Match-up discussion #7: Snake

Snake

Things to watch out for:

- His tilts, especially ftilt and utilt
- His attack power is over 9000!!!!!
- 3rd heaviest character in the game...hard to finish
- His projectile, camping game
- His ATs - most notably Mortar Slide and Glide Tossed Grenades
- For some reason, this guy has lots of disjointed hitboxes

How to win this fight;

- Stop his camping via Shine
- Blaster stops the mortar slide - his best approach
- Use dthrow at the edge to set up a spike
- Perfect spacing is yet again a must here
- Don't use laggy moves, especially fsmash. Snake will punish you hard
- Always try to sneak in a blaster shot for dmg - the more the better

Comments:

I already had a debate with teekay about this match-up and I - among many others - think it's a 50:50 match-up. Snake has without a doubt the better properties for a game like this but Wolf has surprisingly many options, despite Snakes power, thanks to his moveset.

You'll be surprised, how much you can limit Snakes options with only two moves: Blaster and Reflector. Reflector and Blaster can shut down every camping game, forcing his opponents to approach - Snake is no exception. The difference is that Snakes mobility isn't exactly the best. The Mortar Slide usually takes care of that but it leaves Snake open for a blaster, which deals damage and stops the sliding. Try to exploit this weakness as much as you can, since most players will find a way around it, despite Snakes bad mobility in the air.

The other major issue here is finishing him off. Snake is extremely heavy - don't even try to land a ceiling KO on him, it's a waste of time. What may help you is Snakes recovery which leaves him open for Spikes. Getting him down the Edge with a dthrow shouldn't be impossible and it sets him up perfectly. Be warned: It's everything but easy to do, but a successful spike will greatly decrease the battle difficulty and Snake doesn't fancy being constantly pushed down the edge.

Other than that, Snake is a monster - his tilts kill you way earlier before you can finish him off (his utilt has to be the most overpowered thing I've ever seen...) and his range beat yours...

Make use of Snakes weaknesses and you have decent chances to win here.

Rating:

50:50

The only hitbox that Snake has that's pretty crazy is Uptilt.

I main these two characters, so I have a few things to say.

Snake punishes harder than Wolf, because Ftilt does 21% and comes out in 4 frames.

Wolf punishes more easily than Snake. Fsmash comes out with amazing speed for how much range it has. We will have the frame data shortly.

Snake gets outcamped in this matchup. Blaster can be used more rapidly than Snake's grenades. Snake is gonna be the one to approach.

Snake's most reliable kill move is Uptilt, which is unsafe on block. He has C4 which has about the same KO power as his Uptilt, it's not particularly hard to avoid. His Dtilt has decent range and speed, but the power isn't really extreme and it is punishable. His aerials can kill well, but are less practical because of Snake's lack aerial of mobility. His Upair is pretty quick and **** powerful, and so is his Bair. Other aerials are pretty awkward. And of course, be careful of the Fsmash which is deadly but slow enough to be shielded on reaction.

Snake > Wolf up close. Snakes like to poke with the first hit of jab and Ftilt, they can lead to deadly mixups and provide good shield pressure. His grab game is better than yours. Both characters Dthrows do 12% damage, but Snake's leads into the best techchase in the game. One mistake against Snake up close results in you taking heavy damage or you being KO'd at high percents.

With Snake's safest pokes being first hit of jab and first hit of Ftilt, you should take advantage of the fact that Wolf can punish the rest of Snake's melee attacks on block, with ease, including the last hits of jab and Ftilt. You get free Fsmashes and i'm about 85% sure you can get free Upsmashes (18% damage) on block against certain things, if the Snakes mis-spaces up close.

Wolf's up close mixups and grab game are not on par with Snakes, so imo, you want to play this one at mid range. Space Fairs and Bairs to keep yourself safe. Use blaster shots to disrupt his camping and approach. Punish anything you can on block with Fsmash/Upsmash. Never ever poke with Fsmash, it's too unsafe. Wolf > Snake in the air, take advantage of this with backthrow and on platform stages.

Imo, the most reliable ways to KO Snake is with a fresh Dsmash or fresh Bair while edgeguarding. I don't spam Bair like most Wolf's, so i'm more likely to have a fresh one.

If you're forced into close quarters with Snake, your own jab mixups, grab game, and out-of-shield punishing are not as damaging as his, but still effective. I strongly believe that Wolf is among the best punishers in the game.

I'm not sure what the matchup ratio should be.

This would be even... if snake didn't live up to 180% and couldn't easily kill you at half of that. It's still a very close matchup, utilt and ftilt have nice range, but you can use reflector to counter both, even if its a little bit difficult (for utilt I mean from above). You can reflect usmash, which can be useful sometimes. Dthrow off the stage > spike is probably the best kill method against snakes even though the opportunity doesn't always present itself, but otherwise, SAVE YOUR DSMASH. Do your best to gimp at every opportunity, because you won't want to deal another 80% so that he dies with dsmash.

Meh...

Turbo Ether nailed most of it. His grab game is better than Wolf's. His Ftilt *****, however, his Ftilt IS PUNISHABLE, by say...oh, a Fsmash? But the sheer speed of that... Good God, 4 frames >_< And 21% the first time.

