~ Wolf's Match-Up's ~

castorpollux · Nov 13, 2008

What move does bowser hit you with that actually kills before 100%?

If it's f-smash, you seriously should never get hit by that move

~ Gheb ~ · Nov 13, 2008

Fsmash is a tricky move don't be a fool. Bowser does that weird move that can make a lot of attacks miss. Either way, there are lot of moves that are deadly under 100% : A dtilt at the edge completely screws you, uair and usmash are lethal - he can use uair to force an airdodge and then punish with usmash, he can Bowsercide for KOs at 0% (if you're dumb) and his bair = pwnage

Sesshomuronay · Nov 13, 2008

Bowsers U-tilt and up air kill pretty low. Plus bowser can shieldgrab like everything.

You said we can shine everything he does? Thats ******** he can shield grab shine, block and punish the lag with a tilt or fortress right after it. Plus bowsers AA combo beats a lot of stuff we got.

I think this matchup is like 50:50.

Popertop · Nov 13, 2008

he can also fortress out of shield at like 150 for the kill if he doesn't spam it.

PKNintendo · Nov 13, 2008

snadmonkey said:
I greatly disagree with several of these match-ups. For instance wolf > ROb and Wolf = GW, if not wolf > GW. I also feel wolf> pikachu, outside of his cg, pikachu should struggle greatly to ko wolf, since u can smash di downsmash and reflect thunder. I also believe wolf > both zelda and sheik, regardless of ftilt lock. Also wolf > than bowser easily, you've been filling ur head other wise is silly or really loves bowser. Also wolf > peach, she can't air dodge while floating and you can abuse this plus her low jump to no end with wolfs great shop game. Also wolf > ness, come on grab release ness to fsmash and downsmash all game, let me know how ness goes even with wolf. Also wolf > PT, really neutrl come on, only tough char is charizard cause of his ranged tilts. Wolf >Dk ez to spike and you can jump circles around him, bair and fair ****.

On other hand, i find kirby to have a slight advantage, maybe still in neutral range. Huge chaingrabs and the ever troublesome swallow. I also think DDD is more like 20:80 he is serisouly biggest crink in wolf's armor. I also give advantage to wario, the huge combo's he can do, and fact so many different kinds, make him major trouble, like down air to chomp to boosted upsmash to tech chase, ugh. Not to mention that wario is incredible in the air with his really short airdodge and quick air attacks.

Anyways my opinion, I don't really frequent the boards much anymore and I don't care if you think i'm a nub or whatever. The old timers know better, and I just felt like leaving some feedback on this thread tonight. Take it whatever way you want.

Cause grab releases really give characters advantage amirite? Play a good Ness, and you'll see that grab release's aren't everything. I think 45-55 is justified.

castorpollux · Nov 13, 2008

Gheb_01 said:
Fsmash is a tricky move don't be a fool. Bowser does that weird move that can make a lot of attacks miss. Either way, there are lot of moves that are deadly under 100% : A dtilt at the edge completely screws you, uair and usmash are lethal - he can use uair to force an airdodge and then punish with usmash, he can Bowsercide for KOs at 0% (if you're dumb) and his bair = pwnage

Bowsercide works on stupid people so don't even take that into account in these match-up threads. F-smash may be tricky at first, but eventually people will get used to it's animation.. kinda like how people get used to wolf's f-smash. A d-tilt is good but it wont kill u under 100%. Also, why would I airdodge his u-air if I can just shine it. His bair doesn't kill either.

Sessh., can bowser shield while he's starting his f-smash? Also, always combine your shine with a jump. You can jump + shine at the same exact time which works wonders against big characters such as bowser. Also, it will never get shield grabbed.

Oh and fortressing out of a shield is pretty easy to see. I mean seriously... I'm not gonna let him stall&fall me like that

Sesshomuronay · Nov 13, 2008

Bowser can shield while F-smashing?

~ Gheb ~ · Nov 17, 2008

I changed the DDD match-up to 80:20 D3s favour. The new CG makes it really harder than Falco

:034: · Nov 17, 2008

Wtf, new CG? Tell me about this.

~ Gheb ~ · Nov 17, 2008

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=205582

ShadowX718 · Nov 17, 2008

Thanks for this.
I just started Wolf today and two stocked my brother's Ike 3/6 times.
Never relized how fun and cool Wolf is...

CBK · Nov 20, 2008

This is not right, Falco isn't a 25/75 and Dedede isn't a 80/20. All Dedede has on wolf is chain grabs. Do you guys even watch pro players? Let's take this example of Jem vs Lucian. Granted, Lucian is one of (if not the) best Wolf. Jem isn't a bad Falco at all. The match is way more even than a 25/75. This is just one example. I just don't see what Falco has that kicks wolfs butt. Same with Dedede. 80/20 should be someone like Samus, in which there is a standing infinite. Wolf doesn't even come close to that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62g82Ch2mgY

PS 50/50 Snake? Really? REALLY?!

Sesshomuronay · Nov 20, 2008

DeDeDe has an infinate on wolf which was discovered recently. Falco has a 0-death chaingrab combo on wolf.

Snake goes pretty even with wolf.

