Match-Up Discussion #9! Bowser

Steel · Aug 26, 2008

Bowser

Go ^_^

Steel · Aug 26, 2008

This isn't a character to be taken lightly. Bowser has THE best grab release in the game. You can't up b out of it once you get released, bowser has the frame advantage once you get out.

~~Bowser outranges you, especially with his ftilt which also has a good amount of speed and power. This is a good character.~~

Now, discuss.

ZHMT · Aug 26, 2008

Hmm...Bowser...

With Bowser the best thing to do is play a safe offense. Bowser's tilts have decent range and his ftilt competes with yours. Bowsers tilts are very strong and can KO you if your not careful. You should safely approach with dtilts and ftilts and punish him with the ever so great Dancing Blade.

If you stay moving and constantly space well, Bowser shouldnt be able to hit you hard enough to KO you often, if at all. If you can, go for some air juggles but don't make yourself obvious because if you happen to get hit with one of Bowsers aerials, its going to hurt.

Be careful not to get hit by Bowsers up smash when landing or air dodging, it is VERY strong for its speed if your opponent decides to charge it.

Another thing is Bowsers Flame Breathing stuff, if he uses it and hit hits you, you can DI out. If it misses, you can wait for it to vanish or him to stop, then punish with Dancing Blade.

Gimping Bowser is fairly easy and he is a large target which can aid in sweetspotted dairs. He is the heaviest character in the game however, so getting him far enough off the stage to fair will take time.

Pierce7d · Aug 26, 2008

Eh, I'm not super experienced on this matchup, I only played 1 good bowser ever (we went even out of 6 matches) and that was a while ago. I will say that instead of DIing out of Flame Breath, I DI through it, toward bowser, and make him eat Dolphin Slash for more damage. Also, I spam a lot of DB and SB vs Bowser, because once his shield is reduced, the down version of Dancing Blade shield stabs, and it's pretty easy to maintain momentum against Bowser when his shield is low.

_Kadaj_ · Aug 26, 2008

Just watch out for his deceptivly quick attacks which include tilts, airs, b moves, and his double koopa grab (sh koopa grab into koopa grab lol) the IASA frames upon landing the 1st one is insanely fast (the 1st grab isn't used to grab intentionally but you can be immediatly koopa grabbed if trying to dodge the 1st one)

VietGeek · Aug 26, 2008

Also, if you don't know, you can influence the "Bowsercide's" trajectory (which means you can ultimately avoid it) by DI-ing when he catches you and attempts the actual...

err...lack of vocabulary...I have a cold...

Err, it's when he spins up and then is about to strike down. <_<

Also, if your tournament uses laggy plasma TVs, use Bowser...

*died because he DS'd the wrong way and lost his $10 at Play N Trade*

/bitterness

Also, play as Controller Port 1, or at least lower than his port. Otherwise he can do win anyway/ISJR stall on the death line respectively.

∫unk · Aug 26, 2008

Steel2nd said:
This isn't a character to be taken lightly.

lolololololololololololol

∫unk · Aug 26, 2008

Seriouslies I haven't played a decent bowser someone put up a vid of a good bowser vs a good marth (if such a thing exists).

ZHMT · Aug 26, 2008

JunkInTheTrunk said:
lolololololololololololol

One mistake in Marths spacing and he can take like 30% with insane knockback. Its prolly still 6-4 Marth, but its not a dead game.

Nibbity · Aug 26, 2008

Who is a good Bowser? I'd like to see a youtube video.

The closest a Bowser has gotten to beating me would Bowserside.

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯ · Aug 26, 2008

I know nothing of this matchup, and my input is that since Bowser is so big, you could tip him rather easily, making it easy to meteor smash him.

Nibbity · Aug 26, 2008

Good point Solid. I'd like to point out, like DDD, he has a big shield, so SB is easier to abuse.

ZHMT · Aug 26, 2008

Remember, like Dedede, your Tipped Nair is a nice KO move on Bowser as well. :laugh:

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯ · Aug 26, 2008

Oh ya, just thought of that as well. SB is definitely good against him. What are good stages against him, I don't really have a clue what screws Bowser up.

