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Pokedex Entry 7: Olimar

Steeler

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woooooooooo oli oli olimar oli oli olimar

olimar is a ***** guys, face it. lol.

interestingly enough, most pt's think ivysaur and charizard are somewhere around neutral, and squirtle is disadvantaged.

and olimars think squirtle has an advantage, and ivy/zard are worse off.

interesting.

let's get to the bottom of this!!!

link to post on oli board: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5153514#post5153514
 

Onxy

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As an Olimar main, I would have to say

Squirtle 3:7

Ivy 5:5

Charizard 5:5, or possibly 6:4.

I'll go into detail later in the discussion.
 

Charizard92

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Well, let's remember the basics.

1: Olimar relies on Pikmin, so the more he has, the more powerful he becomes, so don't give him time.
2: Pikmin are on their own for a few seconds before becoming a part of Olimar's team, and thus mostly invulnerable, so if he get's Pikmin, hit them.
3: Olimar's recovery is on par with Ivysaur's with 6 pikmin, or generally horrid. Gimp like you never gimped before (and no "I haven't ever gimped before" jokes, that is what Squirtle is supposed to do)


Squirtle: Squirtle can get to Olimar fast and put pressure on him, but once the Pikmin are out, they stay until Olimar gets KOed. just remember that. Gimping should be easy here.
Ivysaur: Vine whip does surprisingly well with gimping other tethers, but outside that there is not much in Ivysaur's favor.
Charizard: everything Olimar hates in a simple package in the form of an orange mini-dragon. Charizard, as we all know, can always apply pressure, which is bad. Apparently, there is a technique with Flamethrower to fry 4 out of 5 pikmin types (still haven't done this though, so I can't prove it), which helps. Oh, and Charizard can gimp too.

I think that's 6 cent's. You can keep the change.
 

DanGR

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Where should I start? I've played against Chad and Joot, two beast PT users of the southeast, and some scrubs. Not too many matches, but enough to get the general idea of how the match goes.

Charizard-40/60 Olimar
Here's my reasoning. Charizard is pretty fun to combo. I'm talking 0-60% easily, even with good DI. This is b/c he doesn't have any really quick aerial options(fast as shiek's maybe?) to impede on Olimar's racking. Dair and fair are too slow. Nair is much too laggy. Charizard doesn't really have a big problem approaching b/c fire and rocksmash make some reliable approaches. It does get rather predicable though. And a roll behind you can stop ya. Killing isn't a big problem for Olimar either.

Charizard does kill rather low though, and has an easier time edgeguarding than the other pokemon imo. He's got impressive speed on the ground, so he can sort of keep up with Olimar unlike the other larger characters. This is why it's only 60/40 and not 65 or 70. He's probably our toughest big opponent.(tieing with Snake)

Ivysaur-40/60 Olimar

There's not too much to talk about for this matchup. It's a battle of range and spacing for both characters. And sadly for ivysaur, Olimar has better range. Ivysaur can compete though-similiar to the way R.O.B. can. Even with razor leaf, Olimar outcamps ivy, so ivy has to approach. Some people may disagree with me though, but I'm positive Olimar's pikmin can outcamp the leaves. He's got enough options on the offensive to keep olimar guessing though. Olimar kills better and they are somewhat tied for racking. (bullet seed is boss)

Squirtle- 40/60 maybe 35/65 Squirtle*

This is the most debatable pokemon for the Olimar v PT matchup. He's got the maneuverability to swim through Olimar's deep defense, making him hard to keep up with. He's got some good racking options, killing options, and can handle most everything in Olimar's arsenal. He's got to change his style some though to compensate for Olimar's defensive game. He has to stay in the air and be off the ground for most of the fight.

*-Personally, I usually kill him too quickly to judge how bad the matchup is for Olimar. >_>
 

Onxy

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Ivy approaching from the air is very annoying for Olimar; from my experience. The Razor Leaf chops through Pikmin, and keeps going. Ivy's tilts are very annoying, they are quick, a lot of range, and chops through Pikmin (Filt).

Don't have too much reason to think that Charizard has an advantage or not, but I think it's neutral from my experience.
 

Retro Gaming

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First thing: I don't understand exactly what Squirtle shuts down about Olimar except for like no Pikmin camping. (Which honestly, all of the Pokemon do well enough of, already) I'm strongly skeptical of your analysis already because you said Squirtle has "Good killing options," especially when one requires you to grab a character with superior range in every possible way.