Ishiey · Nov 20, 2008

Yes, really. DeDeDe and Falco are probably wolf's two worst matchups if you ask me, but I've never played a great Falco (yet). Snake and Wolf are just about even, depending on who you talk to.

CBK · Nov 20, 2008

Sesshomuronay said:
DeDeDe has an infinate on wolf which was discovered recently. Falco has a 0-death chaingrab combo on wolf.

Snake goes pretty even with wolf.

Can you link me to this infinite chain grab?

The 0-death chain grab is the 0-40% D-throw to spike right? Wolf can recover out of that.

Sesshomuronay · Nov 20, 2008

CBK said:
Can you link me to this infinite chain grab?

The 0-death chain grab is the 0-40% D-throw to spike right? Wolf can recover out of that.

If he lodgehogs right im pretty sure he can make it so you die.

Also the DDD infinate thing is like on the first page but I'll give you a link anyways: here

CBK · Nov 20, 2008

Sesshomuronay said:
If he lodgehogs right im pretty sure he can make it so you die.

Can't this not be done if the wolf is at greater than 40% damage? It also can't be done while on a platform.

Sesshomuronay said:
Also the DDD infinate thing is like on the first page but I'll give you a link anyways: here

That isn't an infinite. It is just a better spaced chain grab.

Sesshomuronay · Nov 20, 2008

CBK said:
Can't this not be done if the wolf is at greater than 40% damage? It also can't be done while on a platform.

That isn't an infinite. It is just a better spaced chain grab.

Apparantly if DDD times it right he can infinate you on the edge or so I've heard.

It is true tho that falcos chaingrab cant be done if your above 40 or on a platform but if its like final destination and your grabbed at like 10% your pretty screwed.

~ Gheb ~ · Nov 21, 2008

1.) Falco can 0 death you. He CGs you to the ledge, spikes you and edehogs you. Wolf can't do anything against it.

2.) DDD can CG him with the "new" CG straight to the ledge and infinite him there.

CBK · Nov 21, 2008

Gheb_01 said:
1.) Falco can 0 death you. He CGs you to the ledge, spikes you and edehogs you. Wolf can't do anything against it.

The Falco isn't going to edge hog correctly every time. You can still UP+B and steal the ledge since infinite frames don't last that long.

Here is a vid a great Falco players. @1:52 the edgegard was foiled. You can't just say that the wolf can't do anything about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9xjyoTSF6Q&feature=related

Gheb_01 said:
2.) DDD can CG him with the "new" CG straight to the ledge and infinite him there.

What Infinite? Please stop calling it that.

Fugu15 · Nov 21, 2008

Don't argue with gheb, a good falco will edgehog correctly every single time with a speed hug or if they go off stage and come back to ledge with their side b right before you. You can safely say that wolf cannot do anything about it.

The spot in the video that you showed looks like sethlon let go of the ledge for a second, just looks strange.

Is there a vid of this DDD infinite on wolf at the edge or any proof? Seems like this is extremely difficult to time and it seems doubtful to be grabbed 20 times in a row. God a campy pivot grabbing DDD was a bad enough matchup for wolf, this might make it totally impossible.

JST · Nov 21, 2008

CBK said:
What Infinite? Please stop calling it that.

Lemme break it down for you.

D3 has 3 different chaingrab sorta dealies on Wolf.

1: Regular CG.

2: A new CG which allows D3 to CG Wolf the same way he does Bowser.

3: APPARENTLY, if D3's spacing at the edge is at the correct point, D3 can dthrow Wolf INDEFINITELY. However, I have personally never seen such a thing happen between a Wolf and a D3 before.

It is similar to what happens here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqUmbuXZ7Jk

castorpollux · Nov 22, 2008

JST said:
Lemme break it down for you.

D3 has 3 different chaingrab sorta dealies on Wolf.

1: Regular CG.

2: A new CG which allows D3 to CG Wolf the same way he does Bowser.

3: APPARENTLY, if D3's spacing at the edge is at the correct point, D3 can dthrow Wolf INDEFINITELY. However, I have personally never seen such a thing happen between a Wolf and a D3 before.

It is similar to what happens here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqUmbuXZ7Jk

yep all three work on wolf. Ｉtested it out myself

~ Gheb ~ · Nov 22, 2008

Fugu15 said:
Don't argue with gheb.

Couldnt have it said better mzself =P

Rythe · Nov 24, 2008

Really helpful thread, and it's so well organized, too!

But even with the match-up discussion on Snake, I can't beat a good Snake player. That f-tilt has so much power and range and speed...@_@

I can't stop the grenades, either. I don't know how to counter them.

And with Snake's d-throw, I always end up getting hit again after it. If I use a get up attack, he shields and f-tilts me. If I roll away from Snake, he grabs me again. If I roll behind, f-tilt. Obviously the best strategy is to not get grabbed, but how often does that happen?

I'm getting used to dodging C4, so that's a plus.

So...any ideas? Snake is my worst matchup.

