old friend. Under any other circumstances, he would've been no more likely than Cloud or Master Chief.

 

[TumblrFamous]

In short, a Namco rep would be either PacMan or a SC rep. The former is more likely, but the latter should be viewed as having a legitimate shot as the runner up since Pacman's case is not ironclad. The SC cast has actually been in fighting games unlike Pacman. Namco also lent Heihachi to Playstation All Stars, so they have that instance as well of lending a character to a fighting game.

If Namco gets a rep, it will be Pac-Man. Not SC, not Tekken, not Tales, no one other than Pac-Man. Snake, Sonic, and Mega Man. All pioneers in their respective franchises. All icons in their companies. Pac-Man is exactly like them. And why do you think he hasn't been relevant? There was the recently-released Wii U Pac-Man game. So he is still relevant. And besides... it's Pac-Man.

 

[UltimateWario]

If Namco gets a rep, it will be Pac-Man. Not SC, not Tekken, not Tales, no one other than Pac-Man. Snake, Sonic, and Mega Man. All pioneers in their respective franchises. All icons in their companies. Pac-Man is exactly like them. And why do you think he hasn't been relevant? There was the recently-released Wii U Pac-Man game. So he is still relevant. And besides... it's Pac-Man.

What WiiU game...?

-goes to check-

...oh, you mean the game based on the terrible kids' show. Right.

"It's Pac-Man" is no argument. Maybe if this was around when Pac-Man Fever came out, but this is several decades later, after dozens of terrible games trying to relive that one-or-two-times glory that Pac-Man garnered back then. It wasn't even the character that was so popular; it was the game itself.

Pac-Man is very similar to British royalty. Everyone knows who he is, and he was really important at some point in the distant past, but now he sits around and does jack-**** of any importance.

 

[TumblrFamous]

What WiiU game...?

-goes to check-

...oh, you mean the game based on the terrible kids' show. Right.

"It's Pac-Man" is no argument. Maybe if this was around when Pac-Man Fever came out, but this is several decades later, after dozens of terrible games trying to relive that one-or-two-times glory that Pac-Man garnered back then. It wasn't even the character that was so popular; it was the game itself.

Pac-Man is very similar to British royalty. Everyone knows who he is, and he was really important at some point in the distant past, but now he sits around and does jack-**** of any importance.

No, "It's Pac-Man" is supported by my previous statement: third party guests have to be legendary. Snake, Sonic, and Mega Man are the icons of their companies. Pac-Man is the only one after these three that can follow suit.

And Sakurai will add whoever the **** he wants regardless of game reception.

 

[3Bismyname]

What WiiU game...?

-goes to check-

...oh, you mean the game based on the terrible kids' show. Right.

"It's Pac-Man" is no argument. Maybe if this was around when Pac-Man Fever came out, but this is several decades later, after dozens of terrible games trying to relive that one-or-two-times glory that Pac-Man garnered back then. It wasn't even the character that was so popular; it was the game itself.

Pac-Man is very similar to British royalty. Everyone knows who he is, and he was really important at some point in the distant past, but now he sits around and does jack-**** of any importance.

yeah reminds me of another video game character who was announced as a newcomer.

 

[N3ON]

First Link, then nobody, then Lloyd, then nobody again, then probably Nightmare.

 

[ChainArmour712]

Obviously not Tekken as that series has no history with Nintendo, Tales isn't quite famous enough, I'm saying Pac Man hasn't been relevant because when you ask people to think of Namco they will either say Tekken ,Soul Calibur or old school Pac Man. One game doesn't change that, but it does help his chances. Pac Man never established a real record of smash hit titles, unlike say Mario with 64, Sunshine, then Galaxy or Sonic with Adventure 2, Heroes, and Lost World. The thing is Sonic is undisputably Sega's icon and they design games for him on a biannual basis or so. Same with Mario, he is always in games and those games are always popular. Pac Man is less clear, since the 80s he has appeared here and there but it's not clear cut that he's the definite go to guy for the company. We could probably say that for Tekken and Soul Calibur though, in terms of being the highest profile releases that pay the bills for Namco.

 

[3Bismyname]

Obviously not Tekken as that series has no history with Nintendo, Tales isn't quite famous enough, I'm saying Pac Man hasn't been relevant because when you ask people to think of Namco they will either say Tekken ,Soul Calibur or old school Pac Man. One game doesn't change that, but it does help his chances. Pac Man never established a real record of smash hit titles, unlike say Mario with 64, Sunshine, then Galaxy or Sonic with Adventure 2, Heroes, and Lost World. The thing is Sonic is undisputably Sega's icon and they design games for him on a biannual basis or so. Same with Mario, he is always in games and those games are always popular. Pac Man is less clear, since the 80s he has appeared here and there but it's not clear cut that he's the definite go to guy for the company. We could probably say that for Tekken and Soul Calibur though, in terms of being the highest profile releases that pay the bills for Namco.

currently the one who would pay the bills would be the license games. the DBZ, Naruto and One Pieces they make. Tales is the biggest Namco franchise in Japan, while Tekken would be the closest equivilant in America. and that's being generous. and i honestly laughed when u said Sonic Heroes and Lost World are record smash hits lol. but no Pac-Man is considered Namco's mascot. hell every article u find of Pac-Man will say "He is Namco's mascot" often times followed by "One of the most famous video game characters of all time."