Although, I'd have to say Snake isn't a better poker than Wolf, his Jab range is crap, but if he hits said jab, he gets a free Ftilt, so yeah, watch out for that. And his Ftilt, while having good range, has a lot of lag afterwards, so the only thing he can really follow up with is the second hit of Ftilt... So if he hits your shield with the first hit of Ftilt... your best option is to roll =/

His Aerials are pretty fast... Uair and Bair are pretty solid, watch out for those.

Oh, and DO NOT GET HIT BY HIS NAIR. Unless you like eating 28%.

Eh... I think I'll comment a little bit more later, I'm kinda tired.

Oh, and before I go, you CAN kill Snake at 100%. Fresh Dsmash, get him at the ledge.

I think, getting Snake at the Edge isn't as hard as other chars with good range. Good zoning/spacing + lack of mobility of Snake can keep him at the edge pretty well...

I don't use many Shine counters against him...maybe I should try it a little more

Snake can also SH dair for massive damage, and I saw something on the snake boards about dair>jab. Basically don't get hit by dair unless you like death.

You have a good chance in this match if you just harass him offstage like crazy. Remember that video Teekay posted somewhere about spiking snake not being too reliable? Well, then just bair him to 150. He can't do much about that, honestly...

If you grab Snake out of his up-b and then don't do anything he does not get Cypher back and if he is at the edge he will fall to his death no matter what.

^ He can drop a mine, blow it up and either recover again or just land on the stage

Oh ya, I forgot about that but it is still helpful at high percents when there is a chance his Mine could kill him.

Yeah, if you can't spike him at all, grabbing him can work. It won't happen against a good snake though...

Here's what teh_spamerer had to say about the matchup. He's the 2nd best player in NJ, with M2K being the first.

teh_spamerer said:

Really? LOL, I've never posted in the Wolf boards in my life but yeah, I don't think it's that bad.

Wolf's fsmash can punish Snake if he does both hits of ftilt on shield, Wolf's dsmash is strong at killing so Snake doesn't live to super high %s like he does against other characters, Wolf is heavy so he doesn't die that early from uptilt, some Snake stuff is predictable, uptilt at high % for example, so you can jump into it with shine, spaced bairs are pretty safe, standing laser stops grenade camping/boostsmashes, you can spike him through the cypher, and if you don't kill him at the lowest possible % with dsmash you can call an airdodge then spam grab attacks to regenerate your dsmash since they are soooooo fast.

Click to expand...

I touched on a few of these points earlier in the thread, so yeah, i'm thinking this match up is at least 50/50, or even 55/45 in Wolf's favor if you know how to deal with/shut down his Ftilt.

I know what teh_spamerer thinks about this...I'm not just sure how much of this is 100% true. It does look nice on the paper but you won't call an utlit "predictable" once he hits you with it...

Yeah I learned to never FSmash a Snake. Although a pretty even matchup I am always on my toes when fighting Snake.. I feel like one mistake and it's over.



Edit: Fsmash if he is dumb enough to use his Fsmash. lol

Another good thing about that matchup is Wolf can reflect Snake's projectiles anyway. Plus if you get Snake caught in the air, maybe by using uptilt or usmash, then juggle him with uair, finally finsihing him with bair of fair, there's not much he can do, since Snake's aerials are pretty slow.

i look at this match up even too. its also a fun match up for me. if the wolf player dosnt get annoyed by the ftilts and stays calm he can beat really good a snake. just play calm and punish snkae after he messs up cuz hes slow. id spam the laser and forward samsh after he ftilts. fsmash out of your shiled it always hit. and if the snake starts spamming nades just laser him and when you see him drop it and pick it up shine it back. predic when hes going to throw sine back. as a wolf you need to annoy him. stay calm and focus,. and wolf has a slightly advantage

I think you post too much gheb lol

It should be noted that if you are constantly spacing bairs, Snake players may throw out and AC nair, so keep your eye open, and every now and then empty hop to try to bait it.

Juggle trap him.

snake wolf 50/50??!!!! naw i dont think so...

65-35 in snake's favor

I feel that if the wolf player plays well, the match up is pretty close. It's just hard to be consistent with wolf while it's so easy to be consistent with snake.

I've played some really good snakes and I'd say it's pretty even since I can go pretty even with them. It's all about that spacing, and keep that Dsmash fresh they shouldn't live to the obscene percents some people are claiming. Dacit nades is always fun, just hate the stripping. and about the Nair, has anyone else been able to shine "counter" in the middle of it?

The thing is, if the snake DIs the dsmash, it's next to useless

I've been able to break out with shine before, iirc in between the last two kicks.

The d-smash is your best kill move. It's not useless at all. Just don't spam it at 100%.

This matchup is 55:45 Snake (roughly, I'm willing to lean 50:50 or 60:40 depending on stage and Snake's playstyle. There is really only one way to do this matchup with Snake)


I could sit there and explain myself, or you can take my work and start theorycrafting.

This matchup is all in the spacing and avoiding our explosives. (Like most any match against Snake)

Yeah I'd agree with 55:45 Snake at best.