Ivysaur doesn't need to try to out-camp the Pikmin with Razor Leaf, though. I have enough success keeping them off (and basically approaching) with Ftilt. Razor Leaf goes through Pikmin, so Olimar has to slow down the Pikmin throwing or Razor Leaf takes out multiple Pikmin. Bair similarly swats off and approaches with the range. Olimar can kill early with those Red Pikmin, which always makes me rage. I always feel more susceptible in the air with Ivysaur than with Charizard, to be honest.

I 'dunknow, I still feel Charizard does best. I don't know about these 0-60%'s, but I really haven't seen them. I'll just bring up: Can Charizard not just jump out? (Multiple jumps?) Really not sure, here.

Rock Smash totally destroys Pikmin. Sometimes I just let a spammy Olimar get a few on so that I can them all at one time. Even decayed, Rock Smash slays the Pikmin. Olimar can't grab you out of a Flamethrower approach if you space moderately well with a full flame, not that any Pikmin but red can get through, anyway.

I see Charizard doing well in edgeguarding Olimar. Now, I understand that Olimar does well enough using his whistle armor and such, but Charizard's got multiple jumps that lets you bait or just wait it out and then hit him. Bair sweetspot has a good bit of range, and if Olimar is forced to use his tether then Flamethrower can play funny with him.

Olimar is one of those characters that Charizard has an easy time chain ground releasing a few times. Funny stuff, just mentioning it here. He can roll away but that doesn't get him anywhere, and it can be predicted and punished. The jabs are shield-grabable, as well.

I 'dunknow. Need to have a more recent-er match with an Olimar.
 

Onxy

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First thing: I don't understand exactly what Squirtle shuts down about Olimar except for like no Pikmin camping. (Which honestly, all of the Pokemon do well enough of, already) I'm strongly skeptical of your analysis already because you said Squirtle has "Good killing options," especially when one requires you to grab a character with superior range in every possible way.

Ivysaur doesn't need to try to out-camp the Pikmin with Razor Leaf, though. I have enough success keeping them off (and basically approaching) with Ftilt. Razor Leaf goes through Pikmin, so Olimar has to slow down the Pikmin throwing or Razor Leaf takes out multiple Pikmin. Bair similarly swats off and approaches with the range. Olimar can kill early with those Red Pikmin, which always makes me rage. I always feel more susceptible in the air with Ivysaur than with Charizard, to be honest.

I 'dunknow, I still feel Charizard does best. I don't know about these 0-60%'s, but I really haven't seen them. I'll just bring up: Can Charizard not just jump out? (Multiple jumps?) Really not sure, here.

Rock Smash totally destroys Pikmin. Sometimes I just let a spammy Olimar get a few on so that I can them all at one time. Even decayed, Rock Smash slays the Pikmin. Olimar can't grab you out of a Flamethrower approach if you space moderately well with a full flame, not that any Pikmin but red can get through, anyway.

I see Charizard doing well in edgeguarding Olimar. Now, I understand that Olimar does well enough using his whistle armor and such, but Charizard's got multiple jumps that lets you bait or just wait it out and then hit him. Bair sweetspot has a good bit of range, and if Olimar is forced to use his tether then Flamethrower can play funny with him.

Olimar is one of those characters that Charizard has an easy time chain ground releasing a few times. Funny stuff, just mentioning it here. He can roll away but that doesn't get him anywhere, and it can be predicted and punished. The jabs are shield-grabable, as well.

I 'dunknow. Need to have a more recent-er match with an Olimar.
Pikmin never get hurt when they go for a grab.

Hey Retro, I play an Olimar, want to play me? You're probably better than me, but I still want to play.
 

Pokerface

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I have more trouble with Ivysaur tbh.

Charizard is a peice of cake for me.

But it might just be me that has trouble with ivysaur i dunno.
 

Onxy

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I think Charizard does have a neutral with Olimar, or maybe a 4.5/5.5, but you have to know WHY Charizard has an advantage against Olimar, or else the user will fail.

Off topic: Why in the world does Yoshi have an advantage against Olimar? What can he do that is so great against him?
 

Retro Gaming

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They just walk through the fire? I honestly don't remember that happening. What I was aiming more at saying was that "Flamethrower is longer than Olimar's grab range (when full)."