Nibbity · Aug 26, 2008

hmmm, IMO....Battlefield. His B up is awful for recovery, and Battlefield is a small enough stage to easily either gimp him or just let him die.

His size also once again hurts him on battlefield, because a good U smash can easily hit him if he is above you, and you can dodge, shield, or counter his slow moving smashes.

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯ · Aug 26, 2008

Ya, and BF is a good Marth stage... sounds good.

ZHMT · Aug 26, 2008

Seige screwes Bowser up because of the terrain he has to overcome and he is so slow. Rainbow cruise possibly?

Frigate may mess him up and put him in a bad position after the stage shifts. Theres a lot ^_^

Anth0ny · Aug 26, 2008

Never played a good Bowser, but I'd assume that short hop nair is very effective, and so is dancing blade.

Nibbity · Aug 26, 2008

Ahhh yeah, Siege. Sometimes that's banned though, right?

Rainbow Cruise is a definite possiblilty, because of how he's so slow, I can picture him trying to keep up with the magic carpet, and failing.

I'm also very confident about this match up because if you focus on spacing, you can stay away from his dreaded grab game, ESPECIALLY with SB.

∫unk · Aug 26, 2008

zelda_master_timmy said:
One mistake in Marths spacing and he can take like 30% with insane knockback. Its prolly still 6-4 Marth, but its not a dead game.

Read carefully, then think about the character, then you'll see what I was loling about.

Steel · Aug 26, 2008

JunkInTheTrunk said:
lolololololololololololol

u c wut i did thar?

Steel · Aug 26, 2008

Battlefield is a CP for bowser if i'm correct. If he uses his forward b he can land on the top platform and send marth off the top at a rather low percentage.

Nibbity · Aug 26, 2008

Steel2nd said:
Battlefield is a CP for bowser if i'm correct. If he uses his forward b he can land on the top platform and send marth off the top at a rather low percentage.

lol, wutz this?

is that true? I wonder what percentage you need to die. But either way, his Over B is unpredictable, and might even miss the platform, unless you can control it, which I don't think you can.

Emblem Lord · Aug 27, 2008

Marth's f-tilt outranges Bowser's.

Just saying.

Pierce7d · Aug 27, 2008

Is it safe on block vs Bowser?

Emblem Lord · Aug 27, 2008

Considering that Bowser is slow I would imagine so.

Steel · Aug 27, 2008

Emblem Lord said:
Marth's f-tilt outranges Bowser's.

Just saying.

I stand corrected.

∫unk · Aug 27, 2008

quick steel play ELs bowser so i can see something i don't care if EL has never played bowser he's probably already figured out his metagame

Emblem Lord · Aug 27, 2008

LMAO!!!!

My Bowser is ok.

Nibbity · Aug 27, 2008

so I saw uh...Sliq's Bowser.

I don't even know what to say.

Bair is obviously a bad idea most of the time during any matchup bowser has when SHing.

Isn't it almost impossible for bowser to also gimp you, seeing as how you could fair him, or dolphin slash? Counter also comes to mind, because if Bowser jumps off, it's gonna be hard for him to get back on. I imagine his air game to be slightly predictable.

ZHMT · Aug 27, 2008

I just got done playing a Bowser, unsure of his overall skill level however. When I rushed right into him I obviously got grabbed for ftilted. I just spaced and camped with dtilts and ftilts, fairs exc.

When he didnt expect me to attack I came in, and mixed up Dancing Blade with grabs.

Basically I camped and attacked randomly, bowser is so slow he will have trouble reacting to random movements.

ZHMT · Aug 27, 2008

JunkInTheTrunk said:
Read carefully, then think about the character, then you'll see what I was loling about.

Yeah I get it now XD. Man im slow... <<

Pierce7d · Aug 27, 2008

Nibbity said:
so I saw uh...Sliq's Bowser.

I don't even know what to say.

