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OFFICIAL Sonic thread. (Keep it Brawl related, or suffer Xsy's/Xii's wrath!)

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kaid

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There's been a couple sonic threads, but nothing's linked in the sticky, so here's an official one.

Sonic has been Mario's archrival for decades, and Mario vs Sonic has been the subject of endless speculation, flash animation, and even poetry.

Sega and nintendo have been on good terms since the Dreamcast was defeated by Sony, and the creater of sonic (forgot his name right now) has been quoted saying he would like it if Sonic and Mario were in a game together. Considering the door to 3rd parties has been opened by Snake, who's creator "begged" for him to be put in Melee, Sonic's towering reputation and fanbase makes his inclusion almost a given.

Some here have said they don't want sonic because they feel he would have similar moves as Jigglypuff. These people have obviously only ever seen the Spindash, and not any of the countless othe moves he's had in his games.

I have taken the time to assemble a complete moveset to show these people how wrong they are.

Sonic would be a fastfaller
Sonic would NOT spin during his jump, saving that for one of his moves.
Sonic's Crouch would reduce traction. If sonic is moving while in a crouch, he curls up into his ball form. when it finally comes to a halt, then he enters a more conventional crouch-cancel position.

Neutral air: Classic spinjump
Back air: hedgehog spine attack (Sonic leans back a bit, and his entire backside becomes a hitbox. Very subtle)
Down air: a flipping kick-spike, similar to Mewtwo or Samus, but faster.
Foward air: spins and kicks foward, with good knockback (seen in shows)
Up air: backflip.

A: fire braclet- sonic punches for flame effects
Up a: Sonic leans foward a little, and his entire backside becomes a hitbox.
Tilt a: a really short roundhouse kick.
Down a: Sonic does a small foward kick.

Up B: Hidden Bumper: launches sonic upward (any game)
Side B: Homing Attack: works like C.Falcon's ^B, but knocks straight away, is aimable to a certian extent, and if it hits he can recover again. (Sonic Adventure, SA2, Sonic Heros, Shadow the Hedgehog)
Down B: Bounce: sonic spins straight down like yoshi or bowser, but instead of landing lag, he immediately launches back into the air. (Sonic3, SA2)
B: Fire Tackle: sonic launches foward, surrounded by flame (Sonic 3)

Downsmash: Swings feet foward, then back, while balancing on a hand
Upsmash: Fireshield (sonic 3)
Sidesmash: Spindash (ANY game): Sonic ends the attack in the Run animation.

Dash a: The Sonic Rush "turbo"- similar to shiek's dash attack, but about 2-3 times as long, and he comes out still running.

Grab: Magic Glove(SA2) While being held, a character is shrunk, just like when GW is throwing someone.
grab A: Sonic squeezes the shrunk-character ball
F-Throw: Weak, but with a Flat foward trajectory. (SA2)
^Throw: Sonic Tornado: (Sonic Heros) Sonic tosses opponent lightly upward, and spins around and makes a Smash64 style tornado with opponent inside. (fastfallers might be able to tech out before the tornado forms, at lower %age)
vThrow: sonic drops them to the ground, then does a spindash charge on them.
B-Throw: Carry, just like Dk's move, except Sonic moves (and falls) faster. (SA2)


ALTERNATE B MOVES
B: Sonic Wind (projectile, with upward knockback)
Fsmash: Flame tackle
vB in air: Bounce
vB on Ground: Spindash
 

nomis

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I think it was Yuji Naka that said he would like Sonic to be in smash, but he left Sonic team.
And Naoto Ohshima created Sonic, so he might've been the one that quoted that, but I may be wrong. Anyone know where to find the source of this?
 

BentoBox

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A thread which is about discussing stuff we've already argued countless times before.

I'm seriously about to shoot someone.
 

krazyzyko

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WOW, I love this character's moveset.
Nice post, Instead of SHFFL'ing I rather to bounce, aerial while rising and ounce again.