 

[Knight Dude]

I'm a big fan of Soul Calibur. So even if it's not that likely to see a character from Soul Calibur, I would be happy to someone from Soul Calibur in Smash. But you NEED to have Siegfried and Nightmare in your original post. They are the most important characters in the series. Anyway, since most thread accept movesets, here's one I did a while ago for Nightmare.

Nightmare A.K.A the Azure Knight from Soul Calibur

Stats​

Weight: 8/10 Nightmare is as heavy as Ganondorf.
Size: 6/10: He’s a bit taller than Link, but shorter than Falcon.
Ground Speed: 5/10: Despite his bulky armor, Nightmare has an average running speed.
Air Speed: 4/10 Nightmare’s Air Speed is on par with Brawl Link’s. Which is to say not very good at all.
Fall Speed: 7/10: Nightmare falls rather quickly.
Jump Height: 5/10: He has an average jump height
Traction: 4/10
Grab Range: 6/10: Nightmare uses his demonic claw to grab his opponents. Since its larger than his normal arm, it has a larger hitbox.

Note: To help give an even better idea of what these moves look like I’ll post two videos that I found that show two different versions of his original command list. Most of the moves with names are taken directly from the names of Soul Calibur 2 and 3. Some moves are found in both videos, but I’ll mostly put time stamps for the first video(the Soul Calibur 2 command list).

Most of this stuff is in collapse tabs so that no one has to look at a wall of text right away. I tried to be as detailed as the "Make Your Move" threads tend to be. I might do some cleaning up of this post later.

Videos​

Spoiler

Here's his first Command List that I chose. It's from Soul Calibur 2.

The second one comes from Soul Calibur 3. The dude/girl who uploaded the videos in the first place is called "zedk8"

And this last one is a combo video just for fun.

Normal Attacks​

Spoiler

AAA = Slash Cross: (Seen at 0:30, first video)

Slash Cross one of Nightmare’s basic attacks throughout the series. He does two horizontal swipes with Soul Edge, then he follows with a downwards slam with Soul Edge. The first two hits each deal 4% damage. And the last hit deals 5% damage. This move would work well for basic combos. Given Nightmare’s range, it can be used as a means to space the enemy out.

The last hit can K.O. at 115%. The first two hits have little to no knockback, while the last sends enemies at a 45 degree angle.

Forward + A = Dark High Kick: (Seen at 3:38, second video)

Nightmare does a surprisingly quick kick to the midsection. This attack isn’t all that fancy, but it is one of Nightmares faster attacks, along with having decent range as well. This move is ok at spacing the enemy out, but far from his best options. This attack can be combo-ed into Slash Cross and Grind Kick. Dark High Kick deals 9% damage.

Up + A = Dark Bite: (Seen at 5:13, second video)

Nightmare deals a quick uppercut with his demonic arm. This attack has no real advantages or disadvantages to it, it’s a pretty basic move all round. Dark Bite deals 8%.

If there was just one positive that Dark Bite would have, it’s that it can be followed up with a Soul Wave if timed correctly.

Down + A = Grind Kick: (3:41, second video)

Grind Kick is a pretty simple move, being able to hit the opponent with a quick low kick. But it can spike the enemy downwards at the right angle. This is another move good for spacing the opponent out due to being quick and having decent range. Grind Kick can be combo-ed into both Slash Cross and Dark High Kick. Grind Kick deals 10% damage.

Dash Attack = Drop Kick: (Seen at 5:44, first video)

Nightmare’s dash attack is a very powerful move. Drop Kick deals 14% damage. But the best part of this move is its powerful knockback, sending enemies flying back at higher percentages (80%+). The down side of the Drop Kick is that Nightmare is left open to the opponent if he misses his target.
The knockback for the Drop Kick sends opponents straight forward, can K.O. at 85% or so.

Forward Smash = Quick Revenge: (Seen at 3:02, first video)

Nightmare ducks forward while charging this Smash attack. When the button is let go, he will stab Soul Edge forward while the blade spins like a drill. This move hits four times, with all four hits dealing between a total of 3%-5% damage depending on how long the button is held.
The first three hit will lock the enemy in place if contact is made, while the last hit will launch the enemy forward.

Quick Revenge is good for stacking on damage early on with its good range, but it shouldn’t be your main K.O. option. It can at the very least, get a good knockout at higher percentages (70%+).