I won't be on my Wii for a week yet. D=
 

Onxy

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Well, you said that only red can go through, as in the others get killed; which they don't.
 

Retro Gaming

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I thought they took a hit and then went back to Olimar? (Non-Reds) I don't think I've ever killed with Flamethrower (well, not grabbing Pikmin).
 

Onxy

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Nah, 'cause if that happend, that means everyone would be able to jab his Pikmin grab; yeah.... Olimar would suck bad if that were true.
 

PkTrainerCris

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Most olimar mains tihnk squirtle has good time killing them because olimars weaknesses are easily exploited by the lil ninja turtle, hes sneaky and agile so he can go thought olimars defense, which almost anyone else can do(maybe they can, but not squirtles way), and squirtle can edgeguard him pretty well with aerials waiting him until hes close enough and then flow up with dair/uair/fair ****, so the olimar does feel on an disadvantage, i wolud say it is 65-35 for squirtle, because squirtle is light and that dsmash hurts a lot, and olimar has some good aerial options to compete if the squirtle player makes a single mistake
Ivysaur gets outcamped, but he can stay on a safe area for pikmin throw and kill pikmins and hurt olimar, all that with good spacing, but the olimars fsmash and smash can punish you if you get too predictable with it, the fairs range and power can hurt olimar a lot, but ivy should be on the air very much, surprisingly its a good otion for aproaching, but if olimar stays an aerial assault you are in trouble,by the way, does ivysaur has the fire weakness with the red pikmin?? im not sure on this one
 

PkTrainerCris

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Pikmin are invulnerable just when they go for a grab, but when are thrown by pikmin throw(LOL... who didnt see that coming) they are destroyed (or go runing back to oli) by flamethower, when a Fsmashed or Dsmashed thrown pikmin (not red) gets into the flame depends on the pikmin health, flamethrower's time since it was released, and flamethrowe's aiming... the pikmin may get hit and go back to olimar,die, or hit charizard(can happen sometines, and it sucks) But just a very confident charizard player would let the flamethrower out enough time to get grabbed
 

Charizard92

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Did any of you guys pay attention to me anymore? I've pretty much explained how Squirtle does well (keeps Olimar from getting Pikmin, and gimp), along with Ivysaur (thether gimp) and Charizard (pressure, destroy pikmin, and gimp!). Oh, by the way, I was on Vacation and away from my computer, and had only access to my sisters, who would be pissed.
 

Onxy

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Lol at Charizard.

Do you have Wi-fi? I want to play you.. Lol.

I'm going to read your post, again, lol.
 

Retro Gaming

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Except that Squirtle's game game versus Olimar is made difficult since Olimar can whistle armour through your attempt, which will force you to go back to the ledge or risk certain death.

Actually, now that I think about it, Squirtle's Dair > Whistle armour.
 

Charizard92

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@Onxy: sorry, no, but if I did face you, I doubt I'll win. I sucked at a melee tournament at my School (Excuses include "I used Pichu", "I was never a hard core Melee pro", "I've been playing Brawl", and " In melee I relied on beating lvl 1 cpus"). Current excuses are "I've haven't been playing Brawl much anymore" and "I have to train with lvl 3 cpus" (I lack wifi, and I don't face humans often (and the ones I do face typically are noobs, so I have to go with cpus, and I doubt my skill against the high level ones).

@Retro Gaming: Can't you just pressure Olimar with high flying attacks and with all of Charizard's offensive potential? with Olimar's reliance on Pikmin, it makes sense.
 

Knyaguy

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@Onxy: sorry, no, but if I did face you, I doubt I'll win. I sucked at a melee tournament at my School (Excuses include "I used Pichu", "I was never a hard core Melee pro", "I've been playing Brawl", and " In melee I relied on beating lvl 1 cpus"). Current excuses are "I've haven't been playing Brawl much anymore" and "I have to train with lvl 3 cpus" (I lack wifi, and I don't face humans often (and the ones I do face typically are noobs, so I have to go with cpus, and I doubt my skill against the high level ones).
As for CPU's im not very good and I use lvl 7's. I used to battle lvl 1's in melee until I joined the boards. As for Olimar, does squirtle f-air prioritize olimars f-air?
 

DanGR

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It's not a matter of priority. Aerial priority doesn't exist. That's only for grounded attacks.