Ishiey · Nov 24, 2008

Snake can be a pain. I just blastercamp and try to somehow get him offstage. Once he uses his cypher, just spam bairs like holy**** or spike him. Techchase dthrow isn't fun. You can try to shine a lot, it works well enough from my experience.

koikaze · Nov 25, 2008

Fugu15 said:
Don't argue with gheb

Oh yeah, don't argue with the guy who says that Snake has the advantage in the Snake V. Meta Knight match up @.@

JST said:
2: A new CG which allows D3 to CG Wolf the same way he does Bowser.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqUmbuXZ7Jk

Why would the Dedede do anything but infinite the Bowser?

~ Gheb ~ · Nov 26, 2008

Rythe said:
But even with the match-up discussion on Snake, I can't beat a good Snake player. That f-tilt has so much power and range and speed...@_@

Stay away from it's range

I can't stop the grenades, either. I don't know how to counter them.

Wolf has plenty of tools to deal with them. Pick them up, Shine them or blow them up with Blaster. Overall Wolf outcamps Snake on how distance

And with Snake's d-throw, I always end up getting hit again after it. If I use a get up attack, he shields and f-tilts me. If I roll away from Snake, he grabs me again. If I roll behind, f-tilt. Obviously the best strategy is to not get grabbed, but how often does that happen?

There's nothing you can do except not getting grabbed. Just stay away far enough. Fully spaced bairs will never get shieldgrabbed.

So...any ideas? Snake is my worst matchup.

Play gay. Hit + run with Blaster. He cant Mortar Slide you if you fire your gun a lot. Use dthrow near the ledge if he's at 80%+. He'll be in a very bad position where you can try to spike him.

I agree that Snake is a though opponent on low levels. On higher levels however, this match-up becomes more and more even. You just have to learn the match-up like every other.

koikaze said:
Oh yeah, don't argue with the guy who says that Snake has the advantage in the Snake V. Meta Knight match up @.@

You kno how many people agree on that? Most people who thinks otherwise aren't even notable players.

Rythe · Nov 26, 2008

Okay, so I finally got to play another Snake today. Here are some of the strategies that I've considered after playing him.

Snake's f-tilt can be punished with an f-smash. I did it with Wolf a couple of times. I don't know if it can be powershielded or not.

Grenades aren't too bad, but sometimes I pull out my blaster when they're right on me and they explode in my face. My fault for not watching. <_< The reflector worked wonders against them.

With the down throw, I found that it's a bad idea to get up right where you are unless you're 100% sure you can hit Snake when getting up. When rolling away from Snake, he'll try to grab you again. Seems like a good idea to roll again if you go this route. When rolling behind Snake, it's the f-tilt, so shield and punish with f-smash. And of course, it's best to mix these up to avoid being predictable.

And yes, blaster spam helped a lot and stopped the mortar slide. I don't think I ever saw it when we were both on the ground.

Thanks for the tips, Ish...Gheb. Feel free to criticize mine.

And Gheb, make that number 25. ^_~

JST · Nov 28, 2008

koikaze said:
Why would the Dedede do anything but infinite the Bowser?

D3 can't actually infinite Bowser. The only thing he has is the small-step 'infinite.'

~ Gheb ~ · Dec 2, 2008

Am I the only one who disagrees with ROB/G&W > Wolf?

I think:

Wolf > G&W (no joke)
Wolf = ROB

Ishiey · Dec 2, 2008

I'm not so sure where I stand on those two, but I might be with you. GaW's ridiculously light weight is a huge advantage for wolf, and ROB is just a fairly well balanced character (like wolf). Both matches are fairly close either way.

Actually, I think both ROB and GaW are moving down in the tier list, doesn't seem like they're doing as great as they once were.

JCav · Dec 2, 2008

please dont change the g&w matchup, my friend thinks its SUCH a disadvantage for g&w that i want to physically hit him and then i get hit by an upsmash and die at 80

ArcPoint · Dec 2, 2008

I gave up assigning numbers to matchups.

~ Gheb ~ · Dec 3, 2008

^I know. I only do it for the OP. In my head and all my matches Wolf already has the advantage over G&W.

@Jimbo

wut?

-Mars- · Dec 3, 2008

Gheb_01 said:
Am I the only one who disagrees with ROB/G&W > Wolf?

I think:

Wolf > G&W (no joke)
Wolf = ROB

Someone's wrong here. The ROB and G&W boards both have it listed at 60:40 their favor.

castorpollux · Dec 3, 2008

marsulas said:
Someone's wrong here. The ROB and G&W boards both have it listed at 60:40 their favor.

It's something called bias

~ Gheb ~ · Dec 3, 2008

If you look at other characters boards, Wolf has only disadvantages and neutrals. lol
Except for bottom tiers.

castorpollux · Dec 3, 2008

Gheb_01 said:
If you look at other characters boards, Wolf has only disadvantages and neutrals. lol
Except for bottom tiers.

hahaha yep. as i said before... bias!

JCav · Dec 3, 2008

ok g&w>wolf because

power of course
g&w recovers, he gets back on the stage. wolf recovers, he SHOULD get gimped by a faire
power
bucket makes you weary of using blaster, your tool for spacing.
u tilt can get you to a solid 30% and followup with nair

and g&w up smash can kill at 80%

:'(

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