Quick Revenge can push enemies straight forward, and K.O at 70%.

Up Smash = Midnight Launcher: (Seen at 3:30, first video)

Nightmare reels back and puts a lot of force into a single upward slash. As the name implies, this move launches the opponent high into the air. Midnight Launcher is Nightmare’s main vertical knockout attack. Dealing 22%-28% damage depending on how long the move is charged. The only downside to this attack is that it is slower than most Up-Smashes.

Midnight Launcher should be a reliable tool for getting in K.O.s. Nightmare’s likely to take down an opponent at 65% with this move.

Down Smash = Charge Stomp: (Seen at 5:40, first video)

Nightmare lifts his foot above the ground while it is being charged with electric energy. He then stomps the ground with great force causing an explosion around him. This explosion will greatly push enemies back; this move acts as a spacing option for Nightmare. Charge Stomp is Nightmare’s best knockout option, deals somewhere between 21%-28% damage.

Charge Stomp should arguably be his best move, having high knockback and can K.O. in the high 50%s.

Specials
​

Spoiler

B = Earth Divide: (Seen at 3:43, first video)

Nightmare raises Soul Edge as it is lit on fire, and then he slams the blade down causing a small shockwave. Earth Divide works in a similar manner to Marth and Roy’s Shield Breakers in Melee, unleashing a powerful arching slash. Earth Divide can deal somewhere between 10%-30% damage depending on how long the B button is held. The shock wave that Earth Divide leaves will push enemies back greatly, making for a good knockout move if you get lucky. Like the Drop Kick, if the Earth Divide misses, Nightmare can easily be punished for it.

Earth Divide, much like in the Soul Calibur games, is a risky move. It’s slow, predictable, yet pretty powerful. Instead of doing tons of damage like in the Soul Calibur games, Earth Divide has great knockback. This is the type of move that shouldn’t be relied on in a one on one fight; rather Earth Divide can find better use in free for all battles or tag matches.

Forward + B = Rush Crusher: (Seen at 5:47, first video)

Nightmare will dash forward at a surprising speed and strikes with his claw. This move can work as quick knockout attack at an un-expecting enemy. Rush Crusher has less range than the Fox Illusion, but can push the opponent quite far. Pressing the B button again makes Nightmare follow up with tackle. The first hit Deals 13% damage. The second deals 6% damage.

The reason one wouldn’t want to just continually spam the B button while performing the Rush Crusher is that the single hit can be combo-ed into by moves like Soul Wave, Slash Cross, and/or Dark High Kick on the ground. While in the air version of the attack can be combo-ed into and out of both the Rising Knight Kick and Fatal Brave Kick. The second hit would push the enemy too far to get a good combo.

Up + B = Soul Blaze/Cannonball Splitter: (Seen at 4:50 and 5:06, both on the second video)

Nightmare starts off by using a burning upward slash that will, unlike in Soul Calibur 3; raise him off of the ground. This initial attack deals 12% damage. Soul Blaze acts as a recovery attack for Nightmare and has the same height as Mario’s Super Jump Punch.
If the B button is hit again during the animation for Soul Blaze, Nightmare will then perform the Cannonball Splitter.

The Cannonball Splitter has Nightmare do a downwards spinning slash that moves diagonally. The Cannonball Splitter deals 8% damage. If you aren’t careful you could ring yourself out.

Down + B = Soul Wave: (Seen at 4:36, second video)

A newer move that Nightmare has access to starting in Soul Calibur 3, it has so far stayed with him since. Nightmare charges energy from his entire body, then releases it in an explosive red force field. Soul Wave’s design should look more like the version that was in SC4 and SC5, with a more noticeable hitbox and flashier look. This move has slightly more range as the Reflector, to fit Nightmare’s size better.

Soul Wave can be charged the longer the button is held, instead of dealing more damage, Soul Wave’s range can be doubled. This move has decent knockback, so it’s good for pushing enemies off of your back quickly. Normally Soul Wave deals an even 10% damage. Soul Wave has a sweet spot around Nightmare’s legs, which in turn makes Soul Wave deal 15% damage instead.

Soul Wave is a good surprise attack to use at the end of combos. And in the air, it’s the only option that Nightmare has that is abuse able.

Throws​

Spoiler

Throw + A = Pummel:

Nightmare grabs the opponent with his demonic arm. When pressing the A button, Nightmare will knee the opponent in the gut. Each hit deals 3%damage.

Forward Throw = Hilt Impact: (Seen at 6:41, first video)

Nightmare grabs his opponent with one arm, and uses the other to bash the hilt of Soul Edge at his opponent. Hilt Impact is Nightmare’s least damaging throw, dealing 10% damage. This throw also has a low amount of knockback.