What about his jumping range, taunt, possitioning, rolling dodge, WD and runing speed? (faster than Falcon's I suppose)

...........later
 

McFox

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I had a dream a couple of days ago that Sonic was in the game. And I had a dream last year that Super Sonic was in the game.

So obviously, he will be in.
 

BentoBox

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nomis said:
BentoBox, although you are the answer to everything, kaid just wants to make this an 'Official' thread.
Is there even a need for these "official" threads?
 

kaid

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Jumps I'd expect to be the same heights as his games had.

With the way I set up his dash attack (you come out still running) he doesnt actually need a fast run speed to be fast- just keep spamming the dash a. You lose some control, but it's TOTALLY in character.
 

Sonix

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and what about shadow hes cool too and what about this new white hedghog
 

ilabb

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That's a really good job on that moveset, I like it. ESPECIALLY that down B, just how I'd have imagined it XD

What about for up B, he does the lightning shield jump from Sonic 3?
 

Lishy

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SHADOW SHOULD BE A COSTUME!SHADOW FOR NON PLAYABLE CHARACTOR BUT A COSTUME!

wait howbout shadow as adventure boss for sonic?
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Being a Sonic the Hedgehog gamer, as well as a person who actually fully plays Sonic Battle and nearly every sonic series game, I got to say, Shadow is a better choice than Tails, and he doesn't even need to be a clone at all.

Even in SA2, Sonic and Shadow were quite different with their own running speeds, and different styles. Though they have a couple of similar moves, Shadow was never a real clone. The only one amongst that game that could be considered a clone was Tails, as all he was was a heroic verison of Eggman. Shadow proved to be extremely different from his own game, as well as Sonic Battle.

Shadow performs extremely different moves in Sonic Battle, making him his own character and not a clone of Sonic. The only similarity in the game was pretty much their running speed, and he's still faster(but harder to control)

A good way to put this is comparing Falco to Falcon. Falcon and Shadow are both quite strong, and extremely fast, but super hard to control. Falco is still very fast, but relatively easy to control. This is the basic comparison. Also, Sonic is much weaker than Shadow, but originally sported a few more moves, giving him an advantage only in options.(Bounce Attack, basically) Here's my comprehensive move list for Sonic, based loosely on Sonic Battle and Sonic The Fighters, with a couple of other games.