I think Olimar's fair comes out a liiiiiil slower than squirtle's fair.
Olimar's fair is disjointed, and squirtle's isn't.
If they come out at the same time, and squirtle is within range of Olimar, he'll beat him out.

Olimar's pikmin attacks have no priority really. They're just very quick. It's an illusion. They have hurtboxes, and they're always killed when an attacks hit them. This is why MK's jab kills pikmin.
 

Charizard92

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I know that cpus suck. But without any way to train myself with humans, it's all I got. Oh, and By the way, apparently the number does not translate to difficulty. One of my non noob friends (who i don't really see anymore) says he beat 3 lvl 9 cpus without losing a life, and then lost (or was it get KOed) by a lvl 1 cpu, cosmic isn't it?
 

Onxy

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@Dan: Olimar's Pikmin aerials are treated as projectiles, so they will clank. Squirtle has disjointed hitboxes for his aerials too.
 

Knyaguy

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It's not a matter of priority. Aerial priority doesn't exist. That's only for grounded attacks.

I think Olimar's fair comes out a liiiiiil slower than squirtle's fair.
Olimar's fair is disjointed, and squirtle's isn't.
If they come out at the same time, and squirtle is within range of Olimar, he'll beat him out.

Olimar's pikmin attacks have no priority really. They're just very quick. It's an illusion. They have hurtboxes, and they're always killed when an attacks hit them. This is why MK's jab kills pikmin.
Thanks for clearing that up, the blue pikmin are more duriable so how many hits can he take?
 

DanGR

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@Dan: Olimar's Pikmin aerials are treated as projectiles, so they will clank. Squirtle has disjointed hitboxes for his aerials too.
squirtle's aerials are disjointed? who woulda thought.

Thanks for clearing that up, the blue pikmin are more duriable so how many hits can he take?
Pikmin aren't more durable than other pikmin when they're used in an attack. If they're walking back to you after you threw them, they are. I think purples will survive zelda's dtilt whereas whites will die. I think that's what you're referencing.
 

Hydde

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Except that Squirtle's game game versus Olimar is made difficult since Olimar can whistle armour through your attempt, which will force you to go back to the ledge or risk certain death.

Actually, now that I think about it, Squirtle's Dair > Whistle armour.

hey retro get wifi on!!, im on right now..

sorry i was alittle offtopic :p
 

Onxy

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squirtle's aerials are disjointed? who woulda thought.


Pikmin aren't more durable than other pikmin when they're used in an attack. If they're walking back to you after you threw them, they are. I think purples will survive zelda's dtilt whereas whites will die. I think that's what you're referencing.

Did you read my other part of the post? The part where I say that Olimar's Pikmin attacks are treated as projectiles, even his aerials.
 

Fearmy

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Where should I start? I've played against Chad and Joot, two beast PT users of the southeast, and some scrubs. Not too many matches, but enough to get the general idea of how the match goes.

Charizard-40/60 Olimar
Here's my reasoning. Charizard is pretty fun to combo. I'm talking 0-60% easily, even with good DI. This is b/c he doesn't have any really quick aerial options(fast as shiek's maybe?) to impede on Olimar's racking. Dair and fair are too slow. Nair is much too laggy. Charizard doesn't really have a big problem approaching b/c fire and rocksmash make some reliable approaches. It does get rather predicable though. And a roll behind you can stop ya. Killing isn't a big problem for Olimar either.

Charizard does kill rather low though, and has an easier time edgeguarding than the other pokemon imo. He's got impressive speed on the ground, so he can sort of keep up with Olimar unlike the other larger characters. This is why it's only 60/40 and not 65 or 70. He's probably our toughest big opponent.(tieing with Snake)

Ivysaur-40/60 Olimar

There's not too much to talk about for this matchup. It's a battle of range and spacing for both characters. And sadly for ivysaur, Olimar has better range. Ivysaur can compete though-similiar to the way R.O.B. can. Even with razor leaf, Olimar outcamps ivy, so ivy has to approach. Some people may disagree with me though, but I'm positive Olimar's pikmin can outcamp the leaves. He's got enough options on the offensive to keep olimar guessing though. Olimar kills better and they are somewhat tied for racking. (bullet seed is boss)

Squirtle- 40/60 maybe 35/65 Squirtle*

This is the most debatable pokemon for the Olimar v PT matchup. He's got the maneuverability to swim through Olimar's deep defense, making him hard to keep up with. He's got some good racking options, killing options, and can handle most everything in Olimar's arsenal. He's got to change his style some though to compensate for Olimar's defensive game. He has to stay in the air and be off the ground for most of the fight.