Backward Throw = Thrust Throw: (Seen at 3:23, first video)

Nightmare thrust Soul Edge forward into the opponent, and then he slams them backwards. This throw is his most powerful throw, dealing an even 20% damage. But this move has powerful knockback, making it a bit easier to get a K.O with. Thrust throw sends the opponent straight backwards.

Up Throw = Flap Jack: (Seen at 7:01, first video)

Nightmare grabs the enemy’s legs and tosses them upwards. This throw deals 13% damage. The best thing about this throw is it’s powerful knockback. This can work as a useful tool for vertical knockouts.

Down Throw = Calamity Fall: (Seen at 6:53, first video)

Nightmare grabs the enemy from the side and jumps up into the air, after that, he will crash down with the enemy. Calamity Fall deals 15% damage, and the enemy is sent upwards. This throw has little to no knockback, but has good damage.

Air Attacks​

Spoiler

Neutral Air: Fatal Brave Kick: (seen at 4:29, second video)

Nightmare does a basic mid-air kick. Fatal Brave Kick can help extend combos if timed correctly at least. It’s reach is greater than Link’s Neutral Air, but smaller than Samus’. Fatal Brave Kick Deals 5% damage.

Forward Air: Jade Smasher:

Nightmare does an overhead punch that deals 11% damage. This is Nightmare’s most powerful air attack when used correctly. Jade Smasher works as a combo ender as well. This is also his Meteor Smash, though it has a sourspot. If any area other than the fist hits his target, Nightmare will only deal 5% damage, and will no longer meteor.

On the plus side, this attack has little landing lag.

Backward Air: Back Blade: (Seen at 1:31, second video)

Nightmare does a slow spin slash with Soul Edge. The Back Blade isn’t all that strong either, dealing only 8% damage. What this move does is push the enemy far back as a way for the user to have some breathing room in the ring. This move has about as much range as Marth’s Back Air.

Back Blade has slow startup and a lot of landing lag to go with it.

Up Air: Rising Knight Kick: (Seen at 6:37, first video)

Nightmare does a quick upward kick. This attack is mostly used as a means to help extend combos; as such it’s not very strong. Rising Knight Kick deals 6% damage. Rising Knight Kick has the fastest startup among Nightmare’s air attacks. This move’s landing lag is noticeable, but not terrible. This move has
very little knockback.

Down Air: Soul Smasher: (Seen at 4:40, second video)

Nightmare dives downward and slams Soul Edge into the ground. This move isn’t very strong, but it has its uses. The most important thing this attack can do is get Nightmare back on the ground, where he’ll do some serious damage from. This attack can also work as a combo ender. Soul Smasher deals 7% damage.

Playstyle
​

Spoiler

Nightmare is a somewhat slow, heavy, and powerful character. Being able to hit hard and take a good couple of hits too. Most of his combos are simple; normally being 4 or 5 hits. He has a spacing/mid-range game thanks to Soul Edge’s range being longer than most other sword users. Another aspect that helps his spacing game is the amount of knockback certain attacks have. But Nightmare still has a problem with projectile based characters, in that he lacks a real good approach to handle characters like Samus and Megaman.

He has quite a few easy killing moves on the ground, and he is a primarily ground based fighter. Because of this, he is very limited in the air, having only one spacing option available and a somewhat mediocre meteor Smash. Nightmare’s throws are rather powerful, said throws are meant to serve at his close range killing moves if one is forced to stay close.

Extra Stuff​

Intro: Nightmare rides on to the stage a demonic creature similar to what was seen on a concept art of Nightmare in Soul Calibur 1.

Stance: Something similar to this picture.

Character Theme: Raise Thy Sword ~ Soul Calibur 2

 

[ChainArmour712]

Hey at least I gave you some entertainment, but I mean that Heroes and Lost World may not be good but they were both big budget releases and Heroes sold very very well. The jury's out on Lost World, but both Nintendo and Sega seemed to make a big deal of it. Sonic, whether his games get good reviews or not, pay the bills for Sega. I had no idea about Tales in Japan, but I stick by my word that it isn't big enough in the West. In terms of Tekken, I think the fact Soul Calibur is released on more platforms would make it at least the most widespread series if not the best-selling. I think it's pretty close though. If Pac Man gets in then at least we get someone, but I think for anybody born after say 1985 Pac Man is just a relic from another era. He's not the top dog in sales even in his own company. Not to say I don't want him in; I just think the case for a SC rep is better.

 

[Welshy91]

Where was all this Nightmare support when I made a thread for him a while back?

 

[Knight Dude]

Where was all this Nightmare support when I made a thread for him a while back?

Well I was there. But a general Soul Calibur thread might promote more traffic.

 

[ChainArmour712]

I do think so. My position is that the rep would most likely be Sigfried, with Nightmare most likely as an alternate costume. Having a consolidated thread makes sense since the basic case for any SC rep is pretty much the same.