A: Punch(a very basic forward punch)
AA: Kick(same as the punch, but a little bit more sideways)
AAA: Top Kick(he puts his hand on the ground, and kicks forward, much like a strong soccer kick)
Forward A: Over Punch(he swings his fist in a similar fashion to a spinning side kick)
Up A: Ring Toss(he tosses a ring slightly upward, dealing a small ammount of damage with decent knockback)
Down A: Sonic Spin(he simply spins on the ground, dealing a slight ammount of damage. Constant pushing of the move makes is somewhat stronger, with a bit more knockback. He doesn't move anywhere, though)
Smash A: Flare Kick(using his hand, he does a spin kick arching forward that circles around the ground. He then lands backwards. While the afterlag is bad, the attack is quite strong with decent enough knockback)
Smash Up A: Up Draft(pretty much the same as Fox's Up Smash)
Smash Down A: Windmill(quite similar to DK's Smash Down A from the 64 version. Only his feet spin, though, looks stupid, of course)
Dash A: Slide Kick(he slides forward with a kick, fairly similar to Mario's dash, but he looks a bit different)
B: Wave Fire(more or less a Falcon Kick, but as a projectile. He jumps backwards when he's done, much like when Falcon hits against a wall. It works the same way for the Air version)
Forward B: Ring Dash(same as Fox's forward b, but shorter)
Up B: Homing Attack(he does a high arch spin in the air. If a character is there, it targets them instead, as he will an item. If it hits a character, he can do it again, but only in the same direction, thus making it less broken)
Down B: Bounce Attack(much like how DK can't use down b in the air, it works the same way on the ground. He bounces straight downward, but can jump out of it if he has a jump left. It doesn't provide infinite jumps of course)
Air Neutral A: Kick(a basic diagonal kick with little damage)
Air Forward A: Fire Shield(he moves forward while on fire, which doesn't go far, but makes him immune to pure fire attacks(as Flare Blade would not be blocked, as its both Fire and a Sword being used))
Air Up A: Electric Shield(he jumps up slightly with an electric shock, and becomes immune to pure electric techniques)
Air Back A: Shield(a small blue shield appears over him as he spins. It does little damage, but can clash with other attacks fairly easily)
Air Down A: Eagle(a weak spike that is hard to hit, but has decent power. Weak in damage, but not in knockback)
Z: Grab(as Magic Glove sounds nice, it seems a bit too strong as we all know that it has extremely huge range. Thus, this doesn't crappify the technique's expectations)
Z + A: Fire Punch(he punches his victim with a bit of fire on his hand)
Z Forward: Spin Fire(he spins into them, and sends 'em flying, fairly similar to Wave Fire)
Z Up: The Ringer(he slams a ring into them, throwing 'em upward, but not very far)
Z Back: Spine(he throws his spines into the opponent, making them inch back. Good damage with very little knockback)
Z Down: Foot Stomp(originally from Sonic The Fighters, he stomps their foot, immobilizing them for a 2 seconds of gametime. However, Sonic has a bit of afterlag to even it out)
Taunt: Finger shake(he shakes his finger as the screen)
Win Taunt 1: "That was cool!"(he shouts this out as the screen as he waits in his SA2 stage finish, complete with the original music from the games)
Win Taunt 2: Yaah!(he does a ton of spins and homing attack as a homage to his Team Blast from Sonic Heroes)
Win Taunt 3: "Nice try, Eggman!"(basically says this while looking at the screen...okay, worst one, I know)

Now for his stats.
Jump: 4
Speed: 5
Power: 3
Defense: 4

As for colors, they can be a simple as different shades, but none needs to be Super Sonic itself(as in his hair flopping up, etc. A simple plain yellow hue works)

That's all I've got, and since this isn't a Shadow thread, I won't do his.
 

Lishy

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meh i either want super sonic a limit breaker of costume but imo i want shadow as a costume.what else will sonic be?itll be his red costume and his green idk......blue is his defualt
 

Lishy

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idk i feel they are to simaler but it MIGHT work out.

meh i feel like having amy in the game but theres already 2 to many sonci charactors(sonic is only one confirmed in a way)
 

kaid

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ilabb said:
That's a really good job on that moveset, I like it. ESPECIALLY that down B, just how I'd have imagined it XD

What about for up B, he does the lightning shield jump from Sonic 3?
Thank you.

For up-B, I considered that, but decided those stupid invisible bumpers that pop out of nowhere while you're running, sending you flying, would be a better choice, and I could save the lighning shield for a special effect of his airjump.

For costumes, I agree. Sonic=blue team, Shadow=red team, (weird sonic recolor)=greenteam
 

Falco&Victory

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I think for his super move,he should go super sonic/hyper shadow depending on costume.Every attack will be crazy accurate and powerful,and mode would last 5-10 seconds.
 

xianfeng

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Shadow is not as well known as Tails so if sonic were to bring along a pal it would be Tails as being a non sonic gamer he is the only other one I know about :laugh:
 

Ixplis

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I could see shadow being a clone of sonic. They're similar, but not the same, just like any clones in SSBM. I'd like to see Tails in there too, maybe something like Jiggly or Kirby.
 

Zodiak-Lucien

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I was just thinking of a better up B move from you list. Why doesnt he throw a ring up for the first time you push it and dash towards it when you hit up B again. This is in sonic battle and I think that would add more skill to the situation. Maybe it should have the launch mechanics similar to yoshi's egg on how much you can varible the distance
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Zodiak-Lucien said:
I was just thinking of a better up B move from you list. Why doesnt he throw a ring up for the first time you push it and dash towards it when you hit up B again. This is in sonic battle and I think that would add more skill to the situation. Maybe it should have the launch mechanics similar to yoshi's egg on how much you can varible the distance
And this would work as a recovery...how? Be a bit realistic. It works fine as a Forward B, Neutral B, or even Down B, but for Up B, how will he do it in the air? This is Sonic, not Yoshi, and he throws it in an arc, which doesn't work so well in the air. Yes, I know Chaos Zero does the same idea arc-wise, but it's a projectile, not a light dash.

