Wario
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Match-Up Discussion #22! Wario
- Thread starter Steel
- Start date
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bludhoundz
Smash Ace
I don't have much exp vs Wario but I'd say 60:40 Marth.
Wario can be zoned effectively.
His air game is ridiculous though, you have to space really well because his mobility is amazing.
His recovery is better and he weighs more so he dies later, but Marth can gimp Wario more than Wario can gimp Marth.
At a high level of play, I see Marth winning this matchup more often than not, but I don't believe his advantage is anything like 70:30.
Wario can be zoned effectively.
His air game is ridiculous though, you have to space really well because his mobility is amazing.
His recovery is better and he weighs more so he dies later, but Marth can gimp Wario more than Wario can gimp Marth.
At a high level of play, I see Marth winning this matchup more often than not, but I don't believe his advantage is anything like 70:30.
Emblem Lord
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Wario already had slight disadvantage due to obvious reasons like being outranged and pressured easily, but grab release nonsense pushed it a little more in Marth's favor.
70/30 or 65/35 at best.
70/30 or 65/35 at best.
feardragon64
Smash Champion
Another simple matchup. Space effectively, and you're fine.
Don't let him get close enough to fsmash because if you try and space at that point with jabs, dtilts, ftilt, dancing blades, etc. the super armor will own you. Just back off and reset. That or grab if you get the chance.
Wario approaches a lot more from the air because his aerial influence is pretty ridiculous. But again, you outrange him.
Long story short, Marth outranges Wario. That is practically the summary of this match. The only reason a Marth will loose this match up is because he gets caught off guard and doesn't space properly.
Don't let him get close enough to fsmash because if you try and space at that point with jabs, dtilts, ftilt, dancing blades, etc. the super armor will own you. Just back off and reset. That or grab if you get the chance.
Wario approaches a lot more from the air because his aerial influence is pretty ridiculous. But again, you outrange him.
Long story short, Marth outranges Wario. That is practically the summary of this match. The only reason a Marth will loose this match up is because he gets caught off guard and doesn't space properly.
Remzi
formerly VaBengal
He is tough to space against, his recovery is amazing, and his aerial game is insane. That being said, you still outrange him and can **** him with grab releases. And he has no projectile so you can camp him all you want. Still his aerial mobility and ability to quickly kill put this matchup at :
60:40 Marth
60:40 Marth
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
The only thing that I find troublesome is the unpredictability of his bike.
It come out so fast, but if you can predict it, or if a wario's stupid enough to leave one on stage, use it against him.
Also, like most said, space correctly.
My, we want these character discussions done quickly huh? =:]
It come out so fast, but if you can predict it, or if a wario's stupid enough to leave one on stage, use it against him.
Also, like most said, space correctly.
My, we want these character discussions done quickly huh? =:]
I would say it is 65 : 35 for Marth, Wario already has the range issues and the grab release pushes Wario's overall disadvantage even further. Without the grab release, it would be probably 60 : 40, but having a guaranteed killing setup on Wario is too powerful of an advantage to dismiss.
You want to do one a week? That would take freaking forever. We are to the point where match ups really shouldn't take more than 2 days.
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
I know excellent point, im just stating, I like it personally
3xSwords
Smash Lord
Realizing that Wario can't do **** while in the beginning of his bike makes his recovery a lot simpler to gimp. You definitely outspace him, and the times he hits you in the air is when he baits you to attack and then jumps in. Don't spot dodge excessively, because of his bite. So spacing is win.
Ummmmm....... Oh yeah! Grab release trix ftw!!!!!!
Personally I do grab release > u-smash to rack up damage, and grab release > tipper f-smash for the kill.
Ummmmm....... Oh yeah! Grab release trix ftw!!!!!!
Personally I do grab release > u-smash to rack up damage, and grab release > tipper f-smash for the kill.
Megavitamins
Smash Champion
What can Marth hit wario out of his grab release with?
Fsmash, up smash, up tilt, ftilt (?), fair, nair, DS. Also I think you can ALMOST chain grab him if you try and grab his foot, though i think he can just barely jump out if he is quick enough.
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
Yea I agree 65:35 is where this match-up should fall at because of grab release and other factors already touched on by you guys.
Also if your at the edge and you grab release if your quick enough and use proper spacing you can d-air wario. I wouldn't recommend tho its rather difficult. But so fun when you do it.
Also steel you can pretty much hit wario with any of marth's move after grab release
Also if your at the edge and you grab release if your quick enough and use proper spacing you can d-air wario. I wouldn't recommend tho its rather difficult. But so fun when you do it.