*-Personally, I usually kill him too quickly to judge how bad the matchup is for Olimar. >_>
Agree With Zard

With ivysaur, Try approaching with Razor Leaf. Do a SH while Di'ing to Olimar, Razor Leaf Cut's through the Pikmin, and will actually Slow them down, you won't be getting hit often. This actually isn't too hard of a match up as long as you DI smart, and Airdodge well. Basically Olimar will Grab a lot, Stay in the air when he does that and use either B-air or F-air. When He does his Fair, You can Counter that with a Razor Leaf. Honestly Use razor leaf more agressive, it's a free Hit and can actually Help in the combing. But What Really Hurts Ivysaur is the Dair and Air Moves. Dair Out ranges Ivysaur Completely, and Unless you Power Shield it or Dodge it in a way, ivysaur is going to get sent back, and either the olimar goes back to camping or is going to try to hit you with his Air Attacks. One hit from a Bair or Fair and you are gone, because he will UP B the ledge, so there is no Hope for you at all pretty much :dizzy:

Squirtle ummm Let's see, Olimar Grabs a lot, and if he does, he can't do that massive Combo (it's like Fthrow Fsmash dthrow to Up Smash) On squirtle due to him being light, so that is a big Plus. Squirtle's Dair cut's through Olimars Whistle (I THINK) and his U air. Squirtle CAN have a tough time approaching, But since they are using their Side B, Just Water Gun them off the stage, that'll stop them from Using Side B. Squirtle Honestley Wins in the air, but gets murder on the ground.

I say 50/50 Ivysaur 45/55 Squirtle
 

Steeler

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squirtle's dair can also go through olimar's usmash. i think it can go through any pikmin attack, it's just not usually feasible (fsmash, fair and bair probably). it THINK can work if olimar wants to chase you with his uair though...just not sure about how squirt's dair will react to oli's disjointed hitbox...and not sure which attack will lasts longer.

if squirtle does have a disjointed hitbox on aerials, then it's a really small one lol. i think dair's last hit has a kind of box that goes around squirtle's tail and body, and squirtle's tail on his bair MIGHT count as a disjointed hitbox (ie hit the tail and nothing happens). but this is just speculation.

OH and yeah nair does have a nice disjointed hitbox. :] nair really comes in handy against olimar...it just doesn't do much knockback, even when it first comes out.
 

Trip.

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Squirts Nair > Olimar.

Ok not really, but it is a really key part of the match up.

Shakes off Pimkin and the Disjointed Hit box helps.
 

DanGR

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Did you read my other part of the post? The part where I say that Olimar's Pikmin attacks are treated as projectiles, even his aerials.
Like seriously? So sometimes a purple pikmin in a fair will go through an attack that a white won't??? Olimar is still so confusing even after the months I've been playing him. :dizzy:
 

PkTrainerCris

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PT and olimar ae both very confusing characters, because with PT you will have to learn and use efectively threemovesets, and with olimar a lot of attacks have different properties depending on the used pikmin, but all we will agree that the reward is worth it.
Back to the topic, charizard does have some trouble against olimar when the olimar is agresive, i mean, charizard can take out easily a defensive olimar with all his power/gimping/pressure; but the dragon has some trouble against an agressive olimar once hes in the air, and olimar can do it quite easily with his grab game in general (grab range, grab "priority, Uthrow t force an aerial fight and Dthow with combo potential), really, olimar kill charizard pretty easy at the top of the scren with Uair.... Of coure a very good charizard player may overcome that by spacing or very good defensive game, but if you make a mistake olimar can punish you hard
Discuss about this.......
 