I think, mechanics-wise, it'd be easier for his Light Dash to just be a Fox Illusion clone, but would home in on an item direction-wise(as best as possible).

As for Up B, the Homing Attack sounds good, as long as it's not as broken as the ??? version from Sonic Battle, which literally was a HOMING attack. Jeez, it was worse than seeker missiles in real life...

Anyway, the earlier move list made by the topic creator was nice, and very well done. I forgot to add his Super Move, and while Super Sonic sounds nice, Ancient Light seems perfect for this game. He charges up then homing attacks towards all enemies and items and hits them all ONCE overall, but does not phantom damage.(as in passing through them, yet doing damage even though there was no connected hits)

Well, those are my opinions, anyway.
 

kaid

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Hyperfalcon: As the topic creater, I thank you for that review of my moveset.

Homing attack has always been a very fast move that chains very well. To make it aimable, you either have to make it self-homing(broken), slower than normal(unacceptable!), or simply have a very limited aim arc. I chose SideB for homing attack in my moveset because Sonic almost never gains height when he uses it. The way I have it set up, you can angle it like you can angle an ftilt, but it goes off instantly.
 

Lange

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HyperFalcon said:
Being a Sonic the Hedgehog gamer, as well as a person who actually fully plays Sonic Battle and nearly every sonic series game, I got to say, Shadow is a better choice than Tails, and he doesn't even need to be a clone at all.

Even in SA2, Sonic and Shadow were quite different with their own running speeds, and different styles. Though they have a couple of similar moves, Shadow was never a real clone. The only one amongst that game that could be considered a clone was Tails, as all he was was a heroic verison of Eggman. Shadow proved to be extremely different from his own game, as well as Sonic Battle.

Shadow performs extremely different moves in Sonic Battle, making him his own character and not a clone of Sonic. The only similarity in the game was pretty much their running speed, and he's still faster(but harder to control)

A good way to put this is comparing Falco to Falcon. Falcon and Shadow are both quite strong, and extremely fast, but super hard to control. Falco is still very fast, but relatively easy to control. This is the basic comparison. Also, Sonic is much weaker than Shadow, but originally sported a few more moves, giving him an advantage only in options.(Bounce Attack, basically) Here's my comprehensive move list for Sonic, based loosely on Sonic Battle and Sonic The Fighters, with a couple of other games.