Also steel you can pretty much hit wario with any of marth's move after grab release
Remzi
formerly VaBengal
Regrabbing is really hard. The easiest killing option to land if he is at a high enough percent is uair. It requires no skill at all to tip or time.
Nibbity
Smash Journeyman
eh, i'm surprised no one mentioned his bike, it's a pretty good trick. Sort of hard to dodge because he can slow down, speed up, and eat his bike after.
Some attacks will hit, but he will run right through others, such as any tilts. I'd recommend either Air dodging right through him or using an aggressive attack. Probably the first one because Wario will either have to turn around, which is slow and he could fall off, or jump off and have a stupid useless bike that is too heavy for him to throw. The wheels are very easy to dodge imo.
Some attacks will hit, but he will run right through others, such as any tilts. I'd recommend either Air dodging right through him or using an aggressive attack. Probably the first one because Wario will either have to turn around, which is slow and he could fall off, or jump off and have a stupid useless bike that is too heavy for him to throw. The wheels are very easy to dodge imo.
3xSwords
Smash Lord
ummmm, fair and DS will take care of the bike. Just make sure you hit wafio himself.
And no Bengals u-smash is the easiest thing to tip and with a little practice f-smash can be become your instant kill
65-35.
And no Bengals u-smash is the easiest thing to tip and with a little practice f-smash can be become your instant kill
65-35.
65:35 then, moving on.
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
On a side note wario is kinda fun to play I like his DACUS 
SZ2K
Smash Rookie
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Sorry to resurrect this thread but I need to know something about the grab release on Wario. On Battlefield it seems like if I'm under one of the side platforms and I grab release him he lands in a perfect fsmash tipper position. My question is if this is guaranteed contact if timed correctly, because once I felt I had the timing spot on and a CPU perfected shielded, which I guess would mean a player could put up a shield as well. Last 2 tourneys I lost by very slim margins to the same Wario =\ Didn't even know about the grab release though.
takeurlife2
Smash Ace
This matchup needs revisited.
I'll share what i know and what i have found, due to the fact that i have a DMG in my area.
The most important thing i want to mention first off is that the "just grab him" strategy is completely outdated. The grab release hardly matters now that wario is near impossible to grab.
That being said, i've been experimenting with this matchup ever since i lost to a DMG style wario at FS5. From what i've found, the best option is to NEVER stop flailing your sword. I mean, double retreating Fair, random nairs(of course at a good distance), etc etc. The matchup, to an extent, reminds me of fighting jiggs in melee.
If you HAVE to approach(which you probably will), only do a single fair in the air, not a fast falled one. The reason behind this is that a good wario will merely shield or worse powershield a fast falled one and nair out of shield during your stun. Nair out of shield is easlily chased with a grab/fsmash from the fatty for a good 23+ damage.
----after getting a safe lead, i usually proceed to the first strategy of flailing.
When the wario has to, or chooses to, approach, he will most always jump, airdoge, and then be inside of you. The only counter to this, due to his airspeed, is watch for it. If you see him airdodge down, immediately fast fall and grab during his shield or landing lag. If you hit him with any attack, he will nair OOS or grab you.
My strategy isnt 100% effective though, as most matches still get to 1 stock mid %'s or higher. But, needless to say, this matchup is turning now that wario is a campy ******* and it needs to be discussed further. That is, if you want to win. =)
I'll share what i know and what i have found, due to the fact that i have a DMG in my area.
The most important thing i want to mention first off is that the "just grab him" strategy is completely outdated. The grab release hardly matters now that wario is near impossible to grab.
That being said, i've been experimenting with this matchup ever since i lost to a DMG style wario at FS5. From what i've found, the best option is to NEVER stop flailing your sword. I mean, double retreating Fair, random nairs(of course at a good distance), etc etc. The matchup, to an extent, reminds me of fighting jiggs in melee.
If you HAVE to approach(which you probably will), only do a single fair in the air, not a fast falled one. The reason behind this is that a good wario will merely shield or worse powershield a fast falled one and nair out of shield during your stun. Nair out of shield is easlily chased with a grab/fsmash from the fatty for a good 23+ damage.
----after getting a safe lead, i usually proceed to the first strategy of flailing.
When the wario has to, or chooses to, approach, he will most always jump, airdoge, and then be inside of you. The only counter to this, due to his airspeed, is watch for it. If you see him airdodge down, immediately fast fall and grab during his shield or landing lag. If you hit him with any attack, he will nair OOS or grab you.
