20XX Tournament Edition - Official Thread

[Dan Salvato]

http://20xx.me
​

Welcome to 20XX Tournament Edition - the Melee mod that works on any unmodified console using nothing but a memory card and a special save file.

This project is separate from Achilles' 20XX Training Hack Pack, another popular Melee mod. I encourage you to check it out as it is an amazing Melee mod that even has many features that 20XXTE does not have. If you would like to install the 20XX Training Hack Pack or would like to see what it offers, please refer to that thread.

For more information on 20XXTE, please see the official website.

This thread is to discuss the features and progress of 20XXTE from a development and metagame standpoint. For general questions about the project that only require a simple answer, please use the ask.fm link provided above. Thank you!

 

[Mikkelmann]

The hype is real.

 

[Quillion]

@ Dan Salvato :

Wait, how are you not affiliated with @achilles1515? I thought he assisted in getting much of it to fit on that puny Memory Card.

Plus you can't have used the 20XX name for a Melee mod for nothing...

 

[Dan Salvato]

@ Dan Salvato :

Wait, how are you not affiliated with @achilles1515? I thought he assisted in getting much of it to fit on that puny Memory Card.

Plus you can't have used the 20XX name for a Melee mod for nothing...

Achilles and I are friends and we share our code, notes, and musings all the time. What I mean is that each of our projects don't officially provide support or tie-ins with the other project. I'm just saying it so that people in Achilles' thread don't ask things about 20XXTE, and vice-versa. We share code with each other but the projects, as a whole, are separate.

 

[TerryJ]

I've been waiting for this my entire Melee life! I'm eventually going to invest in making SD Geckos for a lot more space on the memory card. I can't wait!

 

[flieskiller]

all hail wParam for this thread to exist

 

[uCooL]

I noticed some custom costumes in the trailer, were those custom made?

 

[Anutim]

I noticed some custom costumes in the trailer, were those custom made?

I'm pretty sure I've seen them in some TAS videos before, but I can't remember which unfortunately. :/

Also, @ Dan Salvato I think it would be badass if you could add options for people to change the colours of the CSS/SSS. I think this would be really appreciated and cool.

 

[flieskiller]

I'm pretty sure I've seen them in some TAS videos before, but I can't remember which unfortunately. :/

Also, @ Dan Salvato I think it would be badass if you could add options for people to change the colours of the CSS/SSS. I think this would be really appreciated and cool.

I expect Nintendo won't like custom colors on their game, see what happened to your custom skins at BEAST V...

It's still a possibility as a thing for the people though.

 

[TerryJ]

I expect Nintendo won't like custom colors on their game, see what happened to your custom skins at BEAST V...

It's still a possibility as a thing for the people though.

Yeah but it's just save data. There's literally no way for them to enforce such a rule without running the event themselves to enforce a rule like that then checking every memory card. That is way too much effort for that kind of thing to happen.

 

[MookieRah]

So I have several questions that aren't answered on your site if you don't mind answering them.

What training features will be in 20XXTE? Are the ones listed the only ones you plan to have in by launch? I'm thinking the CPU having random DI should be added if you can, as that makes a huge difference to what one is capable of doing. The next most important would be the save and load feature, but I would imagine that is way, way more intensive and likely not possible.

You say you would make a PAL version if there is demand for it, I guarantee you there is plenty of demand for it just from reading the Swedish Smash group's facebook discussion. What can we do to convince you to go through the effort of porting this to work on a PAL copy?

Also, just want to end it with a thought, not so much a question. If this becomes tournament standard, I wonder if the community would be willing to adopt an official version of the game (be it PAL, NTSC, or some kind of compromise). I know that is currently not within the scope of what you are doing, but I'm talking about the future. I think this community would gain a lot by having one community standard version that we all play. Seeing how one has to simply load up a memory card, this is accessible and legal enough to actually happen.

 

[Dan Salvato]

Current training features are the ones listed on the site, because they are the ones currently implemented. I hope to include random DI and teching as well, but since I haven't started on it, it's not yet listed on the site as an included feature. I might also incorporate stuff into Training Mode such as record/playback of inputs.

There are three factors that primarily decide whether or not I port to PAL. The first is the amount of time I will have to work on this project in the future. The second is how prevalent 20XXTE actually becomes in the game's meta, or if it winds up being a passing fad. The third is if I am able to receive help, which has actually been offered to me by Sham Rock, a great coder who has a PAL copy of Melee himself.