A: Punch(a very basic forward punch)
AA: Kick(same as the punch, but a little bit more sideways)
AAA: Top Kick(he puts his hand on the ground, and kicks forward, much like a strong soccer kick)
Forward A: Over Punch(he swings his fist in a similar fashion to a spinning side kick)
Up A: Ring Toss(he tosses a ring slightly upward, dealing a small ammount of damage with decent knockback)
Down A: Sonic Spin(he simply spins on the ground, dealing a slight ammount of damage. Constant pushing of the move makes is somewhat stronger, with a bit more knockback. He doesn't move anywhere, though)
Smash A: Flare Kick(using his hand, he does a spin kick arching forward that circles around the ground. He then lands backwards. While the afterlag is bad, the attack is quite strong with decent enough knockback)
Smash Up A: Up Draft(pretty much the same as Fox's Up Smash)
Smash Down A: Windmill(quite similar to DK's Smash Down A from the 64 version. Only his feet spin, though, looks stupid, of course)
Dash A: Slide Kick(he slides forward with a kick, fairly similar to Mario's dash, but he looks a bit different)
B: Wave Fire(more or less a Falcon Kick, but as a projectile. He jumps backwards when he's done, much like when Falcon hits against a wall. It works the same way for the Air version)
Forward B: Ring Dash(same as Fox's forward b, but shorter)
Up B: Homing Attack(he does a high arch spin in the air. If a character is there, it targets them instead, as he will an item. If it hits a character, he can do it again, but only in the same direction, thus making it less broken)
Down B: Bounce Attack(much like how DK can't use down b in the air, it works the same way on the ground. He bounces straight downward, but can jump out of it if he has a jump left. It doesn't provide infinite jumps of course)
Air Neutral A: Kick(a basic diagonal kick with little damage)
Air Forward A: Fire Shield(he moves forward while on fire, which doesn't go far, but makes him immune to pure fire attacks(as Flare Blade would not be blocked, as its both Fire and a Sword being used))
Air Up A: Electric Shield(he jumps up slightly with an electric shock, and becomes immune to pure electric techniques)
Air Back A: Shield(a small blue shield appears over him as he spins. It does little damage, but can clash with other attacks fairly easily)
Air Down A: Eagle(a weak spike that is hard to hit, but has decent power. Weak in damage, but not in knockback)
Z: Grab(as Magic Glove sounds nice, it seems a bit too strong as we all know that it has extremely huge range. Thus, this doesn't crappify the technique's expectations)
Z + A: Fire Punch(he punches his victim with a bit of fire on his hand)
Z Forward: Spin Fire(he spins into them, and sends 'em flying, fairly similar to Wave Fire)
Z Up: The Ringer(he slams a ring into them, throwing 'em upward, but not very far)
Z Back: Spine(he throws his spines into the opponent, making them inch back. Good damage with very little knockback)
Z Down: Foot Stomp(originally from Sonic The Fighters, he stomps their foot, immobilizing them for a 2 seconds of gametime. However, Sonic has a bit of afterlag to even it out)
Taunt: Finger shake(he shakes his finger as the screen)
Win Taunt 1: "That was cool!"(he shouts this out as the screen as he waits in his SA2 stage finish, complete with the original music from the games)
Win Taunt 2: Yaah!(he does a ton of spins and homing attack as a homage to his Team Blast from Sonic Heroes)
Win Taunt 3: "Nice try, Eggman!"(basically says this while looking at the screen...okay, worst one, I know)

Now for his stats.
Jump: 4
Speed: 5
Power: 3
Defense: 4

As for colors, they can be a simple as different shades, but none needs to be Super Sonic itself(as in his hair flopping up, etc. A simple plain yellow hue works)

That's all I've got, and since this isn't a Shadow thread, I won't do his.
Very nice post, I was hoping someone would consider moves for Sonic from games like Sonic the fighters and Sonic battle.

This may go off the moveset disussion, but I am hoping if we see Sonic in SSBB that he can be the Sonic from the new Sonic the hedgehog, game, taller sleeker and this could also imply to his move set also, with graphics from Sonics attacks in the new Sonic the Hedgehog being added to SSBB.
 

Azukki

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He would make a good fighter, to say the least.

I like the sonic game series secondly to SSB, but mixing them just doesn't sound that great.

I'm kinda neutral about him being in it, because I want the third party characters to a minimum... but if there are any other than snake, sonic would be a good one.

Also, for Up + B, in mid air, it could be a boost ring rather than a spring. also, with that, other characters could perhaps also use the spring, and then it disappears after 1 or 2 seconds.


I could see him in SSBB. It could certainly work, but nintendo won't be asking unless enough suggestions come in. Or if sega asks, but that seems less likely.
 

smoothballer

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Wait, where's the Jigglypuff move? Ya know, the main move that everybody knows Sonic for.....is that your running A? His B should be just like Jigglypuffs B....... And also, he should be the fastest character in the game, without having to "spam the A button."
 

smoothballer

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Oh and I think his ^B should be like Samus' ^B.....in fact, I bet that's what it will be, if Sonic is in the game, which I'm sure he will be.
 