My strategy isnt 100% effective though, as most matches still get to 1 stock mid %'s or higher. But, needless to say, this matchup is turning now that wario is a campy ******* and it needs to be discussed further. That is, if you want to win. =)
wario is dumb
like take said, keep hitboxes out and just run away with your sword while having the occasional pivot grab in there is my approach vs wario
like take said, keep hitboxes out and just run away with your sword while having the occasional pivot grab in there is my approach vs wario
BarDulL
Town Vampire
I've been doing well against Fiction's Wario as of recent. I personally feel that the match up is in Marth's favor, but I'm not sure what the numbers look like exactly. I want to say 60:40, but it could be a little bit more for Marth.
I'm starting to think it's 60:40 Marth instead of 65:35. Grabbing Marth is too good.
IDK what Fiction thinks, he used to say some stuff like Marth vs Wario is even haha, he probably thinks it's 60:40 too. I know you and Fiction play a lot Bardull, has he said anything recently about that matchup?
IDK what Fiction thinks, he used to say some stuff like Marth vs Wario is even haha, he probably thinks it's 60:40 too. I know you and Fiction play a lot Bardull, has he said anything recently about that matchup?
BanjoKazooiePro
Smash Champion
I think this matchup is 60:40 Marth, or even 65:35 at most. Marth's range is all he needs in this matchup.
kirbywizard
Smash Hero
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do not underestimate that which jiggles, 60-40. Good luck grabbing wario. You range is something you should use well, your advantage when it comes to range. Never loosen up at anytime. You will regret it, I dont think you would run into any trouble with bite, unless you roll or spot dodge into it >_<. If your dumb enough to fall for a wario bait, in which you try spiking wario not knowing he has a fully charged warft >_>. BUt I don't think you would be dumb enough to not notice a fully charged wario warft.
Pierce7d
Wise Hermit
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Reflex just destroyed me at COT4. Everything I knew about this match-up was thrown in my face and called a lie, ROFL.
Wario's lag is fictional. He LOOKS like he's open, but he's not. Dtilt is an amazing tool here. I need to restudy this match-up before I can give more input, but it's not greater than 60-40
Wario's lag is fictional. He LOOKS like he's open, but he's not. Dtilt is an amazing tool here. I need to restudy this match-up before I can give more input, but it's not greater than 60-40
You played his Wario and then his PT right? I actually saw that on livestream.
And yeah, Reflex is too good vs Marth. I don't know how he does it, he has like this amazing image of spacing in his head and right past your tipper he just waits and moves in after you attack lol. It's ridiculous haha.
And yeah, Reflex is too good vs Marth. I don't know how he does it, he has like this amazing image of spacing in his head and right past your tipper he just waits and moves in after you attack lol. It's ridiculous haha.
kirbywizard
Smash Hero
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like I said do not underestimate that which jiggles in fat, you will regret it, on a side note you marth user can counter our smashs and bike if you spot it ahead of timw
Nefarious B
Smash Champion
Ya I saw that on the stream too, was really surprising.
ssbbFICTION
Smash Champion
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I'm going to say 60-40 marth....but not more. I have a nasty time vs bardull's marth a lot of the time, and marth's matchup vs wario is pretty comfortable. Marth has pivot grab camping with tipper f smash grab release and he outprioritizes everything.
On the other hand, if wario plays it right, marth should never be able to get back on the stage. I've also discovered some tricks vs marth recently that i'll be adding into my game...maybe bardull will start to see them soon :D
On the other hand, if wario plays it right, marth should never be able to get back on the stage. I've also discovered some tricks vs marth recently that i'll be adding into my game...maybe bardull will start to see them soon :D
Yeah that stuff is dumb lol. It's way too easy to edgeguard Marth with that. And yes Fiction, I was wrong about it being useless lol. I'm right though about the self tech chase, but everything else you were right lol
ssbbFICTION
Smash Champion
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Actually....I don't think I've told you all of them yet XD. I just discovered it like yesterday.
slikvik
Smash Master
we need to talk. neo's been ****** my **** recently. aid me on aim both of you
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
lmao slik 
ssbbFICTION
Smash Champion
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You guys still have it listed as 65:35 T_T
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
[EDIT] Double post mess up.
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
You have to convince the MBR and the boards in general I guess. You and DMG did bring up some good points though.You guys still have it listed as 65:35 T_T
Oh, it's probably 60:40. I was just too lazy to fix it XD Changing now.You guys still have it listed as 65:35 T_T
ssbbFICTION
Smash Champion
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Hurray lol.
Pierce7d
Wise Hermit
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Ugh, I forgot Fiction knows about that gay edgeguard. I hope I NEVER have to fight you. You told Spam about that crap, and added Wario to the number of characters he can beat me with. I hope you haven't been telling everyone about that.
<- Wario is this man's least liked character.
<- Wario is this man's least liked character.