Hydde

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PT and olimar ae both very confusing characters, because with PT you will have to learn and use efectively threemovesets, and with olimar a lot of attacks have different properties depending on the used pikmin, but all we will agree that the reward is worth it.
Back to the topic, charizard does have some trouble against olimar when the olimar is agresive, i mean, charizard can take out easily a defensive olimar with all his power/gimping/pressure; but the dragon has some trouble against an agressive olimar once hes in the air, and olimar can do it quite easily with his grab game in general (grab range, grab "priority, Uthrow t force an aerial fight and Dthow with combo potential), really, olimar kill charizard pretty easy at the top of the scren with Uair.... Of coure a very good charizard player may overcome that by spacing or very good defensive game, but if you make a mistake olimar can punish you hard
Discuss about this.......
Agree. 10 char
 

Bomber7

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I'm sure this has already been said but my best anti Olimar move is Bullet see and Flame thrower, it usually helps in getting rid of the pikmen. Also if you have good reflexes, when he throws picmen at you, rocksmsh can kill them and then follow up with your A combo. Ivy is a bit weaker to Olimar due to his openness. Squirtle doesnt have much of a problem.
 

Fearmy

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Squirtle actually does have a problem, Olimar will Grab you and throw you off the edge, and when you are recovering, he will use F-smash to Send his Pikmin to Gimp your Recovery. This hurts sqiurtle a bit, but not soo much. Charizard >>>>>> Olimar i swear, i was just playing a godly olimar and I Rapped his Olimar really hard. One rock Smash and a F-throw and Olimar was Dead, because i happened to kill every single PIkmin with the Rock Smash.
 

Excellence

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Squirtle actually does have a problem, Olimar will Grab you and throw you off the edge, and when you are recovering, he will use F-smash to Send his Pikmin to Gimp your Recovery. This hurts sqiurtle a bit, but not soo much. Charizard >>>>>> Olimar i swear, i was just playing a godly olimar and I Rapped his Olimar really hard. One rock Smash and a F-throw and Olimar was Dead, because i happened to kill every single PIkmin with the Rock Smash.
I'm going to aknowledge that fact that you don't know what you're talking about, or you're playing an Olimar who has just located the Z button. *cough* Or extremely good *cough* I think I can disprove this for you first hand.

My opinion

Olimar v Squirtle: 55/45
Right off the bat we can eliminate Squirtle's ground game because of Olimar's near impervous grab game, that leaves Squirtle to shift through it's aerial options. You guys have a point that Squirtle can shake off Pikmin using his Nair, but any Olimar can tell you spending time destroying Pikmin is going to get you punished or killed. Squirtles got Bair and Dair, which don't seem all that tough to beat. I'm taking a guess at this, but because Olimar's Uair isn't attached to his body, I'm pretty sure it can go through Squirtle's Dair, Bair for sure. Squirtle has two jumps like most normal characters which means ledgeguarding isn't going to come too easily for him. He's got one,maybe two chances to hit Olimar with Bair before he has to retreat for the ledge himself and let's face it, Squirtles recovery isn't too great. The reason I say 55/45 is because if Squirtle does manage to get Olimar off the ground, the match can become very difficult because of Squirtle's speed. It will allow him to keep the pressure on Olimar and increase the probability of mistakes from even the best Olimars.

Olimar v Ivysaur: 60/40
If an Olimar is able to camp then he'll probably do it. Ivysaur's Razor Leaf cuts Pikmin in half, but Pikmin spam is much faster and have you looked at their damage? Ivysaur will go from 0% to 70%+ in a little under ten seconds if he doesn't remove the Pikmin. Ivysaur has to approach if she wants to have any chance to win and because of that she puts herself at risk. Overall, there aren't too many safe options for Ivysaur, but she can't be counted out. If Bullet Seed can land a hit, then Olimar's damage is going up making it vulnerable to Charizard. Bair and it's other offensive options can prove trouble for Olimar, but other than that there doesn't seem like much it can do.

Olimar v Charizard: 50/50
From what I learned about PT, thus far, Charizard should not be out until later on. The argument that Olimar is going to skyrocket his damage then KO him in such an effortless manner as a F/Usmash is wrong. When Charizard does come out, it'll be only vunerable to shorter combos like D/Uthrow into Uair, but that's about it. Charizard's Flamethrower can be angled and when used defensively it can stop Olimar from approaching and give Charizard a moment to calculate it's own counter measure. Rocksmash is going to decimate Pikmin, though they can always be plucked again, and deals tremendous damage. Off edge, Charizard can easily gimp Olimar because of his triple jump and aerials. Yes, Olimar has the Whistle, but with three jumps Olimar can hang out before having to grab the ledge again. Because of his power, combos like jab-jab-grab can easily put Olimar into the KO percentages, which makes it a bit difficult to hold an offensive against charizard. Despite all of this, we have to look at Charizard's dimensions and realize he's a really big target. Even though he's got a lot going for him against Olimar, there is still Pikmin spam, an impressive grab, faster aerials, and plenty of KO options for Olimar.
 