Oro

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Smoothballer, don't double post. If you have something extra to say, use the edit button to add it to your last post.
 

nomis

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Holy crap hyperfalcon, that's a long *** post.

I would've said something like:
Sonic should have the mirrored moveset of Mario.

But you, sir, did a fine job.
 

smoothballer

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So is his sidesmash gona shoot him forward like in his games? You should be able to do his spindash across the level, but a smashmove that goes across the level doesn't seem right.....And yeah, I guess he shouldn't be able to spindash in the air like jiggs, sooooooo, what you could do, is when he's in the air, his down B will do the smash (ala yoshi, bowser as you suggested) but when hes on the ground his down B will perform just as it did in the old Sega games. Just hold down, and tap B repeatedly, let go and spindash like Jigglypuff.
 

smoothballer

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Oro said:
Smoothballer, don't double post. If you have something extra to say, use the edit button to add it to your last post.
I wanted to add to my post count..... :p

Oh wait, your a mod.........uuuuuuuhhhhh, ok, SORRY SIR! WONT HAPPEN AGAIN SIR!
 

Oro

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Posting just for the sake of increasing your post count is called "spamming" and it's a great way to get yourself banned quickly. If you enjoy using this forum, I recommend that you don't double post any more, and that you only post when you have something worthwhile to add to the thread.
 

Perfect Chaos

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kaid said:
Up B: Hidden Bumper: launches sonic upward (any game)
Side B: Homing Attack: works like C.Falcon's ^B, but knocks straight away, is aimable to a certian extent, and if it hits he can recover again. (Sonic Adventure, SA2, Sonic Heros, Shadow the Hedgehog)
Down B: Bounce: sonic spins straight down like yoshi or bowser, but instead of landing lag, he immediately launches back into the air. (Sonic3, SA2)
B: Fire Tackle: sonic launches foward, surrounded by flame (Sonic 3)
I've come up with a moveset similar to this one, but it adds more moves that Sonic uses through his history:

B (while in the air): Homing Attack - He'll curl into a ball and quickly dash forward a little bit (about as far as Peach's Peach Bomber). If you hit something (e.g. a wall, another character) you'll bounch off at 45° upwards, and you can do it again if you want to. Use can use it similar to Wall bombing. If you don't hit anything, then you can't use it again until you land, but you can still use other moves (just like in the SA games).
B (while on the ground): Fire Somersault - He'll curl up and roll forward a little bit (about half the distance of Kirby's dash attack). He'll be on fire of course, and burn anyone who tounches him.

Up-B: Bumper - a bumper appears under him, springing him upwards (sort of like Mr. G&W's up-B). No change here...

Forward-B: Light Dash - A horizontal row of rings appears in front of him. Lets say, 30 frames later, he dashes forward at high speed (about as fast as the Fox Illusion) and damages the people he touches. Goes as far as Zelda's Farore's Wind (but only horizontal), so it can be used for recovery. Within that 30 frames, someone can grab a ring(s) to shorten the distance of travel (since Light Dash stops when there are no more rings to travel on), so someone the quick reflexes and is there at the right time, could stop Sonic from recovering.

Down-B (while in the air): Bounce - He'll quickly go straight downwards as a ball, and if he hits solid ground, he'll bounce back up. Can be used repeatively, but not too repetitively like in SA2, or it'll be kind of cheap. It does the most damage right after he bounces. Again, no change here...
Down-B (while on the ground): Spin Dash - He'll get into his Spin Dash charge position. Hold B to charge and release B to unleash the attack (like Jigglypuff's Rollout). You cannot change directions like Jigglypuff, but if you press B again while be does it, he'll get out of it, allowing you to move normally again (and possibly at max running speed like that glitch on SA).

Also, when he jumps, he'll be in the same position as he jumps on the SA games. He won't do damage like the old Sonic games, but he'll still be curled up like in the SA games.


What do you guys think of this moveset? I tried to get as many different moves that Sonic has had throughout his history in his Special moveset as possible. Oh, and that Magic Glove for grabbing idea is pretty cool!
 
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