I don't see there being a global community standard version of Melee, because that is technically already within our capacity via USB loaders. NTSC regions would never willingly switch to PAL, and it's likely that PAL regions will simply use PAL for all of their local/regional tournaments and then use NTSC to train for tournaments overseas. When people have put hundreds of hours into the exact specifics of their copy, they will not be willing to arbitrarily switch.

 

[Cyjorg]

So I was explaining 20XXTE to a friend who isn't at all involved in the modding community when I realized that this is the same exploit that was used for the Twilight Hack in like 2006. Is it possible that we use the buffer overflow exploit to actually softmod Gamecubes?

 

[TerryJ]

So I was explaining 20XXTE to a friend who isn't at all involved in the modding community when I realized that this is the same exploit that was used for the Twilight Hack in like 2006. Is it possible that we use the buffer overflow exploit to actually softmod Gamecubes?

I had the same thought. With the quality of the mod being what it is, it's bound to attract a lot more people to take a look into hacking the cube more and I'm expecting to see homebrew at some point down the line.

 

[Scroll]

I think the optimal solution to the NTSC vs. PAL is to include both in the same pack, like Archilles did.
That way people can choose what version of their character they want to play in tournament regardless of region.
If that is at all possible, then I say that should be your number one priority and a true game changer!

 

[ElRudo]

@ Dan Salvato
The replay feature got me really excited and made me pre-order.

I'm wondering if it will be possible to export replays to a PC and watch them there, possibly using Dolphin?
I'm worried about the storage capacity of the memory card for someone who would record a lot of matches.

 

[Dan Salvato]

To my knowledge, softmodding Gamecubes is not possible because there is no filesystem for you to write to. There's just the BIOS/firmware which is not possible to modify.

@ Dan Salvato
I'm wondering if it will be possible to export replays to a PC and watch them there, possibly using Dolphin?
I'm worried about the storage capacity of the memory card for someone who would record a lot of matches.

This is theoretically possible but I can't be certain of its reliability until I test it. Dolphin may poll inputs differently or floats may be slightly rounded differently, which would cause desyncs. Hopefully it works without a hitch, though.

 

[Espi]

Will 20XXTE feature normal 20XX computer teching habits, to practice techchasing and such.

 

[fissionprime]

Do the CPU random DI and teching codes affect nana's behavior at all? If they do, then these things need to either be toggleable, or not included at all.

 

[Dan Salvato]

Do the CPU random DI and teching codes affect nana's behavior at all? If they do, then these things need to either be toggleable, or not included at all.

Every training-related code is toggleable, and regardless, I will make sure it doesn't affect Nana once I code it.

 

[Sepulcher]

As a frequent user of the 20XX hack pack, this excites me. I always wanted a mod that brought in stuff like stage striking and such without resorting to using 20XX at tournaments. (since there are some bugs that can cause problems) Not to mention this will allow me to just use a memory card instead of needing a Wii all the time. So I'll finally be able to being a lighter load to Melee-only tournaments without sacrificing features. I am totally getting a new memory card for this. :D

 

[flieskiller]

The biggest thing I'd like to see about the replay feature: Activating the Develop mode. Make the player able to pause the replay, advancing frame by frame, activating the hitbox bubbles and Ledge Grab Box so analyzing games would be incredible.

In other words, access to the DEVELOP setting to have a greater control to replays.

 

[ElRudo]

The biggest thing I'd like to see about the replay feature: Activating the Develop mode. Make the player able to pause the replay, advancing frame by frame, activating the hitbox bubbles and Ledge Grab Box so analyzing games would be incredible.

In other words, access to the DEVELOP setting to have a greater control to replays.

THIS!!! (I can't like enough so I post about my enthousiasm. Maybe I'll create multipe accounts for this purpose)

I'm not knowledgable into modding melee to know for sure, but that feels totally doable. If not on the GC, on Dolphin (if it works). Also, @ flieskiller knows some stuff, so that enourages me.

 

[Dan Salvato]

The replay system is pretty complicated and I'm not sure how much of that will be feasible while keeping the replay in sync. I hope to incorporate features like that but I can't make any promises until I run some tests. The replay feature is still very early in development, and I'm currently focusing on features that are critical for the first beta.