Retro Gaming

Black and White Thinking
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
1,088
Location
Iowa City, IA
Excellence, I just want to touch up on Squirtle right now. For some reason, I find Squirtle's Dair clanking with Olimar's Uair and Usmash, and then continuing the attack and still hitting Olimar. As I've said, Dair > Bair for edgeguarding Olimar since it isn't really detered by the whistle.

I changed my mind, though. =s

Ivysaur's approach on Olimar is going to probably be something like this. If Olimar is spamming those little PikPik's, then Ivysaur's going to approach by walking and Ftiling the Pikmin as they come it keeps them off and has large reach. I'm assuming Olimar's response for this is going to be a grab, but honestly Ivysaur should be trying to bait that as he approaches, and then get in a short-hop'd lagless Fair on Olimar. Razor Leaf to grab works surprisingly well on most characters, but Olimar's got a big grab range and I can't conciously recommend it.

I agree with your Charizard, at the very least, though you didn't mention grabs so much. I mean honestly, Charizard is using them a lot. Pretty similarly to Olimar.
 

Fearmy

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
563
xD lol sorry about that, i was kinda bored about the Zard >>>>>>> Olimar :3 didn't know what i was thinking but what i meant to say is that the olimar i played always would do Fsmash at the edge so his pikmin willl fall off the stage, and the result of it hitting you will be like a Spring :(

oh and btw Dair does cut through Olimars Uair i haven't tried it with a fat pikmin yet though :/

and if the olimar is camping, ivysaur can approach with Razor Leaf if you want

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joHLaEq1SPo

go to about 00:30 *btw this is a VERY old play style for me, i am about even with this olimar now, yet he still does that combo to me -_-*
 

Excellence

Smash Champion
Joined
May 19, 2008
Messages
2,137
Location
The Legion of Doom Headquarters
Excellence, I just want to touch up on Squirtle right now. For some reason, I find Squirtle's Dair clanking with Olimar's Uair and Usmash, and then continuing the attack and still hitting Olimar. As I've said, Dair > Bair for edgeguarding Olimar since it isn't really detered by the whistle.

I changed my mind, though. =s
I think it goes through when the two hit directly, but because I sometimes hit from the side with Uair and Usmash, it wins over Squirtle - that's just a guess at it. If Squirtle can consistently get Olimar off the ground and over the ledge, then I think Squirtle may have something in his favor, but as discussed ealier I don't think that's going to be the case.

I'm wondering if Olimar can smack Squirtle with Fair while trying to come back?

Ivysaur's approach on Olimar is going to probably be something like this. If Olimar is spamming those little PikPik's, then Ivysaur's going to approach by walking and Ftiling the Pikmin as they come it keeps them off and has large reach. I'm assuming Olimar's response for this is going to be a grab, but honestly Ivysaur should be trying to bait that as he approaches, and then get in a short-hop'd lagless Fair on Olimar. Razor Leaf to grab works surprisingly well on most characters, but Olimar's got a big grab range and I can't conciously recommend it.
A lot of Olimars short hop Pikmin and immediately launch an Fair, fast fall and use Fsmash or a grab variant. I would think that would stop that seeing as the Pikmin would stop Ivysaurs Ftilt animation when they're hit.

I agree with your Charizard, at the very least, though you didn't mention grabs so much. I mean honestly, Charizard is using them a lot. Pretty similarly to Olimar.
I don't trust Charizard getting in too many grabs, because he's got to get in close and be on the ground in range for Olimar's own grabs.

xD lol sorry about that, i was kinda bored about the Zard >>>>>>> Olimar :3 didn't know what i was thinking but what i meant to say is that the olimar i played always would do Fsmash at the edge so his pikmin willl fall off the stage, and the result of it hitting you will be like a Spring :(

oh and btw Dair does cut through Olimars Uair i haven't tried it with a fat pikmin yet though :/

and if the olimar is camping, ivysaur can approach with Razor Leaf if you want

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joHLaEq1SPo

go to about 00:30 *btw this is a VERY old play style for me, i am about even with this olimar now, yet he still does that combo to me -_-*
Go Zori! Are you using Dair before or after Olimar uses UAir?
 
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