Bair is obviously a bad idea most of the time during any matchup bowser has when SHing.

Isn't it almost impossible for bowser to also gimp you, seeing as how you could fair him, or dolphin slash? Counter also comes to mind, because if Bowser jumps off, it's gonna be hard for him to get back on. I imagine his air game to be slightly predictable.

Uh, you'd think that, but if you get hit by an Ftilt, which comes out TOO quick and can be angled, and you've used your second jump already, you're screwed. Remember that Marth's recovery is also not that good, and Marth is easily gimpable.

Emblem Lord · Aug 27, 2008

How the hell could Bowser be in a situation where Marth doesn't have a second jump and he could f-tilt him? He would have to be on the edge of the stage waiting for Marth.

In this case if you jumped right towards the stage where Bowser is waiting you deserved to lose your stock for being so blatantly obvious and foolish with your recovery.

Pierce7d · Aug 27, 2008

Emblem Lord said:
How the hell could Bowser be in a situation where Marth doesn't have a second jump and he could f-tilt him? He would have to be on the edge of the stage waiting for Marth.

In this case if you jumped right towards the stage where Bowser is waiting you deserved to lose your stock for being so blatantly obvious and foolish with your recovery.

Simple, an attempt to ledgehop Fair is beaten by an ftilt. Not a common situation, but it's worth looking out for. Angling that ftilt is VERY GOOD.

And usually, to gimp someone, you'd have to be on the ledge waiting, or chasing them off stage, like how Marth gimps some people with his dtilt. Bowser can do something similar with his dtilt.

Emblem Lord · Aug 27, 2008

Wait...

Why is Marth ledge hop fairing again?

That is like....a terrible option from the ledge.

And how the hell is Marth gimping anyone with a d-tilt unless they overshot the ledge with double jump?

Both situations are too rare to have significant effects on a match-up.

Nibbity · Aug 27, 2008

In my mind, if I saw bowser pretty much waiting, I would just wait a little and dolphin slash pretty much right below the edge to grab it so he couldnt angle his f tilt too low, and then just do an edge dodge, but maybe i'm imagining it wrong. I can see your setup though.

EDIT: Unless the Bowser is smart enough to turn around as you dodge and f tilt then. I don't know for sure.

Pierce7d · Aug 27, 2008

Emblem Lord said:
Wait...

Why is Marth ledge hop fairing again?

That is like....a terrible option from the ledge.

And how the hell is Marth gimping anyone with a d-tilt unless they overshot the ledge with double jump?

Both situations are too rare to have significant effects on a match-up.

Of course, I didn't mean to imply that it changed the match-up. I was simply giving Nibbity examples of how Marth might possibly be gimped.

3xSwords · Aug 27, 2008

Well I'm surprised this hasn't come up yet so let's discuss Bowser's shield options.

Three fastest attacking options for Bowser out of shield would be:

Classic Shield Grab, all characters have this, but be careful because Bowser has a glitchy grab release, however his grab attack is so slow you can avoid a grounded release.

His upB out of shield. This is an amazing option, quick, good damage, and some invincibility frames. Without good spacing this is like an auto hit. With good spacing this gives just enough time to dodge or counter attack with a DS. If you just sit in your shield, you can punish the ending lag. Most Bowser's will try to go as far away from you after the initial hit so chase with DB. (When are Bowser's invincibility frames?)

His other option is jab out of shield:
A slower option, but just b/c of shield drop frames. Bowser's jab is quick and has great reach, so it can punish even good spacing.

A note about dtilt, I think I remember EL saying somewhere that Bowser's jab outreaches Marth's dtilt, because Bowser's body leans forward. But Marth's ftilt outranges pretty much all of Bowser's jabs and tilts, so use more ftilt.

I don't know Bowser that well so I'm sure I missed something. Please just correct me, I just used logic to determine his best shield options.

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯ · Aug 27, 2008

it seems like a short hop retreating fair could screw up bowser if spaced properly.

Match-Up Discussion #9! Bowser

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