 

[Acryte]

THIS!!! (I can't like enough so I post about my enthousiasm. Maybe I'll create multipe accounts for this purpose)

I'm not knowledgable into modding melee to know for sure, but that feels totally doable. If not on the GC, on Dolphin (if it works). Also, @ flieskiller knows some stuff, so that enourages me.

That would be insane.

 

[MagicScrumpy]

Yo, this looks sick.

 

[Deleted member]

Keep up the good work!

It'd be nice to have more modifications like this that run off the save file instead.

 

[MintChipper]

MacD is streaming right now saying that he got 20XX, I'm not able to tune in to his stream at the moment but did you send the beta to him or is he talking about the normal 20XX hack pack? If you did send him the beta then you act crazy fast, you said closed beta in May and you meant it, that's dedication right there, I like it.

 

[CeLL]

MacD is streaming right now saying that he got 20XX, I'm not able to tune in to his stream at the moment but did you send the beta to him or is he talking about the normal 20XX hack pack? If you did send him the beta then you act crazy fast, you said closed beta in May and you meant it, that's dedication right there, I like it.

That is 20XX, not 20XXTE.

 

[Dan Salvato]

Beta doesn't ship for another two weeks or so, and only ~10 people are getting the first wave.

 

[Doq]

I rewatched the 20XXTE trailer (it's the closest thing to the real thing... soon...) and noticed animations in the Debug Menu. Is this a video trick or is this legit?

 

[CeLL]

I rewatched the 20XXTE trailer (it's the closest thing to the real thing... soon...) and noticed animations in the Debug Menu. Is this a video trick or is this legit?

I don't think this has been posted anywere...

Spoiler

Achilles' screenshot from a long time ago, heh

 

[Sodapopped]

Though I've never used 20XX because I'm too lazy to hack my Wii etc., I've already pre-ordered 20XXTE because it looks amazing and it's simple (plus I can let others use it at tournaments, awesome!).

I do have one worry though: Since I'm getting the version on the memory card, will I need a hacked system to update 20XXTE if an update is released?

It wouldn't be a problem since I hear hacking is easy, and also I'm sure not every update will be necessary for gameplay, but I'm just curious.

Keep up the great work, and good luck in the future!

 

[Acryte]

I rewatched the 20XXTE trailer (it's the closest thing to the real thing... soon...) and noticed animations in the Debug Menu. Is this a video trick or is this legit?

He posted that on his blog a while ago and I think it made it's way to the forums somewhere.

 

[flieskiller]

"Game Version - Toggle between v1.00 and v1.02 (affects hitlag behavior, Bowser's Flame Cancel, and Link/YLink boomerang cancel)"

Can we add too Ness' PK Thunder disappearing on hit with these other changes? It doesn't disappear in 1.00 and it's a pretty big nerf in 1.02, as it can save Ness getting hit if it gets propulsed in the PK Thunder.

By Glook (I've tested and confirm it works 100% like 1.00):

Okay, figured out how to prevent PK Thunder from disappearing on hit and death in v1.2, to make it functionally equivalent to v1.0:
042abcb0 4bfc7481
042abcb4 60000000

http://smashboards.com/threads/melee-gecko-codes-guide-and-discussion.327311/page-35#post-19230331

 

[Doq]

psst. workshop.

It's out, daze~
http://www.20xx.me/download.html

 

[Misa]

Good work Dan. I hope you can be truly proud of your work as it will be well appreciated!
Thank you!

 

[Acryte]

Dan Salvato Figured you guys might like some cool wallpapers.

Spoiler

20XX - A Cold Future (Black):

20XX - A Cold Future (Frost):

20XX A Cold Future (Frost) v2 (No blue coloration on Fox. Makes him pop out more):

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

I'm getting a new copy of melee soon. Hope to get a save file with 20xxte soon :D

 

[Acryte]

Been testing replay capacity just for some reference and understanding as an end user.

The following tests were conducted with 8 minutes on the clock.

Heavy mashing with 2 Jiggly puffs holding down and mashing about 3-4 buttons each at around 2-3 times a second the replay ended with 2:43 left.

With no buttons being mashed but both the C-Stick and Control Stick being held down (used controller reset to have the same tilt the whole time) on both controllers, it ended with about 4:02 left.

Control stick and C-stick stuff registers a ton more input than buttons. High APM stuff like Fox and Falco shine shenanigans won't actually affect the replay size/length much. DI/SDI with both sticks as well as dashing and Crouch Cancel heavy playstyles will see increased replay sizes and shorter recording times.